C O M M I S S I O N O F I N Q U IR Y I N TO S TAT E C A P T U R E H E L D AT PA R K TO W N , J O H A N N E S B U R G 10 18 FEBRUARY 2020 D AY 2 1 4 20 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 PROCEEDINGS RESU ME ON 18 FEBRUARY 2020 C H A I R P E R S O N : G o o d m o r n i n g M s H o f m e y r, g o o d m o r n i n g e v e r y b o d y. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : G o o d m o r n i n g C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s a r e w e r e a d y ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W e a r e i n d e e d . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Hm. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 10 C a n I j u s t c o n f ir m t h a t M r X c a n h e a r u s c le a r ly ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s I c a n . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u . C H A I R P E R S O N : M r X t h e o a t h y o u t o o k y e s t e r d a y c o n t i n u e s t o a p p ly. Yo u u n d e r s t a n d t h a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s I d o . CHAIRPERSON: Okay thank you. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. Mr X i f y o u c o u l d p l e a s e h a v e i n fr o n t o f y o u y o u r a ff i d a v i t b u n d l e w h ic h is E x h i b i t D D 3 1 a n d if y o u t u r n to p a g e 7 i n t h a t a ffi d a v it ? 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m t h e r e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u . M r X w e f in is h e d y e s te r d a y a t th e p o i n t a t w h i c h y o u w e r e g o i n g t o t e ll u s w h a t y o u d i d w i th t h e f u n d s a ft e r th e y w e r e r e c e i v e d fr o m K l o m a c E n g i n e e r i n g . A n d y o u b e g in to d e s c r ib e t h a t in y o u r a ff id a v i t a t p a r a g r a p h 2 9 . W h a t I w o u ld l ik e t o d o fir s t is u n d e r s t a n d fr o m y o u h o w th e p a y m e n t o f th o s e f u n d s w o r k e d Page 2 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 g e n e r a l ly a n d t h e n w e w il l g o in t o t h e d e t a il o f e a c h a m o u n t th a t w a s p a i d a r is in g fr o m th e K l o m a c p a y m e n t . S o i f w e s ta r t g e n e r a l ly w h a t w a s th e g e n e r a l p r o c e s s t h a t w o u l d b e f o l lo w e d a f te r y o u r e c e iv e d t h e m o n e y i n s o fa r a s y o u w e r e e n g a g i n g w it h M r M a j o l a ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I w i ll c a ll h i m . CHAIRPERSON: m is s e d s o m e t h i n g . I a m s o r r y. I th i n k M s I n t e r p r e te r y o u m a y h a v e M s H o f m e y r s a i d s h e w a n ts t o k n o w fr o m h i m t h e g e n e r a l p r o c e s s t h a t h e w o u ld f o l lo w w h e n h e h a d r e c e iv e d m o n e y f r o m – o r w h e n th e m o n e y h a d c o m e i n to h i s a c c o u n t . 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H m . C H A I R P E R S O N : S o i t is t h e p r o c e s s i n g e n e r a l a n d t h e n l a t e r o n t h e y w i ll g o i n t o d e ta il s o f e a c h o n e . I t is th e p r o c e s s fo ll o w e d a f t e r h e h a d r e c e i v e d m o n e y b e f o r e m o n e y w o u l d b e p a i d o v e r to t h e a c c o u n t d e s i g n a t e d b y M r M a j o la . N o , n o , n o . M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m n o t s u r e i f m y r e s p o n s e w il l b e w h a t is r e q u i r e d o f m e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s g o a h e a d . M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : O k a y. I m m e d i a t e ly a f t e r t h e m o n e y is d e p o s it e d i n to m y a c c o u n t th a t w il l b e i n d ic a t e d in m y p h o n e . 20 N o t if y m e b a s i c a lly o n my p h o n e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d th e n w h a t w o u ld y o u d o ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h e n I w il l c a l l h i m t o in f o r m h i m t h a t t h e m o n e y h a s a l r e a d y b e e n d e p o s i t e d in t o m y a c c o u n t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d i s t h e h i m M r M a jo l a ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . Page 3 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d th e n w h a t w o u ld h a p p e n ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : A n d t h e n I w ill w a i t f o r f u r th e r i n s tr u c t io n fr o m h i m a s t o h o w s h o u ld I t h e n u s e t h e m o n e y o r w h a t s h o u l d I d o w i t h t h e m o n e y. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u . C h a ir is t h e r e … CHAIRPERSON: Please repeat your answer Mr Majola and then Ms I n t e r p r e te r y o u c a n j u s t l is te n c a r e fu ll y. M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : O k a y lik e I s a i d i n it i a ll y th e m o n e y w i ll b e d e p o s it e d in t o m y a c c o u n t . M y p h o n e w il l n o t i fy m e t h a t th e r e is m o n e y 10 d e p o s it e d i n t o m y a c c o u n t t h e n I w i ll c a ll h i m a n d t h e n w a i t f o r h is in s t r u c t i o n s a s t o w h a t s h o u l d I d o a f t e r t h e m o n e y h a s b e e n d e p o s i t e d in t o my a c c o u n t . C H A I R P E R S O N : D id y o u s a y e a r l i e r o n i f h e w o u l d t e l l y o u i f h e w o u l d be busy and then you would wait for him? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : O k a y. T h a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I f h e w a s b u s y w o u ld y o u p h o n e h i m a g a i n la t e r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o b e c a u s e h e is a lr e a d y a w a r e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h e n w o u l d h e c o m e b a c k t o y o u w h e n h e w a s 20 able to do so? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a n k y o u . I w o u l d li k e to th e n m o v e o v e r t o p a g e 8 t o l o o k a t w h a t s p e c i f ic a l ly h a p p e n e d t o t h e R 2 m il li o n … C H A I R P E R S O N : M a y b e M s H o f m e y r. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A p o lo g i e s C h a ir. Page 4 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 C H A I R P E R S O N : J u s t t o c o m p l e t e t h e p r o c e s s . W h a t w o u ld h e u s u a l ly say when he did get a chance to come back to you? Would he say he w o u ld b e c o m i n g t o t h e o ff ic e s o t h a t a n i n v o ic e – o r w o u ld h e t e l l y o u t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r w h e r e t o p a y th e m o n e y in t o o r w o u l d h e c o m e b a c k to y o u a n d s a y s o m e t h i n g e ls e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r p r e t e r ) : B o th . I t h a p p e n e d b o t h o f t h e s c e n a r i o s that you have just put him. C H A I R P E R S O N : W o u ld h e s o m e t i m e s c o m e – w o u l d h e s o m e t i m e s s a y h e w a s g o i n g to s e e y o u a n d th e n h e w o u l d c o m e a n d s e e y o u a n d 10 s o m e t i m e s h e w o u ld ju s t c a ll y o u a n d g iv e y o u t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r pr e t e r ) : I – I c a n n o t h e a r h i m p r o p e r l y C h a ir b e c a u s e h e is s p e a k i n g … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s p le a s e r a i s e y o u r v o i c e M r X . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : O k a y. I t w o u ld h a p p e n t h a t h e w o u l d c o m e t o m y o ff ic e a n d g i v e m e t h e a c c o u n t – o r d r o p o ff t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r s o r te l e p h o n ic a l ly h e w il l g i v e m e t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r s . S o r r y. O h th e a c c o u n t n u m b e r w i ll b e b r o u g h t to m y o ff ic e w r i t te n . J a . C H A I R P E R S O N : O h h e w o u ld n o t te ll y o u t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r o v e r th e phone? 20 M R X ( t h r o u g h i n t e r pr e t e r ) : O k a y I d o n o t r e m e m b e r h i m d o i n g it – t e ll i n g m e t h a t . C H A I R P E R S O N : S o a s f a r a s y o u c a n r e c a l l a ll t h e ti m e h e b r o u g h t t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r t o y o u a n d i t w o u l d b e w r i t t e n in a p i e c e o f p a p e r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . CHAIRPERSON: O k a y a n d th e n a f t e r t h a t h a s h a p p e n e d – h a d Page 5 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 h a p p e n e d w h a t w o u l d y o u t h e n d o o r w h a t w o u ld y o u r o ffic e d o ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r pr e t e r ) : I w o u l d t h e n g iv e o u t a n i n s tr u c t io n t h a t t h e m o n e y b e d e p o s i te d o n t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r t h a t is r e f l e c te d o n t h e p i e c e o f p a p e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : W o u l d y o u g i v e t h a t in s t r u c ti o n t o y o u r s e c r e ta r y ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : Th a t is c o r r e c t s h e is t h e o n e w h o i s a b l e to do that. C H A I R P E R S O N : W o u l d th a t b e – w o u ld i t b e h e r a ll t h e ti m e o r d i d y o u s o m e t i m e s g iv e th e i n s tr u c t io n t o s o m e b o d y e l s e ? 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : I w o u l d g iv e th is i n s tr u c t io n to m y – it is two of them. I t is m y d a u g h t e r a n d m y s e c r e t a r y s o I w il l g iv e th e in s t r u c t i o n t o t h e t w o o f t h e m . C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u w o u l d g i v e t h e i n s tr u c ti o n to a n y o n e o f t h e m , i s t h a t r ig h t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : C o r r e c t . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . W a s y o u r d a u g h te r w o r k i n g i n y o u r o ff ic e ? MR X (through interpreter): S h e d o e s w o r k s o m e ti m e s s h e w ill b e t h e r e i n th e o ff ic e , s o m e ti m e s n o t. B u t s h e d o e s h a v e th e a u t h o r i ty – I a m n o t s u r e th e r ig h t t o w o r k i n th e o ffic e . 20 CHAIRPERSON: Ja. How – how – do you know how long it would take n o r m a l ly f o r t h e – f o r y o u r s e c r e t a r y o r y o u r d a u g h t e r t o p a y th e m o n e y in t o t h e a c c o u n t d e s i g n a t e d b y M r M a j o l a a f t e r y o u h a d g iv e n t h e in s t r u c t i o n s o r a f t e r M r M a j o l a h a d d r o p p e d th e i n fo r m a ti o n a b o u t t h e account? I N T E R P R E T E R : H o w l o n g C h a ir, is i t h o w lo n g ? Page 6 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 CHAIRPERSON: Ja. M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r p r e t e r ) : I m m e d i a t e ly a f te r I h a v e i n s tr u c t e d t h e m o r h e r. CHAIRPERSON: I s Mr X a s k i n g f o r c o n f ir m a ti o n w h e th e r w e w a n t t o k n o w t h e ti m e b e tw e e n h e h a d – a f t e r h e h a d g iv e n i n s tr u c ti o n s to th e ti m e o f p a y m e n t o r is h e c o n fir m i n g t h a t th e p a y m e n t w o u l d b e i m m e d i a t e a f te r h e h a d g iv e n i n s tr u c ti o n s ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : O h I w a s a s k in g fo r c l a r i t y. CHAIRPERSON: 10 Ye s . I a m – t h e q u e s t i o n w a s , fr o m th e t i m e w h e n y o u g a v e – y o u w o u ld g iv e i n s tr u c t io n s t o y o u r s e c r e t a r y o r y o u r d a u g h t e r t o p a y t h e m o n e y to t h e t i m e w h e n y o u r s e c r e t a r y o r y o u r d a u g h t e r p a i d t h e m o n e y, h o w m u c h t i m e w o u ld t h a t ta k e ? W o u l d i t b e a d a y, w o u ld it b e t w o d a y, w o u ld it b e a w e e k ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r p r e t e r ) : It w o u l d n o t b e m o r e t h a n a d a y o r t w o d a y s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h e p r o b l e m w o u l d b e t h e c h a l le n g e s o m e t i m e s w o u l d b e t h e n e tw o r k t h a t w ill a ff e c t t h a t . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y t h a n k y o u . M s H o f m e y r. 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a n k y o u . A n d – a n d a c t u a ll y ju s t o n e fu r t h e r q u e s t io n t o c o n c l u d e t h e g e n e r a l p r o c e d u r e . We have spoken about tr a n s fe r s to b a n k a c c o u n ts b u t d id M r M a j o l a e v e r a s k f o r m o n e y t o b e g iv e n to h i m i n c a s h ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : He would sometimes request me that I g iv e h i m c a s h b u t I w il l b e li m i t e d b y th e l i mi t – m y b a n k l i m i t b e c a u s e Page 7 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 m y b a n k w i ll d e c li n e t o g i v e m e t h e m o n e y t h a t h e is r e q u e s t i n g . So b e c a u s e o f t h e b a n k l i m it I w i ll b e u n a b l e t o d o s o . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h e n h e d id r e q u e s t c a s h h o w d i d t h a t happen? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : T h o u g h t h i s h a p p e n e d a l o n g ti m e b u t i f I r e m e m b e r v e r y w e l l is t h a t h e w o u l d g iv e m e a c a ll a n d a s k m e a b o u t m y w h e r e a b o u t s t o m e e t m e a n d th e n h e w o u l d c o m e a n d r e q u e s t m e t h a t I w i th d r a w m o n e y f o r h i m i n c a s h t h a t is . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 10 Thank you. I w o u ld t h e n l ik e t o g o t o t h e s p e c i f ic tr a n s a c ti o n s r e l a te d to t h e R 2 3 9 4 0 0 0 . 0 0 t h a t w a s r e c e iv e d fr o m K l o m a c E n g i n e e r i n g o n th e 2 6 J a n u a r y. A n d f o r th is p u r p o s e i f y o u c a n t u r n t o p a g e 8 o f y o u r a ffi d a v i t i n D D 3 1 Mr X . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d p a r a g r a p h 3 1 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I s e e i t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o a t p a r a g r a p h 3 1 .1 y o u – le t m e j u s t r e a d t h e in tr o d u c t i o n . Yo u s a y t h e r e : “ T h e a m o u n t o f R 2 3 4 9 0 0 0 . 0 0 s a v e f o r t h e VAT portion.” 20 CHAIRPERSON: 394? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o r r y. CHAIRPERSON: R2 394 000.00. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o r r y I m ig h t h a v e s a i d th a t i n c o r r e c t ly. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A p o lo g i e s . R 3 9 4 0 0 0 . 0 0 C h a ir th a n k y o u . Page 8 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 “ S a v e fo r th e VAT p o r ti o n w a s p a i d o u t i n t h e f o ll o w i n g tr a n c h e s a s p e r M r M a j o l a ’s i n s tr u c t io n s . T h e f ir s t a m o u n t t h e r e is R 1 5 0 0 0 0 . 0 0 w a s p a i d to S a f e z a K o h n k e E n g i n e e r i n g P T Y L i m i te d o n t h e 2 February 2015.” Do you see that? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s I s e e t h a t. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I d o n o t s u g g e s t t h a t w e n e e d to g o e v e r y ti m e t o t h e b a n k s t a te m e n t C h a ir b u t a l l o f th e b a n k s ta t e m e n ts a r e 10 a tt a c h e d . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Fo r e a c h o f th e s e t r a n s a c ti o n s . CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : B u t I w o u ld l ik e M r X t o c l a r i fy fo r u s is , d i d y o u k n o w w h a t o r w h o S a f e z a K o h n k e E n g i n e e r in g w a s ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o I d o n o t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : B u t c a n y o u c o n f ir m t h e a m o u n t o f R 1 5 0 0 0 0 . 0 0 w a s p a i d t o S a f e z a K o h n k e ’s a c c o u n t o n th e 2 F e b r u a r y 2 0 1 5 ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t – t h a t i s c o r r e c t . C o n fi r m e d . 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d – a n d c a n y o u c o n f ir m w h e t h e r th a t w a s o n M r M a j o l a ’s i n s tr u c t io n ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s I c o n fir m . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : D id – d i d I s i b o n e l o e v e r d o a n y w o r k w i t h o r r e c e i v e s e r v ic e s fr o m S a f e z a K o h n k e E n g i n e e r in g ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . Page 9 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d th e n i f w e g o t o th e s e c o n d p a y m e n t th a t a p p e a r s fr o m y o u r a ff id a v i t t o h a v e b e e n p a i d t h e n e x t d a y. T h a t w a s a n a m o u n t o f R 8 5 0 0 0 0 . 0 0 w h ic h y o u s a y w a s p a i d o n t h e 3 F e b r u a r y 2 0 1 5 . W a s t h a t a g a in in a c c o r d a n c e w i t h M r M a jo l a ’s i n s tr u c ti o n ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I c o n fir m . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h e n if w e g o t o p a r a g r a p h 3 1 .3 . Mr X w h a t y o u d e s c r i b e th e r e i n t h e a ffi d a v it i s t h a t o n th e 11 F e b r u a r y s o t h a t i s j u s t m o r e t h a n a w e e k la t e r a f t e r t h e s e c o n d tr a n c h e w a s p a i d . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s I s e e t h a t. 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Yo u e x p l a in th a t t h e r e w a s a tr a n s f e r o f th a t R 1 m il li o n o n t h e 11 Fe b r u a r y to a M o n e y M a r k e t a c c o u n t o f Is ib o n e l o a n d t h e n y o u l a t e r d e s c r ib e h o w t h a t m o n e y c a m e b a c k i n t o t h e I s i b o n e l o a c c o u n t a n d w a s p a id o u t. C a n y o u j u s t d e s c r i b e f o r u s h o w th a t w o u l d occur? C H A I R P E R S O N : O n e – o n e s e c o n d . M s I n te r p r e t e r. I N T E R P R E T E R : Ye s S ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u m u s t f e e l f r e e to s t o p h i m . I N T E R P R E T E R : Ye s o k a y. C H A I R P E R S O N : S o t h a t y o u c a n i n te r p r e t b e c a u s e o t h e r w is e h e m ig h t 20 t e ll a l o n g s t o r y a n d w h e n y o u i n t e r p r e t y o u c a n n o t r e m e m b e r everything. I N T E R P R E T E R : Th a n k y o u C h a ir I w i ll … C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y m a y b e l e t u s s ta r t a fr e s h . M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : M y b u s i n e s s h a s a n o t h e r a c c o u n t w h ic h is a M o n e y M a r k e t a c c o u n t. I f th e r e i s m o n e y t o b e d e p o s i te d i n t o t h e Page 10 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t a n d i t n o t o u r m o n e y i t is f r o m t h e s u p p li e r s w e w ill t h e n d e p o s i t it t o t h e M o n e y M a r k e t. W o u l d I p l e a s e – m a y I r e p e a t ? C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s p le a s e . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : O k a y. I N T E R P R E T E R : I a m n o t s u r e if I a m g e t ti n g h i m r i g h t . M a y I t r y a n d t h e n C h a i r y o u w o u ld c o r r e c t m e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s j a , n o . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : O k a y. We have business account and t h e n w e a l s o h a v e a M o n e y M a r k e t a c c o u n t. I n t h e b u s in e s s a c c o u n t I 10 w o u ld li k e t o p l a c e it o n r e c o r d th a t w e a l s o h a v e o u r o w n i n c o m e t h a t g o e s in t o t h e b u s in e s s a c c o u n t. T h e n t h e r e w ill b e m o n ie s fr o m – f o r t h e s u p p li e r s t h a t w i ll a ls o c o m e i n t o t h e b u s in e s s a c c o u n t . So what w e w o u l d d o i s i n o r d e r t o a v o i d n o t u s i n g t h e m o n e y w h ic h is n o t o u r s b u t t h e s u p p l i e r s w e w il l th e n m o v e it t o t h e s id e m e a n i n g t o t h e M o n e y Market account. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . INTERPRETER: I think he needs – sorry may I correct? C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s . D o e x p la in . M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : F o r a n e x a m p l e t h e R 2 m il li o n m o n e y th a t 20 w a s d e p o s it – R 2 .3 m i l li o n w h ic h w a s d e p o s it e d i n t o m y b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t if I h a v e n o t r e m o v e d i t c o m p l e t e l y fr o m t h e b u s in e s s a c c o u n t I w i ll t h e n tr a n s f e r it in t o th e M o n e y a c c o u n t s o t h a t I c a n s e e m y o w n in c o m e c o m i n g i n t o m y b u s in e s s a c c o u n t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d th e n w h e n w o u ld y o u b r in g i t b a c k in t o your business account? Page 11 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 I N T E R P R E T E R : M e a n in g th e m o n e y t h a t h e m o v e d t o t h e s id e ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I n d e e d . INTERPRETER: Ja. W o u l d y o u p l e a s e r e p e a t a n d s p e a k a l it t le b i t lo u d e r. I w a s tr y i n g t o m a k e i t c l e a r w h a t I a m r e q u e s ti n g fr o m h i m . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. Ye s o k a y. M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r pr e t e r ) : I w o u l d w a i t f o r a n i n s tr u c t io n a g a i n t h a t I s h o u l d tr a n s fe r i t b a c k t o t h e b u s in e s s a c c o u n t s o t h a t o n c e a g a i n t o a v o i d m y in c o m e a s w e ll a s t h is m o n e y in t o th e s a m e a c c o u n t . S o I w il l w a i t f o r a n i n s tr u c ti o n t o ta k e i t b a c k in t o t h e b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t. 10 CHAIRPERSON: N o I th in k c h e c k – I t h i n k t h e i n s tr u c t i o n is fo r – i s w h e r e t o p a y t h a t m o n e y b u t p a y in g it i n t o t h e – h is b u s in e s s a c c o u n t i s ju s t f o r h is c o n v e n i e n c e f o r h is b u s in e s s p u r p o s e s . T h e i n s tr u c ti o n is w h e r e h e s h o u l d p a y t h e a m o u n t – th e m o n e y. Mr X d o y o u h e a r m e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . J a y o u a r e c o r r e c t. C H A I R P E R S O N : Th e i n s tr u c ti o n y o u a r e t a lk i n g a b o u t w o u l d t h a t b e a n in s t r u c t i o n t o t e ll y o u w h e r e to p a y th e s u p p li e r ’s m o n e y – i n t o w h ic h account? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Th e i n s tr u c t io n d o e s n o t r e l a te t o y o u b r i n g i n g y o u r – 20 t h e m o n e y f r o m t h e M o n e y M a r k e t a c c o u n t in t o y o u r b u s in e s s a c c o u n t , is t h a t r i g h t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r p r e t e r ) : I t is a c c o r d i n g t o m y o w n a c c o r d t o d e c i d e w h e r e I k e e p t h is m o n e y. F o r in s ta n c e i f I h a v e m o n e y w h ic h i s a b o u t t o c o m e i n t o t h e b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t I w i ll t h e n in s t r u c t th e m t o p u t t h is m o n e y a s id e o n t h e M o n e y a c c o u n t . T h e n w h e n ti m e c o m e s f o r m e Page 12 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 t o p a y t h i s m o n e y i n to t h e i n s tr u c t e d a c c o u n t s t h e n i t w o u ld b e my d e c is i o n o n c e a g a in t o m o v e i t b a c k t o t h e b u s in e s s a c c o u n t s o t h a t i t w o u ld b e c o n v e n i e n t fo r m e to b e a b l e t o p a y t h e m o n ie s in t o t h e s a i d accounts. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Thank you for that. And as you record at p a r a g r a p h 3 1 . 3 a n d t h e b a n k s t a t e m e n ts r e fl e c t i t a p p e a r s t h a t R 1 0 0 2 0 0 0 . 0 0 w a s tr a n s f e r r e d b a c k i n t o Is ib o n e l o ’s b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t o n t h e 9 M a r c h 2 0 1 5 a n d t h e n R 1 m il li o n w a s p a id o u t t o S a fe z a K o h n k e a g a i n o n th e s a m e d a t e , d o y o u c o n fir m t h a t? 