C O M M I S S I O N O F I N Q U I RY I N TO S TAT E C A P T U R E
H E L D AT
PA R K TO W N , J O H A N N E S B U R G

10

0 2 M AY 2 0 1 9

D AY 8 7

20

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
P R O C E E D I N G S O N 2 M AY 2 0 1 9
CHAIRPERSON :

Good

morning

Ms

S e p t e m b e r,

good

m o r n in g

e v e r y b o d y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : G o o d m o r n in g C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : M o r n i n g C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Morning Major General Booysen.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : M o r n i n g C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a n k y o u . W e c o n ti n u e fr o m w h e r e w e le f t o ff?
10

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : B e fo r e w e d o I u n d e r s t a n d t h a t
w e h a v e c o l le a g u e s w h o a r e s e a te d h e r e w h o m a y w is h t o p l a c e
themselves on record.
C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y [ n o t s p e a k in g in t o m ic r o p h o n e ]
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : W e h a v e l e g a l r e p r e s e n ta t iv e s ?
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

Who

may

wish

to

place

themselves on record.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e y h a v e n o t r e p la c e d t h e m s e l v e s o n r e c o r d y e t ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, a lr i g h t le t t h e m p l a c e th e m s e lv e s o n r e c o r d ?
A D V YA N G A L U D I D I : M o r n i n g , m o r n i n g C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Good morning.
A D V YA N G A L U D I D I :

M y n a m e is Ya n g a L u d id i fr o m t h e o ffi c e o f t h e

Page 2 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
s t a te a t to r n e y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V YA N G A L U D I D I : Ye s I a m h e r e t o r e p r e s e n t M a j o r G e n e r a l
Mnonopi and Advocate Mtolo.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V YA N G A L U D I D I : Ye s .
CHAIRPERSON :

Thank you.

I t i s a – M r Pr e t o r i u s w e – w e n e e d t o

r e fl e c t o f w h a t th e i m p li c a t io n s a r e o f th e f a c t t h a t th e l e g a l t e a m o f t h e
c o m m i s s io n is t e c h n ic a l ly b r i e fe d b y t h e s t a t e a t t o r n e y a s I u n d e r s t a n d
10

it . B u t t h e s t a t e a t t o r n e y a l s o r e p r e s e n ts s o m e i m p l ic a t e d p e r s o n s . I –
t h a t h a d n o t o c c u r r e d t o m e . I t ju s t o c c u r s n o w. I d o n o t k n o w w h e th e r
y o u h a v e h a d a c h a n c e t o t h in k a b o u t it b u t w e w i ll n e e d t o r e f le c t o n i t .
It may be – it may be that I should not be concerned but on the face of
it it s e e m s t h a t i t n e e d s r e f l e c ti o n . O k a y.
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E T O R I U S S C : I h a v e n o t e d w h a t y o u h a v e s a i d
DCJ
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C :

A n d I w il l d is c u s s i t w i th y o u

la t e r.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : A n d g iv e i t s o m e t h o u g h t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t i s f in e . Ye s .
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : A s t o h o w i t c a n b e d e a l t w i th .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , j a , th a t is f in e .
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : A n y c h a n g e in a n y s y s t e m w it h

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h e c o m m i s s io n u n f o r t u n a te ly t a k e s ti m e .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : A n d o n e w o u l d n o t w a n t t h a t to
be disrupted.
CHAIRPERSON :

N o , n o , I u n d e r s t a n d t h a t.

T h a t is p a r tl y w h y I a m

s a y in g w e n e e d to r e f le c t o n i t .
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : Ye s .
CHAIRPERSON :

B u t e q u a l ly w e n e e d t o r e f l e c t o n w h a t d a n g e r s i t

might pose.
10

A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : Ye s .
CHAIRPERSON : If…
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C :

N o w I u n d e r s t a n d th a t .

I t is a

concern.
CHAIRPERSON : Because a…
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : A n d w e w i ll h a v e t o a d d r e s s it .
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a b e c a u s e s o t o s p e a k a s I u n d e r s t a n d t h e p o s i ti o n
t h e s t a t e a t t o r n e y b e c o m e s in s t r u c ti n g a t t o r n e y s t o y o u p e o p le a n d a n
in s t r u c t i n g a tt o r n e y h a s a c c e s s to c e r t a i n th in g s a n d in r e g a r d t o
c o u n s e l th a t th e y in s t r u c t a n d i f t h e y a ls o i n s tr u c t c o u n s e l w h o
20

r e p r e s e n ts a n i m p l ic a t e d p e r s o n w h a t d o e s t h a t m e a n ? S o w e n e e d to
r e fl e c t o n t h a t a s w e ll .
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : Ye s . N o i t is a v a li d p o in t .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : A n d w e w i ll in v e s t i g a t e i t .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.

Page 4 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E T O R I U S S C : T h i s is t h e fir s t ti m e t h a t I h a v e
b e c o m e a w a r e o f th is c ir c u m s t a n c e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s . O k a y.
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : Th a n k y o u C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a n k y o u . Is t h e r e a n o t h e r m e m b e r ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s t h e r e is .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s t h a n k y o u .
A D V J N M A L I N G A : G o o d m o r n i n g C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Good morning.
10

A D V J N M A L I N G A : M y n a m e i s [i n d i s t in c t ] M a li n g a . I a m f r o m M a li n g a
Attorneys.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
ADV JN MALINGA:

I w o u ld l ik e t o p u t m y s e l f o n r e c o r d o n b e h a l f o f

B r i g a d ie r N c a b a .
CHAIRPERSON : Brigadier?
ADV JN MALINGA: Ncaba.
CHAIRPERSON : Ncaba?
A D V J N M A L I N G A : T h a t is c o r r e c t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y th a n k y o u v e r y m u c h .
20

A D V J N M A L I N G A : As w e ll a s L i e u te n a n t G e n e r a l M a t a k a t a .
CHAIRPERSON : Who?
A D V J N M A L I N G A : L i e u t e n a n t G e n e r a l M a ta k a t a .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y th a n k y o u v e r y m u c h .
A D V J N M A L I N G A : T h a n k y o u C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.

