C O M M I S S I O N O F I N Q U I RY I N TO S TAT E C A P T U R E H E L D AT PA R K TO W N , J O H A N N E S B U R G 10 18 APRIL 2019 D AY 8 6 20 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 PROCEEDINGS ON 18 APRIL 2019 C H A I R P E R S O N : G o o d m o r n i n g , g o o d m o r n i n g e v e r y b o d y. Thank you le t u s p r o c e e d . Yo u r m ic . P u t o n y o u r s a s w e ll M a j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n . Thank you. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. Good m o r n in g . Ye s t e r d a y M r B o o y s e n w e e n d e d y o u r e v i d e n c e o n y o u t e ll in g t h e c o m m i s s i o n a b o u t M r To s h a n P a n d a y a n d C o l o n e l M a d h o e h a v i n g b e e n a r r e s t e d o n c r i m i n a l c h a r g e s r e l a ti n g t o b r ib e r y / c o r r u p t io n , is that correct? 10 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : W e r e m a i n t h e n to b e w i t h u s e of the timeline on Exhibit ZD page 3. C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d w h ic h b lo c k a r e w e o n t o d a y ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : P a g e – s o r r y b lo c k - w e m o v i n g o n to b l o c k 2 7 . CHAIRPERSON : 27 okay thank you. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n t h a t r e g a r d c a n I a s k y o u t o t u r n t o p a g e 1 5 in b u n d le Z A o f y o u r m a i n a ffi d a v i t w h i le k e e p i n g t h is p a r t ic u l a r d i a g r a m p a g e o p e n . 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : D id y o u s a y … A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : S o i t i s … C H A I R P E R S O N : D id y o u s a y p a g e 1 5 ? A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : P a g e 1 5 . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : To s t a r t I k n o w d ir e c t y o u r Page 2 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 a tt e n ti o n to p a r a g r a p h 4 9 o f y o u r s ta t e m e n t . General Booysen f o ll o w i n g t h e a r r e s t o f C o l o n e l M a d h o e a n d M r To s h a n P a n d a y a r e y o u a w a r e o f w h a t tr a n s p ir e d f o l l o w in g t h e a r r e s t ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : To a n e x te n t I a m C h a ir. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : P le a s e i n fo r m t h e c o m m i s s io n about what you know? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir s o o n a f t e r b o th h a d b e e n a r r e s t e d a n d h a d a p p e a r e d t h e c o m m e r c i a l c r i m e s c o u r t in 10 D u r b a n t h e i n v e s ti g a t o r o ffic e r a l e r t e d m e t h a t t h e p r o s e c u to r in t h e m a t t e r A d v o c a t e B h e k i M a n y a th i h a d r e c e i v e d a c o m m u n i c a e fr o m I d o n o t k n o w i n w h a t f o r m – w e ll I d i d n o t k n o w a t t h a t s ta g e in w h a t f o r m , h a d r e c e i v e d a c o m m u n ic a e fr o m A d v o c a t e M g w e b e fr o m t h e N PA h e a d o ffic e . H e w a s I t h i n k th e h e a d o f th e c o m m e r c ia l c r i m e s e c ti o n a t th e N a t io n a l P r o s e c u t in g A u th o r i ty. CHAIRPERSON : H’m. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : And he showed me a le t t e r w h i c h A d v o c a t e M g w e b e h a d w r i t t e n to A d v o c a te M a n y a t h i . T h e e x t e n t o f t h e l e tt e r w a s b a s ic a l ly i n t e r r o g a ti n g w h y M a d h o e h a d b e e n – 20 C o l o n e l M a d h o e h a d b e e n c h a r g e d o r p r o s e c u te d . Th e r e w a s o n e r e fe r e n c e – in t h e - t h is c o m m u n ic a e s t a t in g b e s i d e s a s c r a p p ie c e o f p a p e r w h a t o th e r e v i d e n c e is th e r e a g a i n s t M a d h o e . I t h i n k t h e s c r a p p i e c e o f p a p e r t h e y p r o b a b ly r e f e r r e d t o is t h e n o te o n w h ic h I w r o t e t h e d a t e a t t h e f u n e r a l. CHAIRPERSON : H’m. Page 3 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : After that Advocate M a n y a th i p e n n e d a d e t a il e d l e g a l o p in i o n c o m p r is i n g a n u m b e r o f p a g e s s e t ti n g o u t t h e e x te n t o f th e e v i d e n c e a g a in s t M a d h o e a n d h e c o n c l u d e d h i s l e g a l o p in io n b y s t a ti n g th a t h e i n t e n d s i n d ic t in g M a d h o e in t h e h i g h c o u r t f o r c o r r u p t io n . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I f I c a n t h e n a s k y o u to t u r n . C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y h e – d id h e … A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A p o l o g i e s . 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : A s fa r a s y o u k n o w d id y o u – d i d h e t h e n s e n d t h a t opinion to Advocate Mgwebe? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : I know that he did do t h a t C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y th a n k y o u . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n t h a t r e g a r d c a n I a s k y o u t o t u r n t o A n n e x u r e J W B 5 w h ic h s t a r ts o n p a g e 9 1 o f th a t s a m e b u n d l e ZA. T h is p a r t ic u l a r d o c u m e n t i s t it l e d I n t e r n a l M e m o r a n d u m a n d i t i s s e n t fr o m A d v o c a t e L S M g w e b e S p e c i a l D ir e c t o r S C C U t o A d v o c a t e W M il l e r A c t i n g R e g i o n a l H e a d S C C U D u r b a n a n d c c is A d v o c a te M lo t s h w a 20 A c ti n g D ir e c t o r o f P u b l ic P r o s e c u t io n K w a Z u l u N a t a l. I t i s d a t e d o n t h e fr o n t p a g e a s 9 J a n u a r y 2 0 1 2 a n d th e s u b j e c t ti t le is r e f e r e n c e d a s Colonel Navin Madhoe w i th p a r ti c u l a r it y to a d d i ti o n a l d e t a ils . N o t w i t h s t a n d in g t h e d a te o n t h is p a r ti c u la r p a g e i f I c a n a s k y o u to j u s t t u r n t o p a g e 9 4 – 9 4 o f t h a t s a m e b u n d le . Th e r e is in f a c t a d a te m e n ti o n e d t h e r e t h o u g h t h e 4 D e c e m b e r 2 0 11 a n d i t is s ig n e d o ff b y Page 4 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 A d v o c a t e L S M g w e b e o r r a t h e r n o t s i g n e d o ff b y A d v o c a t e L S M g w e b e . I s t h is th e p a r t ic u l a r d o c u m e n t t h a t y o u w e r e r e fe r r i n g t o ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h a t is t h e d o c u m e n t b u t I h a v e i t a s A d v o c a te L a w r e n c e M g w e b e t h a t is h o w h e is k n o w n . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Thank you. Is i t c o r r e c t t h a t t h is p a r t ic u l a r d o c u m e n t c o n c e r n e d r e p r e s e n ta t io n s th a t w e r e m a d e to h is o ffi c e a s y o u h a v e p r e v i o u s l y i n d ic a t e d ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : That is my in t e r p r e t a ti o n o f th e d o c u m e n t C h a ir. 10 A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th a n k y o u . C H A I R P E R S O N : O n e c a n s a y th a t i n t h e fir s t p a r a g r a p h i n th a t l e tt e r t h a t d o c u m e n t i t is a le t t e r fr o m A d v o c a te L S M g w e b e d a t e d 9 J a n u a r y 2 0 1 2 a d d r e s s e d t o A d v o c a t e W M i ll e r a t r e g i o n a l h e a d C C U D u r b a n a n d a c o p y s e n t t o A d v o c a te M l o t s h w a a c ti n g D ir e c t o r o f P u b lic P r o s e c u ti o n K w a z u l u N a ta l . A n d in th e f ir s t p a r a g r a p h h e s a y s th a t h i s o ffic e t h a t i s A d v o c a t e M g w e b e r e c e iv e d o n 6 D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 - i t s a y s 2 0 1 i t m u s t h a v e b e e n 2 0 11 – m u s t h a v e i n te n d e d 2 0 11 h i s o ff ic e r e c e iv e d r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s fr o m t h e l a w y e r r e p r e s e n ti n g C o l o n e l M a d h o e i n t h e a b o v e m e n ti o n e d 20 m a t te r s . He then says a copy r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s is a t t a c h e d h e r e f o r y o u r in f o r m a t io n . of the said S o i t w o u ld a p p e a r th a t a r i s i n g fr o m s o m e r e p r e s e n ta ti o n s m a d e b y t h e l a w y e r fo r C o l o n e l M a d h o e h e t h e n d e c i d e d t o m a k e c e r t a i n e n q u ir i e s . Okay thank you. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. C a n y o u j u s t v e r y s i m p ly e x p l a i n w h a t e x a c t ly d o e s r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s m e a n ? Page 5 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Chair my u n d e r s t a n d in g o f r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s a r e t h a t i f y o u a s a n a c c u s e d f e e l t h a t t h e r e a r e n o – t h a t th e r e is n o e v i d e n c e a g a i n s t y o u o r th a t t h e r e m i g h t b e a p r o s e c u t i o n f o r u l te r i o r p u r p o s e s t h a t o n e c o u l d t h e n b r i n g th a t t o t h e a t te n ti o n o f t h e N D P P o r i n t h is p a r t ic u l a r i n s t a n c e I w o u l d h a v e t h o u g h t i t s h o u ld h a v e b e e n s e n t t o t h e D P P a n d if th e y h a d n o t h a d a n y c l o s u r e th a t i t w o u l d t h e n b e a d v a n c e d to t h e N D P P. CHAIRPERSON : Excuse me. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : 10 I n th a t r e g a r d c a n I t h e n a s k y o u w h e t h e r o r n o t A d v o c a te L a w r e n c e M g w e b e o u g h t t o h a v e r e c e i v e d t h e s e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s d ir e c tl y f r o m t h e a t t o r n e y s o f C o l o n e l M a d h o e . CHAIRPERSON : Well I am not sure why you think he – he should deal w i t h t h a t . S o m e b o d y a la w y e r is i n s tr u c t e d b y a n a c c u s e d p e r s o n a n d – a n d th e l a w y e r d e c i d e s to m a k e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s . If h e a r e in d e e d th e – is t h e l a w y e r w h o d e c i d e s w h e r e h e w i ll o r s h e w il l s e n d t h o s e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s . Even Advocate Mgwebe does he have a – does he h a v e a c h o i c e o f w h e th e r h e r e c e iv e s t h e m o r n o t. I f t h e y a r e s e n t to h i m t h e y l a n d o n h is d e s k , t h e y l a n d o n h is d e s k . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : 20 A s i t p le a s e s C h a ir. I would lik e t h e w it n e s s t h o u g h t o c l a r i fy t o u s w h e t h e r o r n o t i t w a s i n f a c t w e ll within the right of Mr – o f A d v o c a te Mgwebe to consider the r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s a s h e d i d ? CHAIRPERSON : W e ll I a m n o t s u r e y o u m i g h t k n o w s o m e t h in g th a t I do not know yet but an accused lawyer decides that on behalf of his c li e n t o r h e r c li e n t h e o r s h e w a n t s to m a k e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s t o th e N PA . Page 6 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 H e o r s h e d e c i d e s t o m a k e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n t o t h e p r o s e c u t o r o r s h e – h e o r s h e d e c i d e s t o m a k e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s to s o m e b o d y m u c h h i g h e r u p I a m n o t s u r e t h a t i t is s o m e t h i n g th a t w e r e a l ly w a n t to s p e n d t i m e o n a t t h is s t a g e . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : J a . C h a ir, C h a ir th is p a r ti c u l a r w i t n e s s w il l b e ta lk in g t o t h e p r o p e r c h a n n e ls t h a t o u g h t t o h a v e b e e n f o ll o w e d in t h is p a r ti c u la r p r o c e s s . C H A I R P E R S O N : B y w h o m – fo ll o w e d b y w h o m ? A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : 10 By an accused person and in t h is p a r tic u la r in s ta n c e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s b u t i f th e a c c u s e d p e r s o n d e c id e s n o t t o fo ll o w o r d o e s n o t k n o w h o w d o e s t h a t a s s is t u s ? O r d o e s n o t k n o w w h a t th e c o r r e c t p r o c e d u r e . I t is d i ffe r e n t if t h e p o i n t b e i n g m a d e is s o m e t h in g about Mr Mgwebe. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th a t is … CHAIRPERSON : I s th e r e a p o in t t h a t is s o u g h t to b e m a d e a b o u t M r Mgwebe? A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th a t is i n f a c t t h e p o i n t C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d w h a t is t h e p o i n t? 20 A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h e p o i n t i s t h a t th r o u g h t h e e v i d e n c e o f G e n e r a l B o o y s e n t h e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s o u g h t n o t to h a v e been considered. CHAIRPERSON : Ought not to have been? A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : considered. Page 7 of 108 Ought not to have been 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 CHAIRPERSON : W e ll a r e w e a t t h e s t a g e w h e r e t h e y a r e b e in g c o n s i d e r e d ? Al l I k n o w is t h e r e h a s b e e n – M g w e b e h a d r e c e iv e d s o m e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s a n d h e i s a s k i n g f o r c o m m e n t fr o m t h e p r o s e c u to r. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A s i t p le a s e s C h a ir. Can I – c a n I m a y b e j u s t r e p h r a s e m y q u e s t io n to t h e G e n e r a l i n s t e a d ? C H A I R P E R S O N : J a m a y b e o t h e r w i s e m a y b e a t s o m e s t a g e l a te r m a y b e t h e r e m ig h t h a v e – t h e r e m i g h t b e a p r o p e r f o u n d a t i o n f o r – fo r w h a t y o u o r M a j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n m ig h t h a v e in m in d b u t a s t h in g s s t a n d i t d o e s n o t a p p e a r to m e th a t i t i s r e a l ly s o m e th i n g t h a t o n e c a n m a k e 10 m u c h p o in t a b o u t r e p r e s e n t a t i o n s b e i n g s e n t to a w r o n g p e r s o n b y a n a c c u s e d l a w y e r. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A s i t p l e a s e s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : That is assuming it is a wrong place to send them. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A s i t p l e a s e s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : H’m. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : experience what was the proper G e n e r a l B o o y s e n in y o u r c hannels to process the r e p r e s e n t a ti o n ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : 20 C h a i r I s p e c i f ic a l ly m e n ti o n e d t h i s i n m y s ta t e m e n t b e c a u s e A d v o c a t e M g w e b e h i s n a m e w i ll c r o p u p o n a fe w o t h e r o c c a s io n s la t e r in m y s ta t e m e n t . CHAIRPERSON : H’m. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : In m y e x p e r i e n c e a n d w e r e a n u m b e r o f y e a r s a n d I h a v e c a n v a s s e d t h is w i th a n u m b e r o f prosecutors. Page 8 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 CHAIRPERSON : H’m. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : N o r m a lly i f y o u w a n t t o m a k e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s CHAIRPERSON : H’m. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : I n t h i s p a r tic u la r in s t a n c e i t s h o u ld h a v e g o n e t o t h e D P P o r a t – o r t o A d v o c a t e M il l e r CHAIRPERSON : H’m MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : Who was the head of t h e o ffi c e in D u r b a n . 10 CHAIRPERSON : H’m M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d I u n d e r s t a n d th e C h a ir ’s c o n c e r n a b o u t t h e a t t o r n e y w r i ti n g d ir e c t ly t o th e N D P P o ff ic e t h e y c o u l d h a v e b e e n – b e e n u n a w a r e o f t h e p r o c e d u r e b u t my p r o b l e m is t h a t I f e e l t h a t A d v o c a t e M g w e b e s h o u l d n o t h a v e e n t e r t a i n e d t h e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n . H e s h o u l d h a v e r e f e r r e d i t i n i ts e n t ir e ty b a c k t o th e D P P ’s o ffi c e t o d e a l w i th i t. I f t h e a c c u s e d w a s s ti ll n o t s a tis f ie d h e c o u l d th e n e s c a l a te i t to t h e N D P P ’s o ff ic e . Th a t – t h a t is h o w I h a v e e x p e r i e n c e d i t o v e r th e y e a r s . S o I j u s t f o u n d i t a b it o d d th a t A d v o c a te M g w e b e w o u l d e n t e r t a i n t h is – l o o k s m o r e – r a t h e r a c o m p la in t t h a n a 20 r e p r e s e n t a ti o n o f t h e a t t o r n e y o f M r M a d h o e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . N o i t m a y w e ll b e I d o n o t k n o w. I t m a y w e ll b e t h a t i t w a s a w r o n g p r o c e d u r e . It m a y w e l l b e t h a t i t w a s a w r o n g p la c e t o s e n d t h e m t o o n th e p a r t o f t h e a c c u s e d ’s la w y e r. I a m j u s t s a y i n g a t t h is s ta g e i t d o e s n o t a p p e a r t o m e t h a t t h e r e is p r o p e r fo u n d a t io n f o r a n y th in g fo r u s to c a n v a s s m o r e . M a y b e w h e n o t h e r a s p e c ts o f M a j o r Page 9 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ’s e v i d e n c e h a v e b e e n d e a l t w i t h w e m i g h t c o m e b a c k to it if there seems to be something. O ne – I do not know what the p r o c e d u r e is . D o w e k n o w ? D o y o u k n o w M a j o r G e n e r a l w h e t h e r t h e r e is a p r o c e d u r e s e t d o w n i n p o li c i e s o r r e g u la t io n s o r t h e s ta t u te t h e r e l e v a n t – t h e s t a tu t e ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir n o t i n t e r m s o f s t a tu t e s . N o t i n th e N a ti o n a l P r o s e c u ti n g A u t h o r i ty A c t n e it h e r i n t h e C o n s t i tu t io n b u t t h e p r o to c o l th a t w e h a v e b e e n fo ll o w i n g o v e r t h e years. 10 CHAIRPERSON : Ja. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d I h a v e e x te n s iv e l y c a n v a s s e d t h is w i th a n u m b e r o f p r o s e c u t o r s . C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , ja . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e p r o t o c o l is … CHAIRPERSON : Ja. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : G o t o t h e D P P. CHAIRPERSON : Ja. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : I n t h i s in s ta n c e h e s h o u l d h a v e g o n e t o th e h e a d o f th e o ffic e A d v o c a t e Mi ll e r 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , ja . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h e n th e D P P. I f t h e y w e r e s t il l n o t s a t is f ie d th e n g o to t h e N D P P. CHAIRPERSON : Ja. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And I do not have a p r o b le m w i t h t h e fa c t t h a t t h e y h a d s e n t i t d ir e c t ly to t h e N D P P ’s o ffic e Page 10 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 to Advocate Mgwebe. CHAIRPERSON : Ja. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : My c o n c e r n is w h y d i d A d v o c a t e M g w e b e d e a l w i th t h e m a t te r i n s t e a d o f r e f e r r i n g i t b a c k t o t h e D P P ’s o ffic e / M y c o n c e r n is w h y d i d A d v o c a t e M g w e b e d e a l w i t h t h e m a t t e r i n s t e a d o f r e f e r r i n g i t b a c k to t h e D P P ’s o ff ic e . CHAIRPERSON : J a . O k a y w h a t w e w i l l d o I t h in k c a n v a s s o t h e r m a t t e r s l a te r o n s e e w h e th e r th e r e is p r o p e r b a s is t o c o m e b a c k t o t h e q u e s t io n . 10 O k a y l e t u s s e e w h e t h e r t h e o t h e r e v id e n c e w i ll p r o v i d e a n y th in g . O n e h a s g o t t o b e a r i n m i n d i f t h e r e a r e n o r u l e s o r s t a t u t o r y p r o v i s i o n s o r p o l ic i e s t h a t s p e c i fy w h e r e r e p r e s e n ta t io n s s h o u l d b e d ir e c t e d a n d m a y b e t h e r e is j u s t a p r a c ti c e . O n e m u s t a ls o c h e c k w h e t h e r t h e r e is a d i s c r e ti o n t o r e f e r o r n o t t o r e fe r o r w h a t e v e r a n d w h a t w e w a n t to m a k e o f i t – w h a t is s o u g h t to b e m a d e o f it . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A s i t p l e a s e s C h a ir. I h a v e j u s t g o t t w o q u ic k q u e s ti o n s i n r e l a ti o n t o th is t h e n . CHAIRPERSON : Ja. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I f I c a n a s k y o u t o t u r n to p a g e 9 2 . C a n y o u r e a d p a r a g r a p h 2 in t o th e r e c o r d p le a s e ? 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : The c o m p l e te paragraph? A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : J u s t – n o t t h e s u b - p a r a g r a p h s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : O k a y. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : J u s t th e t o p p a r a g r a p h – f ir s t h e a d l in e r. Page 11 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : O k a y. “ I n o r d e r f o r t h is o ff ic e t o m e a n i n g fu lly r e s p o n d t o t h e s a i d r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s t h e p r o s e c u to r d e a li n g w i t h t h e m a t t e r m u s t p l e a s e e n s u r e t h a t t h e f o l lo w in g i s s u b m i tt e d t o t h is o ffi c e .” C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y w h e r e is t h a t ? A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O n p a g e 9 2 . C H A I R P E R S O N : 9 2 . Ye s th a n k y o u . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Is it c o r r e c t t h e n t h a t fo ll o w i n g 10 o n fr o m t h e p a r a g r a p h 2 t h e r e is a li s t o f v a r io u s p o i n ts fo r a n a ly s is b y t h e p r o s e c u to r ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN : T h a t is i n d e e d s o C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : I t h i n k g o i n g b a c k to w h a t w e w e r e ta lk in g a b o u t a n d t h is is f o r l a te r o n i f w e l o o k a t t h e is s u e it m a y b e t h a t M a jo r G e n e r a l y o u w a n t to s a y n o t h i n g m o r e th a n s i m p l y t h is t h a t i t w a s s tr a n g e t h a t t h is is h o w t h is – t h e s e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s w e r e d e a l t w i th o r th a t t h is is t h e p e r s o n w h o d e a l t w i t h t h e m b e c a u s e t h e p r a c t ic e f o l lo w in g a n d y o u – m a y b e y o u s a y n o m o r e t h a n th a t . B u t y o u w i ll d e c id e if y o u w a n t to 20 s a y n o m o r e t h a n t h a t o r w h e t h e r y o u w a n t t o i n fe r s o m e th i n g m o r e . S o y o u – y o u c a n j u s t – i t d e p e n d s w h a t y o u h a v e in m i n d . S o i f y o u w a n t t o s a y s o m e t h in g m o r e t h a n t h a t i t l o o k s s tr a n g e o r s o m e t h i n g l ik e t h a t t h e n y o u w ill s a y s o a n d t h e n w e c a n – w e c a n l o o k a t th a t a n d th e n . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : stay – to proceed. Page 12 of 108 C h a ir I a m h a p p y to 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 C H A I R P E R S O N : To p u t i t th a t – y e s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : The reason – and as C h a ir w il l s e e la t e r o n C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN : There is a whole c h a p t e r t h a t d e a ls w i t h c e r t a i n p r o s e c u t o r s a t th e N a t i o n a l Pr o s e c u ti n g A u t h o r i ty. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : 10 T h a t w e r e a lw a y s in v a r i a b ly i n v o lv e d in t h e s e C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : In certain in v e s t i g a t io n s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d A d v o c a te M g w e b e w a s o n e o f th e m C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : So this was merely to s e t th e to n e 20 CHAIRPERSON : YEs. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Where I started to experience C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : F o r t h e v e r y f ir s t ti m e C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Page 13 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : Some sort of I do not w a n t to c a ll i t in t e r f e r e n c e i n t h is in s t a n c e C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B u t la t e r – l a te r o n C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESS EL BOO YSEN : It is clear to me that t h e r e w a s d e fi n i t e l y i n te r f e r e n c e . S o t h is i s m e r e ly s e t ti n g t h e t o n e C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : 10 F o r w h a t is g o i n g to h a p p e n la t e r o n w h e n I d is c u s s t h e p r o s e c u to r s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s y e s o k a y, o k a y. N o t h a t is fi n e . T h a n k y o u . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n t h a t r e g a r d c o u l d I t h e n a l s o ju s t h i g h li g h t th a t p a r a g r a p h 3 o n p a g e 9 2 a s k s v e r y p a r t ic u l a r f a c t u a l d e t a i l e d q u e s ti o n s w h ic h r u n s f o r a t l e a s t o n e a n d a h a l f p a g e s , is t h a t correct? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : page 96 of the same bundle. Then can I ask you to turn to I t a p p e a r s to b e a d o c u m e n t w h ic h is marked Memorandum. 20 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : C a n y o u p le a s e id e n t – a n d i t is d a t e d s o r r y 2 2 J a n u a r y 1 2 p r e s u m a b ly 2 0 1 2 . I t is a n e i g h t p a g e d o c u m e n t . C a n y o u p l e a s e i d e n ti f y w h a t t h is d o c u m e n t is ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : C h a i r t h is is t h e r e s p o n s e I r e fe r r e d t o e a r li e r o n t h a t w a s p e n n e d b y A d v o c a t e B h e k i Page 14 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 M a n y a th i th e p r o s e c u t o r i n t h e m a t t e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d is it y o u r u n d e r s t a n d in g t h a t th is w a s i n fa c t t h e m e m o r a n d u m o f r e s p o n s e t o t h e l e t t e r fr o m Advocate Lawrene Mgwebe? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : That is my u n d e r s t a n d in g C h a ir. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I f I c a n t h e n a s k y o u to q u i c k ly t u r n t o p a g e 1 0 3 a n d r e a d t h e c o n c l u s i o n i n to t h e r e c o r d ? 10 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir t h e c o n c lu s i o n i t is i n p a r a g r a p h 2 6 . “In my view the case against Madhoe is o v e r w h e l m i n g a n d I r e c o m m e n d th a t h e m u s t b e in d i c t e d i n th e h i g h c o u r t .” A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u . D o y o u k n o w w h a t is t h e c u r r e n t e m p lo y m e n t s t a tu s o f A d v o c a te M a n y a t h i ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir w h a t I c a n s a y is I b u m p e d i n to A d v o c a te M a n y a th i a t th e h i g h c o u r t in D u r b a n d u r in g o n e o f o u r a p p e a r a n c e s a n d h e a c t u a l ly c a ll e d m e a s id e . 20 He sent s o m e o n e to f e tc h m e a n d w e w e n t a r o u n d t h e c o r n e r. A n d h e s a i d t o m e G e n e r a l y o u k n o w I a m n o t h a p p y w it h w h a t i s h a p p e n i n g h e r e h e s a i d t o m e . B e c a u s e a t t h a t t i m e w e w e r e b e in g p r o s e c u te d . A n d h e in d i c a t e d to m e t h a t h is s t a n c e i n t h i s m a t t e r h a d c a u s e d h i m t o b e overlooked for promotion. CHAIRPERSON: H’m. Page 15 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d th a t h e i n te n d e d r e s ig n in g fr o m t h e N PA CHAIRPERSON : H’m. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h ic h – a n d I s a w h i m a c o u p l e o f m o n t h s l a t e r o n th e b e a c h fr o n t a n d h e s t o p p e d b y a n d showed me his car that he had bought and he had told me that he had a c t u a ll y g o n e i n t o p r iv a te p r a c ti c e d . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : So as far as I know he 10 is c u r r e n t ly i n p r i v a t e p r a c t ic e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . O k a y t h a n k y o u . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Do you know whether or not w h il s t A d v o c a te M a n y a t h i w a s s t il l p a r t o f th e p r o s e c u t o r i a l s e r v ic e w h e t h e r o r n o t h e w a s p r o m o te d i n a n y w a y ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : C h a ir I a m b e in g – I a m te s ti fy in g n o w w h a t I h a v e b e e n t o l d b y A d v o c a t e M a n y a t h i. H e w a s s h o r t li s te d fo r a p r o m o t i o n a l p o s t b u t a f t e r h e h a d p e n n e d t h is l e g a l o p i n i o n h e w a s o v e r l o o k e d fo r p r o m o ti o n a n d e i th e r r e m o v e d fr o m t h e p o s t o r o v e r l o o k e d fo r p r o m o t i o n . 20 T h e i n d ic a ti o n s w e r e th a t h e w a s going to be promoted. CHAIRPERSON : H’m. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And what I understood fr o m h i m is t h a t b e c a u s e o f h is s t a n c e i n t h is m a t te r h e d i d n o t g e t p r o m o te d . C H A I R P E R S O N : J a . T h e r e is – t h e r e is a li m i t t o w h e r e – h o w fa r o n e Page 16 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 c a n g o w i th m a t t e r s w h i c h a r e b a s e d o n w h a t s o m e o n e e ls e h a s s a id a n d w e ju s t n e e d t o tr e a d w it h c a r e . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A s i t p l e a s e s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : D u r i n g J u n e 2 0 1 2 th e r e w a s a c h a n g e to t h e e n c u m b r a n c e t o t h e a c t in g D P P p o s i ti o n . W e a r e n o w o n page… CHAIRPERSON : W e l l b e f o r e – I a m s o r r y b e fo r e w e – w e g o t t h e r e . A d v o c a t e M g w e b e r e q u e s t e d in f o r m a t io n fr o m t h e p r o s e c u t o r in t h e 10 M a d h o e m a t te r a n d t h e p r o s e c u t o r fu r n is h e d a c o m p r e h e n s iv e r e s p o n s e a t th e e n d o f w h i c h h e s a i d th e r e w a s a n o v e r w h e l m i n g c a s e a g a i n s t Madhoe, Colonel Madhoe. W e s h o u ld – w e s h o u ld – I w a n t t o k n o w w h a t h a p p e n e d – w h a t d e c is i o n i f a n y w a s t a k e n a f te r t h a t a s fa r a s y o u k n o w a n d w h a t h a p p e n e d o u t o f t h o s e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s a n d s o o n , d o you know? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I d o C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Te l l m e . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : C h a ir s o o n a f te r t h is e v e n t a n e w a c ti n g D P P w a s a p p o i n te d in K Z N A d v o c a t e M o ip o n e N o k o 20 a n d a m o n t h o r t w o I c a n n o t r e c a l l e x a c tl y h o w l o n g a f t e r h e r a p p o i n t m e n t s h e w i t h d r e w th e c h a r g e s a g a in s t P a n d a y a n d M a d h o e . CHAIRPERSON : H’m. But you do not – you do not know the c ir c u m s ta n c e s y o u j u s t k n o w th a t t h e c h a r g e s – t h e r e w a s a n e w p r o v i n c i a l D i r e c t o r o f P u b lic P r o s e c u ti o n s a n d s o o n a ft e r – a f t e r th a t appointment the charges were withdrawn? Page 17 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : That is - C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t i s w h a t y o u k n o w. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . O k a y t h a n k y o u . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : F o ll o w i n g t h e w i t h d r a w a l o f t h e c h a r g e s c a n I a s k y o u t o tu r n t o p a g e 1 0 5 p l e a s e ? CHAIRPERSON : D i d y o u – I a m s o r r y – d id y o u e v e r e n q u ir e i n o n e w a y o r a n o t h e r fr o m th e N PA w h a t t h e b a s is w a s f o r th e w it h d r a w a l o f the charges? 10 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSE L BOO YSEN: C h a ir t w o s ig n i f ic a n t t h i n g s o c c u r r e d a t th e ti m e . Th e i n v e s ti g a ti n g o ffi c e r e n q u ir e d fr o m h e r a s t o w h y t h e c h a r g e s w e r e w it h d r a w n a n d s h e w o u l d n o t r e s p o n d t o t h e in v e s t i g a t in g o ff ic e r. S h e d i d n o t g iv e r e a s o n s a t th a t ti m e . CHAIRPERSON : H’m. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : T h e s e c o n d t h i n g is t h e i n v e s ti g a ti n g o ffic e r r e p o r t e d to m e t h a t s h e d i d – A d v o c a t e N o k o d i d n o t w a n t t o r e tu r n t h e d o c k e t . S o s h e k e p t t h e d o c k e t w i t h h e r. CHAIRPERSON : H’m. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESS EL BOO YSEN : 20 Fo r q u i te a p e r io d o f ti m e . CHAIRPERSON : H’m. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : M u c h l a t e r s h e is s u e d a m e d i a s ta t e m e n t a n d I d o q u o t e th a t i n m y a ffi d a v i t C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Page 18 of 108 That she had 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 w i t h d r a w n t h e c h a r g e s i n th e in t e r e s t o f j u s ti c e o r w o r d s t o t h a t e ff e c t but that I do have the exact words. CHAIRPERSON : O k a y. M s S e p t e m b e r w ill d ir e c t y o u t o t h a t p a r t o f y o u r s t a te m e n t i f – w h e n h e w a n ts t o d o t h a t b e c a u s e i t w o u ld b e g o o d t o k n o w. A n d d i d t h e y s ta y w i t h d r a w n – t h e y h a v e n e v e r b e e n r e i n s t a te d , th o s e c h a r g e s ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : C h a ir I d o s p e a k t o t h a t a b i t la t e r o n in m y s t a te m e n t . W h a t h a p p e n e d is a b o u t t w o y e a r s ago. 10 CHAIRPERSON : H’m. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I – a n d i n c o n j u n c ti o n w i t h a j o u r n a li s t h a d w r i t t e n a b o o k a b o u t m y w h a t h a p p e n e d to m e a n d t h e b o o k h a d a p p e a r e d o n l in e I t h i n k t h e M o n d a y a n d I t h i n k th a t w a s t h e T h u r s d a y. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : We were on our way t o C a p e To w n t o a tt e n d t h e l a u n c h o f t h e b o o k . CHAIRPERSON : H’m. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d t h e n s h e t o ld m e 20 t h a t w a s n o w J e s s ic a P i tc h f o r d w e w e r e b o t h g o i n g t o C a p e To w n f o r the release of the book. A n d s h e h a d ju s t w a tc h e d th e – o n th e c e l l p h o n e t h e n e w s . I t w a s t h e n a n n o u n c e d b y A d v o c a te S h a u n A b r a h a ms that Panday and Madhoe would be prosecuted. I had not heard a n y th in g a b o u t it a g a i n u n t il m u c h l a t e r w h e n I b u m p e d in t o a n o t h e r jo u r n a li s t i n D u r b a n Ta n i a B r o u g h t o n a n d s h e s a i d t o m e s h e h a d s e e n Page 19 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 t h e l a w y e r o f P a n d a y a n d M a d h o e a t th e h i g h c o u r t a n d e n q u ir e d f r o m t h e m w h a t th e y w e r e d o i n g th e r e a n d h e t h e n to ld h e r t h a t th e y w e r e – t h a t th e y h a d f il e d a r e v ie w a p p l ic a ti o n f o r th e d e c is io n t o p r o s e c u t e t h e m a n d t h a t c a s e r e f e r r e d s p e c i fic a lly t o t h e a t t e m p t t o b r ib e m e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Chair I do deal with t h a t e x te n s iv e l y l a te r o n . C H A I R P E R S O N : L a t e . N o t h a t is fi n e . T h a t is fi n e . T h a n k y o u . ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: 10 C h a ir ta k e y o u t o p a g e 1 0 5 . I f I c a n t h e n b y t h e d ir e c t io n o f t h e I s t h a t t h e m e d i a s t a t e m e n t th a t y o u r e fe r r e d t o e a r l i e r ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: T h a t is t h e m e d i a ’s – t h a t i s r i g h t C h a ir. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: T h is media s t a te m e n t is d a te d 3 A p r il 2 0 1 3 a n d i t i s ti tl e d “ G r a f t c h a r g e s a g a in s t P a n d a y w it h d r a w n ” . I t a p p e a r s t o h a v e b e e n p u b lis h e d o n th e io l. c o . z a w e b s it e . C a n I a s k y o u t o r e a d t h e la s t t w o p a r a g r a p h s i n t o t h e r e c o r d p l e a s e ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: year 20 th e provincial “ E a r l i e r t h is prosecution boss A d v o c a t e M o i p o n e N o k o i n s tr u c te d t h a t t h e c h a r g e s a g a in s t him and s u p p ly chain unit p o l ic e N a v i n M a d h o e in v o lv in g a n a l l e g e d a tt e m p t t o b r id e K Z N H a w k s H e a d J o h a n B o o y s e n w i th R 2 m il li o n b e p r o v i s i o n a lly w i t h d r a w n . was a p r o s e c u t a b le S h e s a i d t h a t w h i le t h e r e case she Page 20 of 108 had concerns 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 r e g a r d in g “ ju s tic e ” b a s e d o n r e p r e s e n ta t i o n s w h ic h Panday had made and w h ic h needed f u r th e r in v e s t i g a t io n .” ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : If I can then ask you to turn the page a n d r e a d t h e t h ir d s h o r t p a r a g r a p h – s e n te n c e r a t h e r i n to t h e r e c o r d . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: “ B u t S t a te A d v o c a t e D o r ia n P a v e r s a i d th e s t a t e c o u l d n o t proceed “because of p r o b l e ms r e g a r d in g t h e ir p r e p a r a ti o n o f e v i d e n c e ” . ” 10 A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : S o is i t t o b e u n d e r s t o o d t h a t d e s p it e all of the e v id e n c e th a t had been i n v e s t ig a t e d and c o ll a t e d A d v o c a t e N o k o s h o r t ly a f t e r h e r a p p o i n t m e n t a s t h e A c t in g D P P w i t h d r e w th e c h a r g e s a g a i n s t C o lo n e l M a d h o e a n d M r To s h a n P a n d a y ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C h a ir I a m n o t a p r o s e c u t o r a n d I d o n o t w a n t to p r e te n d t h a t I a m a p r o s e c u t o r. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: But I have worked with prosecutors. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Fo r m o r e t h a n 3 0 years. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: d e t e c t iv e s m o r e t h a n 3 0 y e a r s a g o . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 21 of 108 After I joined th e 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I th i n k I a m in a p o s i ti o n t o m o r e o r l e s s s a y w h e n th e r e i s a t le a s t a p r i m a f a c ie c a s e a n d a p r o s e c u t a b le c a s e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: In t h is p a r t ic u l a r in s t a n c e C h a ir e v e r y c o n c e i v a b le ty p e o f e v id e n c e i s i n t h a t d o c k e t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : P h y s ic a l e v i d e n c e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 10 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I . e . f i n g e r p r i n ts . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A c t 7 0 i n te r c e p t io n s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A 2 5 2 A a u t h o r i s a t io n b y th e D P P. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Eyewitness s t a te m e n ts h o w t h e m o n e y w a s p u t i n th e b o o t o f m y c a r. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: T h e r e is e v e n a b a n k note. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: li n k e d w i t h a n a c c o u n t o f To s h a n P a n d a y. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 22 of 108 In the notes th a t 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Th e evidence was overwhelming. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: But in spite of the overwhelming evidence. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: The charges were withdrawn. CHAIRPERSON: 10 a r r e s ti n g H m a n d t h e p o l ic e o ff ic e r s w h o w e r e in v o lv e d i n Colonel Madhoe who observed what happened in the b a s e m e n t o n t h e d a y i n q u e s ti o n h a v e a t a ll m a t e r i a l ti m e s b e i n g a v a i la b le t o g iv e e v i d e n c e . I w o u l d i m a g i n e . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C h a ir e v e r y s i n g l e w i t n e s s fr o m th e . C H A I R P E R S O N : O b v i o u s ly y o u h a v e b e e n a v a il a b l e ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Ye s . Every single witness. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H a d b e e n a v a i l a b le a l l 20 along. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: One u n f o r t u n a t e ly p a s s e d a w a y I t h i n k n o w in D e c e m b e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : L e n S h e r i ff . Page 23 of 108 witness 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: But over and above t h a t a l l t h e w i tn e s s e s e v e r y s i n g l e o n e o f t h e m a r e a v a i l a b le t o t e s t i fy. CHAIRPERSON : Ye s . J u s t , y o u m e n t io n e d e a r li e r o n - a n d m a y b e M s S e p t e m b e r w a s s ti ll g o in g t o d e a l w i th t h a t b u t I j u s t w a n t t o k n o w n o w – y o u m e n t io n e d t h a t y o u le a r n t a t s o m e s t a g e t h a t a p p a r e n tly M r P a n d a y w a s b r i n g i n g a r e v ie w a p p l ic a ti o n i n r e l a t i o n to th e d e c is i o n t o r e i n s t a te c h a r g e s . D id y o u e v e r r e c e i v e a n y c o u r t a p p li c a t io n p a p e r s a s a n i n t e r e s te d p a r ty t o s e e th a t in d e e d t h e r e w a s a r e v i e w a p p l ic a ti o n 10 and you had to deal with it? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I a l s o d e a l w i t h t h a t a b it la t e r o n b u t I c a n a n s w e r y o u n o w. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : Please do. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: What happened is I f o u n d i t s tr a n g e a t th e ti m e t h a t th e r e is a r e v i e w a p p l i c a ti o n a n d I a m n o t e v e n a w a r e o f i t. I would have at least expected myself to have b e e n a c o r e s p o n d e n t . S u b s e q u e n t to t h a t I r e c e i v e d a p h o n e c a l l fr o m A d v o c a t e Mx o l is i N x a s a n a w h o h a d i n f o r m e d m e th a t h e h a d s e e n t h e f o u n d i n g a ffi d a v i t d e p o s e d to b y C o l o n e l N a v i n M a d h o e in t h e r e v ie w 20 a p p lic a ti o n a n d I c a n n o t r e m e m b e r w h o f a v o u r e d m e w i th a c o p y. I m i g h t h a v e g o t t e n i t t h r o u g h a j o u r n a l i s t a n d I r e a d t h e f o u n d in g a ffi d a v i t a n d t h e f o u n d i n g a ff id a v i t n u m b e r o n e M a d h o e l i e s u n d e r o a t h t h e r e b e c a u s e h e s a y s th a t h e is a w it n e s s i n th e C a t o M a n o r c a s e w h ic h h e is n o t . H e h a s n e v e r b e e n o n t h e w i t n e s s l is t . H e h a s n e v e r b e e n a w it n e s s b u t t h a t is n o t t h e r e a l p r o b l e m . T h e r e a l p r o b le m w i t h Page 24 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 t h e f o u n d in g a ffi d a v it is t h a t it is a n a t ta c k o n A d v o c a t e N x a s a n a , a n a tt a c k o n m y s e l f , a n a t ta c k o n M r M c Br i d e fr o m I P I D . A c c o r d in g t o t h e founding a ff i d a v i t it was a c o n s p ir a c y b e tw e e n myself and A d v o c a t e N x a s a n a to h a v e t h e m r e - p r o s e c u te d a n d t h e y a ls o m a d e c e r t a i n a l l e g a ti o n s a g a i n s t M r Mc B r id e . N o w th e f a c t t h a t w e w e r e n o t c o r e s p o n d e n t s I w a s e x p e c t in g A d v o c a t e A b r a h a m s t o a t l e a s t d e n y t h e a l le g a ti o n s a n d a s k u s fo r c o n fir m a t o r y a ffi d a v i t s o r a t le a s t i n fo r m u s t o m a k e a ff i d a v i ts to s u p p o r t h i m i n o p p o s i n g t h e r e v i e w a p p l ic a ti o n . T h e r e v i e w a p p li c a t io n w a s o p p o s e d b u t t h e f a c t th a t w e w e r e k e p t o u t 10 o f th e l o o p t e lls m e t h a t I s u s p e c t i t w a s a p a p e r e x e r c is e b u t th e y n e v e r in t e n d e d p r o s e c u ti n g t h e m b u t w h a t h a d h a p p e n e d C h a i r I e s t a b li s h e d a b o u t p r o b a b ly a b o u t t w o m o n t h s o r t h r e e m o n t h s a g o t h a t t h e m a t t e r h a d b e e n s t r u c k o ff t h e r o ll . C H A I R P E R S O N : S o t h a t m a t t e r h a s b e e n – t h a t r e v i e w a p p l ic a ti o n h a s b e e n p e n d i n g a s fa r a s y o u k n o w f o r - f o r h o w m a n y y e a r s n o w o r fr o m when? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: N o C h a ir. It was s tr u c k o f th e r o l e n o w. C H A I R P E R S O N : J a . W e ll I m e a n y o u m e a n t h e c r i m i n a l m a t te r o r t h e 20 r e v ie w a p p lic a ti o n ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o – s o t h e y t o o k th e d e c is i o n t o p r o s e c u t e b y A b r a h a m s . CHAIRPERSON : Ja. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: O n r e v ie w. That was – s o t h e y m u s t h a v e b e e n i n fo r m e d t w o y e a r s a g o w h e n t h e y d e c i d e d t o Page 25 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 p r o s e c u t e t h e m . T h e y w e r e g o i n g t o ta k e t h e m a t t e r o n r e v ie w. CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : So it had been in and o u t o f c o u r t f o r a w h il e a n d a b o u t t w o o r t h r e e m o n t h s a g o . CHAIRPERSON : Oh, the criminal matter? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: N o t h e r e v ie w m a t t e r C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : The review matter? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e r e v ie w. 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : Th e r e v ie w m a t te r h a s b e e n i n c o u r t a f e w t i m e s . I s that what you are saying? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t y o u s a y i t h a s b e e n s tr u c k o ff t h e r o l l ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I t w a s s tr u c k o ff th e roll. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d my u n d e r s t a n d in g is th a t A d v o c a t e W e n d y O ’ Br ie n fr o m t h e C o m m e r c i a l C r i m e C o u r t i n D u r b a n t h e y a r e p r e p a r i n g t o n o w r e - p r o s e c u t e M a d h o e a n d P a n d a y. 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Fo r t h e a t t e m p t t o bribe me. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: But C h a ir ju n c t u r e m a y b e I m u s t ju s t a l s o m a k e i t e a s ie r t o u n d e r s t a n d . Page 26 of 108 at t h is 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: T h e r e a r e d i ffe r e n t cases. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: T h a t w e p r o b a b ly – t h a t I m e n t io n in m y. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : My statement. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . 10 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: T h e m a in c o r r u p t io n c h a r g e o f R 6 0 m i ll i o n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: That case was d e c l in e d t o p r o s e c u t e a g o o d c o u p l e o f y e a r s a g o . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d w h e n I e v e n t u a l ly w e n t b a c k to w o r k a f t e r m y s u s p e n s io n w a s li f te d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 20 I w r o te t o t h e t h e n new NDPP Advocate Nxasana. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: G iv i n g m y v i e w s o n those charges. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d h e h a d a p p o i n te d Page 27 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 A d v o c a t e G e r r i e N e l. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A t t h e N PA O ff i c e t o r e v ie w a l l t h o s e – a l l t h o s e c a s e s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: My u n d e r s t a n d i n g is a n d o n c e a g a in I a m n o t o ffi c i a l ly b e in g i n f o r m e d o f t h is . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 10 My u n d e r s t a n d i n g is t h a t a n d th is I a ls o l e a r n t t h r o u g h t h e m e d i a . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h e n it – w h e n i t w a s r e p o r t e d t h a t t h e r e v i e w m a t te r fo r t h e c r i m i n a l c a s e o f a tt e m p t e d b r i b e r y h a d b e e n s tr u c k o ff t h e r o l e t h e j o u r n a li s t s t h e n a p p r o a c h e d t h e N a t io n a l Pr o s e c u ti n g A u th o r i ty t o a s k t h e m w h y a r e t h e y n o w n o t p r o c e e d i n g w it h t h a t m a t t e r a n d th e a n s w e r t h e y g o t w a s w e l l t h e y a r e w a i ti n g f o r t h e – f o r t h e o t h e r m a t t e r a s w e ll . T h a t i s t h e 6 0 m il li o n o n e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 20 S o th a t m a t t e r h a d a ls o b e e n ta k e n r e v i e w. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: S o in m y v i e w th e a tt e m p t to b r ib e m e c a n p r o c e e d w it h o u t t h e o t h e r m a tt e r. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 28 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: T h a t is s t ill u n d e r r e v ie w. C H A I R P E R S O N : H m . O k a y, t h a n k y o u . ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: T h a n k y o u C h a ir. Th a t t h e n le a v e s u s w i t h t h e l a s t b l o c k o n th e ti m e s h e e t – ti m e li n e s o r r y. I f I c o u ld a s k y o u t o j u s t t u r n q u i c k l y t o E X H I B I T Z C a n d i n p a r t ic u l a r p a g e 2 . paragraph 6 you document a d d it i o n a l e v id e n c e r e la t in g to At the To s h a n P a n d a y c o r r u p t i o n in v e s ti g a t io n a n d i n p a r ti c u l a r r e g a r d i n g th e r e l e a s e o f th e R 1 5 m i l li o n . C a n y o u p l e a s e i n f o r m t h e C h a ir a b o u t s u c h 10 evidence? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C h a ir what had h a p p e n e d is o n a n d o ff t h e r e w e r e a t t e m p ts t o h a v e t h e 1 5 m i ll io n r e l e a s e d . F o r t u n a t e l y f o r m y s e lf a n d u n f o r t u n a t e ly f o r M r P a n d a y I h a d s o m e o n e fr o m o u r Fi n a n c i a l D e p a r t m e n t w h o w o u l d t e ll m e t h e r e a r e m o v e s a f o o t t o h a v e t h e m o n e y r e le a s e d . s tr a t e g ie s . T h e y d e v is e d a n u m b e r o f F o r i n s t a n c e th e y tr i e d t o h a v e th e m o n e y p a id o u t o f N a t io n a l O ffi c e . T h e y w e r e c o m m u n ic a ti n g d ir e c tl y t o N a t i o n a l H e a d O ff ic e . I d o n o t k n o w w h o m a t N a ti o n a l H e a d O ffi c e a n d a t o n e s t a g e I h a d a s k e d t h is p e r s o n a n d I d o n o t e v e n w a n t t o d is c l o s e th e – t h e 20 g e n d e r o f th is p e r s o n b e c a u s e t h a t p e r s o n w o u ld b e o s tr a c is e d . CHAIRPERSON : Ja. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A t o n e s ta g e I h a d b e e n in f o r m e d – I h a d a s k e d t h i s p e r s o n is it p o s s i b le t o h a v e m o n e y p a i d o u t a t N a t io n a l H e a d O ffi c e if i t is a P r o v in c i a l m a t t e r. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 29 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d I w a s in f o r m e d i t w a s i n d e e d th e c a s e . S o b e t w e e n m y s e lf a n d t h e H e a d o f Fi n a n c e s a t t h e ti m e B r i g a d i e r K e m p . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: W e a g r e e d th a t th a t p e r s o n w o u ld g o i n a t n i g h t a n d c h e c k o n t h e s y s t e m . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Because it would be lo g g e d a t n i g h t. 10 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d t h e n i t w o u ld b e p a i d o u t t h e f o ll o w i n g d a y. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: S o f o r a p r o t r a c te d p e r i o d o f ti m e I h a d t h is p e r s o n g o in g a t n i g h t t o s e e i f it w a s l o a d e d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: On the system and if it h a d b e e n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I would have been c o n ta c t e d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: p r e v e n t t h e m o n e y. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 30 of 108 So that I could 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : To b e p a id o u t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I also approached General Ntanjana at the time. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: The one that passed a w a y. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 10 And I told him b e c a u s e I k n o w th a t t h e r e - a n d I m a n a g e d to g e t h o l d o f t h e c o m m u n ic a ti o n b e tw e e n h i s o ffi c e a n d o u r L e g a l D e p a r t m e n t a n d it w a s c le a r fr o m t h a t t h a t t h e y w e r e c o n t e m p la t in g p a y in g o u t t h e m o n e y. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And I told him – I said t o h i m i f y o u g u y s a r e g o in g to p a y o u t th i s m o n e y w h i le i t is a s u b j e c t o f a c o r r u p ti o n i n v e s ti g a t i o n y o u a r e g o i n g t o m a k e y o u r s e lv e s g u il ty o f c o r r u p ti o n a s w e l l. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B u t C h a ir th a t . 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: What then happened is I g e t a f r a n ti c c a l l fr o m a p e r s o n – w e l l i n o u r e n g a g e m e n ts w i th M r P a n d a y ’s la w y e r s t h e y th r e a t e n e d m e w i t h a ll ty p e s o f t h in g s a n d I t o l d t h e m w e ll l e t u s g o t o c o u r t t h e n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 31 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I f y o u c a n p r o v e th a t t h e s t a te o w e y o u th e m o n e y. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I w il l b e h a p p y t o r e l e a s e t h e m o n e y. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d th e n i t w a s o n 1 J a n u a r y. I c a n n o t r e c a ll t h e y e a r. I g o t a f r a n ti c c a ll fr o m a p e r s o n b y th e n a m e o f C a p ta i n S t e v e n s . 10 ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: C a n I – c a n I ju s t i n te r j e c t a n d a s k y o u d id – d id y o u r e c e iv e t h i s c a ll b e f o r e o r a f te r To s h a n P a n d a y a n d Colonel Madhoe were arrested? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s . A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : S o r r y. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : A p o l o g i e s . N o t a r r e s te d – b e fo r e o r a ft e r t h e c h a r g e s w e r e i n fa c t w it h d r a w n . C a n y o u r e c a ll ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I s u s p e c t i t w a s a ft e r. I w i ll ju s t h a v e t o c h e c k t h e ti m e l in e . 20 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e r e w e r e s o m a n y. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: E v e n ts h a p p e n i n g a t t h e s a m e ti m e a n d s o m e o f th e m I o n ly le a r n t a b o u t a ft e r w a r d s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . S o – b u y y o u t h in k it w a s a f t e r ? Page 32 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I t h in k i t w a s a f t e r C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , o k a y. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : After they were arrested or after the c h a r g e [i n t e r v e n e s ] ? C H A I R P E R S O N : A f t e r t h e w i t h d r a w a l o f th e c h a r g e s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t h i n k a ft e r t h e y w e r e withdrawn. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y. P le a s e p r o c e e d . 10 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C h a ir s o I g o t t h is fr a n t ic c a l l a n d I r e c a l l v iv i d ly I w a s a t t h e d a m o n t h e d a y. It was 1 J a n u a r y w it h m y f a m il y a n d w h e n I l e ft t h e d a m – w h e n I h a d r e c e p t i o n o n my p h o n e a g a i n I s a w I h a d a n u m b e r o f m i s s e d c a l ls . S o I p h o n e d t h e p e r s o n b a c k a n d i t w a s a C a p ta in S t e v e n s a n d h e t o l d m e t h a t h e h a d b e e n a p p r o a c h e d b y Mr To s h a n P a n d a y a n d To s h a n P a n d a y w a n t e d h i m t o a s s is t h i m t o h a v e t h e m o n e y r e le a s e d – t h e R 1 5 m il li o n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: So To s h a n P a n d a y d e v is e d a s t r a t e g y o r a p la n t o h a v e th e m o n e y r e l e a s e d . S o h e s a i d t o 20 C a p t a i n S t e v e n s y o u f r o m p o lic e s i d e y o u m u s t c r e a t e d o c u m e n ts a n d I w i ll c r e a t e i n v o i c e s . S o h e w a s g o in g t o c r e a t e i n v o ic e s f o r R 1 5 m il li o n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: But you cannot just s e n d in v o ic e s if t h e r e w a s n o t a s e r v i c e r e q u ir e d fr o m t h e p o l ic e . Page 33 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : So he said to Stevens y o u m u s t fa b r ic a t e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C a ll u p i n s tr u c ti o n s f o r p o l ic e m a n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: D u r in g th e s o c c e r – World Cup Soccer period. 10 CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d th e n I w i ll d o in v o ic e s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: To m a tc h those fi g u r e s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Th e n w e c a n p r e s e n t it a n d t h e n t h e id e a w a s t h e n t h a t B o o y s e n w o u l d b e h a p p y t o r e l e a s e t h e m o n e y. 20 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I i m m e d ia t e l y on 1 J a n u a r y p h o n e d C a p t a in P e ls e r o n c e a g a in . I s a id t o h i m g e t u s 2 5 2 A a u t h o r i ty w h ic h h e d i d a n d I t o ld A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : C a n I j u s t in t e r r u p t y o u a g a in ? J u s t c la r i fy a g a in w h a t S e c t io n 2 5 2 A i s . Page 34 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C h a ir u n d e r s t a n d in g o f 2 5 2 A a u t h o r i ty i t is t h e C r i m i n a l P r o c e d u r e A c t . my It a u t h o r i s e s a n o s te n s ib l e il l e g a l a c t . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And we normally use t h o s e in s t in g o p e r a ti o n s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : Thank you very much. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: S o C h a ir w e h a d t h is 2 5 2 a u t h o r it y a n d h a v i n g h a d e x p e r i e n c e o f h o w th e y o p e r a t e d I c a l l e d 10 in t h e in v e s ti g a t o r s a n d I s a i d t o th e m y o u n e e d t o d o – n o t th a t th e y h a d n o t d o n e i t p r e v io u s ly b u t I w a n t e d t o e n s u r e t h a t e v e r y t h i n g w a s done according to the book. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I e n l is te d th e a s s is t a n c e o f C r i m e In t e l li g e n c e a n d th e r e w e r e s u b s e q u e n t m e e t i n g s b e t w e e n M r To s h a n P a n d a y a n d C a p ta i n S t e v e n s . T h e r e w e r e p r o b a b ly a b o u t 1 9 . O f t h e 1 9 a b o u t s ix . C H A I R P E R S O N : M e e t i n g s ? 1 9 m e e ti n g s ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 20 T h a t is – t h a t is c o r r e c t C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : B e tw e e n t h e t w o ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Between the two. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: w ir e d e v e r y ti m e h e m e t P a n d a y. Page 35 of 108 So we had Stevens 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : With a camera. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d a r e c o r d e r. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: So the recordings w e r e a u d io a n d v is u a l . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : So there – over these 10 n u m b e r o f m e e t i n g s 1 6 o f t h e m w e r e r e c o r d e d a u d ib ly a n d v is u a lly. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A t o n e s ta g e S t e v e n s h a d a p r o b l e m s w i tc h i n g o n t h e c a m e r a a n d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: That p a r t ic u l a r m e e ti n g w a s n o t r e c o r d e d . CHAIRPERSON: Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: B u t e v e r y t i m e th a t t h e y m e t h e w o u l d r e p o r t th e r e b e f o r e t h e t i m e t o th e i n v e s t ig a t o r s . 20 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I t w o u l d b e r e p o r te d t o t h e D P P d e a li n g t h e 2 5 2 A . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And during some of t h e s e m e e ti n g s P a n d a y w a s g e tt i n g a n x io u s b e c u e S t e v e n s w a s w o r k in g Page 36 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 t o o s l o w ly. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And Stevens was m a k i n g e x c u s e s b y s a y i n g w e ll t h e r e a r e p e o p le w h o n e e d t o c o o p e r a t e fr o m s u p p ly c h a i n m a n a g e m e n t . S o P a n d a y a t o n e s ta g e g a v e S t e v e n s R2 000. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : As a bribe to be paid t o o n e o f th e p e o p l e a t s u p p ly c h a i n m a n a g e m e n t . 10 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: But Stevens came b a c k w i t h th e m o n e y. W e t o o k t h e m o n e y. P u t i t i n a n e x h ib i t b a g a n d it w a s k e p t a s a n e x h i b it . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: At a subsequent m e e ti n g P a n d a y o n c e a g a i n c o m p l a i n e d t h a t S t e v e n s w a s t a k i n g to o lo n g . S o S te v e n s s a id t o h i m w e l l l o o k s o m e o f t h e s e d o c u m e n ts h a v e t o b e s i g n e d b y a B r i g a d i e r. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Now the person in c h a r g e o f d e p l o y m e n t a t t h e ti m e w a s a Br i g a d ie r Ve r n o n H u n t e r. CHAIRPERSON: Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: So Madhoe says to h i m b u t y o u h a v e t o – w e l l t h e n y o u h a v e to f o r g e h i s s i g n a t u r e . N o w C h a ir t h e r e w a s a p r e v i o u s m a tt e r c o m p le t e ly u n r e l a te d to t h i s t h a t Page 37 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 P a n d a y h a d b e e n i n v o lv e d in b u t c o m p l e t e l y u n r e l a t e d to t h is . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t w a s a c iv il m a t t e r i n w h ic h h e h a d p u t i n f a ls e c la i m . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And the – when we did t h e Ac t 7 0 s w e p ic k e d u p o n t h e A c t 7 0 s t h a t a c o u p l e o f m i ll io n R a n d w a s g o i n g to b e p a i d o u t to h i m . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 10 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d th a t t h e r e w a s a p r o b le m w i t h t h e c l a i m . S o w e e n f o r c e d – i n f o r m e d t h e i n s u r e r s a n d in t h a t p a r t ic u l a r i n s t a n c e w h a t h e h a d d o n e w a s h e h a d c u t a n d p a s te t h e s ig n a tu r e o f . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: person. Of a deceased S o h e t e l ls S t e v e n s w h e n y o u f o r g e t h e s e s i g n a t u r e s d o n o t c u t a n d p a s t e . Yo u m u s t m a k e d i ffe r e n t o n e s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o i t l o o k s a u t h e n t ic . 20 CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : We then went to – as p a r t o f t h e 2 5 2 A o p e r a t i o n w e n t to B r i g a d i e r Ve r n o n H u n te r a n d w e t o l d h i m l o o k t h is is w h a t is g o in g o n . Yo u r s ig n a t u r e is g o i n g t o b e f o r g e d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h ic h h e a g r e e d t o . Page 38 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: that that was done we had the LCRC. O n t h e p a r ti c u la r d a y T h a t is t h e l o c a l f i n g e r p r i n t o ffic e c o m e t o – to t h e o ffi c e . CHAIRPERSON: Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d in t h e ir p r e s e n c e each document that had been created by Stevens was photographed b e f o r e th e s ig n a t u r e w a s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 10 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: P la c e d th e r e o n a n d then afterwards. CHAIRPERSON: Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And H u n te r was p r e s e n t a s w e l l w h e r e h is s i g n a t u r e w a s f o r g e d a s p a r t o f t h e 2 5 2 A o p e r a ti o n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C h a ir what a ls o h a p p e n e d is i n th is p r o c e s s P a n d a y w a s g e t t in g q u i te f r a n ti c b e c a u s e S t e v e n s w a s ta k i n g to o l o n g . S o S t e v e n s s a i d t o h i m w e l l y o u k n o w I 20 h a v e t o p r i n t th is s t u ff a n d P a n d a y t h e n – t h e y w e r e c lo s e t o G a t e w a y t h e n . I c a n n o t r e m e m b e r w h e t h e r h e h a d g o n e th e r e h i m s e l f . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Or sent someone to b u y a – a c o m p u t e r a n d a p r i n te r fr o m D io n s a n d h e g a v e h i m t h e w h o le b a g w i t h t h e c o m p u t e r a n d p r i n t e r a n d e v e r y t h i n g w it h t h e r e c e i p t s ti ll Page 39 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 in s i d e t h e r e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: So Stevens came b a c k a n d h e h a n d e d t h a t o v e r t o u s a s w e l l. T h a t w a s a ls o h a n d e d i n a s e x h i b i ts . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C h a ir t h i s c o n ti n u e d f o r a p e r i o d o f ti m e a n d e v e n t u a l ly th e r e w a s e n o u g h e v i d e n c e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 10 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : To a r r e s t P a n d a y o n c e a g a in . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: He was a r r e s te d e v e n t u a l ly. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: He appeared in court b u t u n f o r t u n a t e ly t h a t c a s e h a d a ls o b e e n w i t h d r a w n . CHAIRPERSON : B y – a n d d o y o u k n o w w h o m a d e t h e d e c is io n t o w i t h d r a w th is ti m e ? 20 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir th is ti m e I th i n k t h e r e m i g h t b e – a n d I d o n o t w a n t t o c o v e r m e u p f o r th e p r o s e c u t o r. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B u t I t h i n k th e r e m ig h t b e a l i tt l e b it o f a v a li d e x p l a n a ti o n f r o m t h e p r o s e c u t o r ’s s i d e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Page 40 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: To give them the b e n e fi t o f t h e d o u b t . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A number of these r e c o r d i n g s h a d to b e tr a n s c r i b e d . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d I th in k i t w a s a W h i t e p e r s o n w h o h a d d o n e t h e t r a n s c r i p ti o n s a n d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 10 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: There if you do not liv e in D u r b a n a n d i f y o u d o n o t k n o w t h e l a n g u a g e h o w th e I n d i a n s t a lk y o u m ig h t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: wrong. Yo u might get it S o b e c a u s e I c o u l d s e e fr o m t h e tr a n s c r i p t i o n s i t w a s a n A fr ik a a n s p e r s o n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: W h o h a d tr a n s c r i b e d it . S o th e p r o s e c u t o r w a s n o t h a p p y w i th t h a t . 20 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: What s u b s e q u e n t ly h a p p e n e d t o t h a t c a s e i t w a s s e n t – a t a l a te r s t a g e I w il l t a l k a b o u t t h a t a s w e ll . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : If I can just interrupt you and ask you Page 41 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 t o t u r n t o p a g e 3 a n d p le a s e i d e n t i fy w h o w a s t h e a c t u a l – a p o l o g i e s – page 3 of ZC. On the top of page 3 you were informed that the charges w e r e p r o v is i o n a ll y w i th d r a w n . P le a s e i d e n ti fy w h o t h e p r o s e c u to r w a s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: They were p r o v i s i o n a lly w it h d r a w n b y A d v o c a t e D o r i a n P a v e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, th a n k y o u . T h a n k y o u . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a i r m u c h l a te r w h e n I – a n d I w i ll s p e a k t o th is l a t e r o n . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . 10 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: When M r Mc B r id e s t a r t e d in v e s t i g a t in g a l l t h e s e is s u e s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I handed the docket o v e r to I P I D . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : My u n d e r s t a n d i n g w a s t h a t t h e y h a d – a n d I s p e a k u n d e r c o r r e c t io n – t h a t th e y h a d t h e r e c o r d i n g s tr a n s c r i b e d a g a i n - o n c e a g a i n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: But to date no one h a s a p p e a r e d i n t h a t m a t t e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : In c o u r t . H m , o k a y t h a n k y o u . ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: To y o u r k n o w l e d g e h a s th e R 1 5 m il li o n b e e n p a i d to M r To s h a n P a n d a y ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir b e fo r e I r e s p o n d Page 42 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 t o th a t I j u s t w a n t to a d d w h e n t h e in v o ic e s t h a t P a n d a y e v e n t u a ll y c r e a te d t h e u n d e r s t a n d i n g i s t h a t w e o w e d – w e l l a c c o r d in g t o h i m w e o w e d h i m R 5 0 m i ll i o n b u t i f my m e m o r y s e r v i c e s m e c o r r e c tl y t h e in v o ic e s t h a t t h e y e v e n tu a l ly c r e a t e d a m o u n t e d t o R 7 0 m il li o n . Chair a s fa r a s I a m a w a r e to d a t e t h a t R 5 0 m il li o n h a s n o t b e e n p a i d o u t . CHAIRPERSON : Thank you. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : C a n I th e n t a k e y o u t o p a g e 1 8 - 1 - 8 – o f y o u r a ff id a v i t? I t is a t th is ju n c t u r e t h a t y o u d e a l w i th a d d i ti o n a l in v e s t i g a t io n s t h a t y o u w e r e i n v o l v e d i n . P e r h a p s n o t i n a s m u c h d e ta il 10 a s t h e To s h a n P a n d a y i n v e s t ig a ti o n a n d i n t h a t r e g a r d th e n e x t in v e s t i g a t io n t h a t y o u d e a l w i th in y o u r a ff id a v it is o n e w h i c h y o u h a v e ti t le d t h e “ A m i g o s ” c a s e . In v e r y s i m p le t e r m s p l e a s e e x p la i n w h a t th is “ A m ig o s ” c a s e c o n c e r n e d . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C h a ir w h a t h a p p e n e d is w h e n – w h e n t h e H a w k s w e r e e s t a b li s h e d th e y c o m b i n e d C o m m e r c ia l C r i m e , O r g a n is e d C r i m e a n d th e S c o r p i o n s . T h a t w a s a n i n te r i m a r r a n g e m e n t a n d th e y t h e n f o r m e d t h e H a w k s . S o I i n h e r i te d - f o r la c k o f a b e t t e r d e s c r i p t i o n – th e in v e s ti g a t i o n fr o m th e C o m m e r c ia l C r i m e S e c t io n . 20 Th e r e w a s t h is o n e i n v e s t ig a t io n t h a t w a s k n o w n a s th e “ A m ig o s ” c a s e w h ic h r e l a te d t o th e fr a u d u le n t a c q u is it i o n o f w a t e r p u r i fi c a t io n p l a n t s f o r h o s p i ta ls . I k n o w i n K Z N a n d a fe w o t h e r p r o v i n c e s a s w e ll . Th e r e w e r e a n u m b e r o f a c c u s e d . O n e o f t h e m – a p r o m in e n t a c c u s e d i n t h is m a t t e r w a s a M r G a s to n S a v o i . I th i n k h e w a s a B u l g a r i a n b u s i n e s s m a n a n d h e w a s c h a r g e d in t e r a l ia w i t h tw o p o li t ic i a n s – M ik e M a b u y a k h u lu a n d P e g g y N k o n y e n i . Page 43 of 108 T h e y w e r e b o th 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 p a r t – m e m b e r s o f th e le g i s l a t u r e i n K w a Zu l u - N a t a l a t s o m e t i m e o r o th e r. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: I f I c a n j u s t in t e r r u p t f o r th e r e c o r d c a n y o u p l e a s e s p e ll P e g g y N k o n y e n i a n d M ik e M a b u y a k h u lu ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: N k o n y e n i is N - K - O - Y- E - N - I ( s p e lt ) a n d . C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e r e w i ll b e a n N b e f o r e th e Y. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o r r y C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e r e i s a n N f o r N e ll ie b e f o r e Y. I th i n k y o u o m i tt e d 10 t h e N . N - K - O - N - Y- E- N - I . A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d M a b u y a k h u l u is M - A- B - U - Y- A - K- H - U - L - U . A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : Because it is here. Yo u c a n e v e n j u s t g iv e t h e s p e l li n g y o u r s e l f M s S e p te m b e r. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: S o C h a i r th e y w e r e among the accused – Mr Savoi and Mabuyakhulu and Nkonyeni. What 20 h a p p e n s o n a m o n t h ly b a s is - I w il l c a l l th e i n v e s t ig a to r s a n d t h e n t h e y h a v e t o g iv e fe e d b a c k e s p e c i a l ly o n t h e h i g h p r o f il e c a s e s a n d t h e in v e s t i g a t in g o ff ic e r C o l o n e l P i e t d u P lo o y. in this p a r tic u la r m a t te r was L ie u t e n a n t S o t h e in v e s ti g a t io n h a d a lr e a d y b e e n in a n a d v a n c e d s t a g e w h e n D u P l o o y c a m e o v e r t o m e . S o I w a s n o t p r iv y t o t h e e x t e n t o f t h e e v i d e n c e i n th e d o c k e t b u t n e v e r t h e le s s C h a ir Page 44 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 D u P l o o y t h e n r e p o r t e d to m e t h a t th e t h e n A c t i n g D P P i n K Z N A d v o c a t e Si m p h iw e M l o ts h w a t h e r e w a s p r e s s u r e o n h i m t o w i t h d r a w t h e c h a r g e s a g a i n s t M a b u y a k h u lu a n d N k o n y e n i . S o I s a i d t o h i m P i e t w h a t d o e s t h e e v id e n c e l o o k lik e a n d h e s a i d to m e n o s ir t h e r e is – t h e r e is a s o l id c a s e . I n e v e r – I n e v e r p h y s ic a l ly c h e c k e d th e d o c k e ts b u t h e a s s u r e d m e t h a t t h e r e w a s a s o li d c a s e a n d I s a i d to h i m w h a t is t h e p o s it i o n o f M r M l o t s h w a i n t h e m a t te r – A d v o c a te M l o ts h w a a n d h e s a i d n o M l o ts h w a is p r o c e e d i n g w i th t h e m a t t e r. H e is – h e i s g o i n g a h e a d f u l l s t e a m . S o I w a s h a p p y w it h th a t . 10 ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: Thank you. Are you aware as to w h e t h e r o r n o t a f o r e n s ic i n v e s ti g a ti o n w a s c o n d u c te d i n th is p a r ti c u la r matter? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I a m a w a r e C h a ir. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: Who c o n d u c te d that fo r e n s ic in v e s t i g a t io n ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: If my memory serves m e c o r r e c t ly i t w a s a ls o Pr ic e w a t e r h o u s e C o o p e r. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: A r e y o u a w a r e o f a n y p a r t ic u l a r e v e n t s r e la t in g t o t h e i n v o l v e m e n t o f P r i c e w a t e r h o u s e C o o p e r ’s a n d t h e 20 p r o s e c u t o r s i n v o lv e d – a n d p r o s e c u to r s i n v o lv e d i n th is m a t te r ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C h a ir Colonel d u P l o o y h a d r e p o r t e d t o m e a t s o m e s t a g e t h a t h e a n d o n e o f th e f o r e n s ic a u d i to r s h a d b e e n s u m m o n e d t o P r e t o r i a b y A d v o c a te s Mr w e b i a n d M o s in g a n d t h e m e e ti n g w a s a b o u t t h i s p a r t ic u l a r i n v e s ti g a ti o n a n d I c a n r e c a ll w h e n t h e y h a d c o m e b a c k t h a t D u P l o o y w a s u n h a p p y. I d id Page 45 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 n o t g o in t o t h e d e t a i l o f t h e – o f w h a t h a d o c c u r r e d a t t h e m e e ti n g b u t t h e y c o n v e y e d t o m e th a t w h e n t h e y a r r iv e d t h e r e t h a t i t w a s c l e a r t o t h e m t h a t t h e r e w a s a n o ti o n t h a t t h e r e is n o e v id e n c e a g a i n s t N k o n y e n i a n d M a b u y a k h u lu a n d I t h i n k i t w a s D u P l o o y w h o s t il l s a id w e ll t o e i t h e r o f t h e t w o a d v o c a t e s – e i th e r M o s i n g o r M r w e b i. It looks as if y o u h a v e m a d e u p y o u r m in d a lr e a d y t o - t o n o t p r o c e e d a n d h e b a s ic a lly e x c u s e d h i m s e l f fr o m t h e m e e ti n g . C H A I R P E R S O N : S o h e m u s t h a v e f e l t q u i t e v e r y – q u i t e s tr o n g ly ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e d i d C h a ir. 10 CHAIRPERSON : Ja. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Du Plooy did feel s tr o n g a b o u t i t . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . O k a y. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: Yo u s a i d th a t y o u i n h e r i te d th is m a t t e r. In w h a t y e a r d id y o u i n h e r i t t h e m a tt e r ? I f I c o u l d t a k e y o u t o p a r a g r a p h 5 8 [ in t e r v e n e s ]. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: J a C h a ir t h a t – th a t was when I became the Head of the Hawks in 2010. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . 20 ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : Okay and in paragraph 61 which is at p a g e 1 9 o f y o u r a ffi d a v i t y o u d o c u m e n t w h a t t h e c u r r e n t s t a tu s i s o r r a th e r w h a t th e . CHAIRPERSON : I a m s o r r y M s S e p te m b e r. Let us – the two in v e s t i g a t o r s w e n t to s e e A d v o c a t e M r w e b i ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Page 46 of 108 N o C h a ir. I t w a s th e 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 in v e s t i g a t o r L i e u t e n a n t C o lo n e l P i e t d u P l o o y. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And the fo r e n s ic in v e s t i g a t o r fr o m t h e a u d i t c o m p a n y. I c a n n o t r e c a l l . C H A I R P E R S O N : O h . Ye s [i n te r v e n e s ] . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h o th a t p e r s o n w a s . CHAIRPERSON : Ye s , o k a y. Th e y d i d – j a , t h e in v e s t i g a t o r p lu s t h e p e r s o n fr o m t h e f o r e n s ic in v e s ti g a t i o n t e a m ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir. 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e y w e n t t o s e e A d v o c a t e M r w e b i. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And Advocate Mosing. C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d A d v o c a te M o s i n g . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Anthony Mosing. CHAIRPERSON : advocates were Ye s a n d t h e r e p o r t y o u g o t w a s t h a t t h e t w o saying th a t t h e r e was no evidence against Mr M a b u y o k h u lu a n d M s N k o n y e n i. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : It was a verbal report t h a t I r e c e iv e d . C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , a v e r b a l r e p o r t t h a t y o u ’v e g o t j a . 20 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s , a n d th e w a y I ’v e a r ti c u la t e d t h a t i n my s t a te m e n t i s t h a t th e y w e n t a l o n g w i t h t h e n o ti o n t h a t t h e e v i d e n c e w a s n o t s u ffi c i e n t t o p r o c e e d a g a i n s t t h o s e t w o w h e r e a s d u P l o o y f e lt t h a t t h e r e w a s e n o u g h e v i d e n c e a n d t h a t ’s w h y h e s a id t o t h e A d v o c a t e i t lo o k s li k e y o u ’ v e m a d e y o u r m i n d u p a lr e a d y. CHAIRPERSON : Ye s , y e s , n o w w h a t I w a n t to f in d o u t i s w h a t Page 47 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 h a p p e n e d s u b s e q u e n t to t h a t m e e ti n g , w h a t h a p p e n e d t o , is t h e r e a n y d e c is i o n t h a t w a s t a k e n b y A d v o c a t e M r w e b i a n d A d v o c a t e M o s i n g o r p u r s u a n t t o t h o s e v i e w s t h a t t h e y e x p r e s s e d a c c o r d in g t o w h a t y o u were told? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : C h a ir n o t b y t h e tw o o f t h e m b u t t h e r e w a s a . . .( i n t e r v e n t io n ) C H A I R P E R S O N : It w a s a c h a n g e o f l e a d e r s h ip ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Th e r e was a s ig n if ic a n t c h a n g e o n l e a d e r s h i p i n K Z N w h e n A d v o c a t e Si m p h iw e 10 M l o ts h w a w a s u n c e r e m o n i o u s ly p u s h e d a s id e i n m y v i e w a n d r e p la c e d b y A d v o c a t e M o ip o n e N o k o . CHAIRPERSON : A n d A d v o c a t e M lo t s h w a h a d b e e n a c ti n g P r o v in c i a l D ir e c t o r o f P u b lic P r o s e c u t i o n s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : T h a t ’s c o r r e c t C h a ir t h e a p p o i n te d D P P a t t h e ti m e w a s th e c u r r e n t N D P P, A d v o c a te S h a m il a B a t o h i w h o h a d t h e n g o n e t o T h e H a g u e a n d a n d to th e In t e r n a t i o n a l Court. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : 20 A d v o c a t e Si m p h iw e M l o ts h w a w a s a p p o in t e d a s t h e a c ti n g a n d a t t h i s ju n c t u r e h e w a s r e l i e v e d o f h is d u ti e s a n d r e p l a c e d b y A d v o c a te M o ip o n e N o k o C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , a n d t h e r e p l a c e m e n t w a s i t o n a n a c ti n g b a s is ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN : b a s is C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y a lr i g h t , th a n k y o u . Page 48 of 108 A l s o o n a n a c t in g 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: T h a n k y o u C h a ir. Yo u h a v e ju s t m e n ti o n e d a b o u t t h e c h a n g e i n l e a d e r s h i p , I’ m n o t q u i t e c e r ta i n i f y o u d e a lt w i t h t h is p a r t , b u t h a v e – w h a t i n f a c t h a p p e n e d s h o r t ly a f t e r t h e c h a n g e i n l e a d e r s h ip ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : C h a ir e x a c t ly tw o w e e k s , e x a c tly t w o w e e k s a f te r A d v o c a t e M o i p o n e N o k o t o o k u p h e r p o s t s h e w o u ld d o t h e c h a r g e s a g a in s t o n ly t w o p e o p l e o f a n u m b e r o f a c c u s e d , M a b u y a k h u lu a n d P e g g y N k o n y e n i , a n d I s t il l a s k e d I t h in k i t w a s M r P d u P lo o y C o lo n e l d u P lo o y h o w m u c h e v i d e n c e i s t h e r e a n d I 10 t h i n k s o m e o n e s t il l m a d e t h e s t a te m e n t i f s h e h a d r e a l ly g o n e t h r o u g h t h e e v id e n c e th a t t h e r e w a s i t w o u l d h a v e b e e n e q u i v a l e n t o f r e a d in g a b i b l e p e r d a y fo r 1 4 d a y s . CHAIRPERSON : M mm. So he seems to have shared the view that you m e n ti o n e d e a r l i e r o n t h a t s o m e b o d y s a id t h e r e w a s o v e r w h e l m in g e v i d e n c e o r w a s t h a t in r e g a r d t o t h e o th e r c a s e o f M a d h o e , I t h o u g h t y o u s a i d s o m e b o d y, I d o n ’ t w h e th e r M h lo t w a o r s o m e b o d y s a i d t h e r e w a s o v e r w h e l m i n g e v i d e n c e b u t I m a y b e c o n f u s in g t h e A m i g o c a s e w i th the Madhoe case. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o , n o in th e M a d h o e 20 c a s e i t w a s m y v ie w, i n t h i s m a tt e r it w a s th e v ie w o f L t C o l d u P l o o y who reported to me. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e w a s c o n f id e n t t h a t t h e y h a d a s tr o n g c a s e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s , o k a y. A n d fr o m w h a t h e to ld y o u A d v o c a t e Page 49 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 M h lo t w a w a s c o n fi d e n t a s w e ll ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A b s o lu t e l y C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y t h a n k y o u . ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER : Is Advocate Noko who withdrew the c h a r g e s a g a i n s t t h o s e t w o p a r t ic u l a r i n d iv id u a ls i n th is c a s e t h e s a m e A d v o c a t e N o k o w h o w i th d r e w t h e c h a r g e s a g a i n s t C o l o n e l M a d h o e a n d Mr Thoshan Panday? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s s o C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e w i t h d r a w a l o f th e c h a r g e s a g a i n s t M r P a n d a y a n d 10 Colonel Madhoe it did also happen after Advocate Noko had replaced A d v o c a t e M h l o tw a ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir, w i t h i n tw o w e e k s a f te r A d v o c a t e N o k o t a k i n g u p a p o s t a s a c ti n g D P P s h e withdrew the charges against Mabuyakhulu and Nkonyeni. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : And then I think about t w o o r t h r e e m o n th s la t e r s h e w i t h d r e w th e c h a r g e s a g a i n s t P a n d a y a n d Madhoe. C H A I R P E R S O N : M a d h o e , o k a y, t h a n k y o u . 20 ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: Ar e y o u a w a r e G e n e r a l B o o y s e n w h e t h e r o r n o t t h e r e w a s a c h a n g e to th e p r o s e c u t o r w h o w a s a s s ig n e d t o t h i s p a r ti c u l a r c a s e ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : C h a ir o b v io u s ly t h e in v e s t i g a t o r i s g iv in g m e f e e d b a c k I k n e w w h o t h e a d v o c a te s w e r e th a t w e r e d e a l in g w i t h t h e m a t t e r s o t h e a d v o c a te t h a t d e a l t w i th t h e m a t t e r Page 50 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 a t t h a t s t a g e w a s A d v o c a te N d u n j w a . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : He was the p r o s e c u t o r, th is in v e s ti g a t io n h a d a n u m b e r o f l e g s t h e r e w a s o n e in t h e Eastern Cape that I recall and we had the KZN leg, and Advocate N d u n j w a fr o m t h e D P P ’s o ff ic e in K Z N h e w a s d e a li n g w i t h th e m a t t e r, a n d I k n o w f o r a fa c t th a t A d v o c a t e N d u n j w a a l s o fe l t s tr o n g ly a b o u t t h e c a s e a n d a f t e r t h e c h a r g e s w e r e w i t h d r a w n th e d o c k e t w a s t a k e n a w a y fr o m h i m a n d h a n d e d o v e r to A d v o c a t e W i m b a n e fr o m t h e C o m m e r c i a l 10 Crimes Court in Durban. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER : W h a t is t h e c u r r e n t s t a tu s o f t h e c r i m i n a l m a t te r a g a i n s t th e t w o i n d iv i d u a l s w h o m y o u h a v e m e n ti o n e d , s u c h b e in g P e g g y N k o n y e n i a n d M ik e M a b u y a k h u l u ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Chair as far as I know t h e r e w a s a t o n e s ta g e a r e v i e w a p p l i c a ti o n i n th e H i g h C o u r t i n P i e t e r m a r i tz b u r g a n d I c a n n o t r e c a ll w h o b r o u g h t i t, i t c o u l d h a v e b e e n t h e D A , I d o n ’t k n o w w h a t t h a t w a s a b o u t , a n d I ' v e a ls o b e e n i n fo r m e d b y t h e i n v e s ti g a ti n g o ffic e r t h a t Mr G a s t o n S a v o y, I s u s p e c t th a t h e 20 w a n ts t o b r i n g a n a p p li c a t io n fo r a p e r m a n e n t s t a y o f p r o s e c u ti o n a n d I d o n ’t w a n t t o s p e c u la t e , I ’ m m e r e ly ta lk in g f r o m w h a t I ’v e h e a r d fr o m t h e i n v e s ti g a to r s b e c a u s e h is a r g u m e n t i s w h y a r e th e y w i th d r a w i n g charges against those two and not against the rest of the accused, but I d o n o t k n o w t h e d e ta il o f t h a t m a t t e r, b u t a s i t s t a n d s . . .( in t e r v e n ti o n ) C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e p r o s e c u ti o n h a s n e v e r b e e n p u r s u e d e v e n a g a i n s t Page 51 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 t h o s e o th e r a c c u s e d w h o – a g a in s t w h o m n o w w i t h d r a w a l h a p p e n e d ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : N o I t h i n k i t’s p r o c e e d i n g C h a ir a g a i n s t t h o s e . C H A I R P E R S O N : O h , i t’s p r o c e e d i n g a g a in s t t h o s e . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : A s f a r a s I’ m a w a r e it ’s s t il l o n th e r o l l . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, o k a y. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER : J u s t t o m a k e s u r e I to o u n d e r s t a n d it ’s p r o c e e d in g a g a i n s t a l l o t h e r a c c u s e d o t h e r th a n P e g g y N k o n y e n i 10 a n d M ik e M a b u y a k h u la a g a in s t w h o m t h e c h a r g e s w e r e w i t h d r a w n ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t ’s s o C h a ir. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u . T h a t t h e n ta k e s u s t o t h e n e x t in v e s t i g a t io n t h a t y o u d e a l w i th i n y o u r a ff id a v i t, fr o m p a g e 1 9 p a r a g r a p h 6 2 t o 7 4 , t h i s p a r tic u l a r i n v e s t ig a ti o n y o u h a v e m a r k e d a s lo o ti n g o f th e s e c r e t s e r v ic e s a c c o u n t . I s t h a t c o r r e c t ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t ’s c o r r e c t C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : B e f o r e y o u s t a r t w i th t h a t j u s t t o g o b a c k o n th e A m i g o s c a s e t h a t ’s b e e n p e n d in g f o r a l o n g ti m e a n d d i d y o u s a y i t w a s r o u n d a b o u t 2 0 1 0 o r th e r e a b o u t w h e n it s t a r t e d , a s fa r a s y o u k n o w ? 20 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a i r I w a s a p p o in t e d a s th e h e a d o f t h e H a w k s i n K Z N i n 2 0 1 0 , a n d I t h i n k th a t c a s e w h e n I in h e r i t e d it w i t h D u P lo o y b e i n g t h e in v e s ti g a ti n g o ffi c e r it c o u l d h a v e b e e n a y e a r p r i o r t o t h a t , o r e v e n m o r e , b u t I c a n n o t r e c a ll . C H A I R P E R S O N : S o c e r t a i n l y w h e n y o u w e r e a p p o i n te d in 2 0 1 0 i t w a s a lr e a d y p e n d i n g ? Page 52 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t ’s r ig h t C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : appearance in I n th e s e n s e o f i t b e i n g u n d e r in v e s ti g a t io n w i t h n o court a l r e a d y, or do you think there had been a p p e a r a n c e i n c o u r t a lr e a d y b y t h e ti m e y o u w e r e a p p o i n te d ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o C h a ir w h e n I w a s a p p o i n t e d b y t h e n I c a n r e c a ll t h e y h a d t h e – a ll t h e a c c u s e d s i t ti n g t h e r e i n t h e b o x , t h e r e ’s a n e w s p a p e r p h o t o g r a p h a n d t h a t’s w h e r e th e n a m e A m i g o s c a m e fr o m . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , ja , ja . 10 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : S o w h e n I i n h e r i te d D u P l o o y w i t h h is in v e s ti g a t io n t h a t a l r e a d y a p p e a r e d a n u m b e r o f ti m e s . C H A I R P E R S O N : S o t o s a y t h e lis t i t’s b e e n g o i n g o n y o u w o u l d s a y n o le s s t h a n n in e y e a r s ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I w o u l d e v e n s a y te n y e a r s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : Or even ten years. And as far as you know are you a b l e t o s a y o r m a y b e y o u a r e n o t a b l e b e c a u s e y o u mi g h t n o t h a v e lo o k e d a t t h e e v id e n c e , a r e y o u a b le t o s a y r o u n d a b o u t w h e n a s f a r a s 20 y o u k n o w th e r e w a s e n o u g h e v i d e n c e fo r t h e tr ia l to p r o c e e d ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : C h a ir w h e n I – w h e n D u P l o o y c a m e o v e r t o m e f r o m C o m m e r c ia l C r i m e w h a t I d id n o t m e n ti o n i s p r i o r t o t h e m c o m i n g o v e r t o m e I w a s a B r i g a d ie r i n c h a r g e o f O r g a n i s e d C r i m e a n d my c o u n te r p a r t fo r C o m m e r c ia l C r i m e w a s L a t e g a n , B r i g a d i e r L a t e g a n . N o w o n c e e v e r y q u a r te r o r e v e r y n o w a n d Page 53 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 a g a in w e h a d t o – t h e t w o o f u s h a d n o w t o g o a n d g i v e f e e d b a c k p e r t a in in g to o u r in v e s ti g a t io n s t o t h e p e r s o n w h o w a s th e n m y i m m e d i a t e s u p e r v i s o r, C o m m i s s io n e r P a t Br o w n , G e n e r a l P a t B r o w n a n d I c o u l d r e c a l l, a l t h o u g h I d i d n o t t a k e m u c h n o ti c e o f L a t e g a n ’s f e e d b a c k b u t I c o u ld r e c a ll t h a t th e r e w a s d is c u s s io n s b e tw e e n h i m a n d B r o w n t h a t t h e y w e r e g e tt i n g q u e s ti o n s f r o m I t h i n k i t w a s t h e P o r t f o l i o C o m m i t t e e , I’ m n o t to o s u r e b e c a u s e I d i d n o t r e a l ly p a y a t t e n t io n t o h is c a s e s , b e c a u s e i t d i d n ’ t c o n c e r n m e a t t h a t t i m e , w h e r e q u e s t io n s w e r e a s k e d a b o u t th e d e t a il o f th e i n v e s ti g a ti o n , a n d I r e c a ll th a t B r o w n 10 a l w a y s u s e d t o s a y t o L a t e g a n j u s t g iv e t h e m t h e n e c e s s a r y, th e c a s e h a s b e e n r e m a n d e d , o r s t il l u n d e r i n v e s ti g a ti o n , b u t w h e n I – w h e n D u P l o o y c a m e o v e r t o m e b y t h e n th e i n v e s t ig a ti o n w a s c o m p l e te a n d I s a y t h i s C h a ir f o r t h e f o l l o w in g r e a s o n , t h e y w e r e c h a r g e d f o r r a c k e t e e r i n g , n o w i n te r m s o f t h e P r e v e n t io n o f O r g a n is e d C r i m e A c t I t h i n k i t’s S e c t i o n 2 1 , y o u c a n o n l y p r o s e c u te a p e r s o n f o r r a c k e te e r in g if t h e r e ’s a n a u t h o r is a ti o n b y t h e N D P P, s o t h e N D P P w o u l d n o t h a v e a u t h o r i s e d th a t i n v e s ti g a ti o n if it h a d n o t b e e n c o m p le t e d , s o i n m y v ie w w h e n D u P l o o y c a m e o v e r t o m e w i t h h is i n v e s ti g a ti o n a n d h a v in g a lr e a d y h a v i n g b e e n – h a v i n g a p p e a r e d i n c o u r t , a s f a r a s I’ m 20 c o n c e r n e d th e i n v e s t ig a ti o n w a s c o m p l e t e . CHAIRPERSON : O k a y n o th a t ’s fi n e . I do seem to remember that t h e r e m a y h a v e b e e n a c a s e i n v o l v i n g Mr S a v o y, w h i c h w e n t u p t o t h e C o n s t i tu t io n a l Court, it may have had s o m e t h in g to do w ith . . .( i n te r v e n t io n ) M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o C h a ir I k n o w a b o u t Page 54 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 t h a t , Mr S a v o y th e y a p p li e d t o th e C o n s t it u ti o n a l C o u r t t o s a y t h a t c e r t a i n a s p e c t s o f t h e P r e v e n t io n o f O r g a n is e d C r i m e Ac t w e r e u n c o n s t i tu t io n a l , I a c t u a ll y attended that p a r ti c u l a r case at th e C o n s t i tu t io n a l C o u r t b u t I c a n n o t r e m e m b e r t h e p h r a s e b u t th e y s a y i t w a s a n a c a d e m i c a r g u m e n t , th e y s h o u l d w a i t fo r s u c h a c a s e to c o m e a n d th e n a r g u e i t . C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , n o I th i n k I r e m e m b e r t h a t c a s e b e c a u s e I w o u l d h a v e s a t in t h e m a t t e r, b u t t h a t mi g h t b e p a r t o f t h e r e a s o n fo r t h e d e l a y i n t h e f in a l is a ti o n o f t h e m a t t e r i f t h e r e w a s a c h a ll e n g e t o t h e 10 s t a tu t e s t h a t m i g h t b e p a r t o f th e r e a s o n f o r t h e d e l a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : T h a t c o u l d b e C h a ir b u t I th in k t h a t m a tt e r h a d b e e n d is p o s e d o f .. .( i n t e r v e n ti o n ) C H A I R P E R S O N : A lo n g ti m e a g o . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : About seven years ago. CHAIRPERSON : Ye s , o k a y, t h a n k y o u . I t h i n k l e t ’s t a k e t h e s h o r t a d j o u r n m e n t , a n d w e w il l r e s u m e a t h a l f p a s t e l e v e n . W e a d j o u r n . A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. I N Q U I RY A D J O U R N S 20 I N Q U I RY R E S U M E S C H A I R P E R S O N : M a j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n y e s t e r d a y I in t i m a te d t h a t w e m i g h t u s e t w o h o u r s t o d a y to h e a r y o u r f u r th e r e v i d e n c e . Tw o h o u r s w o u ld ta k e u s to tw e lv e o ’ c l o c k . I s i t fi n e w i th y o u i f w e g o u p t o h a l f p a s t t w e lv e ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN : Page 55 of 108 Chair I am in your 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 hands. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a n k y o u v e r y m u c h . T h a n k y o u . O k a y. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. Just befo re t h e a d j o u r n m e n t w e w e r e a b o u t t o s t a r t o n th e n e x t i n v e s t ig a ti o n t h a t y o u w e r e i n v o l v e d i n a n d t h a t t a k e s u s t o p a g e 1 9 o f y o u r a ffi d a v i t w h ic h is in b u n d le Z A a n d i n p a r t ic u l a r p a r a g r a p h 6 2 . Yo u h a v e t it l e d o r r a t h e r n a m e d t h e in v e s t i g a t io n L o o t in g o f t h e S e c r e t S e r v i c e s A c c o u n ts . 