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : O k a y s o r r y, s o r r y a b o u t t h a t . C H A I R P E R S O N : I t h i n k d o – d o in t e r p r e t. I N T E R P R E T E R : O k a y. M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I c o n fir m . CHAIRPERSON: T h e R 1 m i ll io n th a t w a s t r a n s f e r r e d o u t t o S a f e z a K o h n k e is p a r t o f th e R 1 0 0 2 0 0 0 .0 0 th a t y o u h a d t r a n s f e r r e d fr o m o r h a d b e e n tr a n s fe r r e d fr o m M o n e y M a r k e t i n to y o u r b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t , i s t h a t r ig h t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Thank you Mr X. I w o u l d t h e n li k e t o a t t h i s p o i n t d r a w y o u r a t te n ti o n to a n a ffi d a v i t o f Mr P a t o n fr o m K l o m a c E n g i n e e r i n g . C h a ir I in d ic a t e d y e s te r d a y t h a t w e h a d r e c e iv e d a s e r i e s o f f u r t h e r a ffi d a v i ts fr o m t h e o th e r e n t i ti e s in v o lv e d i n th is a r r a n g e m e n t . T h e y h a v e b e e n c o l l e c te d i n o n e f il e w h i c h w e p r o p o s e b e e n t e r e d i n t o t h e r e c o r d a s Ex h ib i t D D 2 8 . T h a t fi le c o m p r is e s t h e a ffi d a v i t o f M r Page 13 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 K h a n t o w h o m I m a d e r e f e r e n c e y e s t e r d a y. T h e a ff id a v i t o f Mr S h a n g a a n d t h e a ffi d a v it o f M r P a to n . S o i f I c o u ld r e q u e s t t h a t w e e n t e r th a t in t o t h e r e c o r d a n d t h e n a s k M r X to g e t t h a t f il e i n fr o n t o f h i m . CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I t s a y s o n ly M r K h a n ’s n a m e o n t h e s p i n e , b u t it a c t u a ll y c o m p r i s e s M r K h a n , M r S h a n g e a n d Mr P a t o n ’s a ffi d a v it s . C H A I R P E R S O N : W e l l t h a t is w h a t h a s m is le d m e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A h . I s e e . C H A I R P E R S O N : B e c a u s e I h a v e b e e n w o n d e r in g w h e r e … 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h e r e … C H A I R P E R S O N : Mr S h a n g e ’s a ffi d a v i t i s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O h s o r r y. Th a t i s a n e r r o r CHAIRPERSON: So … A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Si m p ly o n t h e s p i n e C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W e - w e w i ll c o r r e c t t h a t . C H A I R P E R S O N : W i ll t h a t b e c o r r e c t e d ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I n d e e d . C H A I R P E R S O N : J a . T h e f il e c o n t a i n i n g t h e a ff id a v i ts - a c tu a l ly s h o u l d 20 w e n o t h a v e Mr K h a n ’s a ff id a v i t a s - g iv e i t o n e e x h i b i t m a y b e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . CHAIRPERSON: Number 28A … A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H m . C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d t h e n M r S h a n g e ’s o n e … A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I n d e e d . Page 14 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 C H A I R P E R S O N : A d i ffe r e n t e x h ib i t n u m b e r. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : C h a ir, i f I … C H A I R P E R S O N : A r e t h e r e t w o o f - o f M r K h a n ’s o n e ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h e r e i s t w o o f M r K h a n ’s . O n e o f M r S h a n g e a n d o n e o f M r P a to n a n d m a y b e w h a t I c a n d o is … CHAIRPERSON: Hm. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W i th r e f e r e n c e t o t h e s ta r t in g p a g e o f e a c h o f them. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A s s is t w i t h t h e d i ff e r e n t e x h i b i t n u m b e r s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o i f I c o u l d p r o p o s e t h a t M r K h a n ’s a ff id a v i t a n d h is s u p p l e m e n ta r y b e e n t e r e d in t o th e e x h i b i t a s D D 2 8 A . CHAIRPERSON: Oh. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I s t h a t s u i t a b l e a n d t h e n I i n d ic a t e w h a t p a g e s it r u n s to . CHAIRPERSON: Does the supplement only have annexures or it …? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I t d o e s . C H A I R P E R S O N : It d o e s ? 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . CHAIRPERSON: Maybe let us do it as 28A and 28B. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : C e r t a i n l y. C H A I R P E R S O N : S o Mr N o ffe l K h a n ’s m a i n a ff id a v i t , w o u l d t h a t … A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I n d e e d . C H A I R P E R S O N : B e c o r r e c t w h ic h w a s d e p o s e d to … Page 15 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O n 4 D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 9 . CHAIRPERSON: O n 4 D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 9 a n d i ts a n n e x u r e s w il l b e a d m i t t e d a n d m a r k e d a s E X H I B I T D D 2 8 A a n d h is s u p p l e m e n ta r y a ffi d a v i t d e p o s e d t o … A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O n 1 2 D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 9 . CHAIRPERSON: O n 1 2 D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 9 a n d a n n e x u r e s t o i t w i ll b e admitted and marked as EXHIBIT 28 - DD28B. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W e a r e i n d e b t e d C h a ir a n d t h e n if w e c a n th e n a ls o p r o c e e d to M r S h a n g e ’s a ff id a v i t . 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a t c o m m e n c e s a t p a g i n a t e d p a g e 1 - 2 - 7 … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d I p r o p o s e t h a t b e e n te r e d i n t o t h e r e c o r d a s E X H I B I T D D 2 8 C a n d t h a t is t h e a ff id a v i t d e p o s e d t o b y M r S h a n g e o n 1 6 J a n u a r y 2 0 2 0 a n d i ts a n n e x u r e s . CHAIRPERSON: Ye s . M r K o l a n i S h a n g e ’s a ffi d a v i t d e p o s e d t o o n 1 6 J a n u a r y 2 0 2 0 a n d a n n e x u r e s t o i t w i ll b e a d m i tt e d a n d m a r k e d a s EXHIBIT DD28C. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 20 1-50 - 1-5-0. A n d t h e n f i n a ll y i n t h is f il e i f w e tu r n t o p a g e That Mr Colin Gordon Paton. is the fi r s t page of a ffi d a v i t of T h a t w a s d e p o s e d t o o n 11 N o v e m b e r 2 0 1 9 and I propose that it and its annexures be entered into the record as EXHIBIT DD28D. C H A I R P E R S O N : Th e a ff i d a v i t o f Mr C o l in G o r d o n P a t o n a n d a n n e x u r e s w i ll - w i ll b e a d m it t e d a n d m a r k e d a s E X H I B I T D D 2 8 D . Page 16 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : M r X , w h a t I w o u l d li k e to d r a w y o u r a t te n ti o n t o i n t h e a ff id a v i t o f Mr P a t o n is t h e f o l l o w i n g . Mr P a t o n e x p la i n s a t p a g e 1 - 5 - 0 o f E X H I B I T D D 2 8 D a t p a r a g r a p h 1 t h a t h e is t h e M a n a g i n g D ir e c t o r o f K l o m a c E n g in e e r i n g . D o y o u s e e t h a t ? INTERPRETER: Is it paragraph 150? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I t is p a g e 1 5 0 p a r a g r a p h 1 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I s e e i t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H a v e y o u e v e r m e t … ? CHAIRPERSON: Hm. 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A p o lo g i e s . CHAIRPERSON: H e s a y s h e is t h e M a n a g i n g D ir e c t o r o f K l o m a c E n g i n e e r i n g ( P t y ) L td . J u s t tr a n s l a te t h a t M s I n t e r p r e t e r. I N T E R P R E T E R : I s i t p o s s i b l e th a t I c a n h a v e … ? CHAIRPERSON: Do you not have …? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O h . A p o l o g i e s . I t h o u g h t y o u h a d b e e n g iv e n the … C H A I R P E R S O N : O h . I th o u g h t y o u … A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h e f u l l s e t . INTERPRETER: No. 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : I t h o u g h t y o u h a v e - y o u m u s t b e g iv e n t h a t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Of course. S o r r y. I t h in k it w a s th e r e y e s t e r d a y. W e m i g h t h a v e … CHAIRPERSON: Oh. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ti d i e d i t a w a y. I f w e c a n b e g le a v e j u s t to a p p r o a c h t h e i n te r p r e t e r … Page 17 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Fo r t h a t p u r p o s e . CHAIRPERSON: Hm. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. I N T E R P R E T E R : Th a n k y o u C h a ir. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A p o lo g i e s M s K h u m a lo . CHAIRPERSON: A n d g o to p a g e 1 5 0 t o w a r d s t h e e n d . R ig h t a t th e e n d a c tu a lly. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Yo u w il l n e e d p a g e 1 - 5 - 0 . I t h i n k i t i s a f te r t h e 10 la s t d i v i d e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : It is th e a ffi d a v i t o f M r C o l in G o r d o n P a t o n . INTERPRETER: I have found it. CHAIRPERSON: Yo u f o u n d i t . Ja. O k a y. What Ms Hofmeyr sought M r X to c o n fir m is w h a t is i n p a r a g r a p h 1 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I s e e t h a t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H a v e y o u e v e r m e t M r P a t o n ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . I h a v e n e v e r. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H a v e y o u e v e r m e t a n y o n e a s s o c i a te d w i t h Klomac Engineering? 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I k n o w n o o n e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d th e n I w o u l d l ik e t o d r a w y o u r a t te n ti o n t o p a g e 1 - 6 - 0 - 1 6 0 o f M r P a to n ’s a ffi d a v i t - E X H I B I T D D 2 8 D . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : ( A n s w e r n o t in t e r p r e t e d ) . C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d in t h e m e a n ti m e y o u c o n f ir m t h a t n o t o n ly h a v e y o u n o t m e t M r P a to n , b u t a ls o y o u h a v e n e v e r s p o k e n to h i m Page 18 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 t e l e p h o n ic a l ly ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I - I h a v e n e v e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u h a v e - y o u h a v e h a d n o c o m m u n ic a ti o n w i th h i m a t a ll ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. T h a n k y o u . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O n t h a t p a g e 1 6 0 M r X w h a t Mr P a t o n d o e s a t p a r a g r a p h 3 9 is h e s u m m a r is e s w h a t h is u n d e r s ta n d i n g w a s o f Is ib o n e l o ’s r o l e . J u s t t o c l a r i f y M s K h u m a lo . It - i t is p a r a g r a p h 3 9 o n 10 page 160. INTERPRETER: 39, page 160. Ja. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . D o y o u s e e t h a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I w o u ld l ik e t o r e a d i n to t h e r e c o r d w h a t M r P a t o n s a y s t h e r e , b e c a u s e w h a t h e h a s d o n e u p u n t il t h is p o i n t i n h is a ffi d a v i t C h a ir a n d M r X is . H e h a s e x p la i n e d t h e v a r io u s tr a n s a c ti o n s i n w h i c h K l o m a c w a s i n v o lv e d a n d w h a t M r P a to n i n d i c a t e s a t p a r a g r a p h 3 9 o n t h a t p a g e is t h e f o l lo w i n g . H e s a y s : “ To t h e b e s t o f m y k n o w l e d g e a n d h a v in g w o r k e d in 20 t h e in d u s tr y i t d o e s tr a n s p ir e t h a t o n o c c a s io n d u r i n g t h e c o u r s e o f th e c o n tr a c t th e r e m a y b e c o n tr a c t i n s tr u c ti o n s w h ic h r e q u ir e c o n tr a c t b a s e d c h a r g e s f o r w h ic h n o p r o v is io n h a s b e e n m a d e i n t h e B il l o f Q u a n ti t ie s . Is ib o n e lo t o t h e b e s t o f K l o m a c ’s k n o w le d g e i s a n o m i n a t e d s u b c o n tr a c to r Page 19 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 o f t h e c l ie n t … ” N o w t h a t i s a r e f e r e n c e t o M h l a th u z e Wa t e r. “ … w h ic h c a r r i e d o u t c o n tr a c t w o r k s f o r th e c li e n t . ” A g a i n a r e f e r e n c e t o M h l a th u z e Wa t e r. INTERPRETER: May I also read it so that I can understand it before I in t e r p r e t it C h a ir ? C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , r e a d i t . J a . Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w h a t I w o u l d lik e to a s k M r X i s w h e th e r it is c o r r e c t t h a t I s i b o n e l o w a s a p p o in t e d a s a s u b c o n tr a c t o r t o M h la t h u z e 10 a t a n y p o i n t a f te r 2 0 1 5 ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i n t e r p r e t e r ) : I t a k e y o u b a c k . I f I r e m e m b e r w e ll . C a n I j u s t ta k e y o u b a c k ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t is fi n e . J a . M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r pr e t e r ) : O k a y. If I t a k e y o u b a c k . Remember I d i d m e n ti o n t h a t I w a s s u p p o s e d t o w o r k a s a s u b c o n tr a c t o r f o r M h la t h u z e , b u t I w a i t e d fo r t h e d o c u m e n ts a n d t h o s e d o c u m e n ts I h a v e n e v e r r e c e iv e d t h e m o r s ig n e d t h e m . S o th e a n s w e r w o u l d b e , n o . I have never signed the documents. 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . I t h in k - I t h in k h e s a i d h e w a s w a i t in g fo r t h o s e d o c u m e n ts in c l u d e d i n a n a p p o i n t m e n t l e tt e r. Is t h a t w h a t y o u s a i d ? I N T E R P R E T E R : O h . M y - my a p o lo g ie s - m y a p o l o g i e s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . CHAIRPERSON: Hm. Page 20 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : And d id you ever do any work as a s u b c o n tr a c t o r t o M h l a th u z e fr o m 2 0 1 5 ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Thank you. C h a i r, ju s t to m a k e a n o t e . The w h o le m a n n e r i n w h i c h B il ls o f Q u a n t i ti e s a n d - o o h , I s e e w e h a v e e x c e e d e d o u r ti m e . C H A I R P E R S O N : N o . W e h a v e n o t a c t u a ll y. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O h . C H A I R P E R S O N : W e s t a r te d e a r ly. 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O h w e - w e s t a r t e d e a r ly. I a m - I a m s o r t o f a n hour out. So we do … CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W e c a n a c t u a ll y p r o g r e s s a b i t . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I ju s t w a n t e d to p u t a n o t e i n h e r e . Th e - t h e fir s t p a r t o f t h e p a r a g r a p h th a t w e r e a d i n to t h e r e c o r d t h e r e o f M r P a t o n i s a b o u t h o w o n t h e s i d e o f t h e c o n tr a c to r s to M h l a th u z e t h e B il ls o f Q u a n t i ti e s w o u l d b e a d j u s te d f o r t h e s e p a y m e n t s , b u t I - I a m ju s t in d ic a t i n g . 20 I a m n o t tr a v e r s i n g th a t w i th M r X , b e c a u s e M r X ’s in v o lv e m e n t d o e s n o t … C H A I R P E R S O N : R e q u ir e th a t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S e e t h a t s i d e … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . J a . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O f t h e a r r a n g e m e n t . C H A I R P E R S O N : J a . N o . T h a t is fi n e . Page 21 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I f y o u w il l j u s t e x p l a i n th a t . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I u n d e r s t a n d . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u . I w o u ld t h e n l ik e to r e tu r n t o y o u r a ffi d a v i t M r X a n d th a t is in E X H I B I T D D 3 1 a t p a g e 9 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I a m o n p a g e 9 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : N o w w h a t I a m g o i n g t o d o M r X is t a k e y o u t h r o u g h a s e r i e s o f f u r t h e r in v o ic e s t h a t w e r e g e n e r a te d b y I s i b o n e l o a n d a s I u n d e r s t a n d y o u r a ff id a v i t y o u r e c e iv e d in s t r u c t i o n s th e n t o - t o p a y o u t t h e m o n ie s r e c e iv e d a n d I a m g o in g t o ta k e y o u t o e a c h o n e 10 a n d a s k y o u t o c o n f ir m t h a t t h a t is w h a t h a p p e n e d a n d w h e r e n e c e s s a r y I w il l a s k y o u a f e w f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s a b o u t a p a r ti c u la r i n v o ic e o r a p a r t ic u l a r p a y m e n t. M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O k a y. S o l e t u s s t a r t a t p a r a g r a p h 3 3 o n p a g e 9. M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I a m o n p a r a g r a p h 3 3 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : N o w a t p a r a g r a p h 3 3 y o u s ta r t t o d e s c r ib e a n in v o ic e th a t Is ib o n e l o i s s u e d t o A fr o s tr u c t u r e s a n d I w o u l d l ik e to t a k e y o u t o th a t i n v o i c e . Yo u w i ll f in d i t a t p a g e 4 6 - 4 - 6 . 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I s e e t h a t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h a t i s t h e d a te o f th a t i n v o i c e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : 0 8 / 0 4 / 2 0 1 5 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u a n d i s t h a t a n i n v o ic e o f w h ic h y o u are aware? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I a m a w a r e o f i t . Page 22 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : And the c u s to m e r there is in d ic a te d as A fr o s tr u c t u r e s . Is th a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H a v e y o u e v e r h a d a n y d e a l i n g s , te le p h o n ic , in p e r s o n o r o t h e r w i s e w i t h a n y o n e fr o m A f r o s tr u c t u r e s ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th e r e is a d e s c r i p ti o n o f w o r k s o n t h is i n v o i c e . It reads: “ R e n o v a ti o n o f o ff ic e s a n d c o n v e r s i o n o f g a r a g e s to o ffic e s . ” 10 A n d t h e n t h e r e is a n a m o u n t b i ll e d f o r t h a t o f R 7 5 0 1 2 1 , 8 8 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I d o s e e i t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h e r e d i d y o u g e t th a t d e s c r i p t i o n o f w o r k s fr o m ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : T h e in f o r m a t io n c o n t a in e d h e r e w a s b r o u g h t b y M r M a j o la . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : D i d I s i b o n e l o e v e r r e n o v a te o ff ic e s o r c o n v e r t g a r a g e s to o ffi c e s f o r A fr o s tr u c t u r e s ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d c a n w e t a k e i t t h a t y o u r p r e v io u s e v i d e n c e a b o u t h o w th e s e i n v o ic e s w o u ld b e g e n e r a te d a n d t h e n t a k e n a w a y b y M r M a j o l a a p p l i e s to t h is in v o ic e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h e n y o u r e c e i v e d fu n d s r e l a te d t o t h is in v o ic e . Yo u s a y t h a t a t p a g e 1 0 o n p a r a g r a p h 3 5 o n 1 7 A p r i l 2 0 1 5 . I Page 23 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 w o u ld l ik e t o t a k e y o u t o t h a t b a n k s t a te m e n t a n d y o u w ill fi n d t h a t a t page 48 - 4-8. M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I a m - I a m o n m y b a n k s t a te m e n t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d y o u w il l s e e h i g h li g h te d t o w a r d s t h e b o t t o m of that page … M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I s a n a m o u n t o f R 8 7 2 2 3 4 , 7 4 r e c e iv e d - i t a p p e a r s - o n 1 7 A p r il fr o m A fr o s tr u c t u r e s . C a n y o u c o n f ir m t h a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I s e e i t . 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I w o u l d t h e n l ik e t o d e a l w i t h a n o t h e r s e t o f in v o ic e s , b e c a u s e t h e y h a p p e n a t th e s a m e t i m e a n d t h e n w e w i ll s p e a k a b o u t w h a t y o u d id w i t h th e m o n i e s a f t e r t h e y w e r e r e c e i v e d i n to Is ib o n e l o ’s b a n k a c c o u n t . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : U n d e r s to o d . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o if w e a r e n o w a t p a g e 1 0 o f y o u r a ffi d a v i t EXHIBIT DD31. I N T E R P R E T E R : I s i t - d i d y o u m e n ti o n t h e p a r a g r a p h ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : P a r a g r a p h 3 6 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I s e e i t . 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a t r e f e r s to a - a s e c o n d in v o ic e t h a t t h e - t h a t Is ib o n e l o is s u e d t o K lo m a c a n d y o u w i ll fi n d i t a t p a g e 5 0 - 5 - 0 . I N T E R P R E T E R : D id y o u s a y p a g e 5 0 ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 5 - 0 , y e s . D o y o u h a v e t h a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h a t i s t h e d a te o f th is i n v o ic e ? Page 24 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : 0 8 / 0 4 / 2 0 1 5 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Engineering for the And it a t te n ti o n is of again addressed M a r k Fr e e m a n . to Yo u r Klomac evidence p r e v i o u s ly w a s th a t y o u h a v e h a d n o d e a li n g s w i t h Kl o m a c E n g i n e e r i n g a n d t h a t y o u d o n o t k n o w w h o M r M a r k Fr e e m a n is . D o e s th a t a p p ly t o t h is in v o ic e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d th e d e s c r ip t io n o f w o r k s t h e r e i s : “ R e f u r b is h m e n t o f o ff ic e li f t . ” 10 Wa s I s i b o n e lo in v o lv e d i n d o i n g w o r k r e f u r b is h in g a n o ffi c e li f t f o r K l o m a c E n g i n e e r i n g a t a n y p o i n t? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d c a n w e t a k e i t t h a t y o u r p r e v io u s e v i d e n c e a p p li e s h e r e i n s o fa r a s th e d e s c r i p t i o n o f w o r k h a v i n g b e e n s u p p li e d b y Mr Majola? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d th e t o ta l o f t h a t i n v o i c e i n c l u d i n g VAT w a s R 8 6 6 6 8 0 ,6 7 . I s t h a t c o r r e c t? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I s e e i t . 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h e n j u s t t o ta k e y o u t o t h e b a n k s ta t e m e n t w h e r e t h e f u n d s p u r s u a n t to th a t i n v o ic e w e r e r e c e iv e d . Yo u w i ll fi n d that at page 52 - 5-2 - of EXHIBIT DD31. M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I a m o n p a g e 5 2 . I s e e p a g e 5 2 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d y o u w i ll s e e t h e h i g h l ig h t e d e n tr y o n t h a t p a g e i n d i c a t e s t h a t o n 2 0 A p r il 2 0 1 5 th e r e w a s a p a y m e n t r e c e iv e d fr o m Page 25 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 K l o m a c E n g i n e e r i n g in t h e a m o u n t o f R 8 6 6 6 8 0 ,6 7 . Is th a t c o r r e c t ? INTERPRETER: Is it 20 April 2015? CHAIRPERSON: O k a y. I think - I think you must just repeat the n u m b e r. T h e a m o u n t - 8 6 6 0 0 0 . Ye s . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I s e e t h e a m o u n t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d y o u c o n f ir m t h a t I s i b o n e l o r e c e i v e d t h o s e funds? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I w o u l d n o t li k e to t u r n t o w h a t w a s d o n e a f te r 10 t h o s e tw o a m o u n ts w e r e r e c e iv e d fr o m A f r o s tr u c t u r e s a n d K l o m a c a n d f o r t h a t p u r p o s e i f w e c o u l d g o b a c k t o y o u r a ffi d a v i t a t p a g e 11 , M r X . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I a m o n p a g e 11 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o a t p a r a g r a p h 3 9 a t t h e t o p o f p a g e 11 y o u r e c o r d i n y o u r a ffi d a v i t t h a t a n d I q u o t e : “ M r M a j o la i n s tr u c t e d m e t o p a y o u t t h e f u n d s r e c e i v e d f r o m K l o m a c a n d A f r o s tr u c tu r e s i n t h e f o ll o w i n g m a n n e r. ” Yo u i n d i c a t e t h a t o n th e 3 1 s t o f … C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. D o y o u w a n t t o … 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O h a p o lo g ie s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Tr a n s l a t e th a t p o r t io n ? J a . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h e f ir s t p a y m e n t y o u r e fl e c t t h e r e w a s o n 2 1 A p r il 2 0 1 5 a n d th a t w a s R 6 0 0 0 0 0 , 0 0 p a i d t o S i fe z a k o n k e . c o n fir m t h a t? Page 26 of 104 Do you 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : C o n fir m . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d c a n I a s k w h e t h e r t h e m e t h o d o f th e p r o c e s s p r e c e d in g th is p a y m e n t w a s th e s a m e a s t h e o n e t h a t y o u d e s c r ib e d g e n e r a ll y e a r l i e r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o M r M a j o l a a t s o m e p o i n t a f te r y o u a l e r t e d h i m t o th e fa c t t h a t th e fu n d s h a d b e e n r e c e i v e d to l d y o u w h e r e t o p a y o u t t h o s e f u n d s . Is th a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : N o w o n 2 1 A p r il 2 0 1 5 R 6 0 0 0 0 0 , 0 0 w a s p a i d t o S i fe z a k o n k e a n d y o u h a v e a lr e a d y g i v e n e v i d e n c e t h a t y o u h a d p r e v i o u s ly a m o u n ts t o S i f e z a k o n k e . Is t h a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A t p a r a g r a p h 3 9 . 2 y o u i n d i c a t e th a t t h e d a y la t e r o n 2 2 A p r i l 2 0 1 5 a n a m o u n t o f R 7 0 0 0 0 0 w a s p a i d t o Is i v u n o s a m i Tr a d in g . I s t h a t c o r r e c t? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : C o r r e c t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : N o w is Is iv u n o s a m i Tr a d i n g is a - is a n e w e n t i ty. H o w d id y o u g e t th e d e t a i ls o f i ts a c c o u n t? 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I t w a s b r o u g h t b y M r M a j o la . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : D i d y o u h a v e a n y d e a l in g s t e l e p h o n ic o r i n p e r s o n w i t h a n y p e r s o n fr o m Is i v u n o s a m i Tr a d i n g w h e n th is p a y m e n t w a s m a d e o r b e f o r e o r a f te r i t? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . W e h a v e n e v e r m e t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d d o y o u k n o w w h a t … Page 27 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 CHAIRPERSON: Yo u h a v e n e v e r m e t b u t d id y o u e v e r s p e a k to th e m , d i d y o u e v e r c o m m u n ic a te w i t h th e m i n a n y m a n n e r w h a ts o e v e r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : No. A n d d id I s i v u n o S a m i Tr a d i n g e v e r p r o v i d e a n y s e r v ic e s o r w o r k t o Is ib o n e l o ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : No. A n d t h e n a t p a r a g r a p h 4 0 M r X y o u b e g i n fo r t h e f ir s t ti m e t o d e a l w i th t h e c a s h w i t h d r a w a ls w h i c h I u n d e r s t a n d fr o m y o u r a ffi d a v i t w e r e a ls o d o n e o n t h e i n s tr u c ti o n o f M r M a j o l a , I w o u l d 10 lik e to t a k e y o u t o t h o s e n o w. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . W h a t y o u r e c o u n t a t p a r a g r a p h 4 0 is t h a t t h e r e w a s a n a m o u n t w i t h d r a w n f r o m I s i b o n e l o ’s a c c o u n t o n t h e 1 7 t h o f A p r i l 2 0 1 5 fo r R 3 0 0 0 0 a n d th e r e w a s a n a m o u n t w i t h d r a w n o n t h e 2 1 s t o f A p r il 2 0 1 5 f o r R 1 0 0 0 0 0 . P le a s e c a n y o u te ll u s h o w i t c a m e t h a t y o u w i t h d r e w th o s e a m o u n ts ? INTERPRETER: T h e q u e s ti o n w a s , s o r r y ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h a t a r e th e c i r c u ms t a n c e s a r o u n d th e w i t h d r a w a l o f t h o s e a m o u n ts ? 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : CHAIRPERSON: I t w a s r e q u e s te d b y Mr M a j o l a . A n d h o w .. . [ in t e r v e n e s ] B o t h a m o u n ts ? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s b u t I a m n o t s u r e i f I a m a l lo w e d to explain? CHAIRPERSON: J a , y o u c a n e x p l a in . Page 28 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 MR X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : M a y I p l a c e i t o n r e c o r d C h a ir t h a t lo o k in g a t t h is a m o u n t , th e s e a r e l a r g e a m o u n t s , in m y c o m p a n y w e d o n o t d o s u c h tr a n s a c ti o n s w i th t h e s e l a r g e a m o u n ts , i t’s o n ly u p to R10 000. I f w e a r e p a y i n g t h a t w e a r e d o i n g , w e tr a n s fe r th e m o n e y, hence I am saying it was not for my business, but it was requested by h i m , M r M a jo l a , t o w i t h d r a w th e s e a m o u n ts b e c a u s e w e d o n o t d o t h e s e la r g e a m o u n ts , i t i s o n l y u p u n ti l R 1 0 0 0 0 . CHAIRPERSON: D o y o u m e a n th a t in y o u r c o m p a n y a t Is ib o n e lo y o u d o n ’t d o c a s h w it h d r a w a ls e x c e e d in g R 1 0 0 0 0 ? 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: N o , w e d o n ’ t d o it . O k a y a n d y o u s a y t h a t th e s e – y o u s a y t h e s e c a s h w i t h d r a w a l s o f R 3 0 0 0 0 a n d R 1 0 0 0 0 0 y o u s a y th a t t h e y w e r e r e q u e s t e d b y Mr M a j o la , is t h a t b e c a u s e o f t h e la r g e a m o u n t s a s y o u s a y o r d o y o u h a v e a c l e a r r e c o ll e c ti o n t h a t M r M a j o la r e q u e s te d y o u t o w i t h d r a w t h e s e s p e c if ic a m o u n ts ? INTERPRETER: T h o u g h I d o n ’ t u n d e r s t a n d t h e la s t p a r t C h a ir b u t C h a ir m a y I i n te r p r e t th e n I w i ll b e c o r r e c t e d ? CHAIRPERSON: N o i t ’s fi n e , l e t ’s a s k h i m t o r e p e a t h i ms e lf . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : 20 L o o k i n g a t m y s ta t e m e n t y o u w i ll s e e t h e a m o u n t t h a t is a lw a y s c o n ta i n e d i n m y b a n k s t a te m e n t , i t is n o t a la r g e a m o u n t , i t is ju s t a s m a ll a m o u n t o f m o n e y. CHAIRPERSON: MR X Ye s , c o n ti n u e M r X . ( t h r o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A n d t h e n i f y o u lo o k a t t h e m o n e y w h ic h h a s b e e n d e p o s i t e d in t o o u r b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t fr o m K l o m a c , a n d t h e w i th d r a w a ls , w h e n y o u a d d t h e m u p t o g e t h e r t h e y w i ll g iv e y o u t h e Page 29 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 a m o u n t w h ic h h a s b e e n d e p o s i t e d b y K l o m a c , t h e y w il l t o t a l t o th a t a m o u n t w h ic h h a s b e e n d e p o s it e d i n to o u r b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t b y K l o m a c . CHAIRPERSON: Ye s t h a n k y o u . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h e n i f w e g o o v e r to p a g e 1 2 o f y o u r a ffi d a v i t M r X . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s , I a m o n p a g e 1 2 . W e a r e g o i n g t o d e a l w i t h t h e n e x t i n v o ic e t h a t Is ib o n e l o g e n e r a t e d t o A fr o s tr u c t u r e s , I w o u l d l ik e t o t a k e y o u to t h a t in v o ic e , y o u w i ll fi n d i t a t p a g e 6 2 , s i x t w o . 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h a t is t h e d a te o f th a t i n v o i c e M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I a m o n p a g e 6 2 . 2 4 . 0 6 .2 0 1 5 . A n d I s e e th a t i t i s m a d e o u t t o A fr o s tr u c t u r e s a n d th e d e s c r ip t io n o f t h e w o r k s is a l t e r a ti o n t o o ff ic e s . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I s e e t h a t . Is th e p r e v io u s e v id e n c e y o u g a v e a p p li c a b le t o th is in v o ic e , i n s o f a r a s y o u d o n o t k n o w A fr o s tr u c t u r e s , y o u h a v e n o t h a d d e a li n g s w i th th e m a n d Is i b o n e l o d i d n o t d o w o r k a l te r i n g a n y o ffic e s f o r A fr o s tr u c t u r e s ? 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : C o n f ir m e d . And then at paragraph 43 you record that Is ib o n e l o r e c e i v e d t h e f u n d s fr o m A f r o s tr u c t u r e s , th a t ’s b a c k i n y o u r a ffi d a v i t a t p a g e 1 2 . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I s e e t h a t p a r a g r a p h . I w o u l d li k e t o g o th e n to p a r a g r a p h 4 4 Page 30 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 b e c a u s e y o u d e s c r i b e th e r e w h a t i n s tr u c ti o n s y o u r e c e iv e d fr o m M r M a jo l a a f te r r e c e iv in g th a t p a y m e n t . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I see that. W h a t d i d y o u d o w i th t h e m o n ie s t h a t w e r e r e c e i v e d o n 2 4 J u ly 2 0 1 5 Mr X ? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : T h o u g h I d o n o t h a v e th e s ta t e m e n t th a t w o u ld r e m i n d m e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I c a n t a k e y o u t o i t Mr X . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : L e t ’s g o t o p a g e 6 . I am on page 64. Th e r e a r e t w o l in e s t h e r e h i g h li g h te d i n y e l lo w, t h e fi r s t r e f le c t s a c r e d i t in t o t h e a c c o u n t , s o m o n e y c o m i n g in t o t h e Is ib o n e l o a c c o u n t a n d i t in d i c a t e s t h a t i t w a s fr o m A fr o s tr u c t u r e s in t h e a m o u n t o f R 9 1 7 9 4 0 .5 4 . D o y o u c o n fir m t h a t t h a t m o n e y w a s received? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: Ye s I s e e i t . L e t’s g e t th e n u m b e r r ig h t . T h e a m o u n t is R 9 1 7 9 4 0 .5 4 . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: 20 Ye s I s e e i t . O k a y. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h r e e l in e s d o w n o n th a t p a g e th e r e is a n in d i c a t io n o f a c a s h w i t h d r a w a l , i t a p p e a r s to b e f r o m R ic h a r d s B a y 3 7 1 a n d i t is i n t h e a m o u n t o f R 6 0 0 0 0 , d o y o u r e c a ll t h e c ir c u m s ta n c e s a r o u n d t h a t w i th d r a w a l? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I d o . What happened? Page 31 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : M r M a jo la r e q u e s t e d c a s h m o n e y, c a s h . And that appears to have been withdrawn on t h e f o l lo w i n g d a y, o n t h e 2 5 t h o f J u l y, is th a t c o r r e c t? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a t i s c o r r e c t . A n d t h e n i f y o u g o o v e r to t h e s t a t e m e n t f o r t w o d a y s l a t e r y o u w i ll f in d th a t a t p a g e 6 6 . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I am on page 66. T h e r e is a h i g h li g h t e d p o r ti o n t h e r e r e f l e c ti n g a p a y m e n t in t o S i f e z a k o n k e E n g in e e r i n g o f R 6 0 0 0 0 0 o n t h e 2 7 t h o f J u ly 10 2 0 1 5 , d o y o u s e e th a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I s e e t h e a m o u n t . W h a t w e r e th e c ir c u m s t a n c e s a r o u n d t h a t payment? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a t ’s th e i n s tr u c t io n o f M r M a j o l a ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I w a s c o m p l y in g w i t h h is i n s tr u c t io n . Th a t i s c o r r e c t . M r X t h e n I h a v e t o t a k e y o u to p a g e 6 8 , b e c a u s e 6 8 is a c o n ti n u a ti o n o f y o u r b a n k s t a t e m e n t f o r t h e a t e o f 2 7 J u l y 2 0 1 5 , d o y o u h a v e t h a t in fr o n t o f y o u ? 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I a m o n i t . N o w t o w a r d s th e b o t t o m o f t h a t p a g e t h e r e i s a h i g h l ig h te d l i n e , t h r e e l i n e s fr o m t h e b o t to m , a n d it r e a d s a s f o ll o w s : “ S e e : p a y m e n t c o n fir m a t io n S M S M M a j o l a . ” M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I s e e t h a t t r a n s a c ti o n . A n d th a t a p p e a r s t o h a v e ta k e n p l a c e o n th e Page 32 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 2 7 t h o f J u ly 2 0 1 5 , d o y o u s e e th a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I s e e t h a t. C a n y o u t e l l u s h o w t h is S M S t o M M a j o l a arose? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : I d o n ’ t k n o w h o w i t h a p p e n e d i n te r m s o f h o w t h e b a n k w o r k s , I d o n ’t k n o w h o w i t h a p p e n e d . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : B u t d o y o u h a v e a n y k n o w le d g e o f w h y t h e r e w o u ld b e a n S M S t o M M a j o l a a f te r t h e R 6 0 0 0 0 0 w a s p a i d t o S i fe z a k o n k e ? 10 M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : I w o u ld n ’t k n o w, m a y b e t h is w a s d o n e b e t w e e n M r M a jo l a a n d m y s e c r e t a r y, b e c a u s e I a m n o t g o o d w i t h c o m p u te r s , s o I d o n ’ t k n o w e x a c tly h o w it h a p p e n e d b e t w e e n m a y b e m y s e c r e t a r y a n d M r M a j o l a a s to h o w t h is s m s w e n t t o M r M a jo la . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : D o y o u k n o w a n y p e o p l e w i t h t h e i n i t ia l M a n d t h e s u r n a m e M a j o l a o t h e r th a n t h e Mr M a jo l a t h a t y o u h a v e b e e n r e fe r r i n g t o i n y o u r t e s t i m o n y ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : No. T h a n k y o u . W e c a n t h e n g o o v e r b a c k in y o u r a ffi d a v i t t o p a g e 1 3 . 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: May I have a break? Ye s o k a y, I ’ m w o n d e r i n g w h e th e r w e s h o u l d j u s t u s e it a s a t e a b r e a k . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : CHAIRPERSON: I t h i n k s o C h a ir, w e a r e q u i te c l o s e . We are quite close to it ja. b r e a k , a f te r a ll w e s t a r t e d e a r l ie r t h a n n o r m a l . Page 33 of 104 O k a y, l e t u s ta k e a te a 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : CHAIRPERSON: Indeed. It i s f iv e t o e l e v e n n o w, le t u s r e s u m e a t q u a r t e r p a s t eleven. REGISTRAR: A ll r is e . INQUIRY ADJOURNS INQUIRY RESUMES CHAIRPERSON: Ye s , le t ’s p r o c e e d . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a n k y o u C h a ir. M r X c a n y o u h e a r u s ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . M r X I a m g o i n g t o c o n t in u e j u s t g o i n g t h r o u g h s y s te m a t ic a l ly t h e d i ff e r e n t i n v o ic e s a n d p a y m e n ts a n d f o r t h a t p u r p o s e I w o u l d l ik e y o u t o b e a t p a g e 1 3 o f y o u r a ffi d a v i t , E X H I B I T D D 3 1 . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I a m th e r e . Th a n k y o u , a n d y o u d e s c r i b e t h e r e a t p a r a g r a p h 4 6 a n o t h e r in v o ic e t h a t Is ib o n e l o is s u e d a g a in t o K l o m a c . I w o u ld l ik e to ta k e y o u t o th a t i n v o i c e , y o u w i ll fi n d i t a t p a g e 7 0 , s e v e n zero. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 20 W h a t is t h e d a te o f th is i n v o i c e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I a m o n p a g e 7 0 . 2 4 .0 8 . 2 0 1 5 . M r X I t h i n k t h e v e r s i o n y o u ’r e l o o k in g a t j u s t b e c a u s e o f h o w i t is r e c o r d e d i n y o u r a ffi d a v i t , I t h in k t h a t is a 0 6 , d o y o u c o n f ir m it ’s 2 4 .0 6 .2 0 1 5 . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : C o n f ir m y e s . Thank you. And again can I just get your Page 34 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 c o n fir m a t io n t h a t t h e g e n e r a ti o n o f t h i s i n v o ic e f o l l o w e d th e p r o c e s s t h a t y o u d e s c r i b e d t o u s p r e v io u s . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . A n d le t ’s j u s t f o r t h e r e c o r d r e c o r d i t i s a n in v o ic e p r e p a r e d o n Is ib o n e l o C o n s tr u c t io n l e t te r h e a d , i t i s a d d r e s s e d t o K l o m a c E n g i n e e r i n g a n d th e d e s c r i p ti o n o f w o r k s is p e r i m e t e r f e n c i n g fo r a n a m o u n t o f R 4 0 0 0 0 0 , a n d s e r v ic in g o f a ir c o n d i t io n e r s fo r R401 382. CHAIRPERSON: 10 And 28 on mine. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o r r y, I m i s r e a d , t h a t is R 4 0 1 3 2 8 , t h a n k y o u C h a ir. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : C o n f ir m e d . A n d a g a i n . .. [ in t e r v e n e s ] CHAIRPERSON: O n c e a g a in d o y o u c o n fir m t h a t th e a m o u n t o f R401 328 to r e la t e s a c c o r d in g to the i n v o ic e to servicing a ir - c o n d i ti o n e r s ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I d o c o n fir m . A n d ju s t t o c la r i f y a g a i n d id Is i b o n e l o e v e r d o p e r i m e t e r fe n c in g w o r k o r s e r v ic i n g o f a ir - c o n d i ti o n e r s fo r K l o m a c 20 Engineering? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : No. A n d d i d y o u r e c e iv e t h e d e s c r i p t i o n o f w o r k s f o r t h is i n v o i c e a s y o u h a v e d e s c r ib e d p r e v io u s ly fr o m M r M a j o l a ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . I w o u l d th e n li k e to r e tu r n t o y o u r a ffi d a v i t a t Page 35 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 page 13, paragraph 48. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s , I a m o n p a g e 1 3 , p a r a g r a p h 4 8 . At paragraph 48 you tell us what happened w i t h t h e fu n d s r e c e i v e d fr o m K l o m a c a f t e r t h a t i n v o ic e w a s is s u e d a n d I w o u ld l ik e t o j u s t t a k e y o u to t h o s e b a n k s t a t e m e n ts s o y o u c a n c o n f ir m for us what happened with the funds. page 74. Page 74. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 10 Th e f ir s t o f t h o s e y o u w il l fi n d a t I am on page 74. Yo u w il l s e e h i g h l ig h t e d t h e r e i s a n e n tr y o n t h e b a n k s ta t e m e n t t h a t o n t h e 1 4 t h o f A u g u s t a n a m o u n t o f R 1 4 9 0 0 0 a p p e a r s to h a v e b e e n p a i d t o Is iv u n o S a m i , d o y o u s e e t h a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I s e e i t . Is y o u r e v i d e n c e g i v e n p r e v i o u s l y a p p lic a b l e h e r e , in s o f a r a s th e in s t r u c t i o n t o m a k e t h a t p a y m e n t t o Is iv u n o S a m i c a m e fr o m M r M a j o l a ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . A n d th e n i f y o u g o o v e r to p a g e 7 6 , t h e r e a r e t w o tr a n s a c t i o n s t h a t h a p p e n e d th r e e d a y s l a t e r o n t h e 1 7 t h o f A u g u s t 2015? 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I see the amount. S o th e f ir s t o n e h i g h l ig h te d t h e r e a p p e a r s t o h a v e b e e n a c a s h w i t h d r a w a l , a g a i n a t R i c h a r d s B a y, o f R 5 0 0 0 0 , w h y was that money withdrawn? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I w a s c o m p l y in g t o t h e i n s tr u c ti o n . From whom? Page 36 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : M r M a jo la . Mr X c a n y o u h e l p u s th e r e o n c e t h e s e w i t h d r a w a l s w e r e m a d e h o w w o u ld t h e c a s h b e g iv e n t o M r M a j o l a ? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : I f I h a v e p e r s o n a l ly w i t h d r a w n th e m o n e y fr o m th e a c c o u n t I w o u l d c a ll h i m a n d t e l l h i m t h a t I h a v e w i t h d r a w n t h e money he should come. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W o u ld h e c o m e t o y o u t o c o l le c t i t? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: 10 Ye s . M s I n te r p r e t e r I j u s t w a n t t o s a y if y e s te r d a y a n d e a r ly t h i s m o r n i n g i t l o o k e d l ik e t h e r e w e r e c h a l le n g e s i n y o u r in t e r p r e t a ti o n , I t h in k y o u h a v e s i n c e i m p r o v e d c o n s i d e r a b ly, you are d o i n g q u i t e w e l l n o w. INTERPRETER: T h a n k y o u v e r y m u c h C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: O k a y, a lr i g h t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a n k y o u C h a i r. Sorry so we were at the p o i n t a t w h ic h y o u i n d i c a t e d t h a t M r M a j o l a w o u ld c o m e t o y o u t o c o l l e c t t h e c a s h , is t h a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 20 Ye s . A n d y o u i n d ic a te d t h e r e w o u l d b e ti m e s w h e n y o u w i t h d r e w t h e c a s h , w e r e t h e r e t i m e s w h e n o t h e r p e o p l e w it h d r e w the cash? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I t w a s my s e lf a n d m y d a u g h t e r. A n d w h e n y o u r d a u g h t e r w o u ld w it h d r a w t h e m o n e y h o w w o u l d th e c a s h b e h a n d e d o v e r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : S h e w o u ld t h e n c a l l h i m . Page 37 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w h a t a r r a n g e m e n t w o u l d th e n b e m a d e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I n t e r p r e t e r ) : W h a t w o u l d h a p p e n is m y d a u g h te r w o u ld w i t h d r a w t h e m o n e y, t h e n c a l l m e a n d in f o r m m e th a t I h a v e w i t h d r a w n t h e m o n e y. T h e n if I a m b u s y I w o u l d i n s tr u c t m y d a u g h t e r t o c a l l h i m b u t m o s t o f th e t i m e s a f t e r m y d a u g h t e r h a s i n fo r m e d m e t h a t s h e h a s w i th d r a w n t h e m o n e y I w o u l d t h e n p h o n e M r M a j o l a myself. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w o u l d i t a l w a y s b e t h e c a s e th a t h e c a m e t o y o u to c o ll e c t th e m o n e y ? 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : Ye s , I h a v e n e v e r t a k e n t h e m o n e y t o h is h o u s e o r d e liv e r e d t h e m o n e y t o h is h o u s e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : And did you ever ask what the cash was for? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: No. W h e n y o u r d a u g h te r h a d w i th d r a w n t h e m o n e y w o u l d s h e m e e t w i th M r M a j o l a t o h a n d o v e r t h e c a s h s o m e ti m e s o r w o u l d t h e p o s i ti o n b e t h a t a l l t h e ti m e s h e w o u l d h a n d o v e r th e m o n e y t o y o u a n d y o u w o u l d b e th e o n e t o g iv e t h e m o n e y t o M r M a j o l a ? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : It w o u ld n ’ t h a p p e n o f t e n t h a t m y d a u g h t e r w o u l d g iv e t h e m o n e y t o M r M a jo la , w h a t w o u l d h a p p e n i s s h e 20 w o u ld t h e n i n fo r m m e t h a t s h e h a s w i t h d r a w n t h e m o n e y a n d h a n d th e m o n e y to m e , b e c a u s e i t w o u l d b e a l a r g e a m o u n t , t h e n I w o u ld b e t h e o n e w h o i s c o n t a c ti n g Mr M a j o l a t o c o m e a n d c o ll e c t th e m o n e y. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o m o s t – a r e y o u s a y i n g m o s t o f t h e ti m e M r M a jo l a g o t t h e m o n e y fr o m y o u a n d it w a s o n ly a f e w ti m e s th a t h e g o t it fr o m y o u r d a u g h t e r. Page 38 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: Ye s . Thank you. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u , a n d t h e n I w o u l d lik e t o t a k e y o u t o t h e n e x t b a n k s ta t e m e n t t h a t i n d ic a te s w h a t h a p p e n e d w i th t h e m o n e y. O h , s o r r y it ’s o n t h e s a m e p a g e , w e w e r e a t p a g e 7 6 , a r e y o u t h e r e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I a m th e r e . Yo u w i ll s e e th e s e c o n d h i g h l ig h te d e n tr y o n t h a t p a g e in d i c a t e s th a t o n t h e 1 7 t h o f Au g u s t 2 0 1 5 a n a m o u n t o f R 5 5 0 0 0 0 w a s tr a n s fe r r e d t o Is iv u n o S a m i . C a n y o u c o n fir m t h a t t h a t is 10 what happened? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I s e e t h a t tr a n s a c ti o n . T h a n k y o u , a n d y o u c a n c o n f ir m t h a t th a t is w h a t i n d e e d h a p p e n e d , th a t a n a m o u n t o f R 5 5 0 0 0 0 w a s p a i d t o Is i v u n o Sami. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I c o n f ir m . And does your previous evidence about the p r o c e s s a p p ly th a t th a t w a s d o n e o n t h e in s tr u c t io n o f M r M a j o la ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 20 Ye s . T h a n k y o u M r X . W e t h e n g o t o a n e w e n ti ty t o w h o m I s i b o n e lo is s u e d a n in v o ic e in S e p t e m b e r o f 2 0 1 5 . I t is o n t h e 2 9 t h S e p te m b e r 2 0 1 5 b u t y o u w il l f i n d t h e i n v o ic e a t p a g e 7 8 , s e v e n ty eight. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I a m o n p a g e 7 8 . W h a t j u s t f o r t h e r e c o r d is t h e d a te o f th is in v o ic e ? Page 39 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h I n t e r p r e t e r ) : I a m n o t s u r e i f th a t is a 2 0 o r 2 9 o f 09/2015. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I t h i n k fr o m y o u r a ffi d a v it i t in d ic a t e s i t is p r o b a b ly 2 9 . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s i t is 2 9 , y e s . T h a n k y o u , a n d a g a i n th is a p p e a r s t o b e a n in v o ic e is s u e d b y I s i b o n e l o to M n d i m a C iv i ls , is t h a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 10 Ye s I s e e i t . D i d Is i b o n e lo h a v e a n y d e a l i n g s te le p h o n ic o r in p e r s o n w i t h a n y o n e f r o m M n d i m a C i v il s w h e n t h is i n v o i c e w a s g e n e r a te d ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : No H a v e y o u e v e r h a d a n y in t e r a c t io n s w it h p e r s o n s fr o m M n d i m a C iv il s e i th e r b e fo r e o r a ft e r t h e g e n e r a t i o n o f t h is in v o ic e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : says on this page. No. L e t u s l o o k a t w h a t t h e d e s c r ip t io n o f w o r k I t r e f l e c ts t h e r e b u i ld i n g b lo c k s t o r e s , r e n o v a t i o n o f carpenters workshop and paint roof leak and be price that appears for 20 t h a t w o r k is R 8 1 6 0 0 0 , 9 0 , d o y o u s e e t h a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . D id I s i b o n e l o e v e r p e r f o r m t h e w o r k f o r M n d i m a C iv i ls d e s c r ib e d i n t h is i n v o i c e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : No. H o w d id y o u g e t t h e d e ta ils o f M n d i m a C i v i ls i f Page 40 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 y o u h a d n e v e r i n t e r a c te d w i t h t h e m ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I t w a s o n c e a g a in b r o u g h t b y M r M a jo la . Thank you. I t h e n w a n t t o g o t o th e n e x t in v o ic e w h i c h n o w is s e n t t o I th i n k i t ’s t h e 4 t h e n ti t y w e h a v e d e a l t w it h in t h e s e p r o c e e d in g s . Yo u w i ll fi n d t h a t a t p a g e 8 2 , 8 2 . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h a t is t h e d a te o f th is i n v o i c e . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 10 I am on page 82. 3 0 /0 9 / 2 0 1 5 . I t a p p e a r s to b e t h e d a y a f te r t h e d a t e o f M n d i m a C iv il s i n v o ic e w e w e r e j u s t lo o k i n g a t w h ic h w a s 2 9 / 0 9 / 2 0 1 5 , correct? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a t i s c o r r e c t . N o w th is is a n I s ib o n e l o C o n s t r u c ti o n i n v o i c e m a d e o u t t o c u s t o m e r a n d th e n a m e is S S O J V, w h a t d o e s th a t m e a n ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I don’t know what it is. S o y o u d o n ’t e v e n k n o w t h e e n ti ty t o w h o m th is was made out? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 20 No I don’t know it. A n d t h e d e s c r i p ti o n o f w o r k s is o ff ic e r e n o v a t io n s f o r w h ic h t h e p r ic e c h a r g e d w a s R 1 . 5 m il li o n a n d s u r g e t o w e r r e f u r b i s h m e n t f o r R 5 0 0 0 0 0 , d id I s i b o n e l o p e r fo r m a n y o f t h o s e works? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I d o n ’ t k n o w th is j o b d e s c r i p ti o n . A n d c a n y o u p e r f o r m Is i b o n e lo d i d n o t p e r f o r m those works? Page 41 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : No we didn’t do it. T h a n k y o u . A n d t h e n I w o u ld lik e t o m o v e t o w h a t h a p p e n e d a f te r r e c e i p t o f th e f u n d s , b o t h f o r t h e M n d i m a C iv il s in v o ic e o f 2 9 S e p t e m b e r a n d t h e i n v o ic e t o S S O w h ic h w e w i ll u n d e r s t a n d in o th e r e v id e n c e is a r e f e r e n c e t o S t e ffi n u ti . .. [ in d is ti n c t ] CHAIRPERSON: I a m s o r r y M s H o f m e y r j u s t to c o n c lu d e o n t h a t in v o ic e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : CHAIRPERSON: 10 Apologies. D o y o u c o n f ir m M r X t h a t t h e t o ta l a m o u n t o n t h a t in v o ic e is R 2 2 8 0 0 0 0 ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: I d o c o n fi r m . A n d t h a t i s t h e i n v o ic e is s u e d b y Is i b o n e l o C o n s tr u c t i o n t o S S O J V ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: C o n f ir m e d . T h a n k y o u Ms H o f m e y r. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. I w o u ld t h e n l ik e t o lo o k a t w h a t h a p p e n e d w h e n t h o s e f u n d s w e r e r e c e i v e d , b u t fi r s t le t ’s g o a n d lo o k a t th e b a n k s t a t e m e n ts w h ic h s h o w s t h e p a y m e n t R 2 2 8 0 0 0 0 , y o u w i ll fi n d t h a t a t p a g e 8 4 , e ig h t fo u r. 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I am on page 84. T h a n k y o u , a n d y o u w i ll s e e h i g h l i g h t e d o n t h a t p a g e t h e r e i s a n e n tr y th a t o n t h e 2 n d o f D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 5 a n a m o u n t o f R 2 2 8 0 0 0 0 a p p e a r s t o h a v e b e e n p a i d i n t o th e a c c o u n t , a n d t h e r e fe r e n c e th e r e i s S t e ff i n u t i S t o c k s / O R O J V. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s I s e e t h e t r a n s a c t io n . Page 42 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 CHAIRPERSON: A n d , I a m s o r r y, y o u c o n f ir m t h a t th e d o c u m e n t w e a r e l o o k i n g a t is a s t a te m e n t fr o m t h e S t a n d a r d B a n k a c c o u n t o f Is ib o n e l o C o n s tr u c ti o n ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : CHAIRPERSON: I c o n fir m . Thank you. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A t t h e ti m e o f t h e is s u e o f t h e in v o ic e a n d t h e r e c e i p t o f th is p a y m e n t d i d Is i b o n e l o h a v e a n y i n t e r a c ti o n s o r d e a li n g s w i t h S t e ffi n u t i s to c k s ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : No. H a v e y o u e v e r h a d a n y d e a li n g s b e f o r e o r a f te r w i t h a n y p e r s o n fr o m S t e ff in u ti s t o c k s ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : No. I w o u ld th e n li k e t o t r a c k t h r o u g h th e b a n k s t a te m e n ts w h a t h a p p e n s w i t h th e m o n e y a ft e r t h a t a m o u n t is r e c e iv e d a n d I w il l d r a w y o u r a t t e n t io n to p a g e 8 6 . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I am on page 86. S o y o u w i ll s e e t h e r e t h e b a n k s t a te m e n t i s c o n ti n u i n g o n t h e d a te o f th e 2 n d o f D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 5 , t h a t is t h e d a y o n w h ic h t h e p a y m e n t i n t o t h e a c c o u n t o f R 2 2 8 0 0 0 0 w a s m a d e . 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I s e e t h a t. T h e f ir s t h i g h l ig h te d e n tr y o n t h e p a g e 8 6 o f E X H I B I T D D 3 1 is a c a s h w i t h d r a w a l , a g a i n a t R i c h a r d s B a y o f R 3 0 0 0 0 . W h y w a s t h a t c a s h w it h d r a w n ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : I t w a s r e q u e s t e d b y M r M a j o la . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w a s i t g iv e n t o Mr M a jo l a ? Page 43 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . And was it given to him in the way that you d e s c r ib e d p r e v io u s ly, t h a t y o u w o u l d p h o n e h i m , t e l l h i m t h a t y o u h a d t h e c a s h a n d h e w o u ld c o m e a n d c o ll e c t i t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . A n d th e n th e s e c o n d h i g h l ig h t e d e n tr y o n t h a t p a g e is a tr a n s f e r o f R 4 0 0 0 0 0 o n t h e s a m e d a t e , t h e 2 n d o f D e c e m b e r, t o w h a t a p p e a r s t o b e S if e z a k o n k e E n g i n e e r, is th a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I s e e t h a t tr a n s a c ti o n . D o y o u c o n f ir m th a t th a t w a s a g a i n in t h e li g h t o f y o u r p r e v i o u s e v id e n c e o n th e i n s tr u c t io n s o f M r M a j o la ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I c o n fir m . Th e n i f w e g o o v e r t o p a g e 8 8 y o u w il l s e e t h e b a n k s t a t e m e n t f o r th e n e x t d a y, t h e 3 r d o f D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 5 . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I a m o n p a g e 8 8 . T h e r e is a f ir s t h i g h l ig h t e d e n tr y t h e r e o f a c a s h w i th d r a w a l a t R i c h a r d s B a y o f R 1 5 0 0 0 0 , w h y w a s t h a t c a s h withdrawn? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W a s th e m o n e y g i v e n t o h i m ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : M r M a jo la r e q u e s t e d t h e m o n e y. Ye s . T h e r e i s a l s o a n e n tr y t h e r e o f R 1 5 0 0 0 o f a c a s h , a c h e q u e c a s h e d , i s t h a t r e l a t e d t o t h e d e a li n g s o f M r M a j o la ? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : It could be my cheque because I am lo o k in g a t t h e e n t r y t h e r e , i t is c h e q u e c a s h e d , s o i t c o u ld b e my Page 44 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 cheque. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : R i g h t , th e n l e t ’s g o o v e r t o p a g e 9 0 , n i n e z e r o . W e a r e n o w a t t h e b a n k s t a t e m e n t f o r t h e n e x t d a y, th a t ’s t h e 4 t h o f December 2015. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I s e e . T h e r e a p p e a r t o b e t w o p a y m e n ts t h a t w e r e m a d e o n t h i s d a y, i n h i g h l ig h t in g t o Is i v u n o S a m i , t h e r e w a s f ir s t a n a m o u n t o f R 1 5 0 0 0 0 , a n d th e n l a t e r a fu r t h e r R 1 0 0 . C a n y o u c o n f ir m w h y t h o s e a m o u n ts w e r e p a i d to I s i v u n o S a m i o n t h e 4 t h o f D e c e m b e r 10 2015? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I t w a s Mr M a j o l a ’s i n s tr u c t io n . T h a n k y o u , i f w e g o o v e r to p a g e 9 2 w e m o v e t o t h e 5 t h o f D e c e m b e r. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I s e e . T h e r e is a h i g h l ig h t e d c a s h w i t h d r a w a l o f R 2 5 0 0 0 a t Vr y h e id , w h y w a s t h a t a m o u n t w i t h d r a w n o n th a t d a y ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : I – I r e me mb e r th is tr a n s a c tio n , it w a s my mo n e y, th e 2 5 th a t is r e fle c te d a s a tr a n s a c tio n . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : 20 C H A IR PER SO N: Th a n k y o u . L e t u s g o o v e r to p a g e 9 4 . I a m s o r r y, I a m s o r r y Mis s H o fme yr I w o n d e r w h e th er y o u s ho u ld n o t c on s id er la te r o n , h ig h lig h ting it in a d iffe r e n t c o lo u r th o s e ite ms , th o s e a mo u n ts th a t h e s a y s w h er e h is . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : We w ill d o th a t C h a ir. I th in k th a t th e e v id e n c e to d a y h a s as s is te d to c la r ify th a t. C H A IR PER SO N: Ye s – y e s . Page 45 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : So ju s t fo r th e r e c o r d s p u rp o s es w h a t w e w ill d o is , w e w ill r e ta in in y e llo w h ig h lig h tin g a ll o f th o s e a mo u n ts th a t Mr X h a s c o n fir me d w er e d o n e o n th e in s tr uc tio n s o f Mr Ma jo la C H A IR PER SO N: Ja. A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : An d w h e r e h e is co n fir min g h is e v id en c e to d ay th a t th e y r e la te to h is o w n mo n ie s w e w ill ma k e a g r e e n h igh lig h tin g . C H A IR PER SO N: J a th a t is fin e . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : L e t u s th e n mo v e if w e ma y to p a g e 9 4 , n in e fo u r. 10 MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I a m o n p a g e 9 4 . Th is is a b a n k s ta te me n t r e fle c tin g tr a n s a c tio n s o n th e 7 D e c e mb e r 2 01 5 . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I s e e th e tr a n s a c tio n . An d th e 7 D e c e mbe r w a s fiv e da ys a fte r y o u h ad r e c e iv e d th e la r g e p a y me n t o f R 2 2 8 0 0 0 0 .0 0 fr o m Ste fa n u t ti Sto c k s , is th a t c o r r e c t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I n o tic e th a t. An d y o u w ill s e e h i g h lig h te d th e r e in y e llo w is a p a y me n t to Sife z a k o n k e o f R 9 0 0 0 0 0 .0 0 . W h a t w a s th e c ir c u ms ta nc es o f 20 th a t p a y me n t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : I w a s c o mp ly in g to th e in s tr u c tio n s o f Mr Ma jo la . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : An d th e n th e la s t o n e in th e s e q u e n c e is a t p a g e 96. MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , I s e e it. Page 46 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : An d n o w w e a r e o n th e 8 D e c e mb e r, s o w e a r e s ix d a ys a fte r r e c e ip t o f th e p a y me n t fr o m Ste fa n u tti Sto c k s a n d it in d ic a te s th a t a millio n R a n d w a s pa id to Is iv u n o Sa mi o n th a t d a y. W h a t w e r e th e c irc u ms ta nc e s o f th a t p a y me n t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : C o mp ly in g o n c e a g a in to th e in s tr u c tio n s o f Mr Ma jo la . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Mr X w h a t y o u r a ffi d a v it th e n g o e s on to e x p la in is in th a t p e r io d b e tw e e n th e 2 n d D ec e mb er a n d th e 8 t h D ec e mb e r 20 1 5 th a t w e h a v e b e e n lo ok in g a t, 10 Is ib o n e lo is s u e d a fu r th e r inv o ice to a c u s to me r id e n tifie d a s SSO J V. I w o u ld lik e to ta k e y o u to th a t in v o ic e , it is a t p a g e 9 8 o f Ex h ib it D D ( 5 1 ) . An d c a n I t a k e it th e n , w e ll, le t u s fir s t o f a ll d o th e d a te o f th is in v o ic e , w h a t is th e d a te o f th e in v o ic e ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : 0 6 /1 2 /2 0 1 5 , 0 5 – 0 5 . In d e e d . It is 0 - 5 , I th in k b a s ed o n yo u r a ffid a v it. It w a s ma d e o u t to c u s to me r SSO J V, w h e n it w a s ma d e o u t [in te r v e n e s ]. C H A IR PER SO N: So r r y. A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : C H A IR PER SO N: D id y o u g e t th a t d a te r ig h t? A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : 20 C H A IR PER SO N: Ap o lo g ie s C h a ir. Ye s , it is 0 5 /1 2 /2 0 1 5 C h a ir. O k a y, I th in k th e r e w a s a r e fe r e nc e to 0 5 . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Th a n k y o u , o h y es, y e s , a p o log ie s , a n d th a t is c o n fir me d a t p a r a g r ap h 5 7 o f Mr X’s a ffid a v it a t p a g e 1 6 . R ig h t, le t u s lo o k a t th e c us to me r as to wh o m th is w as ma d e o u t. It w a s ma d e ou t to SSO J V. Mr X a t th e ti me th is in v o ic e w as g e n e r a te d d id yo u k n ow w h o SSO J V w a s ? Page 47 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : No. An d th e d e s c r ip tio n o f th e w o r k s , a g a in , s o me mo r e p a r a me te r fe nc in g it a p p e a r s in th e a mo u n t o f R 8 9 5 4 0 0 .0 0 a n d p u mp - s ta tio n c o ns tr u c tio n b u ilt fo r a n a m o u n t o f R 8 5 3 1 0 7 .2 0 , d o y o u c o n fir m th a t is w h a t is r e fle c te d o n th e in v o ic e ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I c o n fir m. D id Is ib o n e lo e v e r d o p a r a me te r fe n c in g w or k o r p u mp - s ta tio n c on s tr uc tio n fo r SSO J V o r a n y o th e r e n tity ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : 10 A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : No. An d c a n y o u c o n fir m th e to ta l a mo u n t in v o ic e d o n th is in v o ic e w as R 1 9 9 3 4 35 .0 1 ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s . An d th e n i f w e g o th e b a n k s ta te me n t th a t r e fle c ts th e r e c e ip t o f th is p a y me n t y o u w ill fin d th a t a t p a g e 1 0 0 / MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I am on page 100. C a n y o u p le as e in dic a te fr o m w h o m th is p ay me n t o f R 1 9 9 3 4 3 5 , th e y s e e m to h a v e le ft o ff th e o n e C e n t, w a s r e c e iv e d fr o m? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : 20 A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : S te fa n u tti St o c ks . Th a n k y o u , I th in k th e fu ll e n tr y r e a d s Ste fa n u tti Sto c k s / O R O J V, is th a t c o r r e c t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Tr u e . I w o u ld th e n lik e to lo o k a t w h a t h a p p e n e d to th e fu n d s a fte r th e y w er e r ec e iv e d in th e Is ibo n e lo Bu s in es s Ac c o un t w ith Sta n d a r d Ba n k , a n d fo r th a t p u r p o s e p le as e tu r n to p a g e 1 0 2 . Page 48 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I am on page 102. Th e r e is a h ig h li g h te d e n tr y th e r e in y e llo w in d ic a tin g a p a y me n t fr o m Is ib o n e lo to Is i v u n o Sa mi in th e a mo u n t o f R 8 5 0 0 0 0 .0 0 o n th e 2 4 Fe b r ua r y 2 01 6 , d o yo u s e e th a t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , I d o s e e th e tr a n s a c tio n . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : what An d were th e c ir c u ms ta nc e s of th a t p a y me n t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : C o mp ly in g to th e in s tr u c tio n fr o m Mr Ma jo la . 10 A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : An d if w e g o o v e r th e p a g e to p a g e 1 0 4 . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I am on page 104. An d th e r e is a h igh lig h te d e n tr y th er e in ye llo w in d ic a tin g a p a y men t fr o m Is ib o n e lo to Sif e z a ko n k e ‘C o n s tru c ’, w h ich I th in k is s h o r t fo r c o n s tr uc tio n o f R 7 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 o n th e 2 4 Fe b r u a r y 2 0 1 6 . D o y ou c o n fir m th a t th a t p a y men t w a s ma de b y Is ib on e lo to Sife z a ko n k e C o n s tr uc tio n ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I d o c o n fir m. An d w h a t w a s th e c ir c u ms ta n c es a r o un d th a t p a y me n t? 20 MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : An d th e n if w e g o t o p a g e 1 0 6 . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : C o mp ly in g to Mr Ma jo la ’s in s tr u c tio n s . I am on page 106. Yo u w ill s e e h ig h lig h te d th e r e a c a s h w ith d r a w a l th e fo llo w in g d a y o n th e 2 5 Fe b r ua ry 2 0 1 6 a t R ic h a rd s Ba y o f R 1 5 0 0 0 0 .0 0 . W h y w as th a t c a s h w ith d r aw n? Page 49 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : C o mp ly in g t o h is in s tr u c tio n , th a t is Mr Ma jo la . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : An d c a n y o u c o n fir m th a t o n c e th e c as h w a s w ith d r a w n w h a t h a p p e ne d to it? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : I c a lle d h im a n d in fo r me d h im th a t I h a v e th e mo n e y n o w. A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : An d w a s th e mo n e y g iv e n to Mr Ma jo la ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : 10 Ye s . C h a ir w e h a v e c ome to th e e n d o f th e s e r ie s o f p a y me n ts , b o th r e c e ip ts a n d p a y me n ts o u t, b u t I d id n e g le c t to g e t Mr X’s c o n fir ma tio n o f th e r e c e ip t o f th e Md ima C i v ils p a y men t, a n d th a t y o u w ill fin d a t p a g e 8 0 , e ig h t z e r o Mr X. MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I am on page 80. N o w th a t w a s a p a y me n t in d ic a te d o n th e s ta te me n t to h a v e b ee n ma d e o n th e 1 s t D ec e mb e r 2 0 1 5 Th e a mo u n t w as R 9 3 0 2 4 1 .0 2 an d it a p p ea r s to ind ic a te to ha v e b ee n r ec e ive d fr o m Md ima C iv ils , is th a t th e s a me a mo u n t th a t y o u in v o ic ed Md ima C iv ils fo r, a mo n th , o n th e 2 9 Se p te mb e r 2 0 1 5 ? L e t me g o to th e in v o ic e s o y o u c a n c o mp a re it. Th e in v o ic e is a t p a g e 7 8 , s ev e n e ig h t, a n d th e n th e b an k 20 s ta te me n t is a t p a g e 8 0 . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I t is th e s a me a mo u n t. Th a n k y o u a n d y o u r e v id e n ce in r e la tio n to th a t in v o ic e , I ta k e it w o u ld b e th e s a me , y o u w e r e to ld to in v o ic e Md ima C iv ils d e s p ite n o t h a v in g a n y r e la tio n s h ip w ith th e m. Th e D e s c r ip tio n o f Wo r ks c a me fr o m Mr Ma jo la , th e in v o ic e w as g e n e r a te d a n d th e n p ay me n t Page 50 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 w a s r ec e ive d . Is th a t c o r r ec t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : C o n fir m. Th a n k y o u , I w o u ld n o w lik e to mo v e Mr X to th e la s t to p ic o f r e le v a n c e in y o ur a ffid a v it a n d y o u w ill fin d th a t a t p a g e 1 7 o f th e a ffid a v it, w h ic h is Ex h ib it D D ( 3 1) . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I am on page 17. N o w w h a t y o u s a y a t th e b o tto m o f th a t p a g e in p a r a gr a p h 6 0 is th a t y o u g o in g to d ea l w ith th r e e p a y men ts th a t Is ib o n e lo r e c e iv e d fr o m Pr e mie r Attr a c tio n 1 0 1 6 C C . 10 C H A IR PER SO N: Be fo r e y o u p r o c e ed , o k a y ju s t c o n tin u e . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : C H A IR PER SO N: I s e e it. Be fo r e y o u p r o c e ed , Mis s H o fme y r I th in k it w o u ld b e c o n ve n ie n t if w e c a n ha v e th e to ta l a mo un t o f a ll th e a mo u n ts th a t h e s a ys w er e p a id in to Is ibo n e lo ’s ac c ou n t in a c c or d a nc e w ith Mr Ma jo la ’s in s tr u c tio ns a n d th e to ta l a mo un t th a t w a s p a id o u t s o th a t we h av e th e b ig p ic tu r e . . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : C H A IR PER SO N: Big p ic tu r e , c e r ta in ly. If i t is n o t r e a d y le t u s d o i t b e fo r e h e f in is h e s h is e v id e nc e 20 A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , w e c a n c e r ta in ly d o th a t I w ill a s k my J u n io r a n d te a m o f In v e s tig a to r s w h o a r e as s is tin g u s to d a y, to g e t to th a t. C H A IR PER SO N: J a if th e y c a n w o r k – w o r k o u t s o th a t w e h a v e a p ic tu r e o f th e to ta l a mo u n t, ja . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Fu ll p ic tu r e , in d e e d . Th e y c a n w o rk o n th a t a n d th e n w e w ill d e a l w ith it a t th e e n d o f th e e v id e n c e w ith Mr X. Th a n k y o u . Page 51 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 C H A IR PER SO N: O k a y. A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : We n o w mo v e to w h a t y o u d e sc r ibe in y ou r a ffid a v it a t th e b o t to m o f p a g e 1 7 a s C o n d uit Pa y me n ts , a n d y o u s a y th a t y o u a r e g o in g to d e a l w ith th r e e p a y me n ts t h a t y o u r e c e iv ed fr o m Pr e mie r Attr a c tio n . Mr X I w o u ld lik e to ta k e y o u fir s t o f a ll to th e b a nk s ta te me n ts th a t s h o w th e s e p a y men ts in to Is ib o n e lo ’s a cc o u n t a n d to d o th a t w e n e e d to tu r n fir s t to p a g e 1 0 8 . IN TER PR ETER : Yo u s a id th e p a g e ? A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : 10 108. MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I a m o n p a g e 1 0 8 . D o y o u s e e a t the b o tto m th e r e a h ig h lig h te d e n tr y th e r e in y e llo w, r e fle c tin g a p a y me n t i n to Is ib o n e lo ’s a c c o u n t o n th e 2 4 t h o f O c to b e r 2 0 1 5 in th e a mo u n t o f O n e Millio n R a n d ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I s e e th e tr a n s a c tio n . N o w th e d e s c r ip tion fo r th e tr a n s a c tio n a p p ea r s o n th e le ft- h a n d s id e o f th e p a g e , d o y o u s e e th a t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I s e e th a t. An d it r e a d s a s fo llo w s : IB p a y me n t fr o m PA1 0 1 6 , d o y o u s e e th a t? 20 MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s W h e n y o u r e c e iv e d th is p a y me n t in to Is in e b e lo ’s a c c ou n t Mr X, d id y o u k n o w w h a t PA1 0 1 6 w a s ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I d id n o t k n o w. I a m g o in g to c o me in a mo me n t to w h a t y o u d id le a r n a b o u t th a t p a y me n t b u t I w a n t to d o a ll th r e e p a y me n ts fir s t in th e Page 52 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 b a n k ac c ou n ts . So c a n w e ne x t g o to th e ba n k a cc o un t a p p e a r in g a t 1 - 1 0? IN TER PR ETER : Th e n e x t o n e is o n p a g e ? A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : 1 - 1 - 0 , o n e h u n d r ed a n d te n . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I a m o n p a g e 11 0 . Yo u w ill s e e h ig h lig h te d th e r e o n th e s ta te me n t r e fle c tin g a tr a n s fe r in to Is ib o n e lo ’s a c c o un t o n 11 th o f D e c e mb e r 2 0 1 5 , is a n a mo u n t o f R 1 1 5 0 0 0 0 .0 0 d o y o u s e e th a t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : 10 A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I s e e th e tr a n s a c tio n . An d a g a in , th e IB p a y me n t d e s cr ip tio n in d ic a te s th a t it is fr o m PA1 0 1 6 , d o y o u s e e th a t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I d o s e e th a t e n tr y. O n th e 11 t h o f D ec e mb e r 2 0 1 5 , d id y o u k n o w w h a t PA1 0 1 6 w a s r e fe rr in g to ? IN TER PR ETER : Is i t 2 0 1 5 , o r 1 6 . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ap o lo g ie s , I mig h t h a v e sa id , w h e n I, D e c e mb e r of 2015. IN TER PR ETER : O k a y. [ In te r v e n e s ] A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : 20 IN TER PR ETER : 2015. 2 0 1 5 . Ye s . Th e q u e s tio n w a s , s o rr y. A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ap o lo g ie s , I mig h t h a v e ma de a n er r or b e ca u se th e s ta te me n t in d ic a te s it is fr o m D e c e mbe r 2 0 1 5 to J a n ua ry 2 0 1 6 , b u t th is is th e d a te o f 11 t h De c e mbe r 2 01 5 a nd th e q u e s tio n w a s , w he n th is p a y me n t w a s r ec e iv ed in Is ib o n e lo ’s a c c ou n t, d id Mr X k n o w w h a t th e r e fe r e nc e PA1 0 1 6 r e fe r r ed to ? Page 53 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I d id n o t k n o w. An d th e fin a l b a n k s ta te me n t r e fle c tin g th es e th r e e p a y me n ts a pp e a rs a t p a g e o n e h u n dr ed a n d tw e lv e , 11 2 . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I a m o n p a g e 11 2 . Th e r e is a fir s t h i g h lig h te d e n tr y o n th a t p a g e r e fle c tin g a p a y me n t in to th e Is ib o n e lo a c c ou n t w ith Sta n d a r d Ba n k o n th e 2 n d o f Fe b r u a r y 2 0 1 6 w ith a p a y me n t r e fe re n c e a g a in fr o m PA1 0 1 6 . D o y o u s e e th a t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : 10 A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I s e e th e tr a n s a c tio n . O n th e 2 n d o f Fe b r u a r y 2 01 6 d id y ou k n ow w h a t th e r e fe r e n c e PA1 0 1 6 r e fe rr e d to ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : No. Mr X, I w o u ld th e n lik e to r e tu r n to yo u r a ffid a v it a t p a g e 1 8 . Th a t is in Ex h ib it D D ( 3 1 ) . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : I am on page 18. N o w y o u ha v e tes tifie d th a t w h e n th e s e a mou n ts w e r e r ec e iv ed in Is ib o n e lo ’s b a n k a c co u n t, y o u d id n o t k n o w w h a t th e r e fe r e nc e PA1 0 1 6 r e fe r r ed to . Is th a t c o r r e c t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : 20 A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Th a t is c o r r ec t. An d if y o u lo o k a t p a r a g r a p h 6 1 o n p a g e 1 8 o f y o u r a ffid a v it. MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I a m lo o k in g . Yo u s a y th e r e : “W h e n I lo o k e d a t th e Is ib on e lo b an k sta te me n ts r e fle c tin g th e s e de p o s its , I n o tic e d , n o te d th a t th e Page 54 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 r e fe r e nc e o n th e p a y me n t w a s PA1 0 1 6 . I had no k n o w led g e w h en th e C o mmis s ion s in v es tig ato r, w h e n th e y fir s t s h o w ed me th e s e p a y men ts , th a t th e y w e r e ma d e by Pr e mier. I asked th e Co mmis s io n ’s in v e s tig a to r to fin d o u t w h a t e n ti ty p a id th e s e a mo u n ts .” MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Th a t is tr u e . An d w h a t h a p p e n e d? W h a t d id th e c o mmis s io n ’s in v e s tig a to rs th e n d o ? 