Page 5 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

C h a ir th e r e

is o n e l a s t q u ic k m a t t e r a n d t h a t is t h a t a n a d d i ti o n a l b u n d l e is b e fo r e
you. It is marked Exhibit ZG.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h y e s it h a s b e e n h a n d e d to – i t w a s h a n d e d t o m e
in th e p a s t f e w d a y s .

I u n d e r s ta n d t h a t t o b e t h e f u l l r e p o r t o f t h e

M o k g o r o I n q u ir y ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I b e g l e a v e t h a t i t f o r m s p a r t o f
10

t h e d o c u m e n t s b e fo r e y o u .
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a n k y o u . T h a t w il l b e E x h i b i t Z G .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s .
CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th a n k y o u C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t w e w il l n o t n e e d it f o r t o d a y is i t o r w il l w e ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : W e w il l n e e d it f o r to d a y C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h o k a y. A lr ig h t th a n k y o u .
A D V O C AT E

VERUSHKA

SEPTEMBER :

Based

on

the

long

adjournment…
20

CHAIRPERSON :

W h a t p a g e w e r e w e o n t h e l a s t ti m e I t h o u g h t I h a d

m a r k e d b u t i t d o e s n o t l o o k li k e I d i d ?
A D V O C AT E

VERUSHKA

SEPTEMBER :

The

witness

was

g iv in g

e v i d e n c e in r e l a ti o n t o t h e C a to M a n o r in v e s t i g a t o r w h i c h b e g in s a t
Exhibit bundle ZA page 23.
CHAIRPERSON : Thank you. Let me just check something before you

Page 6 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
p r o c e e d . O k a y th a n k y o u .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

B e fo r e w e

c o m m e n c e w h e r e w e l e f t o ff …
CHAIRPERSON :

Major

General

Booysen

have you

got

a ll

th e

d o c u m e n ts t h a t w e a ll h a v e ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t h i n k I d o C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. B e fo r e w e –
b e f o r e w e g e t t o w h e r e w e l e ft o ff o n t h e l a s t o c c a s i o n y o u w i ll r e c a ll
10

G e n e r a l B o o y s e n t h a t y o u g a v e e v id e n c e i n r e l a t i o n t o t h e To s h a n
P a n d a y c a s e w h i c h w a s g u i d e d b y t h e t i m e li n e i n S li d e 2 .

Is t h e r e

a n y th in g in p a r tic u la r t h a t y o u w i s h t o a d d i n a d d i t io n t o t h e e v i d e n c e
t h a t y o u h a d g iv e n in r e l a t io n to t h a t m a t t e r ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n d e e d t h e r e is C h a ir.
O n e th in g t h a t – t h a t c o n c e r n s m e a n d i t h a s b e e n o f a g r e a t c o n c e r n to
m e o v e r t h e l a s t c o u p l e o f y e a r s . A s w e s p e a k o r t h e C o lo n e l fr o m t h e
S o u th A f r ic a n P o l ic e S e r v ic e C o l o n e l N a v in M a d h o e w h o h a d p u t j u s t
u n d e r R 1 . 4 m il li o n i n t h e b o o t o f m y c a r in a n a t te m p t t o b r i b e m e – h e
is s t il l a t w o r k . A f t e r th a t e v e n t I w a s a r r e s t e d a n d s u s p e n d e d . I w i ll
20

d e a l w i th t h a t b u t t h e p r o b l e m t h a t I h a v e i s t h a t C o l o n e l N a v i n M a d h o e
is s ti ll s i tt i n g in t h e s a m e p o s i t io n d e a l i n g w i t h t h e s a m e m a t t e r s a n d i t
h a d b e e n b r o u g h t t o m y a t te n ti o n b y a s e n i o r p e r s o n f r o m F i n a n c e s t h a t
s o m e o f th e s e ir r e g u l a r a c t iv i t ie s a f te r m y d e p a r t u r e s t il l c o n ti n u e d .
N o w I c a n n o t c o n f ir m s o I – I h a v e n o t b e e n a b le t o i n d e p e n d e n t ly
v e r i fy t h a t b u t h e d id r e p o r t th a t to m e a n d it is a v e r y s e n i o r p e r s o n

Page 7 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
fr o m F i n a n c e s i n K w a Zu lu N a t a l .

There are – there are two matters.

T h e o n e is t h e R 6 0 m il li o n c o r r u p t i o n i n v e s ti g a ti o n a n d t h e n t h e a t t e m p t
t o b r ib e m e .