10 I n v e r y s i m p l e t e r ms c a n y o u p l e a s e e x p l a i n w h a t t h i s in v e s t i g a t io n c o n c e r n e d ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : C h a ir t h is in v e s t i g a t io n r e l a te d t o t h e a b u s e o f t h e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s Ac c o u n ts . T h e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s A c c o u n t i s m o n i e s th a t m u s t b e u ti li s e d b y c r i m e in t e l li g e n c e f o r c o v e r t o p e r a t io n s s p e c i fic a lly f o r o r g a n is e d c r i m e . T h e S e c r e t S e r v i c e s Ac c o u n t i s n o t – is n o t b e i n g a u d i t e d i n th e s i m il a r f a s h i o n a s t h e o p e n a c c o u n t is b e i n g a u d i te d . Al t h o u g h th e r e a r e c o m m i t t e e s a t p a r l i a m e n t t h a t h a v e – t h a t h a s o v e r s ig h t o v e r th e i r budget. B u t b e t h a t a s it m a y s o m e ti m e a g o a n d I c a n n o t r e c a ll t h e e x a c t p e r i o d t h is – t h e w h is tl e b l o w e r in th is w h o le m a t te r w a s a p e r s o n 20 b y t h e n a m e o f G e n e r a l M a r k H a n k e l fr o m C r i m e I n t e l li g e n c e w h o w r o te a r e p o r t a b o u t h o w th is f u n d w a s b e in g a b u s e d b y i n d iv i d u a ls w i t h i n C r i m e I n t e l li g e n c e . A n d a t t h e ti m e I t h in k G e n e r a l D r a m a t w a s t h e h e a d o f t h e H AW K S t h e n a t io n a l h e a d a n d h e a p p o in t e d C o l o n e l K o b u s R o e lo fs e fr o m th e W e s t e r n C a p e w h o I w o u ld d e s c r ib e a s t h e C h i e f I n v e s ti g a t o r i n t h e lo o ti n g o f t h e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s A c c o u n t. Page 56 of 108 Th a t 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 in v e s t i g a t io n p o i n te d f i n g e r s t o w a r d s t h e t h e n h e a d o f t h e d iv is i o n a l c o m m i s s io n e r o f c r i m e i n te ll i g e n c e L u i e t e n a n t G e n e r a l R ic h a r d M d l u l i . S o t h a t in v e s t i g a t io n h a d b e e n g o i n g o n f o r q u i t e a w h i le a n d I a ls o k n o w a t th e p a r t ic u l a r ju n c t u r e w i th i n t h a t i n v e s ti g a t i o n t h a t G e n e r a l S h a d r a c k S i b i y a fr o m G a u t e n g h a d a ls o r e o p e n e d t h e – a n in v e s t i g a t io n in t o t h e m u r d e r o f a p e r s o n . I t h i n k i t w a s i n Vo s l o o s r u s I c a n n o t r e c a ll e x a c tl y w h e r e – in w h ic h i t w a s a ll e g e d t h a t R ic h a r d N d l u li a ls o h a d a h a n d in . T h a t in v e s t i g a t io n I a m n o t p r i v y t o t h a t i n v e s ti g a ti o n a l t h o u g h a l o t o f r e p o r ti n g a b o u t t h a t h a d b e e n d o n e i n t h e m e d i a . B u t w h e r e m y 10 in v o lv e m e n t c o m e s i n i s a t a m u c h l a t e r s t a g e w h e n t h is in v e s ti g a t i o n h a d b e e n i n it i a t e d t h e t h e n a c t i n g N a t io n a l C o m m i s s io n e r a t t h e t i m e fr o m th e p o l ic e G e n e r a l Mk w a n a z i . I d o n o t k n o w w h e t h e r h e h a d b e e n in f o r m e d b y s o u r c e s w i th i n C r i m e I n te l li g e n c e b u t h e in s ti t u t e d a s e p a r a t e le g o f in v e s t i g a t io n s r e l a t i n g t o t h e a b u s e o f t h e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s A c c o u n t i n K w a Zu l u N a ta l . I h a d a B r i g a d ie r a t s o m e p o i n t w h o w o r k e d w i th m e i n K w a Z u l u N a ta l B r i g a d i e r S i m o n M a d o n s e l la . H e is n o t r e la t e d . I w a s – b e i n g a s k e d t h e q u e s ti o n b u t h e is n o t r e l a te d t o T h u li M a d o n s e l la t h e A d v o c a t e . S o h i s w i f e h a d ta k e n ill a n d h e a s k e d f o r a tr a n s fe r t o P r e t o r i a w h i c h I a r r a n g e d f o r h i m . W h e n h e a r r iv e d i n 20 P r e t o r i a o n e o f t h e f ir s t i n v e s ti g a t i o n s t h e y a ll o c a te d to h i m I t h i n k i t w a s a l lo c a t e d to h i m b y G e n e r a l M o t h i b a w a s t o i n v e s t ig a t e th e c a s e a t [i n d is t in c t] o f t h e l o o t i n g o f t h e S e c r e t S e r v i c e s A c c o u n t b y C r i m e I n t e lli g e n c e . I r e c a ll M a d o n s e ll a c o m in g t o m e e x p r e s s in g h is fr u s tr a ti o n b e c a u s e C r i m e I n t e l li g e n c e f a i l e d o r r e f u s e d to m a k e c e r t a i n d o c u m e n ts a v a il a b l e to h i m t o – to a s s is t in t h e i n v e s t ig a ti o n . S o I – Page 57 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 h e w o u ld o f t e n c o m e to m e i n D u r b a n b e c a u s e w e h a d – w e w e r e q u i t e c lo s e a n d w e a r e s ti ll c l o s e . A n d I w o u l d s a y to h i m , S i m o n t h e b e s t w a y to g e t t h e s e d o c u m e n ts is t o – to 2 0 5 i t a n d j u s t f o r – t o e x p l a i n 2 0 5 a g a in . I t is S e c t i o n 2 0 5 s u b p o e n a i n t e r m s o f Th e C r i m i n a l P r o c e d u r e A c t w h e r e b y w e o b t a i n d o c u m e n t s fr o m i n s ti t u ti o n s o r in d i v i d u a ls t h a t c a n a s s is t u s i n o u r i n v e s t ig a ti o n . A n d h e w o u ld c o n ti n u o u s ly s a y t o m e n o t h e y p r o mi s e d t h e y w o u l d g i v e i t t o h i m a n d t h e n h e w o u l d c o m e b a c k a n d s a y n o t h e y fr u s tr a ti n g h i m . A n d I r e c a l l a t o n e ju n c t u r e t h e y c a m e t o 10 my h o u s e a n d t h e y s h o w e d m e t h e d o c k e ts a n d I a s k e d Br i g a d i e r M a d o n s e l la if I c o u l d m a k e c o p ie s o f t h e d o c k e ts a n d h e s a i d to m e n o I c a n n o t m a k e c o p i e s o f t h e d o c k e ts . A n d I a s k e d h i m i f h e w o u l d m i n d i f I t a k e n o t e s f r o m t h e d o c k e ts . H e s a i d n o t h a t is fi n e . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : for a second? Can I just interrupt you there Is i t t h e n o u r u n d e r s t a n d in g – is t h e n y o u r e v id e n c e s o r r y t h a t y o u a s s is t e d B r i g a d i e r M a d o n s e l la ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n h i s i n v e s t ig a ti o n i n r e l a ti o n t o t h e K Z N a r m o f t h e lo o ti n g o f th e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s Ac c o u n ts ? 20 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : S o w e r e y o u fo r m a l ly i n v o lv e d in t h e p r o c e s s ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o I w a s n o t C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : O k a y y o u – y o u s a i d th e y c a m e t o y o u o n e o f th e m w a s M r M a d o n s e l l a a n d w h o e ls e w a s – w a s w i t h h i m w h e n y o u a s k e d i f Page 58 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 y o u c o u ld m a k e c o p i e s o f th o s e d o c u m e n ts ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir t h e r e w e r e t h r e e p e o p l e w e l l t w o o f th e m I k n e w v e r y w e l l. I t w a s Br ig a d i e r S i m o n M a d o n s e ll a a n d t h e n th e r e w a s a n o th e r p e r s o n a s w e l l a s L i e u t e n a n t Z u n g u a n d t h e y a ls o h a d w o r k in g w it h t h e m a C a p ta i n H e e r la l . H e e r l a l w a s f r o m P r e to r i a a n d Zu n g u a n d M a d o n s e ll a o r i g i n a t e d f r o m K Z N . C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e d o c u m e n ts t h a t t h e y c a m e t o s h o w y o u w e r e th e y d o c u m e n ts t h a t t h e y h a d o b ta i n e d b y fo ll o w i n g y o u r a d v i c e ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o C h a ir. 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : O h o k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : At that juncture Chair t h e y w e r e a ll a ffi d a v i ts . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : And some documents, p o li c e d o c u m e n t s . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : And Chair I made – I wrote down.. C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u m a d e n o t e s – y o u m a d e n o t e s 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : I made notes. I wrote d o w n t h e n a m e o f e a c h w i t n e s s i n t h a t – o f e a c h s t a te m e n t t h a t – t h a t w a s f il e d i n t h e d o c k e t . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o I w o u l d w r it e d o w n a n d i f i t w a s a p o li c e p e r s o n I w o u l d w r i t e h is o r h e r p e r s e l n u m b e r Page 59 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 d o w n s o i t w o u l d b e e a s y to lo c a t e th e m a f t e r w a r d s . CHAIRPERSON : H’m. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d i f i t w a s a p r iv a te p e r s o n I w o u ld w r i t e h i s c o n ta c t d e t a i ls d o w n a n d th e n I w o u l d ju s t w r i t e a li t tl e [i n d is t in c t] o f t h e w i tn e s s o r p e r s o n s a i d i n h is s t a t e m e n t . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : C a n I ju s t a t t h is j u n c tu r e ta k e y o u t o p a g e 1 3 1 o f y o u r a ff id a v i t p le a s e ? N o t o f y o u r a ffi d a v i t o f bundle ZA. C H A I R P E R S O N : I s i t 1 3 1 o f E x h ib i t Z A ? 10 A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : C h a ir t h o s e a r e m y c o n te m p o r a r ie s h a n d w r it t e n n o te s a c o p y t h e r e o f . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : C a n y o u p l e a s e p r o c e e d th e n t o ju s t e x p l a i n a s y o u w e r e e x p l a i n i n g t h e o r d e r o f w h a t y o u h a d d o c u m e n t e d a n d t h e n a tu r e o f i ts c o n t e n ts ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: S o C h a ir t h a t is b a s ic a lly w h a t I d i d . I m a d e a s h o r t p r a is e e o f w h a t e a c h w i tn e s s s a id 20 a n d I k e p t t h o s e n o te s . I t w a s c o m m o n c a u s e i n K Z N e s p e c ia lly amongst th e Crime I n te ll i g e n c e Fraternity th a t Brigadier Simon M a d o n s e ll a a n d m y s e l f w e r e j u s t m o r e t h a n c o ll e a g u e s w e w e r e a c t u a ll y p e r s o n a l f r i e n d s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : Page 60 of 108 I k n o w h is c h il d r e n , 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 h e k n o w my c h il d r e n , h e v is i ts m e , I v is i t h i m e t c e t e r a . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d h e w o u l d fr e q u e n t m y o ff ic e a n d t h e y k n e w t h a t I w a s a s s is t in g h i m . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : A n d a d v is i n g – n o t a s s is t h i m b u t a d v is i n g h i m . CHAIRPERSON : Ja. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN : 10 I n t h i s p a r ti c u l a r m a t t e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h is t h i n g c a r r i e d o n a b o u t h a v in g th e s e d o c u m e n ts p r o v i d e d t o h i m fr o m C r i m e I n t e l li g e n c e . S o e v e n t u a ll y h e to o k u p m y a d v ic e a n d h e a p p li e d f o r a S e c ti o n 2 0 5 subpoenas which were granted. CHAIRPERSON: Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : A n d I r e c a ll h i m c o m i n g to m y o ffi c e a n d s a y i n g t o m e h e is g o in g to c o u r t n o w. T h a t p a r t ic u l a r m o r n i n g t h e m a g is tr a t e h a d m a d e a r u l i n g t h a t t h e y m u s t 20 s u b m i t th e d o c k e ts a n d h e w a s v e r y e x c i te d t h a t h e w a s e v e n t u a l ly g o i n g t o g e t t h o s e d o c k e ts t o fo r m a l is e h is i n v e s t i g a t io n s . A n d t h e n t h e next moment he left for court and the next moment about an hour later h e p h o n e s m e . A n d I s a i d t o h i m – w e c a l l e a c h o t h e r M f o y t u . I s a id to him Mfoytu where are you now? He says, no I am on my way back to P r e t o r i a . I s a i d , I t h o u g h t y o u a t c o u r t . H e s a y s n o w h e n t h e y a r r iv e d Page 61 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 a t c o u r t a s e n i o r o ff ic e r fr o m C r i m e I n t e ll i g e n c e h a d c o m e t o c o u r t a n d t o l d t h e m a g is tr a t e t h a t t h e r e w a s a n a g r e e m e n t o f s o m e s o r ts . CHAIRPERSON : hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B u t it is n o t n e c e s s a r y a n y l o n g e r fo r t h e d o c u m e n ts to b e r e le a s e d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : So Brigadier M a d o n s e ll a g o t i n t o h is c a r a n d h e d r o v e b a c k t o Pr e to r i a . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 10 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN : So he phones me b a c k f r o m P r e t o r ia a n d h e s a y s to m e – h e is v e r y u p s e t n o w b e c a u s e – I s a id t o h i m w h a t h a p p e n e d ? H e s a y s n o w h e n h e a r r iv e d a t P r e t o r ia h e w e n t t o G e n e r a l M o t h i b a ’s o ffi c e a n d h e w a s t o l d t o h a n d o v e r a ll t h e d o c k e ts , a ll fi f t e e n d o c k e ts to G e n e r a l M o t h i b a . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : He then said to me M o t h i b a s a id to h i m w e l l t h is i s a n in s tr u c t io n f r o m t h e N a t i o n a l C o m m i s s i o n e r a t t h e t i m e R i a P h i y e g a , G e n e r a l R ia P h iy e g a . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : A n d I t h i n k h e s ti ll s a i d t o m e t h a t M o t h i b a h a d t o l d h i m h e c a n c la r i fy t h is w i t h G e n e r a l G o d f r e y L e b e y a w h o is th e c u r r e n t h e a d o f th e H AW K S . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : So Simon got into his car according to him and he went to General Lebeya and General Page 62 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 L e b e y a c o n fir m e d th a t G e n e r a l P h iy e g a h a d g iv e n a n i n s tr u c ti o n t h a t t h o s e d o c k e ts m u s t b e t a k e n a w a y fr o m h i m . I r e c a ll e d s o m e ti m e a ft e r w a r d s I w a s i n h is … CHAIRPERSON : I a m s o r r y t h e i n s tr u c t i o n a s y o u u n d e r s t o o d i t fr o m G e n e r a l P h iy e g a w a s t h a t t h e d o c k e t t h a t Br ig a d i e r M a d o n s e ll a h a d in r e g a r d t o t h i s i n v e s ti g a ti o n s h o u l d b e ta k e n a w a y fr o m h i m . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Th a t is what M a d o n s e ll a to ld m e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s O k a y. 10 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : W o u l d t h a t a m o u n t t o s a y in g h e m u s t n o t c o n t i n u e w i t h th e in v e s t i g a t io n if t h a t d o c k e t w a s t a k e n a w a y o r th e r e m a y h a v e b e e n d i ffe r e n t d o c k e t s h e c o u l d s til l c o n t i n u e w i t h th e i n v e s t ig a ti o n . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : No. No General – C h a ir i t w a s t a k e n a w a y fr o m h i m a n d t h a t w a s n o t t h e fir s t t i m e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Because on a previous occasion those dockets had been taken away f rom him and I c a n n o t r e c a l l t h e e x a c t d e t a ils a n d i t w a s s e n t t o t h e I n s p e c t o r G e n e r a l . 20 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : And I remember there w a s a fa ll o u t i n t h e m e d i a a b o u t t h e d o c k e ts b e i n g s e n t t o t h e In s p e c t o r G e n e r a l a n d n o w my v ie w i s t h e I n s p e c t o r G e n e r a l c a n n o t a d j u d ic a te u p o n d o c k e ts . Th a t h a s g o t t o g o t o t h e p r o s e c u t i n g a u t h o r i ty. B u t b e t h a t a s i t m a y I t h i n k S i m o n t o ld m e i t w a s e i t h e r s ix w e e k s o r t h r e e Page 63 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 m o n th s th a t th o s e d o c k e ts w e r e – w e r e w i t h t h e In s p e c t o r G e n e r a l a n d t h e y w e r e e v e n t u a l ly r e t u r n e d t o h i m w i t h n o t a s i n g l e e n tr y m a d e in t h o s e d o c k e ts . S o h e p r o c e e d e d u p u n t il th e ti m e h e a p p l ie d fo r t h e 2 0 5 ’s a n d th e n h e w a s c a ll e d b a c k a n d f o r th e s e c o n d ti m e t h e d o c k e ts were taken away from him. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d a c c o r d in g t o h i m w h a t h e w a s i n fo r m e d b y G e n e r a l M o t h i b a a n d G e n e r a l L e b e y a th a t t h o s e w e r e o n t h e i n s tr u c ti o n s o f G e n e r a l R i a P h i y e g a . 10 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. B u t n o w t h e y w e r e ta k e n a w a y f r o m b y w h o m a n d w h e r e w e r e th e y t a k e n t o ? D o y o u k n o w ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir t h e y w e r e t a k e n a w a y – p h y s i c a ll y t a k e n a w a y fr o m h i m . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : And they were handed o v e r a c c o r d i n g t o M a d o n s e l la a n d a p e r s o n t h a t f o r a w h i l e s t il l r e m a in e d o n th e i n v e s t ig a ti o n t h e y w e r e h a n d e d t o C a p t a i n H e e r l a l. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : And I do speak about 20 H e e r la l a b it la t e r o n C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN : Because there was s o m e d e v e l o p m e n ts la t e r o n . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Page 64 of 108 W h ic h a l s o b e c a m e 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 v e r y s u s p ic io u s t o m e . C H A I R P E R S O N : O h o k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN : But the point I am m a k i n g C h a i r is t h a t th is is a h i g h le v e l in v e s t ig a ti o n . I t is a l lo c a t e d to a Br ig a d i e r. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h o is d o in g w h a t h e h a s t o d o . I t g e ts t a k e n a w a y f r o m h i m a n d t h e n h a n d e d o v e r t o a l e s s e x p e r i e n c e d i n v e s t i g a t in g o ff ic e r. 10 CHAIRPERSON : S o h e w a s m u c h m o r e e x p e r i e n c e d th a n t h e p e r s o n t h a t w a s g i v e n th e d o c k e t s ? S o h e w a s m u c h m o r e e x p e r ie n c e d t h a n t h e p e r s o n t h a t w a s g iv e n t h e d o c k e ts ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : C h a i r I w o u ld s a y i f y o u c a n – if I c a n d r a w a p a r a l le l M a d o n s e l l a w o u l d h a v e b e e n l ik e a S C a n d H e e r la l w a s li k e a j u n i o r l a w y e r w h o f i n is h e d u n iv e r s i ty. C H A I R P E R S O N : H m o k a y. O k a y a l r i g h t t h a n k y o u . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I r e c a ll a w h il e a ft e r t h a t t h e r e w a s s o m e i n v e s ti g a ti o n a b o u t t h o s e d o c k e ts . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And Br i g a d ie r M a d o n s e ll a w a s v is i ti n g m e a t m y s o n ’s h o u s e i n Pr e to r i a . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : p h o n e c a ll a n d I c a n u n d e r s t a n d a l i t tl e b i t o f Z u lu . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 65 of 108 A n d th e y r e c e iv e d a 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : So – but I could hear he was very annoyed. So he put the phone down and I said to him, w h a t w a s th a t a b o u t S i m o n ? H e s a i d t o m e , n o h e w a s p h o n e d le g a l s e r v ic e s t h e y n o w n e e d a s ta t e m e n t f r o m h i m a b o u t w h a t h a d o c c u r r e d t h e r e . A n d h e s a i d t o m e G e n e r a l I a m g a tv o l a n d h e t o ld t h i s p e r s o n h e is n o t g o i n g t o m a k e a s ta t e m e n t . I s a id b u t S i m o n m a k e a s t a te m e n t . H e s a id b u t w h o i s b a c k m e u p ? I s a y I c a n g u a r a n t e e y o u G e n e r a l L e b e y a w il l b a c k y o u u p . H e s a y s b u t I d o n o t h a v e L e b e y a ’s n u m b e r. I h a v e h i m G e n e r a l L e b e y a ’s n u m b e r I s a i d s p e a k to G e n e r a l 10 Leberya. So he phoned General Lebeya, the current head of the H AW K S a n d L e b e y a c o n fi r m e d w it h h i m o n t h e p h o n e t h a t h e w il l – h e w i ll s u p p o r t h i m . H e w i ll m a k e a s t a t e m e n t th a t i t w a s in d e e d G e n e r a l P h iy e g a w h o i n s tr u c t e d t h a t t h o s e d o c k e ts b e t a k e n a w a y f r o m h i m . C H A I R P E R S O N : H m . O k a y. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a i r th e n m u c h l a te r w h e n Mr M c B r i d e c a m e o n b o a r d h e g o t t o k n o w a b o u t t h o s e d o c k e t s . So he approached me and asked me would it be possible for me to get hold of those dockets. I s a i d w e l l lo o k I c a n tr y. S o t h r o u g h my c o n ta c t s I m a d e e n q u ir i e s a n d Z u n g u w a s a ls o p a r t o f t h e in v e s ti g a t io n . 20 I d o n o t k n o w w h e th e r th e y a p p r o a c h e d H e e r l a l o r b e th a t a s i t m a y h e s a i d n o th e y w il l s e e w h a t th e y c a n d o . A n d th e n a w e e k o r s o l a te r Z u n g u c a m e t o m e w i t h – w it h w h a t w a s s u p p o s e d t o b e c o p ie s o f t h e d o c k e ts . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : Page 66 of 108 But when I saw him 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 a p p r o a c h i n g m e I r e a l is e d th e r e w a s s o m e th in g w r o n g b e c a u s e I k n e w t h e v o l u m e o f t h e d o c k e t b e fo r e a n d w h a t h e – h e w a s b r i n g i n g to m e o n f a c e v a l u e w a s l e s s t h a n I h a d s e e n p r e v io u s ly. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : So I went through the s t a te m e n t s a n d c o m p a r e d i t w i t h – w i th m y li s t a n d e v e r y s i n g l e w i t n e s s w h o i m p l ic a t e d R ic h a r d M d l u l i a n d a n u m b e r o f o t h e r o ff ic e r s a l l th o s e s t a te m e n ts w e r e r e m o v e d fr o m t h e d o c k e t o r fr o m – t h e y w e r e n o t p a r t of the docket. 10 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: S o w h e th e r i t w a s t a k e n o u t b y H e e r la l o r w h e t h e r i t w a s ta k e n o u t b y s o m e o n e e ls e I d o n o w k n o w b u t e v e r y s i n g l e s t a te m e n t t h a t i n c r i m i n a t e s R ic h a r d M d l u l i a n d o t h e r s e n i o r o ff ic e r s w e r e s a n it iz e d fr o m t h e d o c k e t . CHAIRPERSON : hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : I then made an a ffi d a v i t d e s c r i b i n g a s I d e s c r i b e d to C h a ir n o w t h e c ir c u m s t a n c e s . A n d I l is t e d e a c h w it n e s s a n d w h a t t h e y m o r e o r le s s s a i d a n d I h a n d e d t h a t w i t h a c o p y o f m y [i n d is t in c t] n o te s t o Mr M c Br i d e . 20 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o I s u s p e c t t h a t th e y s t il l b u s y w i t h th a t i n v e s t ig a ti o n C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. How long ago was that when you handed that o v e r to M r Mc B r i d e ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Page 67 of 108 C h a ir I w o u ld s a y 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 a b o u t e ig h t e e n m o n th s a g o . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : But in between I have b e e n e n g a g in g w i t h M r M c Br i d e . CHAIRPERSON : Ja. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : But between him and m y s e l f th e n w e s u s p e n d e d , th e n h e is s u s p e n d e d , t h e n I a m b a c k a n d t h e n h e is s u s p e n d e d a g a i n . A n d t h e n w h e n h e g e ts b a c k I w il l e n q u ir e fr o m h i m . 10 T h e n h e t e l ls m e n o t h i n g s h a v e g o n e m i s s in g o u t I w il l t e s ti fy la t e r o n a b o u t a n E x h ib i t . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : That I handed to him in a v e r y, v e r y s e r i o u s m a t te r t h a t a f t e r w h e n h e r e t u r n e d fr o m w o r k h e p h o n e d m e a n d h e s a i d to m e , h e c a ll s m e c h ie f a n d I c a l l h i m b o s s . H e s a id C h i e f t h a t e x h ib i t . C H A I R P E R S O N : W e ll h e t o l d u s I t h i n k la s t w e e k w h e n i t w a s – h e w a s c a l l e d f o r th e fir s t t i m e B o s s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : No Chair we… CHAIRPERSON : 20 Ye s b u t h e d i d n o t s a y it w a s y o u it w a s s o m e b o d y e ls e . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : No we come from the same area in Durban. H e is fr o m W e n tw o r t h a n d I a m fr o m A m a n z i m t o ti . C H A I R P E R S O N : O h o k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : So we grew up on the Page 68 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 w r o n g s id e o f D u r b a n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : So he said to me hey C h i e f h a v e y o u g o t – h a v e y o u s t il l g o t a c o p y o f t h i s – t h is r e c o r d i n g ? And I said no I do and I said what happened to the one I gave you? He s a i d n o w h i le h e w a s s u s p e n d e d w h e n h e g o t b a c k i t h a d g o n e m is s i n g . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : So I – I do not know w h a t h a p p e n e d to t h o s e fi f t e e n d o c k e ts t h e i n v e s ti g a t i o n s r e g a r d i n g 10 that. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : I have not spoken to h i m r e c e n tl y a b o u t t h a t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. No thank you. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I s i t c o r r e c t th e n th a t y o u d o n o t c o n c lu s iv e ly k n o w t h e r e a s o n fo r w h y th e s t a t e m e n t s i n c r i m in a ti n g R i c h a r d M d lu li a n d o t h e r p o lic e o ffi c i a l s w e r e n o t i n c l u d e d i n t h e b u n d le o f d o c u m e n ts y o u r e c e iv e d ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I d o n o t C h a ir. I c a n 20 o n ly s p e c u l a te . CHAIRPERSON : All you are sa ying is you found it strange that d o c u m e n ts o f w i t n e s s e s t h a t y o u – I m e a n s ta t e m e n ts o f w i t n e s s e s th a t y o u h a d s e e n w h i c h in c r i m i n a t e d a p a r t ic u l a r i n d iv i d u a l w e r e a l l n o w n o t t h e r e in t h e fi l e w h e n y o u s a w i t? T h a t i s w h a t y o u a r e s a y i n g . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h a t i s tr u e C h a i r a n d Page 69 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 s o m e t h i n g I o m i t t e d t o te ll y o u . T h e r e w e r e a ls o c o r r e s p o n d e n c e w h ic h I s a w i n t h e d o c k e ts a n d it w a s c o r r e s p o n d e n c e fr o m a G e n e r a l G o d f r e y L e b e y a w h o a t th a t ti m e w a s a D e p u ty N a ti o n a l C o m m i s s io n e r i n w h ic h h e g a v e c e r ta i n i n s tr u c t io n s , th o s e w e r e c o p ie s o f t h o s e i n s tr u c ti o n s t h a t th e r e s h o u l d b e a n i n v e s t ig a ti o n a g a i n s t R ic h a r d M d l u l i a n d t h e r e w e r e a w h o l e l is t a n d I t h i n k I m i g h t h a v e li s t e d s o m e o f th e n a m e s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL B O OYSEN: O f P e o p le t h a t h a d b e e n p r o m o t e d i n t e r m s o f t h e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s A c c o u n t . S o w h a t t h e y 10 d o C h a ir i f t h e r e i s a c o v e r t in v e s ti g a t i o n t h e y t a k e a p r o fi l e o f a p a r t ic u l a r i n d iv id u a l i f it i s fo r i n s t a n c e i n a d r u g r e l a t e d m a t t e r – I w ill id e n t i fy a p o lic e m a n s a y i n t h e W e s t e r n C a p e t h a t fi ts a p r o fi le o f a d r u g d e a l e r. I w il l r e c r u i t th a t p o l ic e m a n a n d h e r e s ig n s fr o m t h e p o li c e . T h e y ta k e h i m o ff t h e s y s t e m . H e t h e n b e c o m e s a n a g e n t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : So everyone thinks he h a s l e ft t h e p o l ic e b u t i n t h e m e a n t i m e h e i s a n a g e n t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o w h a t t h e y d id w i t h 20 t h e – i n t h e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s A c c o u n t t h e y w o u l d a p p o in t p e o p l e lik e t h a t a s a g e n ts . S o m e o f t h e m I th in k s o m e o f t h e m h a d n e v e r e v e n s e e n t h e in s i d e o f a p o li c e s t a ti o n b u t a l l o f a s u d d e n t h e y n o w a g e n ts a n d s o m e o f t h e m w e r e p r o m o t e d a s fa r a s I k n o w u p to t h e r a n k o f C o l o n e l a n d I k n o w i n d iv i d u a l s th a t s t il l h o l d th e r a n k o f C o l o n e l w h o h a d b e e n p r o m o t e d i n t e r m s o f t h e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s A c c o u n t . S o t h a t i s Page 70 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 how they abused it. CHAIRPERSON : Hm, Thank you. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I f I c a n th e n ta k e y o u t o p a g e 2 0 o f y o u r a ffi d a v it a n d in p a r tic u la r p a r a g r a p h 6 4 . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Sorry? A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : a ffi d a v i t p a r a g r a p h 6 4 . S o it is p a g e 2 0 o f y o u r C a n y o u p l e a s e in f o r m t h e – o r r a t h e r y o u r e v i d e n c e i n y o u r a ffi d a v it f o c u s s e s o n o n e p a r ti c u l a r e x a m p l e in r e l a ti o n to t h e l o o ti n g o f t h e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s A c c o u n ts ? 10 Can you p l e a s e i n f o r m t h i s c o m m is s i o n o f t h is p a r ti c u la r e x a m p l e y o u r e f e r t o a n d w h y i t – w h y th is p a r t ic u l a r e x a m p l e w a s s o i m p o r t a n t t o h ig h li g h t ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESS EL BO OYSEN : C h a ir o n e o f t h e tr a n s a c ti o n s t h a t a t s o m e ju n c t u r e h a d b e e n in v e s ti g a t e d w a s a fe n c e t h a t w a s b u il t a r o u n d th e r e s i d e n c e o f t h e t h e n M i n i s te r o f P o lic e M i n is t e r N a t h i M t h e t h w a to t h e a m o u n t o f R 1 9 5 5 8 1 ,4 5 . A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : W h e r e w a s th is fe n c e b u il t ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t w a s b u i l t a r o u n d h is p r i v a t e r e s i d e n c e I t h i n k a r o u n d a b o u t E m p a n g e n i C h a ir. N o w C h a ir a t t h e t i m e w h e n t h e lo o ti n g o f t h e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s A c c o u n t s u r fa c e d i t 20 was reported that the fence had been paid for through the Secret S e r v ic e s A c c o u n t , t h e ir f u n d s . And it common cause at t he time b e c a u s e i t h a d b e e n r e p o r t e d in th e m e d ia t h a t t h e m a t te r h a d b e e n in v e s t i g a t e d b y t h e A u d i t o r G e n e r a l a t t h e ti m e w h o e x o n e r a te d th e t h e n M in is t e r o f P o li c e . C H A I R P E R S O N : W h o h a d i n v e s t ig a t e d ? Page 71 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e A u d i to r G e n e r a l . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B u t C h a ir i n m y v i e w a n d I h a v e – I a m in c l u d i n g d o c u m e n t a ti o n in m y s ta t e m e n t . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : The understanding w a s t h a t t h e M in is t e r a t th e ti m e w a s u n a w a r e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : 10 Now subsequent to t h a t th e r e w a s a n e n g a g e m e n t w i th … C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e – I a m s o r r y t h e – a s y o u u n d e r s t a n d i t th e – th e id e a w a s t h a t th e M i n is t e r w a s u n a w a r e o f w h a t ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: O f w h e r e – th a t t h e m o n e y h a d c o m e fr o m t h e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s A c c o u n t . C H A I R P E R S O N : H m o k a y. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : d i g r e s s a li t tl e b i t . S o C h a ir i f I c a n R e c e n tl y t h e r e w a s a r a d i o i n te r v i e w b e tw e e n m y s e l f a n d K a r i m a Br o w n fr o m 7 0 2 . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : W h e r e I m e n ti o n e d t h is a n d n o s o o n e r h a d I a r r iv e d h o m e th e Mi n i s te r – th e t h e n M in is t e r N a t h i M t h e t h w e h a d m a d e c o n t a c t w it h K a r i m a B r o w n fr o m 7 0 2 a n d s a i d t o h e r t h a t I a m c l a s p i n g a t s tr a w s a n d I a m b a s ic a l ly – h e b a s ic a l ly s a i d t h a t I a m n o t t a l k i n g t h e tr u t h . So she invited me back to the s t u d i o t h e f o ll o w i n g e v e n in g b e c a u s e s h e s a i d s h e w o u l d in v i t e th e Page 72 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 M i n is t e r. S o I s a i d – s h e a s k e d m e i f I w o u l d c o m e s o I s a i d w e ll t e l l t h e M i n is te r I w i ll m e e t h i m t h e s t u d i o t o n i g h t . s t u d i o h e d i d n o t p i tc h . I w e n t b a c k t o th e S o t h e y d i d a r a d i o in t e r v i e w w i t h h i m . Now d u r i n g t h a t r a d io in t e r v ie w h e o n c e a g a i n s a id t h a t I a m c la s p i n g a t s tr a w s a n d h e e x p l a i n e d th a t a s M in is t e r h e w a s e n ti tl e d t o s e c u r i ty u p g r a d e s a t h is h o u s e in t e r m s o f t h e M i n is t e r ia l H a n d b o o k . A n d th a t t h e M i n i s t e r ia l H a n d b o o k s a y s t h a t h e c a n g e t s e c u r i ty u p g r a d e s t o R 1 0 0 0 0 0 ,0 0 a n d h e w a s u n a w a r e t h a t t h e y o v e r s p e n t . Th e p o i n t I a m m a k i n g C h a ir i s I w e n t a n d I h a d a lo o k a t t h i s – a t t h e M in is t e r i a l 10 H a n d b o o k . A c c o r d i n g to t h e M in is t e r i a l H a n d b o o k h e is e n t i tl e d . T h e M i n is t e r is e n ti t le d b u t i t m u s t b e a t h is r e q u e s t n u m b e r 1 . S e c o n d ly t h e r e m u s t b e a r i s k s a s s e s s m e n t a n d t h e n t h ir d ly t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f W o r k s w il l t h e n d e a l w it h th e m a t te r. A n d t h e M i n i s te r i a l H a n d b o o k i s c le a r i t s a y s s e c u r i t y u p g r a d e s u p t o t h e a m o u n t o f R 1 0 0 , 0 0 0 , 0 0 . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : Any amount in excess o f t h a t w i ll b e f o r t h e a c c o u n t o f t h e o ff ic e b e a r e r. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : C a n I i n te r r u p t y o u t h e r e t h e n a n d t a k e y o u to e x c e r p ts o f t h a t M i n is t e r i a l H a n d b o o k y o u r e fe r t o 20 w h ic h is a t p a g e – s t a r ts a t p a g e 11 3 . Thank you. I s it c o r r e c t t h a t t h e s e a r e e x tr a c ts o f t h e M i n is te r i a l H a n d b o o k t h a t y o u w e r e r e fe r r i n g to? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e y a r e C h a ir. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : C a n I a s k y o u t o p l e a s e tu r n t o p a g e 11 5 a n d r e a d o n l y t h e f ir s t s e n te n c e i n to t h e r e c o r d ? Page 73 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : “ T h i s h a n d b o o k i s a g u i d e l in e f o r b e n e f i ts a n d p r i v i le g e s t o w h ic h M in is t e r s a n d t h e i r f a m il ie s a r e e n t i tl e d in e x e c u ti o n o f th e ir d u ti e s .” A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n c o r r e c ti o n t o y o u r r e a d in g i t is n o t M in is t e r s b u t m e m b e r s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o r r y, s o r r y C h a ir. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I s t h a t c o r r e c t? C a n I t h e n a s k y o u to t u r n t o p a g e 11 7 p l e a s e ? Is i t c o r r e c t th a t m e m b e r a t t h e t o p i s 10 d e f in e d t o in c l u d e a m i n is te r ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t d o e s C h a ir. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I s it a ls o c o r r e c t t h a t N a ti o n a l m e m b e r s m e a n s m i n i s t e r, a m i n i s t e r a m o n g s t o t h e r s ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : That is my u n d e r s t a n d in g C h a ir. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d i n th e d e f i n i ti o n o f p r iv a te r e s id e n c e w h ic h is t h e s ix t h d e f in i ti o n i t is d e f in e d t o m e in a p r iv a t e l y o w n e d h o u s e , is th a t c o r r e c t ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir. 20 A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : C a n I t h e n t a k e y o u to p a g e 11 8 . T h is d o c u m e n t is t i tl e d A n n e x u r e E a n d n a m e d P o lic y o n S e c u r i t y M e a s u r e s a t t h e P r iv a t e R e s i d e n c e s o f p u b l ic o ff ic e b e a r e r s . C a n y o u p l e a s e r e a d t h e fi r s t – t h e fir s t l in e b e g i n n i n g w i th th e w o r d c a b i n e t a n d t h e n p a r a g r a p h s 1 a n d 2 in t o th e r e c o r d p l e a s e ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Page 74 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 “ C a b in e t a p p r o v e d o n t h e 11 J u n e 2 0 0 3 t h e fo ll o w i n g p r o v i s i o n s o f t h e a b o v e p o lic y. Th e M i n is t e r o f P u b l ic W o r k s m a y a p p r o v e a s t a t e c o n t r i b u t io n o f a non-recoverable maximum amount of R100 000,00 or t h e t o t a l c o s t o f s e c u r i ty m e a s u r e s n o t e x c e e d i n g R 1 0 0 0 0 0 ,0 0 . Should the cost of the s e c u r i ty m e a s u r e s b e m o r e t h a n R 1 0 0 0 0 0 , 0 0 t h e d i ff e r e n c e s h a l l b e b o r n e b y t h e P u b li c O ff ic e B e a r e r. ” A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : 10 And then at page 120. Can I a s k y o u to r e a d p a r a g r a p h 11 i n t o t h e r e c o r d p l e a s e ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : “ Se c u r i ty m e a s u r e s m a y b e i m p l e m e n te d a t P u b li c O ff ic e B e a r e r s p r iv a t e r e s i d e n c e s o c c u p i e d o n a r e g u la r b a s is i n t h e a r e a s o t h e r th a n C a p e To w n o r P r e t o r i a .” A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : D o y o u k n o w w h e r e t h e p r iv a t e r e s id e n c e o f M in is t e r N a t h i M t h e t h w e is s it u a te d w h ic h b e n e fi t e d fr o m t h e b u il d in g o f a fe n c e ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESS EL BOOYSEN : 20 It is in the area of E m p a n g e n i C h a ir. A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : that your te s t i m o n y was that the Thank you. cost of the A n d i t is c o r r e c t fence exceeded R 1 0 0 ,0 0 0 ,0 0 ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h a t w a s m y e v id e n c e C h a ir. Page 75 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O ught the – or rather – where w a s t h e f u n d s f o r th e p a y m e n t o f t h e b u i l d i n g o f a f e n c e o u g h t t o h a v e s e c u r e d fr o m ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Chair it is my u n d e r s t a n d in g t h a t it s h o u l d h a v e a t l e a s t h a v e c o m e fr o m a n o p e n a c c o u n t a n d n o t fr o m t h e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s a c c o u n t. T h a t is t h e f ir s t call. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 10 S e c o n d ly i t s h o u l d h a v e c o m e in m y v ie w fr o m t h e P a r li a m e n t a r y B u d g e t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: O r t h e n s e c o n d l y th e p o li c e ’s b u d g e t. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Vi a t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f Works. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d t h e n t h e Ac t s a y s I t h i n k i t is R 1 9 3 0 0 0 s h o u l d h a v e b e e n b o r n e b y t h e o ffi c e r b e a r e r 20 w h ic h w a s t h e M i n is te r a t th e ti m e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. S o y o u s a y t h e s o u r c e o f t h e f u n d in g w a s th e wrong source. The amount expended was the wrong amount insofar as w r o n g a m o u n t t h a t w a s p a i d b y t h e s t a te b e c a u s e i t e x c e e d e d R 1 0 0 0 0 0 a n d t h e p r o c e d u r e fo ll o w e d – y o u s a y – w a s a w r o n g p r o c e d u r e b e c a u s e t h i s is s u e is s u p p o s e d t o b e h a n d l e d b y t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f Page 76 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 P u b l ic W o r k s a n d n o t th r o u g h t h e S e c r e t a c c o u n t? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h o s e a r e t h e p o i n ts I a m m a k i n g b u t t h e r e is o n e e x tr a p o i n t I w o u l d li k e t o m a k e C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: During th e c o n v e r s a ti o n w i th K a r i m a Br o w n o n 7 0 2 . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: The M in is t e r a tt e m p t e d t o j u s ti f y t h e b u i ld i n g o f t h e f e n c e a r o u n d h is h o u s e w h ic h I 10 do not have a problem with. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: B u t h e a t le a s t n o w k n o w s t h a t t h e m o n e y c a m e fr o m t h e w r o n g fu n d s . I do not know w h e t h e r a n y a t t e m p ts w e r e m a d e to . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Reallocate those f u n d s a n d g e t t h e f u n d s fr o m t h e p r o p e r b u d g e t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 20 And whether any a tt e m p ts w e r e m a d e to – to r e p a y t h e R 9 0 0 0 0 - o d d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Which was in excess o f t h e R 1 0 0 0 0 0 t h a t h e w a s e n t it l e d t o . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. D o y o u s e e h e d i d n o t k n o w th a t i t c a m e fr o m the Secret fund account? Page 77 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: That is my u n d e r s t a n d in g o f w h a t – w h a t c a m e o u t o f t h e A u d i t o r - G e n e r a l ’s r e p o r t a t t h e t i m e C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: A n d t h e n j u s t f o r th e r e c o r d i f I c a n t a k e y o u t o p a g e 2 0 p a r a g r a p h 6 5 o f y o u r a ff id a v i t. Yo u r e fe r t h e r e t o a n i n t e r v i e w o n R a d io 7 0 2 o n 1 7 O c to b e r 2 0 1 8 . Is th a t in f a c t t h e d a te o f th e i n te r v i e w to w h ic h y o u r e v i d e n c e c o n c e r n i n g th e i n t e r v i e w relates? 10 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s t h e d a te C h a ir. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: Thank you. I f I m a y ju s t a t th is p a r t ic u l a r s t a g e p l a c e s o m e t h i n g o n r e c o r d C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : P a r a g r a p h 6 8 o f t h e w i tn e s s ’ a ffi d a v it r e fe r s to a n A n n e x u r e J W B 1 0 . CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: Which is in the enclosed part of the bundle. CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh. 20 A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I t is a d o c u m e n t m a r k e d “ s e c r e t ” . CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: d e c l a s s i fi e s t h e d o c u m e n t . It has a stamp on it w h ic h However we are in the process of just c la r i fy in g t h e a c t u a l s ta t u s o f t h is d o c u m e n t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 78 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d s o t h a t e v i d e n c e is n o t g o in g t o b e r e f e r r e d t o a t t h is s t a g e u n til s u c h p r o p e r c o n f ir m a ti o n is s o u g h t . CHAIRPERSON : Ja, okay alright. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : Thank you. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : If I c a n n o w ta k e y o u t h e n to p a g e 2 3 o f y o u r a ffi d a v it w h ic h s t a r ts t h e n e x t i n v e s ti g a ti o n t h a t y o u r e v id e n c e c o n c e r n s a n d th a t i n v e s ti g a ti o n . CHAIRPERSON : 10 I a m s o r r y. J u s t i n c a s e I m is s s o m e th i n g . b a c k t o t h e i n v e s ti g a t i o n th a t B r i g a d i e r M a d o n s e la w a s d o i n g . G o in g Th e d o c k e t w a s t a k e n fr o m h i m a n d g iv e n t o s o m e b o d y e ls e m u c h ju n io r t o h i m a n d t h e n a t s o m e s ta g e y o u u n d e r s t a n d t h a t t h e d o c k e t w a s s e n t to t h e I G I . I s i t th e I G I ? The Inspector General and then when it came b a c k t h e r e w e r e n o n o t e s t o i n d i c a t e t h a t a n y w o r k h a d b e e n d o n e o n it and is that how far you know about what happened with that in v e s t i g a t io n ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C h a i r c a n I ju s t g e t t h e s e q u e n c e r i g h t? CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Madonsela was in v e s t i g a t in g . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: started probing. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 79 of 108 A n d th e n w h e n h e 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: The d o c k e ts wer e t a k e n a w a y fr o m h i m a n d s e n t t o t h e In s p e c t o r G e n e r a l . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I think it was F a i t h R a d e b e a t t h e ti m e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h e r e w e r e q u it e a l o t o f c o m p l a i n ts i n th e m e d i a a b o u t i t . CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh. 10 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h e n i t w a s e i t h e r s ix w e e k s o r t h r e e m o n t h s l a t e r. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: The d o c k e ts were r e tu r n e d t o M a d o n s e la . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Simon Madonsela. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: w h a ts o e v e r b e e n m a d e . 20 W i th no e n tr i e s S o t h e y w e r e b a s ic a lly l ik e t h e r e f o r t h a t p e r i o d o f ti m e w i t h o u t a n y p r o g r e s s w h a ts o e v e r. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: H e t h e n c o n ti n u e d w i t h t h e i n v e s ti g a ti o n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Page 80 of 108 Sought my a d v ic e 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 w h ic h I g a v e h i m . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Came to my house t h a t i s w h e n I m a d e t h e n o te s . CHAIRPERSON: Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : E v e n t u a ll y a p p l ie d f o r the 205s. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 10 They were authorised b u t w h e n h e w e n t t o c o u r t t o n o w g e t th e d o c u m e n ts h e w a s r e c a ll e d to Pretoria by Jona Moteba. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Dockets were taken a w a y fr o m h i m a n d th e n h a n d e d t o a j u n i o r m e m b e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : O h , o k a y. S o I g o t s o m e o f t h e s e s t e p s i n t h e w r o n g sequence? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: O k a y. I t h o u g h t t h a t w h e n t h e fi le s – d o c k e t w a s t a k e n a w a y fr o m h i m t h a t w a s a f t e r th e – w e l l w h e n t h e y w e r e ta k e n t o 20 t h e d o c k e t w a s t a k e n t o th e I n s p e c t o r G e n e r a l th a t w a s b e f o r e t h e 2 0 5 s – he applied for the 205s? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : S o h e a p p l ie d fo r t h e 2 0 5 s a f t e r th e d o c k e t h a d c o m e b a c k fr o m t h e I G I a n d t h e n a t a c e r ta i n s t a g e th e d o c k e t w a s t a k e n a w a y fr o m h i m a n d g iv e n t o s o m e b o d y m u c h j u n i o r to h i m to Page 81 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 in v e s t i g a t e ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d h a s – a n d t h a t is w h e r e t h e w h o l e th in g e n d e d a s far as you know? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : U n ti l I . CHAIRPERSON : Or stopped? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: That is where it s t o p p e d C h a ir u n t il m y a ff i d a v i t to w i t h m y n o t e s o v e r to M r M c Br id e . 10 CHAIRPERSON : M c Br i d e y e s , b u t M r M c Br id e w o u l d h a v e b e e n in v e s t i g a t in g conduct the of p o l ic e o ffi c e r s in r e la t io n to that in v e s t i g a t io n a n d n o t d o in g th e a c t u a l i n v e s t ig a ti o n ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a i r n o t r e a ll y. W h a t h a p p e n e d is w h e n M c Br id e c a m e o n b o a r d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: When he phoned me and asked me what was going on and I gave him a – described to him w h a t w a s g o i n g o n a n d h e a s k e d m e fo r a r e p o r t w h ic h I d id t h e s a m e evening. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d h e i m m e d i a t e ly s e n t a n i n v e s ti g a to r s d o w n a n d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: m o t io n to h a v e a ll th e s e i n v e s t ig a ti o n s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 82 of 108 H e s e t t h e w h e e ls i n 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: W h ic h h a d b e c o m e dormant to. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : To r e k i n d l e th e m . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d w h il e w e w e r e h a v i n g th e s e d i s c u s s io n s h e s t il l j o k e d a n d h e s a i d to m e w a tc h I w ill be the next one to be suspended. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 10 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d I s a i d n o t h e y w il l never suspend you because you – you have – you have got the right c r e d e n t ia ls a n d l o a n d b e h o l d h e w a s e v e n t u a lly s u s p e n d e d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. J a , o k a y. Thank you. S o f o r a ll i n te n ts a n d p u r p o s e s a s f a r a s y o u k n o w t h a t i n v e s ti g a ti o n d o e s n o t a p p e a r t o h a v e b e e n t a k e n f u r t h e r a f t e r t h e d o c k e t w a s t a k e n fr o m B r i g a d i e r M a d o n s e l a a n d g iv e n to s o m e b o d y e ls e ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir a c c o r d i n g to m e t h o s e d o c k e ts h a v e g o n e n o w h e r e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Ev e n w h ils t b e i n g a t IPID. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I a m a l iv e t o w h a t h a s h a p p e n e d a t I P I D w i th M r Mc B r i d e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 83 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: H is s u s p e n s io n s a n d tr y i n g t o k e e p h i m o u t o f h is j o b . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: So there were other in v e s t i g a t io n s a l s o t h a t w e c o m m u n ic a t e d w i t h – t o e a c h o t h e r. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: That I know - and he e x p r e s s e s h is fr u s tr a t i o n s a t s o m e p o in t s a n d I w i ll p e r h a p s t a l k a b o u t t h a t l a t e r. 10 CHAIRPERSON: Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Th a t w h e n h e g e ts b a c k fr o m s u s p e n s i o n t h i n g s h a d g o n e m i s s in g . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : P e o p le fr o m h is o ff ic e h a d b e e n s u s p e n d e d o r fir e d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: So what happened to t h o s e d o c k e ts . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I r e a l ly c a n n o t t e ll y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : H m . O k a y, t h a n k y o u . ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: C h a ir b e fo r e w e m o v e o n t o th e n e x t in v e s t i g a t io n a n d g u id e d b y y o u r d ir e c t io n o f c o u r s e . CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh. Page 84 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: I a m n o t s u r e i f t h is p a r t ic u l a r c h a p t e r w o u ld f in a lis e b y t h e t i m e th a t y o u h a v e d ir e c t e d a n d s o I a m h a p p y to . C H A I R P E R S O N : S t a r t i t e v e n i f w e d o n o t fi n a li s e i t. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I a m h a p p y to c o n ti n u e . CHAIRPERSON : Just use the time. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y. N o p r o b l e m . S o a t p a g e 2 3 o f y o u r a ff i d a v i t p a r a g r a p h 7 5 . A r e y o u t h e r e G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : ( N o a u d ib le r e p l y ) . 10 ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: Yo u t a l k a b o u t a n o t h e r i n v e s t ig a ti o n a l t h o u g h y o u r i n v o lv e m e n t in t h is p a r tic u l a r i n v e s t ig a ti o n w a s q u i te d i ff e r e n t . T h is in v e s t i g a t io n . in v e s t i g a t io n In very you simple have terms c a l le d p le a s e the C a to e x p la i n Manor what t h is in v e s t i g a t io n e n ta il e d a n d i n p a r t ic u l a r w h a t y o u r i n v o lv e m e n t i n t h i s in v e s t i g a t io n w a s a n d is . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: C h a ir after I had a r r e s t e d C o lo n e l M a d h o e o r h a d h i m – c a u s e d h i m to b e a r r e s te d fo r t h e a t t e m p t t o b r i b e m e C h a ir w o u l d r e c a l l t h a t h e h a d s h o w n m e s o m e photographs. 20 It was M a jo r G e n e r a l D e e n a M o o d l e y in th e e a r ly Head of Crime D e c e m b e r 2 0 11 . In t e l li g e n c e at K w a Z u l u - N a t a l c a m e t o m y o ff ic e a n d h e s a i d to m e t h a t t h e r e w e r e t w o reporters from the Sunday Ti m e s - S t e p h a n H o fs t a t te r and M z i li k a z i w a A fr ik a . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : The way he described Page 85 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 it t o m e i t s o u n d e d li k e h e h a d a c t u a l ly b e e n p a r t o f th is m e e ti n g . T h a t is n o w G e n e r a l M o o d l e y. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d th a t th e y w e r e g o i n g to r u n a s to r y t h a t S u n d a y t h a t I a m b a s ic a lly t h e h e a d o f a d e a th squad. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h a t t h is o n e u n i t th a t u l ti m a t e ly r e p o r te d t o m e – C a to M a n o r – h a d c o m m i t te d e x tr a ju d ic i a l 10 k il li n g s a n d th a t I w a s th e l e a d e r o f t h e s o c a l l e d d e a t h s q u a d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d th e y w e r e g o in g to phone me - I think he said the Saturday evening for my comments to b a s ic a lly c a tc h m e o ff g u a r d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And then proceed with p u b lis h in g t h e s to r y t h e – t h e S u n d a y. I i m m e d ia t e l y a s k e d – i m m e d i a t e ly a s k e d m y a t t o r n e y Mr C a r l v a n d e r M e r w e t o c o n t a c t t h e t h e n e d it o r o f t h e S u n d a y Ti m e s M r R a y H a r tl e y. 20 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: To a s k h i m t h a t w e w a n t i n te r ms o f t h e a u d i a l t e r a m p a r t e m r u l e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: p r o p e r o p p o r t u n i ty to . Page 86 of 108 We would lik e a 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : To e x p la i n w h a t . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h a t th e . C H A I R P E R S O N : To r e s p o n d to t h e a l le g a t io n s ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: W h ic h th e y a g r e e d t o a n d t h e n I t h in k i t w a s o n th e W e d n e s d a y – f o l lo w in g W e d n e s d a y – 10 M r S te p h a n H o f s ta t t e r a r r iv e d a t my o ffi c e a n d w a A f r i k a w a s n o t t h e r e a n d h e d i a ll e d in a n d s o w a A fr ik a w a s o n t h e li n e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And they started with a l l t h e a ll e g a t io n s a n d w e h a d a lo n g d is c u s s io n a n d i t m a d e i t c le a r t o – t o M r H o fs t a t t e r t h a t th e p h o t o g r a p h s th a t t h e y h a d w h ic h I h a d s e e n some of them were not even scenes where Cato Manor had been in v o lv e d i n . O n e p a r t ic u l a r o n e w h i c h w a s e v e n t u a ll y p u b li s h e d a n d I t h i n k i t is o n e o f th e m o s t g r u e s o m e o n e s w a s s p r e a d o v e r a l m o s t h a l f a p a g e o f a n u m b e r o f p e o p l e w h o h a d b e e n s h o t d e a d o n a li g h t 20 d e li v e r y v e h ic l e a n d I i n d ic a t e d to h i m t h a t lo o k th e p h o to g r a p h s t h a t y o u g u y s h a v e n o t a l l t h o s e p e o p l e w e r e s h o t b y C a t o M a n o r. Th e y t h e n c a m e w i t h a s t o r y th a t – a n d th is e v e n t u a l ly b e c o m e s t h e n u b o f o n e o f th e c o m p l a i n ts a g a in s t m e C h a ir. T h e y s a i d t o m e t h a t th e ir in f o r m a ti o n i s th a t in a s h o o to u t in H o w ic k o n t h e – o n th e fr e e w a y. I c a n n o t n o w a c t u a l ly r e c a ll i f i t is N 1 o r N 2 – t h a t I w a s i n a p o l ic e Page 87 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 h e li c o p t e r a n d t h a t I b a s i c a ll y b l o c k e d th e v e h i c l e a n d m y g u y s c a m e a n d s h o t t h e p e o p l e i n t h e c a r a l m o s t l ik e i n t h e m o v i e s . S o I s a id t o them look you have got a version. I h a v e a d i ff e r e n t v e r s i o n . My v e r s i o n is I w a s s i t ti n g i n m y o ffic e a t t h a t ti m e . I o n l y h e a r d a b o u t i t a ft e r w a r d s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d I t h e n w e n t t o th e p o li c e ’s a ir w i n g a n d w h e r e I t o o k t h e p o l i c e c h o p p e r a n d I o n ly a r r i v e d t h e r e q u i t e s o m e ti m e l a te r. I s a i d w h a t y o u n e e d t o d o is t o e s t a b li s h 10 t h e o b j e c ti v e f a c ts . J u s t g o to t h e p o l ic e ’s a ir w i n g . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d f in d o u t w h a t t i m e t h e y p i c k e d m e u p b e c a u s e it is a ll lo g g e d i n t h e h e l ic o p t e r ’s l o g b o o k . T h e y a ls o t h e n i n d ic a te d to m e t h a t t h e y h a d in t e r v i e w e d Mr M a d h o e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: W h o b y n o w is a n accused. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 20 Who accused me of a l l s o r ts o f th in g s a n d t h a t h e w a s – a c c o r d in g t o M a d h o e h e w a s a c t u a ll y i n v e s ti g a t i n g m e f o r a tr o c i ti e s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Which I thought was a jo k e b e c a u s e h e i s fr o m s u p p l y c h a i n m a n a g e m e n t . I d o n o t e v e n th in k h e c a n i n v e s t ig a t e s h o p l i ft i n g . Page 88 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And I said to – and M a d h o e a c c u s e d m e o f n o t h a n d in g in t h e e x h i b it s t o t h e p o l ic e ’s e x h i b i t r e g is t e r a n d I s a i d to h i m – I l o o k e d o u t o f m y w in d o w – I s a i d t h e r e i s t h e p o l ic e s t a t i o n – D u r b a n C e n tr a l – g o a n d a s c e r t a in t h e f a c ts . C h a ir i t w a s c l e a r t o m e t h a t t h e n a t u r e o f th e c o n v e r s a ti o n t h e y h a d a lr e a d y w r i t te n th e ir s to r y a n d th e y a r e n o t g o i n g to c h a n g e i t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h ic h th e y d i d . T h e y 10 f o ll o w i n g w e e k o n 11 D e c e m b e r 2 0 11 t h e a r ti c l e a p p e a r e d – b i g h e a d i n g “ Sh o o t to K i ll ” a n d I s t il l p h o n e d G e n e r a l D r a m a t m y i m m e d i a t e h e a d . I s a i d to h i m l o o k t h is t h i n g is i n t h e p a p e r. H e a d v is e d m e a d a y o r t w o la t e r t h a t h e w o u l d b e a p p o i n ti n g G e n e r a l J a n M a b u l a fr o m N o r t h W e s t a n d a ls o t w o o th e r G e n e r a l s – G e n e r a l [i n d is t in c t] . I c a n n o t r e c a l l h e r fir s t n a m e fr o m t h e E a s te r n C a p e a n d G e n e r a l L i n d s a y [i n d i s t i n c t ]. I t h i n k s h e w a s fr o m o n e o f th e o t h e r p r o v i n c e s – j u s t to c o m e a n d in v e s t i g a t e t h e a r t ic le s i n t h e n e w s p a p e r. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 20 B u t C h a ir a c o u p le o f d a y s l a t e r o n ly J a n M a b u l a a r r i v e d a t m y o ffi c e – G e n e r a l J a n M a b u l a w i t h a C o l o n e l M a n u . C o lo n e l M a n u I l a t e r – h e h a s s i n c e p a s s e d a w a y – I e s ta b l is h e d t h a t h e w a s a c t u a lly o f t o r t u r e i n a d i ff e r e n t m a t t e r i n t h e H i g h C o u r t h e r e in G a u t e n g . S o I s a i d to M a b u l a – J a n – I s a id J a n b e c a u s e I w a s e x p e c ti n g h i m t o i n v e s t ig a t e . S o I s a i d l o o k I w i ll m a k e m y o ff ic e a t y o u r d is p o s a l i f y o u w a n t to u s e m y s e c r e t a r y o f t y p e w r i t e r Page 89 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 – h a v e a n y t h in g ty p e d o r m a k e p h o to c o p i e s a n d I a ls o i n s tr u c te d w h o m e v e r a t m y o ffi c e t o c o o p e r a te w i t h M a b u la . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : He departed and then – t h a t w a s ju s t b e f o r e C h r i s t m a s . H e s a i d n o t h e y w i ll b e b a c k a f te r C h r is t m a s . S o a ft e r C h r i s t m a s t h e y c o m e b a c k a g a in b u t th e y a r e v e r y e v a s i v e C h a ir. I mean we are colleagues. We are generals together and I have done him favours in the past. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 10 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B u t a ll o f a s u d d e n h e is – I c o u l d j u s t s e n s e th a t t h e r e w a s s o m e th in g a n d I c o u l d n o t p u t m y fi n g e r o n i t . T h e n l a te r o n I g e t a c a ll fr o m o n e o f m y – t h e s a m e Wa r r a n t O ffi c e r M o s te r t w h o h a d e n g a g e d P a n d a y a n d h e s a id t o m e General one of my informers phoned me and they had been – the in f o r m e r h a d n o w b e e n a p p r o a c h e d b y s o m e o f M a b u l a ’s te a m a n d t h e y a r e p u t ti n g p r e s s u r e o n t h e m t o m a k e c e r t a i n s t a t e m e n ts . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: That was a ls o r e p o r t e d b y M o s te r t t o C o l o n e l H o o s a i n a n d H o o s a i n s ti ll w r o t e a le t t e r 20 e x p r e s s in g h is c o n c e r n th a t t h e i n fo r m e r h a d n o w b e i n g e x p o s e d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: B u t t h e n s o m e t h in g e ls e h a p p e n e d C h a ir. T h e S a n Z u n g u w h o w a s i n v o l v e d i n t h e – i n t h e lo o ti n g o f th e S e c r e t S e r v i c e ’s a c c o u n t in v e s t ig a t i o n h e w a s n o w w i th C r i m e I n te ll ig e n c e . S o I r e c e i v e a c a ll t h r o u g h a c o ll e a g u e o f m in e Page 90 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 s a y in g t h a t Z u n g u w a n ts t o s e e y o u . A t t h a t ti m e I w a s v e r y s u s p ic io u s about what was happening. So I did not know what to make of - b e c a u s e I h a d n o t s e e n fo r q u i t e s o m e ti m e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: colleague of mine te ll Z u n g u to meet me S o I s a i d to t h is o u ts i d e K e n tu c k y in A m a n z i m t o ti . S o I d r o v e o u t to A m a n z i m t o ti a n d I – b e c a u s e I d id n o t k n o w w h a t th e p u r p o s e o f t h e v is i t w a s I d e c i d e d to r e c o r d t h e c o n v e r s a ti o n b u t Z u n g u w a s a b i t – h e w a s f a s te r th a n I w a s . 10 So he w a s w a i ti n g u n d e r a tr e e w h il e I w a s s i t ti n g in th e c a r b u s y p r e p a r in g t o g e t t h e r e c o r d e r r i g h t. T h e n e x t m o m e n t h e k n o c k e d o n m y w i n d o w. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: S o I s a id Z u n g u j u m p in t h e c a r. S o h e s a i d t o m e G e n e r a l I h a v e g o t a s e r i o u s c o n c e r n . I s a i d w h a t is w r o n g Z u n g u . N o w s i n c e t h a t d a y Z u n g u ’s n a m e i s K e n tu c k y. I c a ll h i m K e n t u c k y. S o I s a id t o Z u n g u w h a t i s t h e p r o b l e m . He says to me no G e n e r a l M a b u l a ’s d e te c tiv e s who are now in v e s t i g a t in g t h e s o c a ll e d e x tr a j u d i c i a l k i lli n g s h a d c a l l e d h i m t o t h e ir h o t e l w h e r e t h e y w e r e s ta y i n g in D u r b a n . In o n e o f t h e c a s e s w h e r e it 20 is a ll e g e d t h a t C a t o M a n o r h a d d o n e – c o m m i t t e d a n e x tr a j u d ic ia l k il li n g w a s t h e s h o o ti n g o f a p e r s o n b y t h e n a m e o f B o n g a n i Mk h iz e . Z u n g u w a s th e i n v e s ti g a t i n g o ffic e r i n a d i ff e r e n t m a tt e r w h e r e N k o s i Z o n d o w a s m u r d e r e d a n d w h ic h s u s p e c t h a d b e e n s o u g h t a n d M k h iz e w a s o n e o f t h e s u s p e c ts b e e n s o u g h t f o r t h e k i ll in g o f Nkosi Zondo. Page 91 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : So – and he had made a n a ffi d a v it in o n e o f t h e d o c k e ts t h a t – th a t M k h i z e w a s b e e n s o u g h t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: S o th e y tr i e d t o g e t h i m t o c h a n g e h is s ta t e m e n t – M a b u l a ’s t e a m tr i e d t o g e t h i m to c h a n g e h is s t a t e m e n t . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And he refused and he 10 s a y s w h e n – h e s a y s e v e n t u a ll y h e j u s t s a i d l o o k h is – I a m u n c o m f o r t a b l e w h a t i s g o i n g o n h e r e n o w. H e is g o i n g to e x c u s e himself. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And he said almost lik e i n a – i t w a s l ik e a v e i l th r e a t . W e w i ll b e b a c k . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d t h a t is w h e n h e le f t a n d h e d e c i d e d t o c o m e a n d i n f o r m m e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a i r I t h e n s ta r te d t o w o n d e r w h a t is g o i n g o n h e r e . T h e y a r e s u p p o s e d t o b e o b j e c ti v e i n t h e ir i n v e s t ig a ti o n s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o w t h e y a r e tr y i n g t o g e t p e o p l e to c h a n g e s t a te m e n ts . Page 92 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: They are going to in f o r m e r s . I t h i n k t h a t r e c o r d in g m i g h t s t ill b e a v a il a b l e w h e r e o n e o f t h e in f o r m e r s h a d a s e c o n d m e e ti n g w i th t h e m w h ic h w e r e c o r d e d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: pressure on p e o p le to i m p l ic a t e d e t e c ti v e s S o t h e y w e r e p u t t in g of C a to Manor in w r o n g d o i n g . T h e n I r e c e i v e d a s tr a n g e p h o n e c a ll f r o m a jo u r n a l is t . I c a n n o t r e c a l l h e r n a m e . S h e w a s fr o m a t e l e v is i o n s t a t i o n a n d I r e c a ll 10 a t o n e s t a g e s h e a ls o s p o k e o n C N N b u t n o t a b o u t o u r c a s e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: But she always used t o c o m e a n d t a l k t o u s i n D u r b a n a n d t h e n s h e s a i d to m e G e n e r a l I b e li e v e t h e y a r e g o i n g t o c h a r g e y o u f o r r a c k e t e e r i n g . S o I s a id t o h e r you must be joking. They do not know what racketeering is because I h a v e b e e n tr a i n e d i n r a c k e t e e r i n g b y M ic h a e l J o h n s o n fr o m t h e U S . I h a v e b e e n tr a i n e d b y p r o s e c u t o r s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 20 H e r e i n S o u t h A f r ic a . T h e y s u r e ly d o n o t k n o w w h a t r a c k e te e r in g i s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o C h a ir s o t h i s w h o l e t h i n g c a r r i e d o n a n d o n a n d o n a n d th e n o n o n e p a r ti c u l a r d a y I w a s in f o r m e d t h a t M a b u l a a n d h is te a m w e r e d o n e h e r e t o a r r e s t s o m e o f the Cato Manor guys. S o I t o l d – I p h o n e d C o l o n e l O l iv ie r w h o w a s Page 93 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 t h e ir i m m e d i a te C o m m a n d e r a n d I s a i d t o W il li e g e t t h e g u y s t o g e t h e r. T h e y a r e g o i n g t o a r r e s t t h e m . L e t t h e m h a n d th e m s e lv e s o v e r. CHAIRPERSON: Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o t h e y a l l w e n t t o th e o ffic e a n d C a r l v a n d e r M e r w e t h e a tt o r n e y th e n p h o n e d M a b u l a a n d s a i d w e u n d e r s ta n d y o u w a n t t o a r r e s t t h e g u y s a n d M a b u la a n d t h e m d e n ie d i t i n i ti a l ly. S o m e r e p o r te r s w o u l d p h o n e t h e m b e c a u s e t h e r e p o r t e r s n o w h a d g o t w i n d o f t h is s t o r y a n d th e y c o u l d s e e t h e a c t iv i ty a t th e o n e h o te l t h a t t h e y w e r e s t a y i n g a t b u t t h e y a ll d e n i e d t h a t th e y 10 w e r e a b o u t t o a r r e s t t h e C a t o M a n o r g u y s b u t t h e y r e m a in e d a t th e o ffic e t h r o u g h o u t t h e n i g h t a n d t h e n e a r l y th a t m o r n in g s o m e o f th e d e t e c t iv e s o f C a to M a n o r ’s w iv e s s t a r t e d c a l li n g i n t o s a y l o o k t h e r e a r e a r m e d p o lic e o u t s i d e t h e h o u s e h e r e a n d – s o th e y a ll d e c i d e d t o g o h o m e a n d a s th e y w e n t h o m e a t o r a b o u t – m o s t o f t h e i n s ta n c e s t h e m e d i a w a s a lr e a d y w a i t in g th e r e . T h e y w e r e a r r e s t e d i n f u l l v i e w o f t h e m e d i a . T h e y w e r e t h e n t a k e n t o a c e n tr a l p o in t a t t h e a ir p o r t – a t t h e p o li c e ’s a ir w in g w h e r e th e y w e r e p a r a d e d i n fr o n t o f th e c a m e r a s . C h a ir s u b s e q u e n t t o t h a t th e y h a d t o r e a p p e a r i n c o u r t i n A u g u s t . t h i n k th e y a p p e a r e d i n J u n e – J u n e o r J u ly. 20 I T h e y h a d t o r e a p p e a r in August. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : O f w h ic h y e a r i f I m a y i n te r j e c t ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t w a s 2 0 1 2 . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : Thank you. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Page 94 of 108 C h a i r I g e t t h is c a l l 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 fr o m a – h e a s t h e n C o l o n e l B a r r a z a N c u b e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d h e s a y s to m e G e n e r a l c a n I s e e y o u b u t b y t h e n I h a d g o t te n u n c o m f o r t a b l e a n d I h a d w r i t t e n t o M a b u l a a n d h is te a m . W e h a d w r i t t e n t o t h e P r o s e c u ti n g A u t h o r i ty. I f t h e y w a n t t o a r r e s t m e b y a l l m e a n s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I w il l p r e s e n t m y s e l f wherever you want me. 10 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d w e d id th a t o n m o r e th a n o n e o c c a s i o n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d o n t h i s p a r t ic u l a r d a y I w a s d r iv i n g i n m y c a r a n d I r e c e iv e d – I g o t a p h o n e c a ll f r o m C o l o n e l B a r r a z a N c u b e . H e s a i d t o m e G e n e r a l I w o u l d l ik e t o s e e y o u . S o I s a id t o h i m w e ll d o y o u w a n t t o a r r e s t m e . H e s a y s o h m a y b e . S o I s a i d t o h i m w e ll it is n o t a jo k e . I f y o u w a n t to a r r e s t m e t e l l m e . H e s a y s n o h e h a s g o t a w a r r a n t f o r my a r r e s t . I s a id f in e . 20 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: W h e r e w o u l d y o u l ik e m e t o m e e t y o u . S o I s u g g e s t e d w e w il l m e e t a t m y o ffi c e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: o ffic e a n d I s a t t h e r e in m y b o a r d r o o m . Page 95 of 108 Drove back to my T h e n I w e n t t o a ll m y s ta ff 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 b e c a u s e I d i d n o t w a n t t h e m t o c o m e b a r g i n g in t h e r e a n d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o I c a ll e d a ll m y s t a ff a n d I s a i d l o o k t h is i s w h a t is g o in g t o h a p p e n . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: So do not be upset a n d g o b a c k t o y o u r o ff ic e s a n d c a r r y o n w i t h y o u r w o r k . About 20 m i n u t e s la t e r I p h o n e d h i m I s a id I a m s t il l w a i ti n g f o r y o u . H e s a i d n o t h e y a r e c o m i n g n o w. 10 S o i n t h e m e a n t i m e I g o t a p h o n e c a ll f r o m a m e m b e r o f t h e S p e c i a l Ta s k F o r c e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: N o w t h e S p e c i a l Ta s k F o r c e a r e p e o p l e w h o d e a l w i t h t e r r o r is ts a n d h o s t a g e s i t u a t io n s a n d I happened to work with these guys over years. They all knew me. So he said to me General we are on our way to come and arrest you. s a i d n o I k n o w. I a m w a i ti n g f o r y o u g u y s . I He said but we have got in s t r u c t i o n s t o h a n d c u ff y o u . I s a i d w e ll t h e n y o u h a v e t o c o m p l y w i th y o u r i n s tr u c t io n s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And then a few m i n u t e s l a t e r t h e y a r r iv e d a t m y o ff ic e in t h e b o a r d r o o m . B y t h e n I h a d s u m m o n e d my a t to r n e y. CHAIRPERSON : S o s p e c i f ic i n s tr u c t io n s h a d b e e n g iv e n t h a t y o u b e h a n d c u ffe d ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir. Page 96 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: S o th e y a r r i v e d th e r e w i t h th e S p e c i a l Ta s k F o r c e in t h e ir c a m o u fl a g e a n d I s a t i n m y o ff ic e a n d Br ig a d i e r N c u b e s a t a c r o s s m e a n d h e s h o w e d m e t h e w a r r a n t o f a r r e s t . I s a id w e l l I a m e n ti tl e d to a c o p y. H e g a v e m e a c o p y. I t h e n a s k e d h i m f o r a c o p y o f th e fo u n d in g a ff i d a v i t a n d h e d i d n o t e v e n k n o w w h a t a f o u n d i n g a ff id a v i t w a s . I h a d t o e x p l a i n to h i m w h a t a fo u n d i n g 10 a ffi d a v i t w a s . C h a ir i t w a s a c t u a ll y a f a r c e t h e w a y I w a s a r r e s t e d b e c a u s e it l o o k e d l ik e I w a s a r r e s t in g h i m b e c a u s e I w a s t a k i n g a l l th e n o t e s a n d h e w a s j u s t s i t t in g t h e r e . It was clear that he was under in s t r u c t i o n s a n d a f te r t h e f o r m a li t ie s h a d b e e n c o n c l u d e d h e s a id lo o k t h e y h a v e – w e h a v e t o g o b u t th e y h a v e t o h a n d c u ff m e . S o I s a id t o h i m C o lo n e l y o u h a v e g o t t h e S p e c ia l Ta s k F o r c e . These youngsters are fit and strong. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I am much older than t h e m . I m e a n – s u r e l y I d o n o t p o s e a d a n g e r. N o , n o , n o t h e y h a v e 20 g o t t o f o l l o w r u le s . I s a i d w e ll t h e n d o w h a t y o u h a v e t o d o . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Th e y t h e n to o k c a b l e ti e s a n d ti e d m y h a n d s in f r o n t o f m e a n d t h e n t h e y e s c o r t e d m e o u t o f t h e l i ft . T h e c le a n e r w a s s ti ll th e r e a n d t h e c le a n e r o f te n c o m e s to m y o ffic e . I g iv e h i m s o m e o f m y s a n d w ic h e s a n d h e l o o k e d a t m e – w h a t Page 97 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 is g o i n g o n n o w. W e g o t i n t o th e c a r a n d w e d r o v e to m y h o u s e a n d I lo o k e d a r o u n d a n d t h e r e w a s a n e n t o u r a g e o f m e d i a p e o p le f o l l o w in g us. S o t h e y o b v i o u s ly a l te r e d t h e m e d i a a s w e l l . We arrived at my h o u s e . M y d o m e s tic s h e i s u s e d t o th a t I b r i n g p e o p l e h o m e a n d s h e a l w a y s o ff e r e d t h e m w a t e r a n d s h e s t il l o ff e r e d th e m w a t e r, b u t w h e n s h e r e a l is e d n o t h e r e i s s o m e t h in g e ls e g o i n g o n s h e g o t n a s ty w i th t h e m . I s a i d n o D o r o t h y [ fo r e i g n w o r d ] a n d s ta y c a l m . C h a ir w e w e n t to my – they ransacked my house. I d o not know what they were lo o k in g f o r a n d t h e n a t s o m e p o i n t N c u b e s a y s to m e w h e r e is y o u r 10 o ffic i a l fir e a r m . I s a i d y o u s e e N c u b e y o u a r e o n ly i n t e r e s te d i n e m b a r r a s s in g m e b y h a n d c u ff in g m e i n f r o n t o f t h e p e o p le a n d d r a g g i n g m e o u t o f t h e o ff ic e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: But th e most i m p o r t a n t t h i n g y o u s h o u ld h a v e d o n e is t o lo o k w h e r e my fi r e a r m is . S o I l if t e d m y – my p a n t s a n d I s a i d t h e r e i s m y fir e a r m . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d h e s t il l s a i d y o u c o u l d h a v e s h o t u s . I s a i d e x a c t ly. 20 CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d th e n I h a n d e d m y fir e a r m t o t h e m b u t I fir s t s a i d t o t h e m I w a n t t h e m t o t a k e a photograph. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Page 98 of 108 Which they did 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 b e c a u s e t h e y h a d t h e p o l ic e p h o to g r a p h e r t h e r e . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And I said I want to s e e th e p h o t o g r a p h a n d I h a d a lo o k a t it a n d I c o u l d n o t s e e m y b a t h r o o m i n t h e b a c k g r o u n d b e c a u s e I w a n te d t o u s e t h a t p h o t o g r a p h . I h a d t o a s k t h e m t o t a k e a n o t h e r o n e w h ic h t h e y d i d . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: A n d t h e n C h a ir w e w e n t to t h e a ir w i n g . C h a ir I h a v e – I a m o n e o f t h e p o lic e o ffi c e r s th a t 10 h a v e p r o b a b l y f lo w n – w h o i s n o t p a r t o f t h e a ir w i n g – th a t h a s p r o b a b ly f l o w n t h e m o s t i n t h e p o l ic e h e l ic o p t e r o v e r th e y e a r s . p o li c e a ir w i n g is a s e c u r e p l a c e . Th e It h a s g o t a p r o b a b l y a f o u r m e tr e high fence. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h e n y o u e n t e r th e r e y o u h a v e g o t to b u z z a n d th e y l o o k a t y o u a n d t h e y i d e n t i fy y o u . T h e y o p e n t h is h u g e g a te a n d th e n y o u p r o c e e d . O n t h i s p a r t ic u l a r d a y a n d a ft e r th e y h a d a r r e s t e d m e t h a t g a t e w a s s t a n d in g o p e n . W e d r o v e in a n d i t l o o k e d li k e t h e O s c a r s . I t w a s j u s t p a p a r a z z i a n d c a m e r a s . S o 20 w e d r o v e a r o u n d th e b a c k . T h e y t o o k m e in t h e b a c k a n d a f e w o f t h e o th e r g u y s w h o th e y h a d a l s o n o w a r r e s t e d . So we went in and they s t a r t e d w i t h t h e – b u t i t w a s c l e a r t o m e t h a t N c u b e – a n d I s ti ll s a i d t o h i m y o u a r e p la y i n g w i th t i m e h e r e b e c a u s e I n e e d to – I w a n t t o g o a n d a p p ly fo r b a i l. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Page 99 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And then he would lo o k h a l fw a y t h r o u g h t h e fo r m s a n d t h e n h e m a d e a m is t a k e . Th e n h e w o u ld s t a r t a l l o v e r a g a in c le a r ly p l a y i n g f o r ti m e . T h e n a Ta s k F o r c e m e m b e r c a m e i n t o m y o ff ic e . H e s a id to m e t h e y h a v e j u s t b e e n a d m o n is h e d b y – b y G e n e r a l M a b u l a . I s a id w h y. H e s a i d n o b e c a u s e w e d id n o t ta k e y o u i n t h e fr o n t w h e r e t h e m e d i a w a s . S o I g o t u p a n d I B a r r a z a e x c u s e m e o n e s e c o n d . I w e n t t o M a b u l a I s a i d t o h i m – I s a id t o h i m J a n I d o n o t m i n d i f y o u a r r e s t m e o r i n v e s ti g a te m e b u t d o n o t m a k e a c ir c u s o f t h is t h i n g . 10 L e n A n g u s fr o m I P I D . T h e n h e s a i d n o i t is n o t h i m . I t is I w e n t to L e n A n g u s I s a i d t o L e n A n g u s lis t e n y o u w a n t t o m a k e a c ir c u s w e ll l e t u s p u t a t e n t a r o u n d th is p la c e th e n . S o h e s a id n o , n o , n o . H e h a s g o t n o p r o b le m i f w e l e a v e t h a t w e s h o u l d g o a r o u n d t h e b a c k a g a i n a n d t h e n w h e n t h e y fi n a ll y p r o c e s s e d u s b y n o w it is t o o l a te to g o t o c o u r t . So I knew now tonight I am s le e p i n g i n s id e th e – t h e c e ll s . CHAIRPERSON : Hm. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: My s e l f a n d a c o u p l e of my colleagues. CHAIRPERSON : Hm. 20 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: So – and Angus c o m e s b a c k t o m e a n d h e s a y s t o m e M a b u l a is a d a m a n t w e m u s t g o t h r o u g h t h e fr o n t . I s a id n o w w e ll t h e n w e g o t h r o u g h t h e fr o n t w h e r e t h e m e d i a is a n d I w a s w a lk i n g i n t h e fr o n t w i t h t h e r e s t o f m y g u y s b e h in d m e a n d t h e n A n g u s c a m e t o m e . H e s a i d t o m e G e n e r a l i f it i s g o i n g to m a k e y o u fe e l m o r e c o m f o r ta b le I c a n t a k e y o u r c o a t a n d p u t i t Page 100 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 over your head. I said to him Len I have never had any reason to hide m y f a c e , I a m n o t g o i n g t o h id e m y f a c e , I w a n t t o w a lk o u t a n d I w i ll f a c e t h e c a m e r a s , I t u r n e d a r o u n d a n d I s a i d t o m y g u y s th o s e o f y o u w h o w a n t t o c o v e r y o u r f a c e s , y o u ’r e w e l c o m e t o d o s o , I a m n o t g o in g t o d o t h a t , a n d w e a l l w a lk e d o u t a n d t h e fl a s h e s g o in g a n d C h a ir i t w a s a c t u a ll y e m b a r r a s s i n g , n o t t h e m e d i a , th e m e d i a k n e w m e , b u t g o i n g t h r o u g h t h a t p a s s a g e w i th j u n i o r p o lic e o ff ic e r s , c o n s t a b l e s , s e r g e a n t s , a l l s t a n d i n g t h e r e w i t h t h e ir c e l l p h o n e s , h e r e c o m e s th e G e n e r a l i n h a n d c u ffs , th a t t o m e w a s p r o b a b ly th e m o s t e m b a r r a s s in g . 10 T h e y p u t u s in a v e h i c l e a n d w e w e r e t a k e n t o D u r b a n N o r th P o lic e S t a ti o n , w h e r e w e w e r e d e t a in e d f o r th e n i g h t a n d t h e f o l lo w i n g w e a p p e a r e d in c o u r t a n d w e w e r e g r a n t e d , w e l l t h e y d i d n o t o p p o s e b a il a n d w e w e r e g r a n te d R 5 0 0 0 b a il e a c h , a n d th e n C h a i r l a te r o n w e were charged for racketeering ,those were the charges against us and t h e m a i n a ll e g a ti o n w a s t h a t a n u m b e r o f s h o o t in g i n c i d e n t s o v e r a p e r i o d o f t h r e e a n d a h a l f y e a r s t h e y a l le g e d t h a t t h o s e s h o o t i n g s w e r e e x tr a j u d ic i a l k i ll in g s . A t le a s t C h a ir f i v e o f t h o s e p e o p l e t h a t t h e y w e r e a c c u s e d o f h a v i n g k il le d u n l a w f u l ly a t le a s t fi v e o f th o s e m a t t e r s in q u e s t p r o c e e d i n g s h a d b e e n f in a lis e d a n d m a g i s tr a t e s h a d m a d e 20 fi n d i n g s r u l in g i n fa v o u r o f t h e C a t o M a n o r m e m b e r s . I n o th e r c a s e s I’ m a w a r e o f , h a d a lr e a d y b e e n t o th e D P P f o r d e c is i o n , t h e y w e r e n o ll e p r o s e q u i d e c l i n e d t o p r o s e c u t e , s o m e w e r e s t il l u n d e r i n v e s t ig a ti o n . S o C h a ir a s C h a ir is a w a r e o n c e y o u a r e p r o s e c u t e d y o u a r e e n t i tl e d to c o p i e s o f t h e d o c k e t , s o t h e y p r o v i d e d u s w i t h c o p i e s o f t h e d o c k e ts a n d a t th a t p o i n t C h a ir I t h o u g h t w h e n a l l Page 101 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 t h is is g o i n g o n y o u s t a r t to d o u b t y o u r s e l f, a n d th e n y o u s t a r t t o w o n d e r w h e r e d i d I d o s o m e th in g w r o n g , a n d y o u t o s s a n d t u r n in b e d a n d I t h o u g h t o k a y t h e t h in g i t c a n b e t h e y m u s t h a v e fa b r ic a te d a c a s e a g a in s t m e a n d t h e y m u s t h a v e t a k e n f a ls e s t a te m e n ts . S o I to o k t h e d o c k e ts h o m e a n d n o w I ’ m r e a d i n g th r o u g h th e d o c k e ts , t h e r e w e r e 2 3 d o c k e ts C h a ir, b u t I d o n ’ t f i g u r e a n y w h e r e , I ’ m n o t fi n d i n g t h e s t a te m e n ts th a t I t h o u g h t w e r e f a b r i c a t e d s t a t e m e n t s . T h e r e w e r e t h r e e s t a t e m e n ts w h e r e m y n a m e a p p e a r, t h e o n e is fr o m a C a p t a i n I t h i n k i t’s P ill a y w h o s a y s h e w e n t to t h e H o w ic k s h o o ti n g 10 s c e n e , w h e n h e a r r iv e d t h e r e h e s a w th e p o li c e h e li c o p t e r s t a n d i n g o n t h e fr e e w a y, a n d h e a ls o s a w G e n e r a l B o o y s e n t h e r e , t h a t’s th e s u m t o t a l o f h is e v id e n c e . T h e o t h e r o n e w a s th e c r e w o f t h e h e l ic o p t e r w h o s a y s t h e y p ic k e d u p G e n e r a l B o o y s e n a t th e A ir w i n g , w e fl e w t h e r e , w e l a n d e d , B o o y s e n h a d a l o o k a t th e s c e n e , w e fl e w b a c k . e x t e n t o f h i s s ta t e m e n t. Th a t w a s t h e fu ll T h e r e w a s a t h ir d s t a te m e n t , t h a t p e r s o n ’s n a m e w a s C o c h r a n e , t h e r e w a s a t h i r d s t a te m e n t b y S h a m il a W i lli a m s fr o m I P I D i n w h ic h s h e a t t e n d e d t o a s h o o ti n g i n D u r b a n N o r t h a t s o m e s t a g e . I h a p p e n e d t o a r r iv e a t t h a t s c e n e f iv e h o u r s a ft e r w a r d s a n d s h e 20 m e r e ly m e n t i o n s in h e r s ta t e m e n t t h a t a f te r s h e h a d a t te n d e d th e s c e n e I a ls o s a w h e r a n d I t h in k a t t h a t s t a g e , I c a n ’t r e m e m b e r i f i t w a s a B r i g a d ie r o r a G e n e r a l b u t s h e s a y s I s a w G e n e r a l B r i g a d i e r B o o y s e n , b u t t h a t i s m u c h l a te r. Th a t w a s t h e s u m t o ta l o f m y n a m e s in t h e d o c k e t. C H A I R P E R S O N : In t h e d o c k e t j a . Page 102 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: So C h a ir I i m m e d i a t e ly a p p r o a c h e d m y a t to r n e y a n d I s a id to h i m l o o k I ’ m n o t h a p p y w i th t h is , I m e a n h o w c a n y o u c h a r g e a p e r s o n o r r a c k e t e e r i n g , I h a v e b e e n tr a i n e d C h a ir i n r a c k e te e r in g , I’ v e . .. ( i n te r v e n ti o n ) C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u k n o w w h a t i t i s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: I k n o w C h a ir a n d a s P r o v i n c ia l H e a d o f t h e H a w k s w e h a v e s e e n a c o u p le c a s e s t h r o u g h o f r a c k e t e e r i n g , I k n o w w h a t i t t a k e s t o c o n v in c e t h e N D P P t o s i g n t h a t S e c t io n 2 1 c e r ti fi c a t e , s o I t o o k t h e m a t t e r o n r e v ie w C h a ir, t h e 10 d e c is i o n t o p r o s e c u te m e o n t h e b a s i s o f le g a l i ty a n d ir r a ti o n a li ty. I fi le d m y f o u n d i n g a ff id a v i t a n d t h e n in t h e a n s w e r i n g a ff i d a v i t o f t h e t h e n a c ti n g i n D P P A d v o c a t e N o m g c o b o J i b a s h e fi le s th r e e e x tr a s t a te m e n ts t h a t d i d n o t fo r m p a r t o f t h e d o c k e t , t h e o n e is o f a d e c e a s e d p e r s o n w h o d o e s n o t i m p li c a t e m e i n t h e o ff e n c e th a t I w a s b e i n g c h a r g e d f o r, h e m e r e l y m e n t i o n s s o m e w h e r e t h a t h e h a d h e a r d – n o w th is p e r s o n i s n o w d e a d C h a ir, t h i s p e r s o n h a d h e a r d t w o o t h e r p e o p l e s a y i n g t h a t th e y s h o o t t h e p e o p l e i n th e t a x i v io l e n c e is s u e s a n d t h e n th e y c o ll e c t m o n e y a n d th e n t h e y p a y C a t o M a n o r a n d b ig b o s s boys. 20 N o w C h a ir a s f a r a s I’ m c o n c e r n e d t h a t ’s h e a r s a y t w i c e r e m o v e d , b u t I w o n ’ t g o i n to th a t , b u t t h e t w o p e o p l e t h a t t h e y m e n ti o n a r e – w e l l u p u n t il r e c e n tly w e r e b o t h s t il l a liv e , t h e y w e r e n e v e r a p p r o a c h e d t o c o n f ir m t h o s e d i s c u s s io n s , t o th e c o n tr a r y w h e n t h o s e s t a te m e n ts w e r e d is c o v e r e d to u s t h r o u g h C r i m e In t e l li g e n c e I g a v e i t t o C o lo n e l v a n d e r Vy fe r I s a id d o y o u k n o w t h e s e p e o p l e , t h e y t h e n Page 103 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 e v e n t u a l ly t r a c e d t h e m a n d s h o w e d t h e m t h e s t a te m e n ts , a n d t h e y th e n w e n t to t h e ir a tt o r n e y, w h i c h w a s M a ll o y & P a r t n e r s a n d ir o n ic a l ly w h o t h e n s p o k e t o A d v o c a te S t ix M d l a d l a w h o th e n t o o k s t a t e m e n t s f r o m t h o s e p e o p l e t h a t a p p a r e n tly h a d s a i d th a t th e y c o l l e c te d m o n e y fo r C a t o M a n o r a n d w h e n w h ic h t h e y d is a v o w e d e v e r y s i n g l e a s p e c t o f th e s t a te m e n t , i n f a c t t h e p e r s o n th a t , t h e d e c e a s e d p e r s o n t h a t a p p a r e n t ly h a d m a d e t h a t s t a te m e n t w a s o u t o n b a i l h i m s e l f f o r m u r d e r. S o th a t s t a te m e n t i s o n e o f t h e s t a t e m e n t s w h i c h J ib a a t t a c h e s , t h e r e ’s a n o th e r o n e , a n u n s i g n e d s t a t e m e n t fr o m a G r e e k c i t iz e n , w h o h a p p e n to b e a 10 fr i e n d o f m i n e , h e is n o l o n g e r a fr i e n d o f m in e C h a ir, i n w h ic h h e m a k e s w il d a l le g a ti o n s b u t n o th i n g p e r ta i n i n g t o r a c k e t e e r i n g . It ’s m o r e m is c h ie v o u s n e s s th a n t h e c o m m i s s i o n o f o ff e n c e s , b u t t h a t p a r t ic u l a r d o c u m e n t i s n o t s ig n e d , a n d th e n t h e r e a r e t w o s t a t e m e n t s o f a C o l o n e l , a v e r y c o n t r o v e r s i a l c o l o n e l i n K Z N , C o lo n e l R a j e n A i y e r, b u t C h a ir i f y o u r e a d t h o s e s ta t e m e n ts i t l o o k s li k e a – i t’s i n c o h e r e n t t o s a y th e l e a s t, b u t n o w h e r e d o e s i t t a l k a b o u t a n y o ff e n c e , i t ’s p u r e , p u r e o ffi c e p o li t ic s . B u t J i b a th e n s a y s s h e c o n s id e r e d e v id e n c e u n d e r o a th , e v i d e n c e i n th e d o c k e ts a n d e v id e n c e u n d e r o a t h . I – a n d t h e n t h e o n e 20 s t a te m e n t t a k e n fr o m A iy e r w a s d a t e d t w o w e e k s a f t e r s h e h a d a u t h o r i s e d th e p r o s e c u ti o n . T h e o n e o f D a n n ic a s i s n o t u n d e r o a t h , i t’s n o t s ig n e d , i t ’s f o r a ll i n te n ts a n d p u r p o s e s n o o n e k n o w s w h e r e i t c o m e s fr o m a t t h a t t i m e , s o I fi l e d a r e p l y i n g a ff id a v i t i n w h i c h I a c c u s e o f b e in g m e n d a c i o u s a n d I e x p la i n to h e r h o w c o u l d y o u h a v e c o n s i d e r e d e v i d e n c e w h ic h o b je c t iv e l y s e e n c o u l d n o t h a v e e x i s te d a t Page 104 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 t h e ti m e th a t y o u to o k th e d e c is io n . S h e d i d n o t t a k e u p m y i n v it a ti o n , lo n g s t o r y s h o r t C h a ir J u d g e G o r v a n r u l e d in m y f a v o u r, h e s a id n o n e o f t h e e v i d e n c e i n th e d o c k e ts l in k m e t o t h e c o m m i s s io n o f a n y o ffe n c e , n o n e o f t h e s t a t e m e n t s t h a t J i b a b e l a t e d ly a d d e d li n k s m e t o th e – w e l l t h e y d o n ’ t l in k a n y o n e t o t h e c o m m is s i o n o f a n o ffe n c e . S u b s e q u e n t t o th a t C h a ir n o r m a lly t h e p o l ic e a r e s u p p o s e d t o b e . . .( i n t e r v e n t i o n ) C H A I R P E R S O N : S o th e r e v i e w a p p l ic a ti o n s u c c e e d s ? M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t s u c c e e d e d C h a ir. 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s a n d t h e d e c is i o n t o c h a r g e y o u is s e t a s id e , w a s set aside as a result of the review? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: No the – Chair so in o r d e r to p r o s e c u t e a p e r s o n f o r r a c k e t e e r i n g th e r e m u s t b e tw o p r e d ic a te o ffe n c e s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: S o w h a t th e y d i d is t h e o n e i n c i d e n t th a t I h a d g o n e to H o w ic k f o r. CHAIRPERSON : Ja. MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: 20 wonder where, how senior advocates And understand sometimes th e l a w, I for r a c k e t e e r i n g y o u m u s t h a v e c o m m i t t e d t w o p r e d ic a t e o ff e n c e s , n o w w h a t t h e y d id i n t h a t p a r t ic u l a r i n s t a n c e th e y a l le g e d t h a t a t t h e H o w ic k m a t t e r w h e r e I f l e w t o , t h e a l le g a t i o n s t h a t I fl e w t h e r e a n d I p la n t e d a n A K 4 7 o n t h e s c e n e , b u t C h a ir in t h e b o o k t h a t I w r o t e t h a t’s w h a t – I put that on the cover because it was Page 105 of 108 taken by a newspaper 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 p h o t o g r a p h e r t o – I s ti ll c a n ’ t fi n d t h e A K 4 7 t h a t I w a s s u p p o s e d t o h a v e p l a n te d th e r e . CHAIRPERSON : S o w h a t I a m i n te r e s t e d i n is w h a t w a s t h e a c t u a l o r d e r, th e e ffe c t o f t h e o r d e r i n t h e r e v ie w a p p lic a ti o n ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: But Chair what was s e t a s id e , th e J u d g e s e t a s i d e th e p r e d ic a t e o ff e n c e s t h a t w a s m u r d e r, b e c a u s e th e y a ll e g e d th a t I – t h e r e ’s a c o m m o n p u r p o s e f o r th e H o w ic k m a t t e r a n d p o s s e s s io n o f u n l ic e n s e d fir e a r m , t h e A K 4 7 , p o s s e s s io n o f u n li c e n s e d a m m u n i ti o n fo r t h e A K 4 7 a n d d e f e a t i n g t h e e n d s o f j u s t ic e 10 f o r p la n ti n g th e fir e a r m . C h a ir th e r e is n o t e v e n r e m o te ly a s u g g e s t io n o r n o t h i n g w h a ts o e v e r i n t h e d o c k e t s t h a t r e m o t e ly s u g g e s ts s o m e th i n g l ik e t h a t , it ’s s o m e t h i n g t h a t t h e y m a d e u p . CHAIRPERSON : Mmm, mmm. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : C h a ir to ju s t a s s is t w i t h t h e r e v i e w. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o ti n g t h e ti m e th o u g h , a t p a r a g r a p h 1 5 4 a c o p y o f th e a c tu a l j u d g m e n t a p p e a r s . C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , w h a t’s t h e o r d e r, i s t h e o r d e r a s h o r t o r d e r, is i t a 20 lo n g o r d e r ? ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: C h a ir i f I m a y w i th y o u r l e a v e j u s t r e a d q u ic k ly. CHAIRPERSON : Ja. ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: A t p a g e 1 8 0 w h i c h is p a r a g r a p h 3 6 , a t t h e e n d o f th a t p a r a g r a p h th e J u d g e fi n d s t h a t – a n d I r e a d : Page 106 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 “ I c a n c o n c e iv e o f n o t e s t f o r r a t i o n a l i t y, h o w e v e r r e l a x e d , w h ic h c o u l d b e s a ti s f i e d b y h e r e x p l a n a t io n . Th e i m p u g n e d d e c is i o n s w e r e a r b i tr a r y, o ff e n d t h e p r i n c ip le o f l e g a li ty, a n d t h e r e f o r e t h e R u l e o f la w, a n d w e r e u n c o n s ti t u ti o n a l .” I n p a r a g r a p h 3 8 th e fir s t s e n t e n c e r e a d s : “ I h a s te n to e m p h a s i z e t h a t t h i s o u tc o m e i s b a s e d p u r e l y o n t h e f a c ts o f t h e p r e s e n t c a s e .” A n d p a r a g r a p h 3 9 . . .( i n te r v e n t io n ) C H A I R P E R S O N : It ’s t h e o r d e r th a t I a m r e a l ly i n te r e s te d i n . 10 ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: T h e o r d e r is th a t s a v e f o r th e in t e r d ic t w h ic h M r B o o y s e n s o u g h t th e r e m a in i n g p r a y e r s w e r e g r a n te d . . .( i n te r v e n t io n ) C H A I R P E R S O N : O h , a n d t h e p r a y e r s . . .( i n te r v e n ti o n ) A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n t h a t . . .( i n t e r v e n t i o n ) C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , o k a y. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n th a t , if I c o u l d i t s t a t e s th a t th e r e – at page 183: “ T h e r e ’s n o b a s is f o r th e i n t e r d i c t s o u g h t b y Mr B o o y s e n i n p a r a g r a p h 3 , e it h e r i n th e f o r m s o u g h t o r i n a n y o th e r f o r m .” 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y n o w t h a t ’s fi n e . ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : And then: “ I n th e r e s u lt t h e o r d e r is g r a n t e d th a t in t e r m s o f p a r a g r a p h s A , B , C , D a n d F r e fe r r e d t o i n p a r a g r a p h 3 o f t h e ju d g m e n t. ” E ff e c t iv e ly a l l th e d e c is i o n s a r e s e t a s i d e . C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , o k a y. Page 107 of 108 18 APRIL 2019 – DAY 86 A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : S a v e f o r th e i n t e r d ic t . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y n o t h a t ’s f in e , I w i l l h a v e a lo o k . S o th e r e v i e w a p p lic a ti o n w a s s u c c e s s fu l , a n d a f t e r t h a t t h e c r i m i n a l p r o c e e d i n g s a g a in s t y o u a r is i n g fr o m t h a t w e r e g o n e ? MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Th e y w e r e w i t h d r a w n in c o u r t c h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : T h e y w e r e w it h d r a w n i n c o u r t . T h a t m ig h t b e th e c o n v e n i e n t t i m e fo r u s to a d j o u r n fo r to d a y, a n d t h e n w h e n w e r e s u m e t h e n w e c a n c o n t in u e , b u t a t l e a s t w e ’v e r e a c h e d a p o i n t w h e r e y o u 10 b r o u g h t a r e v i e w a p p li c a t io n , a n d i t w a s s u c c e s s f u l a n d t h e c r i m i n a l c h a r g e s w e r e w i th d r a w n a n d t h e n w e c a n t a k e i t fu r t h e r n e x t ti m e . M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a n k y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Is th a t f i n e w i t h y o u ? A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : As i t p le a s e s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON : O k a y a lr i g h t , w e a r e g o i n g t o a d jo u r n , w e a r e n o t g o i n g t o s it n e x t w e e k , w e w il l c o n t in u e o n th e 2 n d o f M a y, s o y o u c a n t h e n c o n ti n u e w it h y o u r e v i d e n c e . Is t h e r e a n y th i n g M r P r e t o r iu s w a n ts to say? A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : N o C h a ir, t h a n k y o u . 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, a lr ig h t , t h a n k y o u . A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : I p r e s u m e w e s ta r t a t th e n o r m a l ti m e , t e n o ’ c l o c k ? C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s w e w il l s ta r t a t t e n o ’c l o c k o n t h e 2 n d o f M a y, w e w i ll t h e n a d jo u r n . W e a d j o u r n I N Q U I RY A D J O U R N S Page 108 of 108