10 MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : Th e y le f t w it h th is r e fe r e n c e , PA1 0 1 6 a n d r e tu r n e d w ith th e n a me o f th e e n tity o r th e c o mp a n y a s Pr e mier. A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Th a n k y o u , a n d y o u in d ic a te a t p a ra g r ap h 6 2 th a t y o u w e re s h ow n a s p r ea d sh e e t. [In te r v e n es] C H A IR PER SO N: So r r y. A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : C H A IR PER SO N: Ap o lo g ie s , C h a ir. J u s t to ma k e s ur e th e re is c o mp le te un d e rs ta n d in g , w h e n y ou s a y Pr e mier, y o u r e fe r to Pr e mie r Attr a c tio n , is th a t c o r r e c t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : C H A IR PER SO N: 20 Th a t is c o r r ec t. Ac tu a lly, y o u r e fe r to Pr e mie r Attr a c tio n 1 0 1 6 C C . Is th a t c o r r e c t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . C H A IR PER SO N: Pr e mie r Attr a c tio n 1 0 1 6 C C . IN TER PR ETER : O h . I t is Pr e mie r At tr a c tio n 1 0 1 6 C C . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s . Th a n k y o u . An d y o u in d ic a te a t p a r a g r a p h 6 2 Page 55 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 th a t y o u w e r e s h o w n a s p r e a d s he e t r e la tin g to th e th r e e p a y me n ts th a t h a d b e e n r e ce iv e d fr o m Sta n d ar d Ba n k . I w o u ld lik e to ta ke y o u to th a t s p r e ad s he e t. I t is a t p a g e 11 4 . IN TER PR ETER : D id y o u s a y 11 4 ? A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : 11 4 In d e e d . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , I a m o n p a g e 11 4 . Is th is th e d o c u me n t th a t th e in v e s tig a to r s h o we d you? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : 10 A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s . Yo u w ill s e e o v e r o n th e , w e ll, le t u s d e a l w ith th e fir s t lin e . Th e fir s t lin e r e a d s : “Is ib o n e lo C o n s tr uc tio n c o n tr a d e ta ils ” a n d th e n th e s e c o n d lin e , “Sta n d a r d Ba n k a c c o un t n u mb e r ” An d th e n th e r e is a n a c c o u n t n u mb e r g iv e n th e r e . Is th a t, w h a t a c c o u n t n u mb e r is th a t? IN TER PR ETER : W h a t a c c o u n t n u mb e r is th a t, I me a n ? C H A IR PER SO N: I th in k w h a t Ms H o fme y r w a n ts to k n o w is w h e th e r h e k n o ws w h os e a cc o u n t n u mb er th a t is . 20 IN TER PR ETER : O h . O h , o k a y. My a p o lo g ie s , C h a ir. MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : If i t ma y b e r e a d o u t th e n I w ill b e a b le ma y b e to r e c o gn iz e it. A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , c e r ta in ly. An d ju s t fo r a s s is ta n c e , Mr X, if y o u g o b a c k to o n e o f th e b a n k s ta te me n ts o f Is ib o n e lo , a n d y o u c a n ju s t flip b a c k tw o p a g es to p a g e 11 2 . Yo u w ill s e e a t th e to p o f th a t p a g e Page 56 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 th e r e is a n a c co u n t n u mb e r in d ica te d a n d let me r e a d it in to th e r e c o r d . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s . It is : “0 6 2 0 1 4 8 0 3 ” W h a t a c c ou n t is th a t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Th a n k y o u . An d th e n if w e g o b a c k to p a g e 11 4 . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : 10 I t is Is ib o n e lo’s a c c o un t It is my a c c o u n t. I a m o n p a g e 11 4 . Yo u w ill s e e th a t b e lo w th o se d e sc r ip tio ns th a t w e h a v e jus t r e a d in to th e r e c o r d , th e r e are th r e e lin e s d e a lin g w ith th e th r e e p a y men ts th a t w e h a ve b e e n lo ok in g a t a lr e a d y in yo u r ev id e nc e r e c e iv e d fr o m PA1 0 1 6 a n d if y o u g o r ig h t a c r os s to th e o th e r s id e o f th e p a g e , y o u w ill s e e a c o lu mn th e re th a t is h e a d e d C o n tra Ac c o un t N a me s . D o y o u s ee th a t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s . An d w h a t is in d i c a te d th e r e a s th e C o n tr a a c c ou n t n a me fo r th e s e p a y me n ts? IN TER PR ETER : O h . Yo u me a n o n th e . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : 20 IN TER PR ETER : O n th e fa r - r ig h t h an d s id e . I w e n t to th e w r o n g … my a p o lo g ie s . [In te r v e n e s ] A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : O h a p o lo g ie s . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th e y a r e to o fa in t. O h , I a m s o r r y. Ye s , I a m s u r e - I h a v e h i g h l ig h te d t h e m s o m a y b e I c a n r e a d t h e m i n t o t h e r e c o r d . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Page 57 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d a s k w h e t h e r i t . .. ( i n t e r v e n e s ) CHAIRPERSON: Mm. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : C o n fi r ms w h a t y o u h a d t o l d . S o , w h a t th e y r e a d M r X is fo r e a c h o f t h e t h r e e p a y m e n ts r e c e i v e d , th e o n e s t h a t w e h a v e b e e n l o o k in g a t p r e v i o u s ly w h i c h b o r e t h e r e f e r e n c e PA 1 0 1 6 . T h e s p r e a d s h e e t fr o m t h e b a n k i n d ic a te s t h a t th a t p a y m e n t w a s r e c e iv e d fr o m a S t a n d a r d B a n k a c c o u n t o f P r e m i e r A t tr a c ti o n 1 0 1 6 t a ( w h ic h m e a n s tr a d in g a s ) c o . T h a t is a l l t h a t is e n te r e d t h e r e . D o e s i t a c c o r d w i t h y o u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h a t th is p a g e c o n f ir m t h a t t h e p a y m e n t w a s 10 m a d e b y P r e m ie r A t tr a c t io n 1 0 1 6 ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , t h a t is w h a t t h e p e o p l e fr o m t h e C o m m i s s i o n e x p l a in e d o r s a id t o m e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A t th e t i m e t h a t t h e C o m m i s s io n s h o w e d y o u t h is i n fo r m a ti o n a b o u t w h o h a d p a i d th e s e a m o u n t s i n t o y o u r a c c o u n t, d i d y o u k n o w a n y th in g e ls e a b o u t P r e m i e r A t tr a c t io n , w h o i ts o w n e r w a s o r w h o w o r k e d i n th e b u s i n e s s ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : D i d t h e C o m m i s s io n t h e n t e ll y o u w h o t h e y h a v e e s t a b li s h e d w a s t h e o w n e r o f Pr e m i e r A t tr a c ti o n 1 0 1 6 ? 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , t h e y d id te ll m e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w h o d i d t h e y i n d ic a te t h a t w a s ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h e y s a i d o n e o f t h e p a r t n e r s , i t is T h a l e n t e My e n i . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : D o y o u k n o w T h a l e n te M y e n i? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , I d o . Page 58 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H o w d o y o u k n o w h i m ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : H e g r e w u p i n f r o n t o f m e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d in D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 5 a n d e a r ly 2 0 1 6 , d i d y o u h a v e a n y b u s i n e s s d e a l i n g s w i th h i m ? I N T E R P R E T E R : 2 0 1 5 ti ll ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : To e a r ly 2 0 1 6 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ar o u n d t h a t p e r i o d d id y o u h a v e a n y b u s i n e s s d e a li n g s w i th a n e n ti ty c a ll e d P r e m ie r A t tr a c t io n 1 0 1 6 ? 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . C H A I R P E R S O N : Pr e m i e r A t t r a c ti o n . J a , j u s t g e t i t r ig h t . O k a y. M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : M r X , I w o u l d li k e t o r e tu r n t o y o u r a ff id a v i t a t p a r a g r a p h 1 8 b e c a u s e o n t h a t p a g e y o u d e s c r ib e a p r io r d e a li n g y o u h a d w i t h Ms D u d u z il e M y e n i. INTERPRETER: Page? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : P a g e 1 8 . M r X , a t th e b o t t o m o f t h a t p a g e y o u t a lk a b o u t s o m e w o r k t h a t y o u a n d M S M y e n i d id a r o u n d 1 9 9 7 / 1 9 9 8 . C a n y o u p le a s e t e ll u s w h a t t h a t w a s ? 20 M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , w e m e t a t a c o m p a n y w h o h a d b e e n g r o o m e d a s s m a l l b u s in e s s e s i n t h a t c o m p a n y. I t is c a l le d R ic h a r d s B a y M i n e r a ls . C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y. T h e r e w a s a r e f e r e n c e t o y o u n g li o n s o r s o m e t h i n g l ik e t h a t . M r X w h a t w e r e y o u t a lk i n g a b o u t i n r e la t io n t o young lions? Page 59 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r p r e t e r ) : This- it was not amabhubesi. I t is b u s i n e s s e s , s m a ll b u s i n e s s s o . C H A I R P E R S O N : O h o k a y. M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r p r e t e r ) : H e n c e t h e i n t e r p r e t a ti o n w a s t h a t is w h e r e w e w e r e b e i n g g r o o m e d a s s m a l l b u s in e s s e s . C H A I R P E R S O N : O h o k a y. O k a y w e l l . . . ( i n te r v e n e s ) A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Just so that I have it right it was ... ( in t e r v e n e s ) CHAIRPERSON: 10 I t s o u n d e d l ik e ( A f r i c a n L a n g u a g e ) w h ic h w o u l d b e y o u n g l i o n s s o I w a s v e r y i n t e r e s te d . O k a y a l r i g h t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : C a n w e b e c l e a r th is w a s s m a l l b u s in e s s g r o o m i n g , n o t y o u n g li o n g r o o m in g . Is th a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Thank you. And Mr X, you describe over the p a g e o n p a g e 1 9 th e e x t e n d t o w h ic h y o u a n d M s M y e n i w o r k e d t o g e th e r a t t h a t t i m e . C a n y o u d e s c r ib e t h a t? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : c o n s tr u c ti o n i n d u s tr y. O k a y w e w o r k e d t o g e t h e r i n th e She then requested me to help her because I h a d a s k i ll a n d s h e a l s o h a d a c e r ta in s k i ll . S o , s h e r e q u e s te d m e t h a t 20 w e t e a m u p a n d w o r k to g e th e r. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : D id s h e c o m e t o l e a r n o f t h e d e t a i ls o f Is ib o n e l o ’s b a n k a c c o u n t i n th o s e i n t e r a c ti o n s ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h y w a s t h a t ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I w a s w o r k in g u n d e r h e r a s a s u b - Page 60 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 c o n tr a c to r s o w h e n s h e w a s m a k i n g p a y m e n t s t o m e o r t o m y c o m p a n y, she would pay it into my account, Isibonelo account. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a n k y o u . A n d y o u g o o n a t p a r a g r a p h 6 5 t o d e a l w i t h th e t i m e w h e n Is i b o n e l o r e c e iv e d t h e s e p a y m e n ts fr o m P r e m i e r. Yo u h a v e t e s t if i e d a b o u t t h is p r e v i o u s ly b u t I w o u l d j u s t li k e t o g e t th is c l e a r. A t t h a t ti m e d i d Is ib o n e lo h a v e a n y b u s i n e s s r e l a ti o n s h i p w i t h e it h e r Pr e m i e r th e e n t it y o r Mr M y e n i h i m s e l f? INTERPRETER: M e a n in g a t t h e t i m e w h e n s h e w a s w o r k i n g w i t h M s M y e n i? 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : N o , a t t h e ti m e t h a t th e p a y m e n ts w e r e r e c e i v e d fr o m P r e m i e r. M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o , th e r e w e r e n o d e a li n g s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d y o u a r e a b s o l u te ly c e r t a i n a b o u t t h a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , I a m a b s o l u t e l y s u r e . C H A I R P E R S O N : M a y b e w e s h o u ld ju s t s a y P r e m i e r A t tr a c ti o n a t le a s t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . CHAIRPERSON: B e c a u s e w e d o n o t w a n t a n y b o d y w h o r e a d s th e tr a n s c r ip t s t h i n k i n g w e a r e ta lk in g a b o u t a P r e m i e r. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d i n t h is C o m m i s s i o n i t c o u ld b e t h e Pr e m i e r 20 so. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o , th e r e w a s n o n e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A t p a r a g r a p h 6 6 Mr X y o u s t a r t t o t e l l u s i n y o u r a ffi d a v i t w h a t h a p p e n e d a f t e r y o u r e c e iv e d t h e s e p a y m e n ts i n to t h e a c c o u n t . P le a s e c a n y o u t a k e u s t h r o u g h t h a t ? O h a p o l o g i e s . Page 61 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 CHAIRPERSON: I a m s o r r y. B e f o r e t h a t , h a s h e c o n fir m e d h i s k n o w l e d g e o f th e r e l a t i o n s h ip b e t w e e n M r T h a l e n t e M y e n i a n d M s D u d u z il e M y e n i? I f h e h a s n o t m a y b e w e s h o u l d g e t t h a t o u t o f th e w a y. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H e m ig h t n o t h a v e b e c a u s e t h e e v i d e n c e w a s . . . ( i n te r v e n e s ) C H A I R P E R S O N : B e c a u s e i n t h e a ff id a v i t h e h a s g o t th e r e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . CHAIRPERSON: Ja. 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h e e v id e n c e t h a t I t h i n k y o u o n ly te s ti fi e d t o M r X w a s t h a t M r T h a l e n t e M y e n i g r e w u p in fr o n t o f y o u b u t l e t u s c o n fir m w h a t i s y o u r u n d e r s ta n d i n g o f t h e r e l a ti o n s h i p b e tw e e n M s D u d u z il e My e n i a n d M r T h a l e n t e My e n i ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I t is h e r s o n . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a n k y o u . A n d t h e n I w a s g o i n g t o m o v e a t p a g e 1 9 o f y o u r a ff id a v i t t o t h e e x p la n a ti o n y o u g iv e o f w h a t h a p p e n e d a ft e r y o u r e c e iv e d th e s e th r e e p a y m e n t s . P l e a s e c a n y o u ta k e u s through that? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : 20 Maybe my bank account would remind- r e fr e s h m y m i n d . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s c e r t a in ly. M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : If you make reference to my bank account. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o , t h e f ir s t a m o u n t w a s r e c e iv e d i n O c t o b e r o f 2 0 1 5 a n d y o u w i ll fi n d th a t a t p a g e 1 0 8 . Page 62 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , I s e e i t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : N o w th is is t h e f i r s t a m o u n t o f 1 m il li o n r a n d t h a t w a s r e c e iv e d o n t h e 2 4 t h o f O c t o b e r 2 0 1 5 i n t o th e Is i b o n e l o a c c o u n t . W h a t h a p p e n e d a f t e r y o u r e c e iv e d t h a t f ir s t 1 m i ll i o n ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : C a n I t h e n o n c e a g a i n r e fr e s h m y m e m o r y b y g o in g b a c k to t h e s t a t e m e n t a s t o w h a t t h e n h a p p e n e d ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s o f c o u r s e . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : A f t e r r e c e iv i n g t h i s m o n e y. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : B e c a u s e i t h a p p e n e d l o n g ti m e a g o . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : B e c a u s e t h e y a r e t h r e e d i ff e r e n t s t a t e m e n t s . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , I h a v e t o r e fr e s h m y m e m o r y. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A t l e a s t t h e y a r e t h r e e d i ff e r e n t p a y m e n ts . L e t m e b e c l e a r. M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : L e t u s g o b a c k t o p a g e 2 0 o f t h e a ffi d a v it . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m o n p a g e 2 0 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u . A n d y o u w i ll s e e a t t h e b e g in n i n g o f t h a t p a g e a t p a r a g r a p h 6 8 y o u in d ic a t e t h e r e in y o u r a ffi d a v i t ; 20 I n r e s p e c t o f t h e fir s t p a y m e n t o f 1 m il li o n w h ic h w a s r e c e iv e d b y Is ib o n e l o o n 2 4 O c t o b e r 2 0 1 5 t h e f o l lo w i n g tr a n s p ir e d . A n d t h e n i n 6 8 .1 y o u r e c o r d i n y o u r a ffi d a v it ; 68.1 M s M y e n i r e q u e s t e d t h a t I w it h d r a w t h e s e f u n d s a n d d e li v e r them to her in cash. Do you see that? Page 63 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , I s e e t h a t. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H o w d id s h e m a k e t h a t r e q u e s t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I t h i n k it w a s te l e p h o n ic a l ly. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w h a t d i d y o u d o p u r s u a n t t o h e r r e q u e s t ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I t h e n w e n t to th e b a n k t o a p p ly to w i t h d r a w t h i s m o n e y. A n d m a y I C h a ir p l a c e it o n r e c o r d t h a t m y b a n k w i ll n o t a ll o w m e t o w i th d r a w a m il li o n r a n d . S o m a y b e I s h o u l d a ls o m a k e r e f e r e n c e o n c e a g a in t o r e fr e s h o n m y b a n k a c c o u n t a s t o h o w d i d th e y b r e a k i t d o w n . 10 B e c a u s e t h e y w e r e n o t g o i n g to a l lo w m e t o w i t h d r a w a m i ll i o n r a n d . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s , w e w i ll c o m e t o t h a t in a m o m e n t . W h a t I w o u ld j u s t l ik e t o u n d e r s t a n d f ir s t b r o a d ly i s t h e p r o c e s s , r i g h t, b e c a u s e I u n d e r s t a n d t h a t y o u r e v id e n c e t h u s f a r i s , y o u r e c e i v e d th e 1 m il li o n , y o u t h e n w e r e c o n t a c t e d b y M s M y e n i a n d s h e i n d ic a te d s h e w a n t e d y o u t o g iv e h e r c a s h fr o m t h a t a m o u n t . Is t h a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O k a y w e w il l g o t o e a c h o f t h e w i t h d r a w a l s i n a m o m e n t . B u t g e n e r a l ly, h o w w o u l d y o u g e t th e c a s h to M s M y e n i ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r pr e t e r ) : 20 It d i d n o t h a p p e n f o r a n u m b e r o f t i m e s t h a t I w o u l d .. . ( in t e r v e n e s ) I N T E R P R E T E R : I h o p e I g o t i t r i g h t C h a ir. M R X ( t h r o u g h i n t e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t I w o u l d g iv e h e r t h e m o n e y. M o s t o f t h e ti m e s I w o u l d t a k e i t t o h e r h o u s e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w h ic h h o u s e w a s th a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r p r e t e r ) : During the period of 2015 she had two Page 64 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 h o u s e s t h a t s h e s ta y e d a t a n d th e n t h e t h i r d o n e - o k a y, w h a t h a p p e n e d is d u r i n g t h a t p e r i o d s h e h a d a b o u t t h r e e h o u s e s b u t s h e m o v e d o u t fr o m t h e t h ir d o n e a n d h a d n o w tw o h o u s e s th a t s h e li v e d a t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d y o u i n d ic a te d i n y o u r e v i d e n c e a m o m e n t a g o th a t y o u w o u l d d e l iv e r th e m o n e y to t h e h o u s e s . I s t h a t c o r r e c t? INTERPRETER: Is it houses? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : C o r r e c t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H o w w o u l d y o u . . . ( in t e r v e n e s ) 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : A f r i c a n L a n g u a g e . O k a y a lr i g h t . I N T E R P R E T E R : A f r ic a n L a n g u a g e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H o w w o u l d y o u d r o p - o ff t h e c a s h a t th e houses? M R X ( t h r o u g h i n t e r pr e t e r ) : B e c a u s e I w o u l d a ls o u s e h e r o ff ic e - o k a y, b o t h h o u s e s h a v e o ff ic e s s o I w o u l d u s e h e r o ffi c e s s o m e t i m e s . S o , w h a t I w o u l d d o is I w o u ld g o t o th e o ff ic e a n d h i d e i t b u t n o t i n fo r m t h e d o m e s t ic w o r k e r a b o u t m e h i d in g t h e m o n e y. T h e n I w o u l d th e n c a l l h e r a n d i n f o r m h e r. 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I ju s t w a n t t o b r e a k t h a t d o w n a b it . H o w d i d you get access to the houses? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : I h a d a c c e s s to b o t h h o u s e s i n t h e s e n s e t h a t- I h a v e p l a c e d i t o n r e c o r d C h a ir, w e w e r e v e r y c l o s e , o u r r e l a ti o n s h i p w a s v e r y c l o s e . S o , I h a d a c c e s s t o b o t h p r o p e r ti e s . a ls o h a d a c c e s s t o b o th o ff ic e s . I S o , I w o u ld g o a n d h e lp t h e r e a n d Page 65 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 w o r k in t h e o ff ic e s o m e ti m e s s o t h a t is h o w I h a d a c c e s s t o b o t h p r o p e r ti e s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h e n y o u r e v i d e n c e w a s t h a t y o u w o u ld g o in t o t h e o ff ic e a n d y o u w o u ld h i d e th e m o n e y. I s t h a t c o r r e c t? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h y d id y o u d o t h a t? M R X ( t h r o u g h i n t e r pr e t e r ) : Th e r e a s o n w h y I w o u l d h i d e i t , i t w a s I w a n t e d h e r M s M y e n i t o b e t h e o n e w h o i s fi n d i n g t h e m o n e y t h e r e w h e r e I h a v e h i d d e n i t n o t a n y b o d y e ls e . 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h e n y o u i n d i c a t e d y o u w o u l d c o n t a c t h e r. Is t h a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , I w o u l d c a ll h e r a n d t e l l h e r e x a c tl y w h e r e I h a v e h i d d e n t h e m o n e y. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Thank you. A n d I a ls o u n d e r s t o o d y o u r e v i d e n c e e a r l ie r M r X to b e t h a t y o u m i g h t h a v e r e c a ll e d o n e o c c a s i o n w h e r e y o u a c t u a l ly g a v e h e r t h e m o n e y h e r s e l f ? Is th a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : D id t h a t o n ly h a p p e n o n c e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : I d o r e m e m b e r h a n d in g o v e r t h e c a s h t o 20 h e r i n h e r h a n d b u t it m i g h t h a v e b e e n o n c e o r t w ic e . But I do remember doing that. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d c a n w e t a k e it t h a t f o r th e r e s t y o u w o u l d f o ll o w t h i s p r o c e s s w h e r e y o u w o u l d g a i n a c c e s s t o t h e o ffic e a n d t h e n hide it and then contact her later? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . Page 66 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 C H A I R P E R S O N : W o u l d y o u a l w a y s h id e i t i n h e r o ffi c e o r in t h a t p a r t o f t h e h o u s e t h a t s h e u s e d a s h e r o ff ic e ? O r w o u l d y o u s o m e ti m e s h i d e it e l s e w h e r e in t h e h o u s e ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I w o u l d h id e i t in th e p la c e w h e r e w e u s e it t o w o r k w h e r e t h e r e is fi le s . W e c a ll th a t a n o ffic e . CHAIRPERSON: D i d y o u a l w a y s h id e i t in th e s a m e s p o t o r d id y o u c h a n g e t h e s p o t w h e r e y o u h id i t? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I w o u l d c h a n g e t h e s p o t . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A n d d i d y o u s a y t h a t s o m e ti m e s y o u w o u l d h i d e 10 it i n t h e o ffi c e i n t h e o n e h o u s e a n d s o m e t i m e s y o u w o u l d h id e i t in th e o ffic e i n t h e o th e r h o u s e ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : S h e w a s n o t s t a y in g in t h e o t h e r h o u s e . S o , s h e w o u l d s t a y i n t h is o n e h o u s e . S o w h e n s h e is s t a y i n g i n th is h o u s e a n d n o t m o v e h e r c l o t h e s t o th e o t h e r h o u s e a n d s ta y i n g h e r e , w e w o u ld w o r k f r o m t h a t h o u s e o ff ic e . O n ly w h e n s h e m o v e s th e n w e w i ll m o v e t h e o ffi c e a s w e ll . I N T E R P R E T E R : I h o p e I g o t i t r i g h t. C H A I R P E R S O N : S o is th e p o s i ti o n t h a t d u r i n g t h e p e r i o d t h a t w e a r e t a lk in g a b o u t n a m e ly 2 0 1 5 . A t s o m e s ta g e s h e liv e d in o n e h o u s e a n d 20 a t a n o t h e r s t a g e s h e li v e d i n a n o t h e r h o u s e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. S o , it i s n o t t h a t s h e h a d t w o h o u s e s t o w h ic h you had access at the same time. M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : O k a y I w o u ld n o t r e m e m b e r e x a c tl y b e c a u s e it h a p p e n e d a l o n g ti m e a g o . B u t i n 2 0 1 5 s h e w a s s t a y in g in Page 67 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 h o u s e - I w o u ld s a y h o u s e n u m b e r o n e . T h e n w e w o u l d w o r k fr o m h o u s e n u m b e r o n e . D u r i n g t h e p e r i o d o f 2 0 1 5 I t h in k s h e d i d m o v e t h o u g h I d o n o t r e m e m b e r e x a c tly w h e n b u t I t h in k s h e d id m o v e to h o u s e n u m b e r t w o . T h e n w e w o u l d th e n w o r k fr o m h o u s e n u m b e r t w o . S o , t h e o n l y t h i n g is b e c a u s e i t h a p p e n e d l o n g t i m e a g o . S o , t h is tr a n s a c ti o n a s t o w h e th e r th e y h a p p e n e d a t n u m b e r o n e fr o m w h a t p e r i o d u n t il w h e n , I w o u l d n o t b e a b le t o t e l l y o u . B u t i t h a p p e n e d y e s a t h o u s e n u m b e r o n e th e n s h e m o v e d to h o u s e n u m b e r t w o . T h e n it c o n ti n u e d - th e n w e c o n t i n u e d t o w o r k i n h o u s e n u m b e r tw o . 