S o w h a t h a p p e n e d is C h a ir w h e n h e w a s a r r e s t e d a f t e r

t h e y a tt e m p t e d t o b r i b e m e th e r e w a s a n a tt e m p t t o h a v e a d is c i p li n a r y
h e a r in g o n C o lo n e l N a v i n M a d h o e . H o w e v e r h e m a n a g e d to o b t a i n a n
in t e r d ic t p r e v e n t in g t h e p o l ic e f r o m c o n ti n u i n g w i t h th a t p a r t ic u l a r
d is c i p l i n a r y h e a r in g b e c a u s e t h e y h a d f o ll o w e d t h e w r o n g p r o c e d u r e s .
B u t t h a t i n t e r d ic t o n ly p e r t a i n s t o t h e a t te m p t t o b r i b e m e . N o t h i n g u p
u n t il t o d a y i n s p i t e o f m y s e l f m a k in g – b r in g in g i t t o th e a t te n ti o n o f
10

s e n i o r m a n a g e m e n t a t S A P S n o t h i n g , a b s o lu t e ly n o t h i n g h a s h a p p e n e d .
H e is s t il l i n th e s a m e p o s i t io n , s t il l d o i n g t h e s a m e w o r k a n d t h a t t o m e
is o f r e a l c o n c e r n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : J u s t t o r e fr e s h o n e ’s m e m o r y. W h a t w a s t h e y e a r o f
t h e b r i b e r y c a s e a g a in ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir i t w a s i n 2 0 11 ,
A u g u s t 2 0 11 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : S o f o r a b o u t e i g h t y e a r s o r s o n o d is c i p l i n a r y – w e l l
fr o m w h a t y o u s a y t h e r e w a s a n a t t e m p t t o t a k e d i s c i p li n a r y a c t io n a n d
h e o b t a i n e d a n in t e r d ic t a n d a f t e r t h a t a s f a r a s y o u k n o w n o t h i n g

20

happened?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

N o th i n g h a p p e n e d

C h a ir a n d o v e r a n d a b o v e t h a t w h il e I w a s s t il l i n o ff ic e .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I r e c e i v e d in f o r m a ti o n
a n d I c a n v a s s e d t h i s w it h th e t h e n h e a d o f t h e H a w k s .

Page 8 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL B OOYSEN :

A General Anwa

D r a m a t.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : C a n …
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I h a d in f o r m a t io n t h a t
I w i ll b e s u s p e n d e d o n a s p e c i fi c d a t e a n d t h a t C o l o n e l N a v i n M a d h o e
h a d n o w b e e n s u s p e n d e d f o r th e a tt e m p t t o b r i b e m e w o u l d r e t u r n o n a
c e r t a i n d a te . A n d th o s e t w o d a te s I c o n v e y e d t o G e n e r a l D r a m a t a n d l o
a n d b e h o l d o n t h e d a y t h a t I w a s to l d t h a t …
10

CHAIRPERSON : He would be…
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Madhoe had returned
b a c k to w o r k – h e r e t u r n e d b a c k t o o ff ic e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :

H e w a s te m p o r a r il y

r e m o v e d t o a n o t h e r o ffi c e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B u t w i th in a m o n t h o r
t w o h e is p l a c e d b a c k in t o h is p o s i ti o n a n d o n th e e x a c t s a m e d a t e th a t
t h e p r e d ic t io n w a s a n d t h o s e p r e d i c ti o n s c a m e fr o m n o n e o th e r t h a n t h e
20

m a in s u s p e c t i n th e i n v e s t ig a t io n To s h a n P a n d a y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

He predicted the

e x a c t d a y o n w h ic h N a v i n M a d h o e w o u l d r e tu r n b a c k t o o ff ic e a n d th e
d a y t h a t I w o u ld r e c e iv e m y s u s p e n s i o n n o ti c e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

Page 9 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

C h a ir i f I m a y ?

I h u m b ly

a p o lo g i s e f o r th e i n t e r r u p t io n .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

But should General Booysen

p e r h a p s b e s w o r n i n a g a i n o r is i t n o t n e c e s s a r y ?
C H A I R P E R S O N : N o i t i s t h e s a m e o a th c o n ti n u o u s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th a n k y o u .
CHAIRPERSON :

B e c a u s e h e h a d n o t f in is h e d h is e v id e n c e .

I t is

d i ff e r e n t if h e h a s fi n i s h e d a n d h e c o m e s b a c k f o r c r o s s - e x a m i n a ti o n .
10

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th a n k y o u C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : S o y o u s a y y o u h a d r a is e d t h e i s s u e w i th t h e – i n a n y
e v e n t j u s t t o b e o n t h e s a f e s id e – in a n y e v e n t y o u c o n fi r m th a t y o u
a r e s ti ll u n d e r o a t h th a t y o u h a d t o o k p r e v io u s ly a n d y o u w il l c o n ti n u e
t o g iv e y o u r e v id e n c e u n d e r t h e s a m e o a th ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I a c c e p t th a t I a m s t il l
u n d e r o a t h C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s , y e s t h a n k y o u .

Now in terms of the people at

S A P S o r p e o p l e w it h in w h a t e v e r s tr u c tu r e i n te r n a l ly to w h o m y o u h a d
r e p o r t e d t h i s f o r p u r p o s e s o f a n y d is c i p l i n a r y a c ti o n a r e y o u a b le to s a y
20

t h is is t o w h o m I a d d r e s s e d c o r r e s p o n d e n c e o r s p o k e – t h i s is w h o I
s p o k e t o a n d t h e s e w o u ld b e t h e p e o p l e w h o w o u l d h a v e t a k e n
d e c is i o n s o r is th a t s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u a r e n o t a b le a t th is s ta g e t o
in d i c a t e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :
la t e l a s t y e a r.

Page 10 of 258

C h a ir a s r e c e n t a s

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

I was phoned by a

C o l o n e l i n K w a Z u l u N a ta l w h o w a s d e s p e r a te to t a lk t o s o m e o n e a n d
t h a t w a s a C o lo n e l M y b u r g h .