10 CHAIRPERSON: So, would it be correct to say she used or you usedy o u h i d t h e m o n e y i n o n e h o u s e a t a ti m e a n d s h e s t a y e d in o n e h o u s e a t a ti m e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u . I w o u ld th e n l ik e t o t a k e y o u M r X t o t h e s p e c i fic tr a n s a c ti o n s t h a t o c c u r r e d a ft e r y o u r e c e iv e d t h e fi r s t 1 m il li o n o n t h e 2 4 t h o f O c t o b e r 2 0 1 5 . A n d f o r th a t p u r p o s e , t h e f ir s t tr a n s a c ti o n t h a t y o u id e n ti fy in y o u r a ffi d a v i t y o u w i ll fi n d i n t h e b a n k s t a te m e n t a p p e a r i n g a t p a g e 1 2 1 . 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m o n 1 2 1 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o ju s t t o r e m e m b e r w h a t t h e ti m i n g is . On t h e - w e h a v e l o o k e d a t th e b a n k s ta t e m e n t o n t h e 2 4 t h o f O c to b e r 2 0 1 5 y o u r e c e iv e d th e fir s t p a y m e n t o f a m i ll io n r a n d fr o m P r e mi e r A t t r a c ti o n 1 0 1 6 . D o y o u r e c a ll th a t ? I N T E R P R E T E R : Th e d a t e w a s ? Page 68 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 2 4 O c t o b e r. M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , I r e m e m b e r th a t o n e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d th e n a t p a g e 1 2 1 t h e r e is a n e n tr y h i g h l ig h te d t h r e e d a y s la t e r o n t h e 2 7 t h o f O c t o b e r 2 0 1 5 a n d t h a t is a c a s h w i t h d r a w a l o f 5 0 0 0 0 . D o y o u s e e t h a t? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , I s e e i t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h y w a s t h a t m o n e y w i t h d r a w n ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : M s D u d u g a v e m e in s t r u c ti o n to w i t h d r a w it . 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d d i d y o u g i v e t h a t c a s h to h e r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , I d i d . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d c a n I c o n f ir m it w a s i n o n e o f t h e tw o methods that you have described either handing it to her herself or h i d i n g i t a t t h e o ffi c e o f t h e h o u s e s h e o c c u p i e d a t t h e t i m e ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : T h a t is c o r r e c t a lt h o u g h I d o n o t r e m e m b e r e x a c tly h o w I h a n d e d i t o v e r t o h e r b u t i t h a p p e n e d e i th e r w a y. I t i s e it h e r I h id i t o r I g a v e i t t o h e r i n p e r s o n . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a n k y o u . A n d t h e n i f y o u g o to th e n e x t b a n k s t a te m e n t i t is a t p a g e 1 2 3 . 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m o n p a g e 1 2 3 . C H A I R P E R S O N : B e f o r e M s H o f m e y r I a s k t h e n e x t q u e s ti o n . M r X w h o c a m e u p w it h th e i d e a t h a t t h e m o n e y s h o u ld b e h i d d e n in h e r o ff ic e ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : I d i d n o t w a n t t o b e d e la y e d s o I a m t h e o n e w h o c a m e u p w i t h th a t i d e a o f h id i n g it . C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d d i d y o u d is c u s s i t – t h e id e a w i th h e r ? Page 69 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . CHAIRPERSON: Oh you just thought of the idea and you hid the m o n e y a n d y o u t o l d h e r a f te r w a r d s w h e r e y o u h a d h i d d e n i t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : C o r r e c t . C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t s h e w a s f i n e w i t h th a t I h e a r ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : A f te r s h e h a s f o u n d t h e m o n e y I t h i n k s h e was fine with it. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Mr X i f w e th e n g o t o p a g e 1 2 3 . 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Yo u w i ll s e e t h e n e x t d a y, i t is t h e f ir s t h i g h l ig h te d e n t r y o n t h a t b a n k s t a te m e n t . T h e n e x t d a y i s th e 2 8 O c t o b e r 2 0 1 5 t h e r e is a c a s h w i t h d r a w a l f r o m R ic h a r d s B a y o f R31 500.00, do you see that? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s I s e e t h e t r a n s a c t io n . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h y w a s t h a t m o n e y w i t h d r a w n ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : S h e g a v e m e t h e i n s tr u c ti o n , Ms D u d u s h e g a v e m e th e i n s tr u c t io n t o d o s o . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a t i s Ms D u d u M y e n i ? 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : D u d u z i le M y e n i y e s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : C a n I ju s t a s k Mr X a t t h is p o in t d id Ms M y e n i g iv e y o u a n y e x p la n a ti o n f o r w h y s h e w a n te d t h e s e a m o u n ts i n c a s h withdrawn? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : N o – n o s h e d i d n o t a n d I d id n o t a s k h e r a s w e ll . Page 70 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 CHAIRPERSON: A n d m a y b e t h is is t h e t i m e to g o b a c k t o th e b e g in n i n g . P r i o r t o y o u d is c o v e r i n g t h e s e a m o u n ts t h a t h a d c o m e i n to y o u r a c c o u n t fr o m P r e m ie r A t tr a c ti o n h a d a n y b o d y s p o k e n t o y o u t h a t t h e r e w o u l d b e s o m e a m o u n ts t h a t w o u ld b e tr a n s fe r r e d in t o y o u r a c c o u n t – i n to y o u r – o r c o m p a n y ’s a c c o u n t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d w h e n y o u d is c o v e r e d t h e f ir s t p a y m e n t h o w s o o n d i d y o u d is c o v e r i t a ft e r i t h a d b e e n tr a n s f e r r e d i n to y o u r c o m p a n y ’s a c c o u n t if y o u a r e a b l e t o r e m e m b e r ? 10 I N T E R P R E T E R : I a m n o t s u r e i f I g o t th e q u e s t io n . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s l e t m e r e p e a t . I N T E R P R E T E R : Ye s . CHAIRPERSON: W h e n y o u d i s c o v e r e d t h e fir s t p a y m e n t a r e y o u a b l e t o r e m e m b e r h o w l o n g a f te r th e p a y m e n t h a d b e e n m a d e in t o y o u r a c c o u n t t h a t y o u d is c o v e r e d i t? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : I w o u l d g e t t h e r e p o r t f r o m m y o ffi c e th a t a c e r ta in a m o u n t h a s b e e n d e p o s i t e d in t o th e b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t t h e n I w o u ld t h e n a d v is e th e m t h a t w e r e m a i n – c o m e u n ti l s o m e b o d y c a ll s . M a y b e s o m e o n e w i ll c a ll m e a n d i n fo r m m e t h a t t h e y h a v e d e p o s i te d 20 the money into my business account. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y. T h a n k y o u . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d I k n o w i t is a n u m b e r o f y e a r s b a c k M r X b u t d o y o u r e c a ll h o w s o o n a f te r y o u w e r e t o l d t h e f ir s t R 1 m i ll io n h a d b e e n p a id in t o t h e a c c o u n t th a t y o u w e r e c o n t a c t e d b y M s M y e n i ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : W o u l d y o u p l e a s e r e p e a t th e q u e s t io n ? Page 71 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I a m a s k i n g w h e t h e r M r X r e m e m b e r s h o w s o o n a ft e r h e w a s t o ld t h e f ir s t R 1 m i lli o n h a d b e e n p a i d in t o h i s a c c o u n t h e w a s t h e n p h o n e d b y M s M y e n i? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : M a y b e t w o d a y s . INTERPRETER: C a n I j u s t g e t c l a r it y w h e t h e r I w a s l o o k i n g a t t h e a c c o u n t th a t t h e r e is s ti ll t h is m o n e y o r w h e n M s M y e n i t h e n c o n ta c te d him because I am not sure. CHAIRPERSON: Just ask him to repeat his answer? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : O k a y. W h a t h a p p e n e d is w e w o u ld t h e n 10 r e c e i v e t h i s m o n e y in t o t h e b u s in e s s a c c o u n t . I w i ll b e in f o r m e d th a t t h e r e is m o n e y t h a t c a m e i n t o t h e b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t a n d a t t h a t s t a g e w e d o n o t k n o w w h o d e p o s i t e d t h e m o n e y. S o u n t il t h e n le t u s w a i t u n t il I a m b e i n g c o n ta c te d a s to w h o d e p o s i te d t h e m o n e y. T h e w a i ti n g w o u ld b e a b o u t tw o t o t h r e e d a y s . T h e n in d e e d t h e c a l l c a m e . C H A I R P E R S O N : W e ll th e w a y h e p u t i t e a r l i e r o n w a s th a t th e y w o u l d – t h a t a p e r i o d o f a b o u t t w o d a y s o r s o w o u l d p a s s w h i le th e y w e r e w a t c h in g i t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d r e m a i n i n g c a l m I t h i n k w a s th e p r e v i o u s [i n d is t in c t] s o I a m g l a d w e – w e u n d e r s t a n d w h a t w a s h a p p e n in g o n t h e 20 g r o u n d . O k a y t h a n k y o u M r X . O k a y s o w h a t – a n d c e r t a i n l y t h a t ti m e fr a m e a t l e a s t a c c o r d s w i th w h a t w e s e e h a p p e n i n g i n t h e b a n k accounts. B e c a u s e i t c o m e s i n o n t h e 2 4 O c to b e r a n d th e n t h e f ir s t w i t h d r a w a l y o u h a v e t o ld u s a b o u t i s t h e 2 7 O c to b e r. The second w i t h d r a w a l w e w e r e d e a li n g w i t h a t p a g e 1 2 3 w a s o n t h e 2 8 O c to b e r. B u t a l s o o n p a g e 1 2 3 M r X t h e r e i s a tr a n s f e r h i g h l ig h t e d f u r t h e r d o w n Page 72 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 o n t h e p a g e o f R 6 0 0 0 0 0 . 0 0 t o a n a c c o u n t t h a t y o u i d e n ti fy in y o u r a ffi d a v i t a n d y o u h a v e s p o k e n a b o u t p r e v io u s ly w h ic h w a s t h e M o n e y Market account. Can you explain why that R 6 0 0 0 0 0 .0 0 was tr a n s fe r r e d to y o u r M o n e y M a r k e t a c c o u n t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : O k a y lik e I e x p la in e d in i ti a l ly is th a t if t h e r e is a m o n e y th a t d o e s n o t b e lo n g to o u r c o m p a n y – i t i s n o t o u r m o n e y b u t i t is i n o u r b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t w e w ill t h e n m o v e i t t o t h e s i d e , t h a t i s t o th e M o n e y a c c o u n t s o t h a t w e c a n s p e n d o u r o w n m o n e y w i t h o u t i n t e r fe r i n g w i t h th e o t h e r p e o p l e ’s m o n e y. 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h a t w a s d o n e i t a p p e a r s fr o m t h e s t a te m e n t a t p a g e 1 2 3 o n t h e 2 8 O c t o b e r 2 0 1 5 . B u t t h e r e w a s t h e n a w i t h d r a w a l th e fo ll o w i n g d a y o n t h e 2 9 O c t o b e r 2 0 1 5 a n d I w o u l d li k e to g o t o t h a t . Yo u w il l f in d i t a t p a g e 1 2 7 . M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : I a m o n p a g e 1 2 7 . I s e e t h e w i t h d r a w a l tr a n s a c ti o n . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o w h a t i t r e c o r d s t h e r e is a w it h d r a w a l fr o m t h e b u s in e s s a c c o u n t a g a i n th e f o l l o w i n g d a y o f R 2 0 0 0 0 0 . 0 0 a t R i c h a r d s B a y. W h y w a s t h a t m o n e y w i t h d r a w n ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : H e s a y s D u d u z i l e r e q u e s te d th e m o n e y. 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w a s t h e m o n e y g i v e n t o h e r in o n e o f th e t w o w a y s y o u d e s c r i b e d e a r l ie r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u . T h e n w e m o v e a f e w fu r t h e r d a y s f o r w a r d i n ti m e a n d t h a t is r e f l e c te d t h e b a n k s t a te m e n t a t p a g e 1 2 9 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m o n p a g e 1 2 9 . Page 73 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o t h is s t a t e m e n t r e f le c ts t h a t o n t h e 3 N o v e m b e r 2 0 1 5 a n a m o u n t o f R 2 7 0 0 0 . 0 0 w a s w i th d r a w n a t R i c h a r d s B a y, d o y o u s e e t h a t? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s I s e e t h e t r a n s a c t io n . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w h y w a s t h a t a m o u n t w i t h d r a w n ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I t w a s r e q u e s t e d b y S is D u d u . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w a s i t g iv e n t o M s M y e n i ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 10 Th a n k y o u . C h a ir t h e r e a r e a fe w m o r e o f t h e s e tr a n s a c ti o n s r e la t in g t o t h e fir s t R 1 m il li o n . c lo s e t o t h e l u n c h b r e a k . I see that we are S o m a y b e w e c o u l d j u s t t a lk f o r a m o m e n t a b o u t a r r a n g e m e n ts i f t h a t s u i ts ? C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . H o w f a r a r e y o u fr o m f in is h i n g ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I a m v e r y c lo s e . I n e e d to c o m p le t e t h e s e t w o – t h is – t h e s e tr a n s a c ti o n s r e l a t e d t o t h e f i r s t R 1 m i ll i o n . CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d th e n I n e e d t o d e a l s i m p l y w i t h t h e la t e r t w o r e c e i p ts o f a m o u n t s a n d w h a t h a p p e n e d w i th t h e m . So I do not i m a g i n e t a k i n g m o r e t h a n a b o u t tw e n ty m in u te s m a x i m u m . 20 CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th e r e is a n a p p li c a ti o n t h a t is a ls o g o in g t o b e b r o u g h t. W e h a d n o t ic e o f y e s t e r d a y. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Fr o m t h e l a w y e r s r e p r e s e n ti n g Mr M a jo l a . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Page 74 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d I – I h a v e s e e n t h a t th e y h a v e c o m e b a c k t o t h e h e a r i n g r o o m w h i le w e h a v e b e e n … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : H a v i n g M r X ’s e v id e n c e . We would certainly lik e a n o p p o r t u n i ty to u s e t h e l u n c h b r e a k t o r e c e iv e th e a p p l ic a ti o n . C H A I R P E R S O N : L o o k a t t h e a p p li c a t io n . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : L o o k a t it . CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h e n p o s s i b l y w e c a n d e a l w i t h it a f t e r w e 10 c o m p le t e Mr X ’s e v i d e n c e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . N o t h a t is f i n e . S o w e – w e s h o u ld a d j o u r n n o w. S h o u l d w e r e s u m e a t t w o o r s h o u l d w e r e s u m e a li t tl e l a t e r t h a n t w o ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I think maybe quarter past two would be adequate. C H A I R P E R S O N : M a y b e q u a r te r p a s t t w o . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : J u s t s o t h a t w e c a n … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Pr o p e r ly c o n s id e r t h e a p p li c a t io n . C H A I R P E R S O N : To g iv e m o r e ti m e . 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h e n t h e p r o p o s a l w o u l d b e t o c o m p l e te Mr X ’s e v i d e n c e a n d th e n d e a l w i t h t h e a p p l ic a ti o n . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y a lr i g h t . I t h i n k c o u n s e l f o r Mr M a j o l a d o e s n o t h a v e a p r o b le m w i th t h a t ? A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : N o t a t a ll C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . T h a n k y o u . Page 75 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : N o t a t a ll C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Okay we – we are going to adjourn now a n d t h e n w e w i ll r e s u m e a t q u a r te r p a s t t w o . S o M r X d o c o m e b a c k a t quarter past two. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : W e a d jo u r n . R E G I S T R A R : Al l r i s e . INQUIRY ADJOURNS INQUIRY RESUMES 10 CHAIRPERSON: I t h i n k w e m u s t d is p o s e o f t h e p o s t p o n e m e n t a p p lic a ti o n … A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : C e r t a i n l y C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Because I do not need any argument and I understand you do not oppose. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W e d o n o t o p p o s e it , C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. C o u n s e l f o r M r M a j o l a , d o y o u w a n t to c o m e f o r w a r d to t h e p o d i u m a n d m o v e th e a p p lic a ti o n fr o m h e r e ? A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : If i t s o … C H A I R P E R S O N : C o m e h e r e , ja . 20 A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : S u i t s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : J a . I u n d e r s t a n d w h e n y o u s p e a k f r o m a n y w h e r e e ls e t h e r e is a c h a ll e n g e w i t h r e c o r d i n g a n d t r a n s c r i b i n g o r th e r e c o r d in g , ja . ADV FRANCOIS ROETS: Thank you. C h a ir, th e o r i g i n a l N o tic e o f M o t io n w a s i n f a c t p r e s e n t e d t o t h e r e l e v a n t o ff ic i a l s . Page 76 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . ADV FRANCOIS ROETS: The prayers are … CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : In m y v ie w w i t h r e s p e c t … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : C o m p r e h e n s i v e l y s e t o u t th e r e i n … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Ye s . A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : A n d i t is s u p p o r t e d b y t h e … CHAIRPERSON: Hm. 10 ADV FRANCOIS ROETS: Supporting a ffi d a v i t of th e I n s tr u c t in g Attorney of record. CHAIRPERSON: Ye s . Ye s a n d b a s i c a l ly I u n d e r s t a n d th a t o n e , b e c a u s e M r M a jo la r e c e iv e d t h e a ff id a v i t o f M r X o n ly y e s t e r d a y. Is t h a t r ig h t ? ADV FRANCOIS ROETS: Indeed so. I n f a c t I s a w i t a f te r 7 o ’ c lo c k la s t n i g h t … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : F o r t h e f ir s t ti m e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . H e - h e n e e d s m o r e t i m e … 20 A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : In d e e d s o . C H A I R P E R S O N : To l o o k a t i t a n d th e n to g iv e in s tr u c ti o n s , b u t a ls o h e f e ll il l … A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : In … C H A I R P E R S O N : T h i s - to d a y o r s ti ll y e s t e r d a y. I a m n o t s u r e . Fr o m t h e a ffi d a v i t i t s e e m s th a t h e w a s s e e n b y a d o c t o r o r h a s b e e n Page 77 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 h o s p i ta li s e d s in c e t h i s m o r n i n g o r s in c e y e s t e r d a y. A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : Ye s . I w a s a d v i s e d … CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : If m y m e m o r y s e r v e s m e w e l l … CHAIRPERSON: Hm. A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : C h a ir. T h a t h e - h e f e l l il l y e s t e r d a y … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Ye s . Ye s . A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : A n d it is a r e s u l t o f th a t th a t w e m a n a g e d t o p r o c u r e t h i s m e d ic a l c e r t if ic a t e w it h … 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : T h e v i e w t o p r e s e n t in g s a m e t o d a y … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : To y o u r g o o d s e l f , C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: No. T h a t is fi n e . I g r a n t t h e a p p li c a t io n fo r t h e p o s tp o n e m e n t o f t h e h e a r i n g o f M r M a jo l a ’s e v i d e n c e to a d a t e t o b e d e t e r m i n e d . S o t h e C o m m i s s i o n ’s l e g a l t e a m w il l b e i n t o u c h w i th y o u about a new date. A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : I a m t r u ly i n d e b t e d t o y o u - t o y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. 20 ADV FRANCOIS ROETS: Thank you so much. C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a n k y o u . O k a y. A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : C h a ir, I k n o w … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : I n t h e H ig h C o u r t I d o n o t h a v e t o a s k t o b e excused … Page 78 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : B u t I t h i n k a s a c o u r te s y g e s t u r e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : I w il l n e v e r t h e l e s s … CHAIRPERSON: No, no. A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : As k C h a ir if I m a y p l e a s e b e e x c u s e d . C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u a r e e x c u s e d . A D V F R A N C O I S R O E T S : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a n k y o u . Th a n k y o u . 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. I f it i s c o n v e n i e n t w e c a n p r o c e e d w i t h M r X ’s e v id e n c e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . L e t - le t u s p r o c e e d . Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Mr X , c a n y o u h e a r u s ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u . Mr X , b e f o r e w e b r o k e fo r t h e l u n c h a d j o u r n m e n t w e w e r e a t p a g e 2 2 o f y o u r a ffi d a v i t … M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : O k a y. Ye s . I a m o n p a g e 2 2 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w e h a d d e a l t w i th th e c a s h w it h d r a w a l o f R 2 7 0 0 0 , 0 0 w h ic h o c c u r r e d o n 3 N o v e m b e r 2 0 1 5 a n d t h a t i s r e f e r r e d t o 20 in p a r a g r a p h 6 8 . 11 o n p a g e 2 2 … M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I s e e t h a t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h e n w e - I w o u ld l ik e u s to m o v e t o paragraph 68.12 and I am going to take you to the relevant bank s t a te m e n t . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . Page 79 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : N o w i n t h a t p a r a g r a p h y o u d e s c r ib e h o w s o m e o f t h e m o n e y th a t y o u p r e v i o u s l y te s te d y o u h a d m o v e d to t h e M o n e y M a r k e t a c c o u n t th e n c o m e s b a c k in t o t h e b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t a n d I w o u ld lik e to ju s t t a k e y o u t o t h a t r e l e v a n t b a n k s t a t e m e n t … M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : O k a y. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : your evidence A n d t h e n y o u b o u g h t b a c k - a s I u n d e r s ta n d at paragraph 68.12 - you bought an amount of R 2 8 0 0 0 0 ,0 0 b a c k fr o m t h e M o n e y M a r k e t in t o th e c u r r e n t a c c o u n t . Is that correct? 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d th e n t h e r e w a s a w i th d r a w a l a f e w d a y s la t e r i n O c t o b e r 2 0 1 5 . I w o u ld lik e t o ta k e y o u to t h e s ta t e m e n t t h a t r e fl e c ts it . T h a t is a t p a g e 1 - 2 - 7 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m o n p a g e 1 - 2 - 7 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : U n f o r tu n a te ly, I m a d e a n e r r o r th e r e . C a n w e g o t o p a g e 1 - 3 - 1 p le a s e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m o n p a g e 1 - 3 - 1 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O k a y. S o t h is is t h e b a n k s ta t e m e n t t h a t r e fl e c ts a s I u n d e r s ta n d y o u r a ffi d a v i t t h e m o n e y th a t c o m e s b a c k f r o m 20 y o u r M o n e y M a r k e t a c c o u n t in t o th e b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t a n d y o u w i ll s e e o n t h a t p a g e h ig h l i g h t e d i n y e l lo w t h a t o n 6 N o v e m b e r a n a m o u n t o f R 2 8 0 0 0 0 ,0 0 w a s tr a n s fe r r e d fr o m a n d t h e n th e r e is a lo n g a c c o u n t number there. T h a t w a s t h e p r e v io u s a c c o u n t n u m b e r w e w e r e lo o k i n g a t w h e n th e r e w e r e tr a n s a c ti o n s w i t h th e b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t - w i th t h e Page 80 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M o n e y M a r k e t a c c o u n t . I s t h a t c o r r e c t? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I r e m e m b e r th is . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : And just to c o n fir m . That was on 6 N o v e m b e r 2 0 1 5 . Is t h a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h e n i f y o u g o o v e r t o p a g e 1 - 3 - 3 . Th a t is t h e fo ll o w i n g s ta t e m e n t f o r t h e s a m e p e r io d a n d w h a t th e s t a te m e n t r e fl e c ts i s th a t t h e o n th e s a m e d a y - 6 N o v e m b e r 2 0 1 5 - t h e r e w a s a c a s h w i t h d r a w a l a t R ic h a r d s B a y o f R 2 0 0 0 0 0 , 0 0 . D o y o u s e e t h a t? 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I s e e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h y w a s t h a t … ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h y w a s t h a t a m o u n t w i t h d r a w n ? MR X (through interpreter): D u d u z il e r e q u e s t e d th a t I w i th d r a w t h e m o n e y o n h e r o r d e r. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d t h a t is r e f e r e n c e to M s D u d u z il e M y e n i . Is that correct? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 20 Thank you and then th e r e are fu r t h e r tr a n s a c ti o n s th a t o c c u r o n 2 3 N o v e m b e r 2 0 1 5 . M r X , I a m n o w r e f e r r i n g t o p a g e 2 3 o f y o u r a ff id a v i t … M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m o n p a g e 2 3 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w h a t y o u d e t a i l i n t h a t p a r a g r a p h is a g a i n m o n e y m o v in g b a c k f r o m t h e M o n e y M a r k e t a n d t h e n f u n d s b e i n g withdrawn. I w o u l d l ik e to t a k e y o u to t h e r e le v a n t b a n k s ta t e m e n ts . Page 81 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 Yo u w i ll fi n d t h e s ta t e m e n t a t p a g e 1 - 3 - 5 o f E X H I B I T D D 3 1 . INTERPRETER: Page? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 1 - 3 - 5 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m o n 1 - 3 - 5 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : T h a n k y o u a n d t h e n y o u s e e th e r e a r e tw o l in e s h i g h l ig h te d t h e r e o f th e tr a n s a c ti o n s i n y e l l o w. T h e fir s t o n e is a tr a n s fe r i n t o t h e b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t f r o m th a t a c c o u n t t h a t w e h a v e p r e v i o u s ly i d e n ti f ie d a s t h e M o n e y M a r k e t . W h a t w a s th e a m o u n t t h a t w a s t r a n s f e r r e d o n 2 3 N o v e m b e r i n t o th e a c c o u n t? T h a n k y o u . 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : R 2 0 0 0 0 ,0 0 a n d R 1 0 0 0 0 , 0 0 a s w e ll . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . T h e - t h e 1 0 0 0 0 is r e f le c t e d a g a in s t a d e s c r ip t io n th a t s a y s : “ C a s h w i th d r a w a l a t R i c h a r d s B a y. ” Do you see that? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I s e e t h a t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h y w a s t h e R 1 0 0 0 0 , 0 0 w i t h d r a w n ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : I t is - i t is - i t c a n b e m y m o n e y o r th e b a l a n c e o f t h e m o n e y w h i c h w a s r e m a in in g i n th e M o n e y M a r k e t account. 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : D o I u n d e r s t a n d y o u t o n o t b e c e r ta in a b o u t w h e t h e r t h i s R 1 0 0 0 0 , 0 0 w a s w i t h d r a w n f o r y o u r o w n p u r p o s e s o r to g iv e t o M s M y e n i? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I d o n o t r e m e m b e r. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Thank you and then if we go over to page 1 - 3 - 7 . Yo u w il l s e e t h e r e th a t t h e r e a r e t w o tr a n s a c t i o n s r e fl e c t e d o n Page 82 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 2 5 N o v e m b e r t w o d a y s la t e r t h a n t h e t r a n s a c t io n w e w e r e ju s t l o o k i n g a t a n d w h a t a p p e a r s to h a p p e n o n th is p a g e i s a g a i n a t r a n s f e r fr o m t h e a c c o u n t w e h a v e i d e n t if i e d a s th e M o n e y M a r k e t a c c o u n t . So an amount comes in t o your b u s in e s s account of R 1 0 0 0 0 0 ,0 0 a n d i m m e d i a te ly t h e r e a f t e r t h e r e is a c a s h w i t h d r a w a l o f R 1 0 0 0 0 0 ,0 0 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I s e e b o t h e n tr i e s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w h a t w a s th e r e a s o n f o r th e w i t h d r a w a l o f t h e R 1 0 0 0 0 0 ,0 0 c a s h o n 2 5 N o v e m b e r 2 0 1 5 ? 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I t w a s r e q u e s t e d b y S is D u d u z il e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A r e y o u c e r t a i n a b o u t t h a t c a s h w it h d r a w a l h a v i n g b e e n a w i th d r a w a l th a t w a s r e q u e s t e d b y M s M y e n i ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I a m s u r e . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w h a t m a k e s y o u s u r e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : L o o k i n g a t t h e a m o u n t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I - I u n d e r s to o d y o u r te s t i m o n y p r e v i o u s l y t o b e t h a t y o u w o u l d s o m e t i m e s h a v e a n e e d f o r s m a l le r c a s h a m o u n t s i n y o u r b u s i n e s s . I t h i n k y o u s a i d u p t o a r o u n d R 1 0 0 0 0 , 0 0 , b u t a m o u n ts g r e a t e r t h a n t h a t w o u l d b e a m o u n ts t h a t w e r e e i t h e r r e q u e s t e d b y 20 M r M a j o l a o r Ms M y e n i i n th is c a s e . I s t h a t c o r r e c t , Mr X ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : M r X , I w o u l d t h e n l ik e t o m o v e t o t h e s e c o n d t w o p a y m e n ts t h a t I s i b o n e l o r e c e iv e d fr o m P r e m i e r A t tr a c ti o n a n d f o r t h a t p u r p o s e w e g o t o p a g e 2 4 o f y o u r a ff i d a v i t . I N T E R P R E T E R : P r e m ie r … Page 83 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A t t r a c t i o n . I N T E R P R E T E R : P r e m ie r A t tr a c t i o n . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : t h e c h r o n o l o g y. Ye s . N o w M r X j u s t t o o r ie n t a t e o u r s e lv e s i n Yo u w i ll r e c a ll th a t th e fir s t p a y m e n t f r o m P r e m i e r A t tr a c t io n w a s r e c e iv e d in O c t o b e r 2 0 1 5 a n d w h a t w e h a v e ju s t d e a l t w i t h i n y o u r e v i d e n c e i s t h e s e r i e s o f w i th d r a w a ls i n c a s h th a t y o u m a d e a ft e r r e c e iv in g t h a t a m o u n t a n d w h ic h y o u h a v e in d ic a t e d w e r e t h e n h a n d e d o v e r to M s M y e n i e i t h e r h e r s e l f o r a t t h e o ff ic e o f h e r h o m e . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . 10 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : S o n o w I w o u l d lik e t o m o v e to t h e s e c o n d p a y m e n t t h a t Is ib o n e l o r e c e iv e d fr o m P r e m i e r A t t r a c ti o n a n d t h a t w a s a p a y m e n t w e l o o k e d a t t h e b a n k s t a te m e n t p r e v i o u s ly th a t w a s r e c e iv e d in Is i b o n e l o ’s b a n k a c c o u n t o n 11 D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 5 . Do you remember that? I N T E R P R E T E R : 11 D e c e m b e r 2 0 … ? A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 1 5 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I r e m e m b e r th a t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : And as you record at page 24 it was in an a m o u n t o f R 1 1 5 0 0 0 0 ,0 0 . I s t h a t c o r r e c t? 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : N o w p le a s e te ll u s w h a t h a p p e n e d a ft e r y o u r e c e i v e d th is a m o u n t in t h e Is ib o n e l o a c c o u n t ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : I - I th i n k s h e d i d c a l l m e a f t e r th e m o n e y w a s d e p o s it e d in t o t h e a c c o u n t , b e c a u s e i f I r e m e m b e r w e ll i t w a s n o t r e fl e c t in g e x a c tly w h e r e t h is a m o u n t w a s c o m in g fr o m . Page 84 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w h a t d i d s h e s a y i n th a t c o n v e r s a ti o n ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : S h e s a i d s h e w il l p r o v id e m e w i th t h e b a n k i n g d e t a ils w h e r e I a m s u p p o s e d t o tr a n s f e r t h is m o n e y t o . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d h o w d i d s h e p r o v id e th o s e d e t a i ls ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I f i t w a s n o t v i a t h e S M S s h e d i d g i v e m e t h e b a n k i n g d e t a ils t e l e p h o n i c a lly. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d w h a t d i d y o u d o a ft e r y o u r e c e iv e d t h o s e d e t a i ls ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r p r e t e r ) : I t h e n g a v e t h e m t o m y s e c r e t a r y fo r h e r 10 t o t h e n d e p o s i t o r tr a n s fe r t h e m o n e y t o t h a t a c c o u n t. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : L e t u s l o o k a t t h e b a n k s t a t e m e n t t h a t r e fl e c ts t h a t d e p o s it . Yo u w i ll fi n d t h a t a t p a g e 1 - 3 - 9 . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m o n p a g e 1 - 3 - 9 . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : M r X , y o u w il l s e e h i g h l ig h t e d th e r e i n y e ll o w a g a in is a t r a n s f e r o u t o f th e Is ib o n e l o a c c o u n t o f R 1 m il li o n o n 11 D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 5 a n d t h a t w a s th e s a m e d a y t h a t y o u r e c e iv e d t h e p a y m e n t w e l o o k e d a t p r e v io u s ly o f R 1 1 5 0 0 0 0 ,0 0 . Is th a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I s e e t h a t tr a n s a c ti o n . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 20 N o w t h e d e s c r i p t io n o n t h is p a y m e n t o n th e bank statement reads as follows: “ I B p a y m e n t t o J a c o b Z u m a F o u n d a ti o n . ” A n d t h e n a n a c c o u n t n u m b e r. D o y o u s e e t h a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . I s e e t h a t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Mr X , o n t h e d a y t h a t t h i s p a y m e n t w a s m a d e in t o th e J a c o b Z u m a F o u n d a ti o n a c c o u n t t h a t w a s 11 D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 5 . Page 85 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 D i d y o u k n o w w h o t h o s e m o n i e s w e r e b e i n g p a i d to ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . I d i d n o t k n o w. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : W h e n d i d y o u f ir s t l e a r n th a t t h e m i ll io n R a n d t h a t w a s p a i d o n 11 D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 5 w a s i n f a c t p a i d t o th e J a c o b Z u m a Foundation? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I t w a s w h e n I w a s a p p r o a c h e d b y t h is C o m m i s s i o n a s t h e y w e r e i n v e s ti g a ti n g a b o u t th e s e fu n d s . I did not k n o w a t t h e ti m e a n d t h e n t h e y w e n t t o d o i n v e s t ig a ti o n s a n d c a m e b a c k a n d g a v e it a r e p o r t th a t i t w a s t h e J a c o b Zu m a F u n d . 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : W h e n - w h e n M s My e n i g a v e y o u t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r t o w h ic h y o u w e r e t o tr a n s f e r t h i s a m o u n t . D i d s h e n o t t e l l y o u w h o th e h o l d e r o f th e a c c o u n t w a s ? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : I t h in k s h e o n ly g a v e u s t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r w i th o u t t h e h o ld e r o r th e n a m e o f t h e h o l d e r o f t h e a c c o u n t a n d t h e n m y s e c r e ta r y d i d th e n p r o c e s s th e a c c o u n t o r p u n c h t h e n u m b e r s , b u t it is p o s s i b le t h a t s h e d id s e e th e n a m e o f th e h o ld e r o f t h e a c c o u n t , b u t s h e d id n o t a s k m e . S h e m i g h t h a v e s e e n w h o is t h e h o ld e r - th e n a m e o f th e h o l d e r o f th e a c c o u n t . 20 CHAIRPERSON: Do you remember whether Ms Myeni told you the a c c o u n t n u m b e r t e l e p h o n i c a ll y o r w h e t h e r s h e m e t w it h y o u a n d g a v e you a document or piece of paper? M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : I - I d o n o t r e m e m b e r, b u t t h e r e w o u l d b e two ways that she would do it. I f i t w a s n o t d u r in g t h e t e le p h o n e c o n v e r s a ti o n s h e w o u ld a s k m e t o b r i n g a p e n a n d th e n to w r it e - f o r m e Page 86 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 t o w r i te d o w n th e a c c o u n t n u m b e r. T h e n it w o u l d b e v i a a n S M S . C H A I R P E R S O N : W a s i t - d id s h e d o th e s a m e t h i n g w h e n s h e g a v e y o u o th e r a c c o u n t n u m b e r s ? S h e - d id s h e g i v e y o u o n ly a c c o u n t n u m b e r s a n d d i d n o t te ll y o u t h e i d e n t it y o f th e a c c o u n t n u m b e r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : I d o n o t r e m e m b e r h e r g iv i n g m e th e n a m e o f th e h o ld e r o f t h e a c c o u n t . I d o n o t r e m e m b e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : In e a c h c a s e ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : I a m - I a m . I d id n o t g e t t h a t C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. Just repeat your answer? 10 M R X ( t h r o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : O k a y. It w o u l d h a p p e n in th is w a y C h a ir. D u r i n g t h e te le p h o n e c o n v e r s a t io n s h e w o u l d s a y to m e g e t a p e n . I w i ll g iv e t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r o r s h e w o u l d f o r w a r d i t t o m e . I N T E R P R E T E R : C a n I j u s t g e t c l a r i ty w h e n s h e - h e s a y s fo r w a r d i t t o me how? C H A I R P E R S O N : ( N o a u d ib l e r e p l y ) . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Via S M S . CHAIRPERSON: Ye s . So are you saying to the best of your r e c o l l e c ti o n w h e n e v e r s h e g a v e y o u a n a c c o u n t n u m b e r i n w h ic h t o tr a n s fe r m o n e y o r t o p u t m o n e y s h e w o u ld j u s t g i v e y o u t h e a c c o u n t 20 n u m b e r w it h o u t g i v e y o u th e n a m e o f t h e a c c o u n t h o l d e r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . T h a t is w h a t I a m s a y i n g . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . W e r e y o u n o t k e e n t o fi n d o u t fr o m h e r w h o th e a c c o u n t h o l d e r w o u l d b e i n e a c h c a s e o r w a s i t b e c a u s e y o u w e r e g o in g t o f in d o u t a n y w a y w h e n y o u m a k e t h e d e p o s i t o r tr a n s f e r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : O k a y. I am - I am not good with Page 87 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 t e c h n o l o g y b a s ic a ll y C h a ir. C o m p u t e r a n d i n t e r n e t I a m n o t g o o d a t lik e I s a i d in t e n t i o n a l ly. S o w h e n t h e s e t h i n g s w o u l d c o m e to m e I w o u ld t h e n h a n d o v e r t h e s e t h i n g s t o t h e c h i l d r e n a n d t h e n a s t o h o w t h e y a r e c h a n g i n g i t w h e n e v e r t h e y o n ly h a v e t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r. I w o u ld n o t k n o w t h a t. CHAIRPERSON: W h e n y o u r e f e r t o th e c h i l d r e n a r e y o u r e fe r r i n g t o y o u r s e c r e ta r y a n d y o u r d a u g h t e r ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : T h a t i s c o r r e c t . CHAIRPERSON: 10 Well the fact that you are not or you would not be a b l e t o u s e t e c h n o l o g y t o g e t t h e n a m e s o f t h e a c c o u n t h o ld e r s . I w o u ld h a v e i m a g in e d w o u l d h a v e m a d e y o u m o r e c u r i o u s a n d a s k h e r who the account holder was. M R X ( t hr o u g h i n t e r pr e t e r ) : W e l l I - I t h i n k m y - my s e c r e t a r y a s s h e w a s p r o c e s s i n g t h e p a y m e n t o r tr a n s fe r r i n g t h e m o n e y s h e w a s a b l e t o s e e w h o i s th e a c c o u n t h o l d e r - th e n a m e o f t h e a c c o u n t h o l d e r, b u t s h e d i d n o t c o m e b a c k to m e t o r e p o r t to m e t h a t t h is is w h a t s h e s a w a s s h e w a s p r o c e s s i n g o r tr a n s f e r r i n g t h e m o n e y. CHAIRPERSON: And you - and you did not ask her? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : N o . I t w a s h e r m o n e y a n y w a y. 20 CHAIRPERSON: No, no. I mean you did not ask your secretary who t h e a c c o u n t h o l d e r w a s in e a c h c a s e . M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r p r e t e r ) : N o . I d i d n o t a s k h e r a s t o w h o w a s o r w h o is t h e a c c o u n t h o l d e r. T h e o n ly t h i n g I w a n t e d t o k n o w is t h a t - is t h e tr a n s a c t i o n fi n a li s e d . Is th e m o n e y tr a n s fe r r e d ? T h e n - t h a t i s a l l that I asked and she said yes. Page 88 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 CHAIRPERSON: I g e t th e i m p r e s s i o n t h a t y o u w e r e n o t s o in t e r e s te d in k n o w i n g w h o t h e m o n e y w a s b e i n g p a id t o . Is t h a t r ig h t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h i nt e r pr e t e r ) : C o r r e c t , b e c a u s e i t w a s p a in f u l o r h u r t f u l t o s e e t h e b i g m o n e y c o m in g i n t o o u r a c c o u n t a n d t h e n th e n e x t t h i n g i t is g o in g o u t o f y o u r a c c o u n t . S o f o r m e i t w a s li k e l e t i t g o . I d o n o t w a n t to s e e i t . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. T h a n k y o u . M s H o f m e y r. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a n k y o u M r X . T h e - I w o u l d li k e t o d e a l w i th t h e tr e a t m e n t o f th e s e c o n d - w e ll t h e fi n a l o f th e t h r e e p a y m e n ts t h a t 10 w e r e r e c e iv e d fr o m P r e mi e r A t tr a c t io n a n d y o u d e a l w i t h t h a t a t p a g e 2 4 o f y o u r a ffi d a v i t . A t t h e b o t to m o f t h a t p a g e y o u in d i c a t e th a t : “ O n 2 Fe b r u a r y 2 0 1 6 Is i b o n e lo r e c e iv e d a n a m o u n t o f R 1 m il li o n fr o m P r e m ie r … ” F o r t h e r e c o r d w e a r e g o i n g t o r e f e r t o i t a s Pr e m i e r A t tr a c t io n a n d y o u g o o n a n d s a y : “ … a n d u p o n i n s tr u c ti o n s fr o m M s M y e n i a n a m o u n t o f R 8 0 0 0 0 0 , 0 0 w a s p a i d o u t t o t h e J a c o b Zu m a F o u n d a t i o n o n t h e s a m e d a y. ” I w o u l d l ik e u s t o g o t o t h a t b a n k s ta t e m e n t - i f w e m a y. 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : CHAIRPERSON: The page is? Th e p a g e is 1 4 3 . D o y o u c o n f ir m w h a t h a s b e e n s a i d t o y o u a s c o m i n g out of the last paragraph at page 24 Mr X?. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: C o n f ir m e d . O k a y. Page 89 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : MR X 124? 143. ( t hr o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : 143, apologies, 143. I am on page 143. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Mr X y o u w i ll b e h a p p y to h e a r th a t w e a r e o n t h e la s t p a g e o f t h e l a s t a n n e x u r e o f y o u r a ffi d a v i t s o th e e n d i s c l o s e . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : O k a y. M r X o n t h is p a g e y o u w i ll r e c a l l w e l o o k e d a t t h e b a n k s t a te m e n t p r e v i o u s l y w h e n th e m il li o n r a n d c o m e s i n to th e 10 a c c o u n t , t h a t b a n k s t a t e m e n t r e f l e c te d t h a t it c a m e in t o t h e a c c o u n t o n t h e 2 n d o f F e b r u a r y, a n d i t a p p e a r s fr o m t h is s t a te m e n t t h a t o n th e 4 t h o f Fe b r u a r y, th a t ’s t w o d a y s la t e r, a n a m o u n t o f R 8 0 0 0 0 0 w a s p a i d o u t a n d th e d e s c r ip t io n th is ti m e is I B p a y m e n t to J G Z F, d o y o u s e e t h a t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s I s e e t h a t tr a n s a c ti o n . C a n y o u te ll u s a g a in h o w it c a m e a b o u t th a t a ft e r r e c e iv i n g th e R 1 m ill i o n o n th e 2 n d o f F e b r u a r y fr o m P r e m i e r A t tr a c t io n th is a m o u n t o f R 8 0 0 0 0 0 w a s p a i d o u t t o t h e J a c o b Z u m a Foundation? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : 20 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I g o t th e i n s tr u c ti o n f r o m M s D u d u . A n d d i d i t h a p p e n i n th e s a m e w a y a s t h e p r e v i o u s o n e w h e r e s h e c a ll e d y o u t e l e p h o n ic a lly ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . A n d a g a i n h o w d i d s h e r e l a y t h e d e t a i ls t o y o u , d i d s h e g iv e y o u j u s t t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r o r d i d s h e i d e n ti fy w h o t h e a m o u n t w o u ld b e p a i d to ? Page 90 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : S h e o n ly g a v e m e t h e a c c o u n t n u m b e r o n ly. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d a t t h e ti m e d i d y o u h a v e a n y k n o w l e d g e t h a t t h i s p a y m e n t o f R 8 0 0 0 0 0 w a s g o in g t o b e m a d e t o t h e J a c o b Z u m a Foundation? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : No. M r X a t t h e t i m e t h a t t h e R 1 m i ll io n w a s p a i d i n December of 2015 to the Jacob Zuma Foundation and the R800 000 w a s p a id i n F e b r u a r y 2 0 1 6 t o t h e J a c o b Z u m a F o u n d a t i o n d id y o u h a v e 10 a n y i n te n ti o n t o d o n a te R 1 . 8 m il li o n to t h e J a c o b Zu m a F o u n d a ti o n ? MR X (through Interpreter): I h a v e n e v e r d o n a t e d m o n e y to J a c o b Z u m a Fo u n d a t io n . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : CHAIRPERSON: Th a n k y o u . H a v e y o u e v e r b e e n a s k e d t o m a k e a d o n a ti o n t o t h e J a c o b Zu m a F o u n d a ti o n ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: No because I had no money to do so. Ye s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : M r X I w o u l d n o w lik e to d e a l w i th t h e e v id e n c e t h a t t h is C o m m is s i o n h e a r d y e s te r d a y Mr Ta l e n th e M y e n i a n d I w o u l d 20 lik e t o h a v e y o u r r e s p o n s e t o s o m e o f t h a t e v id e n c e . I w il l a s k y o u a s e r ie s o f q u e s t io n s a b o u t i t . CHAIRPERSON: B e fo r e y o u d o s o M s H o f m e y r i f y o u a r e a b l e t o n o w y o u c o u l d j u s t l e t u s k n o w w h a t t h e to t a l is t h a t w a s r e c e i v e d fr o m P r e m i e r A t tr a c ti o n b y I s i b o n e l o , is i t t h r e e tr a n s a c ti o n s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I t i s t h r e e tr a n s a c ti o n s . Page 91 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 CHAIRPERSON: Ye s , a n d t h e n h e c a n c o n f ir m i t , o r y o u c a n d o t h a t la t e r, a s lo n g a s y o u a r e t a k in g s o m e s t e p s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : C h a ir l e t m e – in d e e d , c a n I j u s t i n te r p o s e t h e r e b e c a u s e y o u m a d e a p r e v i o u s r e q u e s t t h a t w e a ls o d o a t r a c k i n g o f t h e to t a l a m o u n ts r e c e i v e d p u r s u a n t t o t h e a r r a n g e m e n t o f Mr M a jo l a . W h a t I w a n t e d t o p r o p o s e in t h a t r e g a r d is t h e r e a r e a n u m b e r o f tr a n s a c t i o n s th a t w e n e e d to c a lc u la t e , a n d a ls o th e r e h a v e b e e n o n e o r t w o r e s p e c ts i n w h ic h Mr M a j o l a h a s c l a r i f ie d i n h i s e v id e n c e t o d a y t h a t a m o u n ts t h a t h e in h is a ffi d a v it m ig h t h a v e i n d ic a t e d t h a t h e 10 t h o u g h t w e r e w i t h d r a w a ls f o r M r M a j o l a o r M s M y e n i h e n o w r e c a l ls might have been withdrawals for himself. M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Ye s . S o w h a t w e w a n te d to p r o p o s e i n t h is r e g a r d it is a n i m p o r t a n t p i e c e o f t h e p u z z l e a n d w e w o u ld l ik e t o t a k e a b i t o f ti m e a f te r t o d a y t o p u t t o g e t h e r a fu ll y c o m p r e h e n s iv e s u p p l e m e n t a r y a ffi d a v i t th a t Mr X d e p o s e s t o , s o th a t h e c a n h a v e a n o p p o r t u n i ty t o d o t h e fu ll ta ll y, d o t h e f u ll a c c o u n t s o t h a t t h e r e i s o n e r e c o r d o f i t, o f w h a t w a s p a i d o n i n s tr u c ti o n a n d w h a t w a s o th e r w i s e u ti lis e d a n d w h a t p r o p o r ti o n w a s VAT a s w e ll b e c a u s e w e w o u ld n e e d to t a l ly i t a g a i n s t 20 that. CHAIRPERSON: Ye s , y e s , n o t h a t is i n o r d e r. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d m y p r o p o s a l is w e d o t h a t b o t h f o r th e p a y m e n t s r e c e iv e d p u r s u a n t t o t h e a r r a n g e m e n t o f Mr M a jo l a a c c o r d in g t o M r X ’s e v id e n c e a s w e l l a s t h e Pr e m i e r A t tr a c t io n p a y m e n t s . \ CHAIRPERSON: J a , t h a t ’s o k a y. Page 92 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a n k y o u . S o w e w i ll d o t h a t a n d t h a t s u p p l e m e n t a r y a ffi d a v i t w il l b e m a d e a v a il a b l e t o t h e C o m m i s s i o n . Mr X I w o u l d n o w l ik e t o j u s t d e a l w i t h w h a t M r Ta l e n th e M y e n i s a id in h i s e v i d e n c e b e fo r e t h e C o m m i s s i o n y e s t e r d a y. M r M y e n i’s e v i d e n c e b e f o r e t h e C o m m is s i o n is t h a t th e s e th r e e p a y m e n ts t h a t Is ib o n e l o r e c e i v e d fr o m P r e m i e r A t tr a c t i o n r e l a te d to w o r k t h a t Is i b o n e l o h a d d o n e f o r Pr e m i e r A t t r a c ti o n a r o u n d t h e t i m e t h a t t h e p a y m e n t s w e r e received. Now what do you say in response to that? 10 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : I h a v e n e v e r w o r k e d fo r h i m . A n d d o y o u h a v e a n y r e c o r d s o f i n v o ic e s t h a t Is ib o n e l o m a y h a v e i s s u e d t o P r e m ie r A t tr a c t io n fo r t h e s e a m o u n ts ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : No. A n d is i t p o s s i b l e M r X t h a t Is ib o n e l o w a s d o i n g w o r k f o r P r e m ie r A t t r a c ti o n a n d b e i n g o w e d th e s e a m o u n t s o f money without you knowing that it was doing the work? CHAIRPERSON: I t h i n k p u t i t d i ff e r e n t l y, th e q u e s ti o n is w h e t h e r i t w a s p o s s ib le t h a t Is ib o n e l o C o n s tr u c t io n m a y h a v e d o n e w o r k f o r P r e m i e r A t tr a c ti o n w i t h o u t h i m k n o w i n g t h a t Is i b o n e l o C o n s tr u c ti o n d i d 20 w o r k fo r P r e m ie r A t tr a c t io n ? O k a y, o k a y, I t h in k t h e p r o b l e m is w h e n y o u . . . [i n d i s t i n c t ]. O k a y l e t ’s s ta r t a g a in , M r X is th e r e a n y w o r k t h a t y o u r c o m p a n y I s i b o n e l o C o n s tr u c t io n , c o u ld d o f o r a n y b o d y w it h o u t y o u k n o w i n g t h a t y o u r c o m p a n y is d o i n g w o r k f o r th a t p e r s o n ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I n t e r p r e t e r ) : Yo u m e a n a p e r s o n w o u l d o r a c o m p a n y Page 93 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 w o u ld w o r k u s i n g m y n a m e o r m y c o m p a n y ’s n a m e a n d I w o u ld n ’t b e aware? CHAIRPERSON: Ye s , w h a t i s y o u r p o s it i o n i n I s i b o n e l o i f y o u a r e a b l e t o s a y t h a t, b u t i f y o u th i n k d is c l o s i n g t h a t m ig h t n o t b e a p p r o p r i a t e f o r y o u r s a f e t y t h e n y o u m u s t t e ll m e b u t i f y o u f e e l y o u c a n t h e n y o u c a n t e ll m e . MR X (through Interpreter): I u n d e r s ta n d t h e q u e s ti o n . I a m t h e m a n a g i n g d ir e c t o r fr o m t h e w a y Well every work for my company comes fr o m m y o ff ic e , a s lik e I s a i d I a m t h e m a n a g in g d i r e c t o r s o th e r e is n o 10 w o r k t h a t w il l b e d o n e o u ts i d e m y o ffic e f o r a n e x a m p l e t h a t I w o u l d n ’ t know about. CHAIRPERSON: Ye s , s o a n y o n e w h o g e ts y o u r c o m p a n y t o d o w o r k f o r t h e m y o u w o u l d k n o w a b o u t t h a t w o r k , i s t h a t r ig h t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: Ye s . O k a y. I h o p e .. . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : K h u m a l o th a n k y o u . T h a t c l a r i f ie s i t , I a m in d e b t e d C h a ir a n d M s M r X M r Ta le n t h e M y e n i ’s e v i d e n c e y e s t e r d a y w a s e ffe c tiv e l y t h a t w h a t y o u a r e t e l li n g t h e C o m m i s s io n n o w i s a l i e , because he says that this work was done and as a result of that 20 P r e m i e r A t tr a c ti o n o w e d Is i b o n e l o j u s t m o r e t h a n R 3 m il li o n . In t h e li g h t o f t h a t I w a n t t o a s k y o u w h e th e r y o u r e v i d e n c e t o d a y h a s b e e n u n tr u t h fu l? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : W h a t I a m t e ll in g t h e C o m m i s s i o n i t is t h e tr u th . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Th a n k y o u . Page 94 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 CHAIRPERSON: Would you have any reason not to have kept the money if you had done work and had been paid for doing work? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : There would be no reason because I n e e d t h e m o n e y s o I w o u ld h a v e k e p t i t . CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : M r X i s t h e r e a n y w a y i n w h i c h y o u a r e g o in g t o b e n e fi t fr o m g i v i n g t h e e v i d e n c e th a t y o u h a v e g iv e n t o d a y ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 10 N o th e r e is n o t h i n g t h a t I w o u l d b e n e f it . A n d d o y o u l o s e a n y t h i n g b y g iv in g t h e evidence today? M R X ( t hr o u g h I n t e r p r e t e r ) : I l o s e h o p e f o r s u r v iv a l, f o r l iv i n g . A n d lo s i n g f r i e n d s , e v e n t h e c o m m u n i t y w o u l d r e g a r d m e a s a p e r s o n t h a t c a n n o t b e tr u s t e d b e c a u s e t h e y d o n ’ t k n o w th e tr u t h . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d M r X h a s y o u r e v i d e n c e , g iv i n g y o u r e v i d e n c e y e s te r d a y a n d t o d a y a ffe c te d y o u r f a m ily in a n y w a y ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I n t e r p r e t e r ) : To o m u c h , t h e y w e r e e v e n a fr a i d t o g o t o s le e p , w a i t in g f o r m e a t t h e n e i g h b o u r s . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : Why were at the neighbours? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : 20 They didn’t know what was going to h a p p e n t o m e a f t e r t h is . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : A n d M r X y o u in d i c a t e d in y o u r i n c a m e r a a p p lic a ti o n to t h i s C o m m i s s i o n t h a t y o u r d a u g h t e r h a d r e c e iv e d a c a ll o n t h e 2 4 t h o f J a n u a r y t h is y e a r. C a n y o u p le a s e t e l l u s a b o u t t h a t call? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : W h a t h a p p e n e d i s a f te r I w a s Page 95 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 a p p r o a c h e d b y t h e in v e s ti g a t in g t e a m o f t h e C o m m is s i o n t h e y w e r e a s k in g m e q u e s ti o n s a b o u t t h i s m o n i e s a n d t h e n I s a i d p le a s e g o b a c k t o t h o s e p e o p l e w h o w e r e d e p o s i t in g m o n e y i n t o my a c c o u n t a n d a s k t h e m a s to w h y w e r e t h e y d e p o s i t in g m o n i e s i n t o my a c c o u n t . T h e n h e le f t , h e c a m e b a c k a ft e r g o in g t o f in d o u t a b o u t w h y t h e s e p e o p l e w e r e d e p o s it i n g m o n e y in t o m y a c c o u n t . Th a t i s w h e n t h e f o l lo w in g d a y my d a u g h t e r r e c e iv e d t h is c a l l fr o m D u d u M y e n i to s a y y o u r fa t h e r i s s e l li n g u s o u t . A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : 10 A n d h o w d id y o u r f a m ily r e a c t to r e c e iv i n g th a t call? M R X ( t hr o u g h I n t e r pr e t e r ) : W h e n I r e la t e d t h i s t o m y f a m il y I tr ie d t o p u t i t l ig h tl y b e c a u s e I d o n ’ t w a n t to s c a r e t h e m o ff, l ik e t o s c a r e t h e m , s o j a th a t i s h o w I r e l a t e d t o my f a m ily. A D V K AT E H O F M E Y R : CHAIRPERSON: Th a n k y o u C h a ir, t h o s e a r e o u r q u e s t io n s . Mr X d id M s D u d u M y e n i h a v e y o u r d a u g h t e r ’s n u m b e r b e fo r e t h i s d a y w h e n s h e c a l l e d h e r. A s f a r a s y o u k n o w h a d s h e c a l le d h e r b e f o r e a n d s o o n ? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s b e c a u s e w e a r e f a m ily o r w e r e g a r d e a c h o th e r a s f a m i ly s o w e d o h a v e o u r c h i l d r e n ’s c o n ta c t d e t a i ls a s 20 w e ll , o r p h o n e n u m b e r s . CHAIRPERSON: B u t d o y o u k n o w f o r s u r e t h a t s h e h a d c a l le d , M s D u d u My e n i h a d c a ll e d y o u r d a u g h t e r b e f o r e t h is d a y ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I n t e r p r e t e r ) : I t m a y h a p p e n t h a t t h e la s t c a l l w o u ld h a v e b e e n tw o y e a r s b e f o r e th a t d a y o r a y e a r a n d a h a l f CHAIRPERSON: Is t h a t – a r e y o u t a l k i n g a b o u t a c a l l b e t w e e n y o u r Page 96 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 d a u g h t e r M r My e n i ? . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: Th a t i s c o r r e c t . A n d d i d y o u c h e c k t h e n u m b e r o n y o u r d a u g h te r ’s cell phone by any chance? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: Ye s , o k a y. N o I d id n ’ t . N o w w h e n th e s e a m o u n ts t h a t y o u h a d t e s ti fi e d a b o u t w e r e d e p o s it e d o r tr a n s f e r r e d i n t o y o u r c o m p a n y ’s a c c o u n t d i d y o u s a y y o u n e v e r a s k e d Mr M a jo l a w h y it w a s n e c e s s a r y t h a t t h e s e p a y m e n ts s h o u l d b e tr a n s f e r r e d o r p a i d i n to y o u r c o m p a n y ’s 10 a c c o u n t w h e n y o u r e a l ly h a d n o t h i n g t o d o w i t h t h e m ? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : L ik e I s a i d y e s t e r d a y a s w e w e r e h a v i n g t h is c o n v e r s a ti o n m y s e lf w i t h M r M a j o la I w a s p r o b a b ly s a i d I w o u ld g o a n d w o r k o n t h e s i t e , n u m b e r t w o i f th e r e i s n o m o n e y c o m i n g i n t o m y a c c o u n t t h a t m o n e y is lo o k e d a t a s t u r n o v e r a n d i t i m p r o v e s th e g r a d in g o f m y c o m p a n y, t h e y c a l l i t C ID B , s o t h a t m o n e y i m p r o v e s , t h e g r a d e s t h a t s t a r t f r o m 1 t o 9 D B , s o i t i m p r o v e s th e g r a d i n g o f m y c o m p a n y. CHAIRPERSON: W h e n y o u t a lk a b o u t t h o s e p a y m e n ts i m p r o v i n g t h e g r a d in g o f y o u r c o m p a n y, d o y o u m e a n t h a t y o u r c o m p a n y w o u ld b e s e e n a s d o i n g b u s i n e s s t h a t in v o lv e s l a r g e tr a n s a c t i o n s ? 20 M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: Ye s . Ye s , s o a r e y o u s a y i n g t h a t t h a t is w h a t M r M a j o la s a i d n a m e l y th e s e a m o u n t s w o u l d b e p a i d i n t o y o u r a c c o u n t s o t h a t y o u r c o m p a n y ’s g r a d in g c o u ld b e i m p r o v e d o r a r e y o u s a y in g th a t t h a t s i m p l y th e b e n e fi t t h a t y o u s a w fo r y o u r c o m p a n y w e r e i n r e g a r d to t h e s e p a y m e n ts . Page 97 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : I t w a s t h e w a y I v ie w e d i t t h a t i t w o u ld b e n e fi t m e t h a t it w o u l d u p g r a d e t h e g r a d i n g o f m y c o m p a n y o r i m p r o v e t h e g r a d i n g o f m y c o m p a n y. CHAIRPERSON: I f I r e c a ll c o r r e c tl y y o u s a i d y e s t e r d a y th a t y o u r a tt i tu d e w a s th a t th e p a y m e n t o f t h e s e a m o u n t s i n t o y o u r c o m p a n y ’s account was wrong, am I correct? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : I d i d e x p la in a s t o w h y I s a id i t w a s w r o n g , i f I r e m e m b e r y e s te r d a y I d i d r e s p o n d t o t h a t q u e s ti o n . CHAIRPERSON: 10 I t h i n k h e m e a n s h e c o u l d e x p l a in n o w i f h e c a n b e g iv e n th e c o n t e x t o f h o w h e c a m e to g i v e t h a t a n s w e r y e s t e r d a y. M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : If t h e q u e s t io n c a n b e r e p e a t e d a g a i n yes. CHAIRPERSON: I t h i n k I a s k e d y o u y e s t e r d a y w h e t h e r y o u th o u g h t t h e r e w a s a n y th i n g w r o n g w i th y o u r c o m p a n y r e c e iv i n g t h e s e p a y m e n ts t h a t M r M a jo l a h a d a r r a n g e d w i th y o u w o u l d b e p a i d in t o y o u r c o m p a n y. D o y o u r e m e m b e r m e a s k in g y o u t h a t q u e s ti o n ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: Ye s , I r e m e m b e r. Am I right to think that your answer was that you t h o u g h t th e s e p a y m e n t s w e r e w r o n g , r e c e i v i n g t h e s e p a y m e n ts w a s 20 wrong? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: Ye s . T h e r e a s o n – c a n I e x p l a i n ? Ye s , w h y d i d y o u t h i n k i t w a s w r o n g ? M R X ( t h r o u g h I nt e r p r e t e r ) : O k a y, i f y o u c o u l d r e m e m b e r I w a s h o p in g th a t I w i ll v is i t t h e s i t e , t h e w o r k f o r t h is m o n e y w h i c h w a s c o m i n g i n t o m y a c c o u n t e v e r y n o w a n d a g a i n b u t m y v is i t in g o r g o i n g t o Page 98 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 w o r k a t t h e s i te w a s – k e p t o n b e i n g p o s t p o n e d , s o n o w I w a s r e c e iv i n g t h is m o n e y w i th o u t h a v i n g s e e n t h e a c t u a l w o r k t h a t w a s d o n e fo r th is m o n e y w h ic h w a s b e i n g d e p o s i te d i n t o m y b u s i n e s s a c c o u n t . CHAIRPERSON: A m I r ig h t t o th i n k t h a t y o u th o u g h t t h a t t h is w a s s o m e t h i n g t h a t s h o u l d n o t b e h a p p e n in g , n a m e ly p a y m e n t o f t h e s e a m o u n ts i n t o y o u r a c c o u n t i n c ir c u m s t a n c e s w h e r e y o u h a d d o n e a n y work? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: 10 Ye s y o u a r e r i g h t . W h y d id n ’t y o u a t a n y s t a g e s a y to M r M a j o la I t h i n k t h is is w r o n g , p le a s e d o n ’ t – l e t u s n o t c o n ti n u e w i t h th is a r r a n g e m e n t? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : L ik e I s a i d y e s t e r d a y t o h i m t h i s b u s i n e s s w a s – th is t h i n g w a s a lr e a d y g o i n g o n , s o to h i m i f I s a i d to h i m l e t t h is s t o p i t w o u l d h a v e b e e n li k e I a m b e i n g j e a lo u s o f h i m i f I stopped it. CHAIRPERSON: A n d th e n l e t ’s t a lk a b o u t th e p a y m e n ts fr o m P r e m ie r A t tr a c t io n . M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: Ye s . N o w I th in k y o u s a i d t h a t p r io r to y o u b e c o m in g a w a r e o f t h e fir s t p a y m e n t i n t o y o u r c o m p a n y ’s a c c o u n t , t h e m o n e y 20 fr o m P r e m i e r A t tr a c ti o n y o u w e r e n o t a w a r e o r n o b o d y h a d s p o k e n t o y o u t o a l e r t y o u t h a t s o m e p a y m e n t w o u l d b e m a d e i n to y o u r a c c o u n t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : CHAIRPERSON: Ye s t h a t is c o r r e c t . B u t a f te r y o u h a d b e c o m e a w a r e y o u s a i d y o u d i d g e t a c a ll fr o m M r M y e n i is t h a t c o r r e c t ? M R X ( t hr o u g h I nt e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . Page 99 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 C H A IR PER SO N: I k n o w it is – i t is ma n y y e a rs a g o b u t I w o u ld lik e y ou if y o u c a n to c a s t y o u r min d b a c k to th a t c o n v e rs a tio n th a t y o u h a d w ith h e r a n d tr y a n d te ll me e x a c tly h o w th a t c o nv e rs a tio n w e n t. MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : O k a y, I w o u ld h o n e s tly n e e d h e lp b ec a us e I a m n o t s u r e if th e n u mb e r I a m u s in g c u r r en tly is th e n u mb e r I w a s u s in g w h e n s h e c a lle d me s o I w ill h a v e a p r o b le m w ith th a t w h ic h p h o n e e x a c tly o r p h on e n u mb e r b a s ic a lly th a t I w a s u s in g th e n w h e n I r e c e iv e d a c a ll b e c a us e I h a d to c h a n g e n u mb er s . C H A IR PER SO N: 10 N o , w h a t I w a n te d is , i f y o u a r e a b le to h e lp me , is ju s t th e c o n te n t o f th e d is c u s s ion . Sh e c a lle d y o u , w h a t d id s h e s a y a s mu c h a s , te ll me a s mu c h a s y o u c a n r e me mb er? I a c c e p t th a t y o u mig h t n o t r e me mb e r a lo t a b o u t th e c o n v e r s a tio n b u t t e ll me a s mu c h a s y o u c a n a s to h o w th a t c o n v e r sa tio n w e n t? Sh e c a lle d yo u , w h a t d id s h e s a y ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : Ma y b e if I c a n g o b a c k to my o ffic e s o me th in g ca n b r in g b ac k my me mo ry b u t r ig h t n o w, I d o no t r e me mb e r th e c o n te n t. C H A IR PER SO N: O k a y, a lr ig h t, b u t y o u h a v e to ld u s s o me th in g th a t s h e to ld y o u in th a t c o n v e r sa tio n , is it n o t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : 20 O k a y, lik e I s a id , th e r e w a s mo ne y w h ic h w a s d e p os ite d in to a a c c o u n t, i t w a s o n e millio n , li te r a lly w e s a t d o w n a n d w e lo o k ed a t it, w a itin g to h e a r w h e r e th is mo n e y w a s c o ming fr o m b e c a us e th e r e w as n o r e fle c tio n w he r e th is mo n e y w as c o min g fr o m. Tw o , th r e e d a ys a fte r, th e n Mis s My e n i c a lle d u s a n d a s ke d me d id y o u s e e th e a c tiv ity in y o u r ac c o un t? Th e r e is mo n e y w h ic h ca me in to y o u r a cc o u n t. So s h e w a s a sk in g a s to w h e th er d id I s e e t h a t mo n e y. Page 100 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 C H A IR PER SO N: Ye s , n o , th a t is h e lp fu l. So , s h e a s k e d y o u w h e th e r y o u s aw s o me a c tiv ity in to in y o u r ac c ou n t r ig h t? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : C H A IR PER SO N: Ye s . An d w h a t d id y o u s a y in r e s p on s e? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r) : Th e n I th in k w h a t h a p pe n e d ne x t w as to w a it fo r h e r, I th in k th e r e w a s a n a r r a n g e me n t n o w a s to h o w th is mo n e y w a s g o ing to g e t to h e r, b e c au s e it w as h er mo n e y wh ic h w a s de p o s ite d in to my a c co u n t s o I wa s w a itin g fo r h er to in s tr u c t me o n h ow, w h a t to d o w ith th e mo n e y. 10 C H A IR PER SO N: D id s h e s a y th a t s h e w a s ta lk in g a b o u t th e mo n e y th a t c a me fr o m Pr e mie r At tr a c tio n , o r d id s h e n o t me n tio n th e n a me o f th e c o mp a ny ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r) : Sh e ju s t s a id d id y ou s ee th a t th e r e wa s mo n e y w h ic h w a s d ep o s ite d in to y o ur a c co un t? C H A IR PER SO N: An d d id y o u s a y y es , y o u s a w ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : C H A IR PER SO N: a b o u t? Ye s , w e s a w it, i t is in th e a c c o u n t. H o w d id y o u k n o w wh ic h a mo u n t s h e w as ta lk in g W h ich mo n e y th er e th a t h a d come in w h ic h s h e wa s ta lk ing a b o u t? 20 MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : I know th a t, b a s ic a lly I know th e r e fe r e nc e s o f th e p e o p le th a t I h a v e w o r k e d fo r o r w o r k e d w ith . Th is o n e it w a s mo n e y th a t I d id n o t k n o w w h e r e it w a s c o min g fr o m, b u t th e r e fe r e nc e w as PA1 0 1 6 . C H A IR PER SO N: In th e , b u t in th e e n d b o t h o f y o u w e re q u ite c le a r th a t y o u w e re ta lk in g a b o u t th e s a me a mo u n t? Page 101 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s . Th a t i s c o rr e c t. Th e fa c t th a t s h e p e r s ua d e d to g e t th is mill io n , I d id n o t h a v e it s o y e s I d id n o t h a v e th e millio n , s o it w a s c le a r th a t it w a s h e r mo n ey. C H A IR PER SO N: At th e time w h e n o n th e t w o o c c as io n s th a t y o u s a y s h e a s k ed y o u to p a y th e mo n e y in to a n a c c o u nt w h ic h la te r tu r n e d o u t to b e th e a c c o u n t o f th e J a c o b Zu ma Fo u n d a ti o n . Wa s y o u r c o mp a ny in a fin a n c ia l p o s itio n w h e re it c o u ld h a v e d on a te d th e a mo u n ts th a t y o u tr a n s fe r re d in to th e J a c o b Zu ma Fo u n d a tio n a c c o u n t? IN TER PR ETER : 10 D id y o u r c o mp a ny, I d id n o t g e t th a t? C H A IR PER SO N: Wa s y ou r c o mp a ny fin a nc ia lly in a p os itio n to ma k e a d o n a tio n a s la r g e a s th e do n a tio n , a s th e amo u n ts th a t y o u , yo u p a id o v er to th e J a c o b Zu ma Fo u n d a tio n ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : W h e n my - my - my c o mp a n y ’s a c c ou n t a t th a t time w h e n I r e c e iv e d th is millio n , h a d a b a la n c e o f - 8 4 0 . C H A IR PER SO N: An d i ts s itu a tio n h a d n o t c h a n g e d s u b s ta n tia lly w he n th e s e c o n d a mou n t c a me in th a t y o u w e r e as k e d to p a y ov e r to th e J a co b Zu ma Fo u n d a tio n ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : C H A IR PER SO N: 20 O k a y, a lr ig h t. Mis s H o fm e y r, a n y th ing ? A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : C H A IR PER SO N: N o , i t d id n o t c h a n g e . N o C h a ir, n o t a t a ll . Mr X, w e h a v e c o me to th e e n d o f y o u r e v id e n ce . L a te r o n I w ill w e ig h u p y o u r e v ide n ce to g e th e r w ith th e e v id e n c e o f a n y o th er p e r s on w h o may c o me a n d g ive e v ide n c e o n th e ma tte r s o n w h ic h yo u h a v e g iv e n e v id en c e . At th is s ta g e I c a n n o t s a y w h a t th e tr u th is b e c a u s e I mu s t s till h e a r o th e r W itn e s s e s . Bu t I d o w a n t to th a n k y o u fo r c o min g Page 102 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 to th e C o mmis s io n to g iv e e v id e n c e a n d a s s is t th e C o mmis s io n e v e n w h e n y ou w e r e , y o u fe lt th a t y o u r s a fe ty a n d th a t o f y o u r fa mily w a s u n d e r th r e a t. Th e C o mmis s io n w ill d o e v e ry th in g it c a n to ma k e s u r e th a t y o u a r e p r o v id ed w ith p r o te c tio n , o b v io u s ly it c a n o n ly g o u p to a c e r ta in p o in t b u t it w ill d o e v e r y th in g th a t it is a b le to do a n d I a ls o ju s t w an t to te ll y o u th a t w e n e e d mo r e So u th - Afr ic a n s wh o w ill c o me a n d a s s is t th e C o mmis s ion a n d g iv e Ev id e nc e , e v e n if t h e r e ma y b e th r e a ts to th e ir s a fe ty a n d th e ir liv e s . Bu t w e d o a p p r e c iate th a t it is n o t a lw a y s e a s y, b u t to th o s e w h o d o c o me d e s p ite th o s e s itu a tio n s w e a r e d e e p ly in d e b te d 10 a n d w e a p p r e c ia te it a n d w e ju s t w a n t y o u t o k n o w, y o u a n d y o u r fa mily to k n o w th a t th e Co mmis s io n is g ra te fu l th a t y o u w e re a b le to co me a n d g iv e e v id e nc e d e sp ite th e s itu a tio n th a t y o u h a v e d e sc r ib e d . If la te r o n w e n e e d y ou to c o me b ac k , we w ill a sk y ou to c o me b ac k a nd I h o p e yo u w ill b e a b le to c o me . Yo u u n d e r s ta n d ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : C H A IR PER SO N: Ye s . Th a n k y o u v e ry mu c h y ou a r e n o w e xc u s ed . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : C H A IR PER SO N: Ma y I s a y s ome th in g ? Ye s – y e s s u re . MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : 20 me mb e r s wh e r e I s ta y. I w o u ld lik e to s a y th is to th e c o mmu n ity My Sis te r s , my Ch ild r e n , my Fr ie n ds , I d id n o t c o me h e r e to s e ll o u t a n y o n e . I w a s fo r c e d b y th e s ta te me n t w h ic h w a s b r o u g h t to me b y th e C o mmis s io n . I c o u ld n o t c h a n g e it b u t I h a d to te ll th e tr u th . I c o u ld n o t c h a n g e it. Th a n k y o u . C H A IR PER SO N: O k a y is th a t a ll y o u w a n te d to s a y ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : Ye s , th a t is c o r r ec t. Page 103 of 104 18 FEBRUARY 2020 – DAY 214 C H A IR PER SO N: Is th e r e a n y th in g e ls e th a t y o u mig h t n o t h a v e b e en a s k ed w h ic h y ou fe e l y o u w o u ld lik e to s ay in r e g ar d to a n y o f th e ma tte r s th a t y o u h a v e d e a lt w ith ? MR X ( t hr ough int e r pr e t e r ) : C H A IR PER SO N: O k a y th a n k y o u , y ou a r e e x c us e d . Ye s Mis s H o fme y r ? A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : C H A IR PER SO N: N o th in g . I th in k th a t is u s fo r th e d a y, C h a ir. Ye s , I th o u g h t w e w o u ld fin is h a t th r e e . A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : Ye s , C h a ir I h a v e g iv e n u p e s tima tin g time , I to ld my le a r n e d Ju n io r th a t h e mu s t ju s t s to p me , I mu s t g iv e n o e x p e c ta tio n . 10 C H A IR PER SO N: N o , b u t i t is o k a y. To mo r r o w w h o is o u r W itn es s ? A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : C h a ir, to mo r r ow th e r e is an o th e r In -C a me ra a p p lic a tio n wh ic h w ill n e e d to b e d ea lt w ith in itia lly a n d th e n th e r e a r e W itn e s s es d e a lin g w ith Sta te Se c u r ity ma tte r s . C H A IR PER SO N: Ye s , o k a y n o th a t is fine . Sh a ll w e s ta r t a t n o r ma l time ? A D V K ATE H O FMEYR : C H A IR PER SO N: I th in k n o r ma l time s h o u ld b e fin e C h a ir, in d e e d . O k a y, a lr ig h t. O k a y w e w ill a d jo u r n th e n fo r th e d a y a n d to mo r r o w w e w ill s ta r t a t n o r ma l time , n a me l y 1 0 o ’c lo ck . We a d jo u r n . IN Q U IRY A DJ O U RN S TO 1 9 FEB R U ARY 2 0 2 0 20 Page 104 of 104