C o lo n e l M y b u r g h h a d a l s o r e p o r t e d

c o r r u p ti o n e m a n a t i n g fr o m t h e o ffi c e o f C o l o n e l N a v i n M a d h o e . T h e r e
w a s a p r o tr a c t e d i n v e s ti g a t i o n a n d t h e n e t t r e s u l t o f t h a t i n v e s ti g a ti o n
w a s th a t t h e y w e r e g o i n g t o c h a r g e t h e w h i s t l e - b l o w e r, C o lo n e l
M y b u r g h . S o I f le w to D u r b a n a n d I h a d a c o n v e r s a ti o n w it h t h e A c t i n g
P r o v i n c ia l C o m m i s s i o n e r G e n e r a l M k h w a n a z i a n d h e s t o p p e d t h a t
10

process.

B u t d u r i n g th a t d is c u s s i o n I d i d d e ta il t o h i m t h e f a c t t h a t

N a v i n M a d h o e h a d m a n a g e d t o o b t a i n a n in t e r d ic t f o r a d is c i p l in a r y
h e a r in g p e r t a in in g t o t h e a t t e m p te d b r i b e r y b u t t h a t d o e s n o t p r e c l u d e
t h e m f r o m c o n ti n u i n g w it h t h e d is c i p li n a r y h e a r i n g a g a i n s t h i m f o r t h e
m a in c h a r g e t h e R 6 0 m il li o n c o r r u p ti o n a n d w h ic h i s fu ll y i m p li c a t e d .
A n d th a t – th e s a m e a p p li e s t o t h e c a p t a i n th a t w o r k s w i t h h i m C a p ta i n
N a r a in P r a s a d .
CHAIRPERSON :

H’m, h’m.

And you do not know what happened

u l ti m a t e ly w i th th a t i n te r d ic t b e c a u s e a n i n te r d ic t w il l n o r m a l ly a n d I
a s s u m e i t w a s ju s t a t e m p o r a r y i n t e r d ic t a n d y o u – f r o m w h a t y o u h a v e
20

said there was some procedural problem or something. It – you do not
know whether it was discharged or fell away at some stage or whether
it is s ti ll in e x is te n c e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
happens in SAPS.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.

Page 11 of 258

C h a i r w h a t ty p i c a ll y

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I f th e y w a n t t o g e t r i d
o f y o u th e y f o l lo w t h e p r o c e d u r e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

Or they attempt to

f o ll o w t h e p r o c e d u r e . A n d I a m s p e c u la t in g n o w. T h e w a y th e y tr e a t e d
t h e d is c i p l in a r y h e a r in g o f M a d h o e i t w a s a p a p e r e x e r c is e .

And

o b v i o u s l y t h a t b e i n g a p a p e r e x e r c is e t h e y w o u l d r e m a n d i t a n d th e n
t h e y w o u l d s t o p i t a n d e v e n t u a l ly w h e n t h e y w a n t e d to p r o c e e d w i th t h e
m a t t e r ju s t b e f o r e I w a s g o i n g t o g i v e e v i d e n c e h e w e n t t o t h e l a b o u r
10

c o u r t a n d a p p li e d f o r a n i n t e r d ic t w h i c h w a s g r a n t e d . I t h in k i t w a s a
fi n a l o r d e r a n d b e c a u s e t h e p o lic e h a d p r o c r a s t in a t e d w i t h th e
p r o c e e d i n g s . A n d q u it e r i g h tly s o C h a i r I m e a n w h a t is g o o d f o r t h e
g o o s e i s g o o d f o r t h e g a n d e r s o I d o n o t h a v e a p r o b le m w i t h t h a t
in t e r d ic t . T h e p o li c e d id n o t f o ll o w t h e n e c e s s a r y – th e i r o w n r u l e s b u t
t h e p r o b l e m th a t I d o h a v e i s i n t h e o t h e r m a t t e r s .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

A b s o l u t e l y n o th i n g

was done.
C H A I R P E R S O N : W e l l i n a n y e v e n t i t s e e m s t o m e th a t c e r t a i n ly w i t h i n
20

S A P S o r t h e H a w k s s o m e b o d y s h o u l d lo o k i n to th a t is s u e t h o r o u g h l y
a n d s e e w h o – w h a t t h e – w h y t h e r e s e e m s t o b e n o th i n g th a t h a s
h a p p e n e d i n r e g a r d t o th e o th e r m a t t e r s . B u t a l s o t o l o o k a t th e – a t
t h e o n e r e l a ti n g t o t h e i n te r d ic t b e c a u s e o b v i o u s ly I h a v e n o k n o w l e d g e
o f t h e in t e r d i c t t h a t y o u t a lk a b o u t b u t c o u r ts w o u l d n o t l ig h tl y s a y
s o m e b o d y m u s t n o t b e d i s c i p li n e d a t a ll w h e n t h e r e s e e m s to b e

Page 12 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
e v i d e n c e y o u k n o w. Th e y m i g h t s a y f o l lo w u p w i t h t h e r i g h t p r o c e d u r e i f
y o u w a n t t o d is c i p l in e y o u k n o w.

So somebody might need to look –

lo o k a t t h a t c a r e fu lly. W h o w o u l d b e t h e r ig h t p e r s o n ? W o u l d i t b e t h e
head of the Hawks?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : No.
CHAIRPERSON :

To

u l ti m a t e ly

who

w o u ld

have

the

u l ti m a t e

r e s p o n s i b i li ty t o c h e c k t h e s e t h i n g s a n d s e e i f s o m e b o d y i s n o t d o i n g
t h e ir j o b .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir i t w o u ld b e th e
10

p r o v i n c i a l h e a d f o r s u p p o r t s e r v ic e s in K w a Zu l u N a ta l .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h i c h I r e c a ll is M a j o r
General Ngembe.
C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t t h e y w o u l d a l l fa ll u n d e r t h e h e a d o f t h e n a ti o n a l
h e a d o f t h e H a w k s o r n o t?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

No Chair because

Madhoe does no t work …
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h h e is w i t h …
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
20

H e is n o t w i t h t h e

Hawks.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h h e is w i t h …
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e is w i t h t h e a s th e y
say SAPS.
CHAIRPERSON :

SAPS – with SAPS ja.

B u t u l ti m a t e ly th e n a t i o n a l

c o m m i s s io n e r o f S A P S w o u l d b e a b l e t o t a lk t o w h o e v e r a t p r o v i n c ia l

Page 13 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
le v e l t h a t n e e d s t o i n v e s t ig a te a n d s e e w h a t is h a p p e n in g .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I f it i s b r o u g h t to h is
a tt e n ti o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : I f i t is b r o u g h t t o h is a t t e n ti o n .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I d o n o t – C h a ir I d o
n o t t h i n k th e c u r r e n t n a ti o n a l c o m m is s i o n e r i s a w a r e b u t …
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR

GENERAL

JOHAN

WESSEL

BOOYSEN :

Pr o v i n c i a l

m a n a g e m e n t i n K w a Z u lu N a t a l.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I s b lis s fu ll y a w a r e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d t h e f a c t th a t h e is
s t il l i n t h e s a m e p o s t th e y d i d n o t e v e n t h i n k i t p r u d e n t …
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : To a t l e a s t p u t h i m i n
a d i ffe r e n t d e p a r t m e n t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESS EL BOO YSEN :

20

Where there can be

n o a t te m p t s t o c o m m i t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s . I th i n k t h e l e g a l t e a m s h o u ld w h il e w e a r e
b u s y w i t h t h e i n v e s ti g a ti o n m a y b e t h r o u g h t h e a c t in g s e c r e t a r y ju s t
b r i n g t h e m a t te r to t h e a t te n ti o n o f th e n a ti o n a l c o m m i s s io n e r o f S A P S
t o s a y t h a t M a j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n r a is e d th is c o n c e r n a b o u t a m a t te r
t h a t h e is g iv in g e v i d e n c e a b o u t fo r t h e n a ti o n a l c o m m i s s i o n e r t o l o o k

Page 14 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
in t o i t a n d – a n d s e e w h e t h e r t h e r e is n o t s o m e t h i n g t h a t is h a p p e n e d
t h a t s h o u ld n o t b e h a p p e n i n g . A n d I s u r e h e w o u ld le t th e c o m m i s s io n
k n o w w h a t w a s fo u n d o u t . T h a n k y o u M a jo r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a n k y o u C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : F o r r a i s i n g t h e is s u e . T h a n k y o u .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

Sorry if we could then resume

w h e r e w e le f t o ff a n d t h a t is th e n o n p a g e 2 3 o f Ex h ib i t Z A .
C H A I R P E R S O N : I m u s t ju s t c h e c k M s S e p t e m b e r y o u h a v e a s o ft v o ic e
le t m e c h e c k if t h e y c a n h e a r y o u a t t h e b a c k ? A r e y o u a b l e t o h e a r M s
10

S e p te m b e r a t th e b a c k ?

T h e y s a y I t h i n k t h e y w is h y o u t o r a i s e y o u r

voice a bit.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I w ill s p e a k a li t tl e l o u d e r.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

In that case let us resume at

page 23 of Exhibit ZA.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : G e n e r a l B o o y s e n fo ll o w i n g t h e
e v i d e n c e t h a t y o u g a v e i n r e l a ti o n t o t h e To s h a n P a n d a y i n v e s t ig a ti o n
y o u t h e n a d d r e s s e d tw o a d d i ti o n a l in v e s t i g a t io n s o n e w h ic h y o u h a v e
20

t e r m e d t o b e th e A m i g o s In v e s t i g a t io n a n d th e o t h e r w h ic h w a s t h e
lo o ti n g o f th e s e c r e t s e r v ic e a c c o u n t.

Yo u t h e n t u r n e d to th e C a to

M a n o r in v e s ti g a t io n a n d w h e n l a s t t h is m a t t e r w a s h e a r d y o u h a d
s k e tc h e d a f a c t u a l b a c k g r o u n d i n r e l a ti o n t o th e in v e s ti g a t io n . To th is
e n d c a n I a s k y o u to t u r n t o E x h i b i t Z G w h ic h is t h e n e w b u n d l e t h a t
h a s b e e n p l a c e d b e fo r e t h e c o m m i s s i o n ? S o fr o m y o u r m a i n a ffi d a v i t a t

Page 15 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
p a g e 2 3 y o u d e a l w it h t h e C a t o M a n o r i n v e s ti g a ti o n v e r y b r ie f ly a n d
t h a t is b u t in tw o p a r a g r a p h s w h i c h i s a t p a g e 7 5 a n d 7 6 .

S in c e o u r

la s t h e a r i n g .
CHAIRPERSON : Paragraphs 75 and 76 hey?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : C o r r e c t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : I think you said page?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O o p s . P a r a g r a p h
CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : S o r r y p a r a g r a p h 7 5 a n d 7 6 .
10

CHAIRPERSON : 75 and 76.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O n p a g e 2 3 .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : S i n c e t h e la s t h e a r i n g a r e p o r t
h a s b e e n p u b li c is e d w h i c h r e la t e s t o t h e i n q u ir y in t e r m s o f S e c t io n
1 2 ( 6 ) o f th e N a t i o n a l P r o s e c u ti n g A u t h o r it y A c t a n d t h e u n a b r id g e d
v e r s i o n o f t h a t r e p o r t is c o n t a i n e d a s E x h i b i t Z G . T h is p a r t ic u l a r r e p o r t
r e l a t e s to t h e c o m m i s s io n w h ic h w a s c h a ir e d b y J u s t ic e M o k g o r o .
C H A I R P E R S O N : I t h i n k i t is c a l le d In q u ir y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n q u ir y.

20

C H A I R P E R S O N : I d o n o t t h i n k i t is a c o m m is s i o n .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th a n k y o u C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

I t i s a n i n q u ir y i n t e r m s o f t h e N a t i o n a l Pr o s e c u t in g

A u t h o r i ty Ac t .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th a n k y o u .
CHAIRPERSON :

A c o m m i s s i o n w il l b e a c o m m i s s i o n u n d e r t h e

Page 16 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
Commissions Act of 1947.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A p o l o g i e s fo r m y e r r o r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. J a .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h is r e p o r t – th is r e p o r t r e l a t e d
t o th e in q u i r y w h ic h w a s c h a i r e d b y J u s ti c e M o k g o r o .

For ease of

r e fe r e n c e w e w i ll r e fe r t o th e r e p o r t a s T h e M o k g o r o R e p o r t . H a v e y o u
considered this report General Booysen?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I h a v e p e r u s e d
it m o r e s p e c if ic a l ly i n t h e p a s s a g e s t h a t d e a ls w it h th e B o o y s e n m a t te r.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s t h a n k y o u .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d i t is c o r r e c t t h a t y o u g a v e
e v i d e n c e a t th is i n q u ir y ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n d e e d C h a ir.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

J u s t to c l a r i f y t h e c o n t e x t o f

t h is p a r ti c u l a r r e p o r t i f I a s k y o u t o tu r n t o p a g e 1 4 . A t p a r a g r a p h 1 2 i t
reads – at paragraph 12 it reads:
“That the scope of the terms of reference was to look
in t o t h e fi t n e s s a n d p r o p r i e ty o f b o th J ib a b e in g
A d v o c a t e N o m g c o b o J i b a a n d M r w e b i b e in g A d v o c a te
20

L a w r e n c e M r w e b i t o h o l d o ff ic e i n t h e ir r e s p e c t iv e
c a p a c i t ie s .

I n r e l a ti o n to J i b a a n d a t t h e p a n e ls ’

d is c r e ti o n th e i n q u ir y w a s to c o n s i d e r e v i d e n c e
a r i s i n g fr o m t h e c a s e s r e f e r r e d t o in th e t e r m s o f
r e fe r e n c e .”
I t is c o r r e c t t h a t t h e m a t t e r w h ic h i s r e f e r r e d t o in th is r e p o r t a s th e

Page 17 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
B o o y s e n E v id e n c e is th e e v i d e n c e r e l a ti n g t o t h e r a c k e t e e r i n g c h a r g e s
r e l a t e d t o t h e C a t o M a n o r i n v e s t i g a t io n , is t h a t … ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s s o C h a ir.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

Thank you.

C h a ir w h il e w e

p l a c e t h is e n ti r e r e p o r t b e f o r e y o u a n d te n d e r i t a s e v id e n c e w e w il l n o t
d e a l w i th o r d e tr a c t fr o m t h e p a r ti c u l a r i t y o r d e t a i l i n t h e r e p o r t b u t
s i m p l y h i g h l i g h t c e r ta i n e v id e n c e r e le v a n t to th is w i t n e s s s o th is
w i t n e s s c a n th e n a u g m e n t s o m e e v i d e n c e t h a t w a s n o t n e c e s s a r il y
p l a c e d b e fo r e t h e in q u ir y.
10

CHAIRPERSON :

W e l l y o u p l a c e it b e fo r e m e a s n o t h i n g m o r e t h a n

s i m p l y a r e p o r t o f t h e M o k g o r o I n q u ir y is i t n o t ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u p l a c e i t f o r n o o t h e r p u r p o s e o t h e r t h a n t h a t i t is
a r e p o r t o f t h a t i n q u ir y ? W h a t w e m a k e o f it is a n o th e r m a t t e r.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : To t h e …
C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t t h a t is m y u n d e r s t a n d i n g .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I f I a m …
20

CHAIRPERSON :

S o I a m j u s t p o i n ti n g t h a t o u t b e c a u s e y o u s a i d y o u

put – place it before me as evidence.

S o I th i n k th a t m i g h t c a u s e

c o n fu s i o n . I t h in k y o u p l a c e i t b e f o r e m e fo r w h a t it is a r e p o r t o f th e
M o k g o r o I n q u ir y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A s i t p l e a s e s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON:

Ja.

If you place it for any purpose you can come

Page 18 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
b a c k a n d te ll m e w h a t th a t o t h e r p u r p o s e i s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

T h e n le t m e a s k G e n e r a l

B o o y s e n i n c o n s id e r in g t h e p a r ts o f t h is r e p o r t w h ic h r e l a t e s t o y o u d o
y o u h a v e a n y c o m m e n t o n th e a c c u r a c y o f t h e e v i d e n c e a s i t is
r e c o r d e d i n h e r e w h ic h y o u g a v e a t t h e in q u ir y ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir w i th r e g a r d s t o
w h e r e m y n a m e a p p e a r i n t h is r e p o r t it c o r r e la t e s w i th th e e v i d e n c e
10

t h a t I g a v e a t t h e M o k g o r o In q u i r y. T h e J u s t ic e M o k g o r o I n q u ir y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s t h a n k y o u .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y.
CHAIRPERSON :

S o t o t h e e x t e n t t h a t i t m i g h t s u m m a r is e o r i t m i g h t

p u r p o r t to s u m m a r is e t h e e v i d e n c e th a t y o u g a v e a t th a t i n q u ir y a s f a r
a s y o u a r e c o n c e r n e d i t c o r r e c t ly d o e s s o . I t c o r r e c tl y s u m m a r i s e s y o u r
evidence?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

T h a t i s m y c a s e Mr

C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a n k y o u . O k a y.
20

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

A n d a c c o r d i n g ly C h a ir t o t h a t

e x t e n t w e d o n o t i n te n d t o l e a d a l l th is e v i d e n c e a g a in .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : B u t r a t h e r j u s t a u g m e n t c e r ta in
a s p e c ts o f it t o t h e e x te n t n e c e s s a r y.
CHAIRPERSON : Well I have not – I have not read the report. I paged

Page 19 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h r o u g h . F r o m w h e r e to w h e r e d o e s t h e r e p o r t d e a l w i t h t h e i s s u e t h a t
M a jo r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n r e f e r s t o ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s I w i ll t a k e – I w i ll t a k e u s
t h r o u g h t h e r e le v a n t e x c e r p ts .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : W i t h y o u r le a v e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a w e l l i f y o u fi r s t t e ll m e w h e r e I f in d i t ?
A D V O C AT E

VERUSHKA

SEPTEMBER :

No

p r o b le m .

The

f ir s t

r e fe r e n c e o f t h e p e r t i n e n t c a s e r e la t i n g t o G e n e r a l B o o y s e n is a t p a g e
10

58.

I t i s in f a c t a s y n o p s i s o f t h e c a s e o f B o o y s e n v e r s u s A c t i n g

N a t io n a l

D ir e c t o r

of

P u b l ic

Pr o s e c u ti o n s

and

others

2014

2ALL

S A 3 1 9 K Z D w h ic h w a s d e l iv e r e d o n th e 2 6 F e b r u a r y 2 0 1 4 b y J u s t ic e
Gorven.
CHAIRPERSON :

I s t h i s n o t a s u m m a r y o f th e ju d g m e n t a s J u s t ic e

M o k g o r o a n d h e r [i n d is t in c t] u n d e r s t o o d t h e j u d g m e n t ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

C o r r e c t C h a ir.

That very

ju d g m e n t a p p e a r s …
C H A I R P E R S O N : B e c a u s e th a t d o e s n o t n e e d M a jo r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ’s
c o n fir m a t io n a s c o r r e c t ?
20

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o t a t a ll . I a m j u s t p o i n ti n g i t
o u t t h a t t h a t i s o n e o f th e a s p e c t s .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n f a c t …
C H A I R P E R S O N : I w a n t t o b e a b l e – I w a n t y o u t o i d e n ti fy t h e p a r t o f
t h e r e p o r t w h ic h M a j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n h a s t a lk e d a b o u t a s a c o r r e c t

Page 20 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
s u m m a r y o f t h e e v id e n c e h e g a v e a t t h a t in q u ir y. T h a t is w h a t I w a n t
y o u t o i d e n t i fy ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o p r o b l e m C h a ir. I f w e g o t o
page 97 of the same Exhibit.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a t d e a ls p a r t ic u l a r l y w i th th e
B o o y s e n c a s e . I t r e l a te s t o p a g e s 9 7 t o 1 4 3 w h ic h s ta r t s a t p a r a g r a p h
2 9 5 to 4 5 3 . In p a r ti c u la r t o G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ’s e v id e n c e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : I s e e a t p a g e 1 0 6 w h e r e i t s a y s B o o y s e n ’s v e r s i o n is
10

t h a t th e o n e ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u t a l k a b o u t ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : A s B o o y s e n ’s e v i d e n c e ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : I s t h a t w h a t y o u a r e t a lk i n g a b o u t ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

S o w h ic h p a r t ?

I s i t t h is p a r t t h a t y o u a n d h e a r e

t a lk in g a b o u t w h e n y o u s a y is a c o r r e c t s u m m a r y o f h is e v i d e n c e b e f o r e
20

t h a t i n q u ir y ? I t is i m p o r t a n t t o i d e n t i fy th a t p a r t .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

C h a ir p e r h a p s I c a n

a s s is t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :
p a g e 9 6 to p a g e 1 4 3 .

Page 21 of 258

I a m r e f e r r in g fr o m

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : 96 to page 143?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

I s th a t t h e s a m e t h a t y o u h a v e i n m i n d w h e n y o u

a s k e d h i m t h a t q u e s t io n ? I s t h a t t h e s a m e ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o t p a r t ic u l a r l y.
CHAIRPERSON:

N o t p a r ti c u l a r l y b u t th a t is w h a t h e is t a lk i n g a b o u t

that we know now?

W h ic h o n e a r e y o u t a lk i n g a b o u t w h e n y o u w e r e

t a lk in g h i m t h e q u e s ti o n ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :
10

G e n e r a l B o o y s e n is i n d e e d

c o r r e c t t o th e e x te n t t h a t e v id e n c e r e l a ti n g t o h is m a t t e r is c o n t a i n e d in
– f r o m p a g e – h e ll o .
CHAIRPERSON : Oh.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I d o n o t k n o w w h a t h a p p e n e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : I t l o o k s lik e t h e –
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : H e ll o .
C H A I R P E R S O N : I m i g h t h a v e t o t a k e o r a r e w e b a c k ? J a i t l o o k s l ik e
we are back.

O k a y j u s t c o n ti n u e o r – t h e r e i s g o e s a g a i n .

Okay it

lo o k s l ik e w e a r e b a c k . O k a y p a g e s 9 6 to – ju s t r e p e a t M a jo r G e n e r a l
Booysen?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

C h a ir i t is 9 6 t o 1 4 3

b u t in a d d i ti o n t o t h a t …
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESS EL BOOYS EN :
s e c t io n s …
C H A I R P E R S O N : O f t h e r e p o r t.

Page 22 of 258

There are also

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

I n t h e l a t te r p a r t o f

t h e r e p o r t b y – a t t h e fi n d i n g s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :

W h i c h I h i g h li g h t e d

a n d w h ic h I …
C H A I R P E R S O N : W h ic h y o u g o a lo n g w i th ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :

T h a t is i n d e e d s o

C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s w e – t h e y f a l l o u t s i d e o f t h e p a g e s y o u h a v e j u s t
10

m e n ti o n e d ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON:

D o y o u w a n t t o m e n t io n w h e r e t h e y a r e i f y o u d o

k n o w ? B u t i f y o u d o n o t k n o w s h e w i ll h e lp u s l a te r o n . I th o u g h t y o u
might have it at hand.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a i r u n fo r t u n a t e l y i t
is o n m y p h o n e .
CHAIRPERSON : Oh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

Because I numbered

them on my phone.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : J a o k a y la t e r o n t h a t c a n b e d o n e .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I f I c o u l d p e r h a p s j u s t c l a r i fy.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Fr o m 9 6 t o 1 4 3 it is a c o n s o li d a ti o n

Page 23 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
o f a ll th e e v i d e n c e i n r e la t io n t o t h e B o o y s e n m a t t e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : To t h e e x t e n t t h a t it c o n s o l id a t e s th e
e v i d e n c e . T h e r e a r e p a r ts o f B o o y s e n ’s e v id e n c e w h ic h is i n c l u d e d a t
d i ff e r e n t in t e r v a l s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h e r e is a ls o a d e d ic a t e d s e c t io n .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
10

W h ic h i s a t t h e p a g e C h a ir d ir e c t e d

u s to w h ic h i s p a g e 1 0 6 .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d t h a t i s s p e c i fi c a ll y t o h is v e r s i o n .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

S o m y u n d e r s t a n d in g i s t h a t w h e n

G e n e r a l B o o y s e n c o n s i d e r e d th e s e p a r a g r a p h s – a n d I a m h a p p y fo r
h i m t o c o n f ir m t h i s t o .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

H e a g r e e s th a t w h e r e a n y e v i d e n c e

t h a t h e p l a c e d b e f o r e t h e e n q u ir y.
20

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Is r e c o r d e d i n th e r e p o r t .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n t h e b i g g e r c o n t e x t o f t h e e v id e n c e
a s c o n s o l id a te d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.

Page 24 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : That evidence is in fact accurate.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Is a c c u r a t e ?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : Recorded.
C H A I R P E R S O N : R e fl e c t e d ?
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a i r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. M a jo r G e n e r a l t h a t i s w h a t y o u s a y t h a t t o t h e
e x t e n t t h a t t h e r e p o r t r e f e r s to e v i d e n c e t h a t y o u g a v e in t h e M o k g o r o
I n q u i r y. I t r e fl e c ts y o u r e v i d e n c e c o r r e c t ly ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I c o n fir m t h a t C h a ir.
10

CHAIRPERSON :

O k a y.

Th a n k y o u .

T h e n l a t e r o n y o u c a n i d e n t if y

m a y b e p r e p a r e a p ie c e o f p a p e r t h a t i d e n t i fi e s w h e r e o n e c a n fi n d a ll o f
t h o s e p a r ts .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : As i t.
CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n th a t i n s t a n c e c a n w e t h e n s t a r t o ff
a t p a g e 9 6 ? I t is c o r r e c t t h a t t h e p u r p o s e o f t h e e v i d e n c e in r e la t io n to
t h e o r r a th e r p a r a g r a p h 9 4 r e c o r d s t h a t t h is p a r t ic u l a r s e c ti o n w h ic h
d e a ls w i t h y o u r m a t te r h o n e s i n o n n e w a s p e c ts o f t h e B o o y s e n m a t te r.
I f I m a y r e f e r t o i t a s s u c h a n d d e a ls w i t h t h e is s u e o f r a c k e te e r in g
20

a u t h o r i s a t io n s .

T h e p u r p o s e o f e v id e n c e is n o t t o e v a lu a t e o r

d e t e r m i n e t h e g u il t o r i n n o c e n c e o f B o o y s e n i n r e l a ti o n to t h e c r i m i n a l
c h a r g e s y o u a r e c u r r e n t ly fa c i n g b u t r a th e r t o c o n s i d e r w i t h r e f e r e n c e
t o t h e t e r m s o f r e f e r e n c e v is - à - v is t h e l a w f u l n e s s o f th e d e c is io n ta k e n
b y J i b a to a u t h o r is e t h e p r o s e c u ti o n o f B o o y s e n fo r r a c k e t e e r in g ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I c o n fir m t h a t C h a ir.

Page 25 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

O k a y.

I n o t h e r w o r d s a ll f a c ts th a t

are then contained in here augment paragraphs 75 and 76 of your
a ffi d a v i t o n p a g e 2 3 ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : ( N o a u d ib le r e p l y ) .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I f w e c o u l d th e n l o o k a t p a g e 9 7 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : W e l l d i d y o u n o t w a n t h i m t o c o n f ir m t h a t ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t d o e s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I c o n fir m t h a t C h a ir.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, th a n k y o u .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

A t p a g e 9 7 p a r a g r a p h 2 9 6 i t is

r e c o r d e d t h a t th e e v i d e n c e b e fo r e t h e in q u ir y.
CHAIRPERSON :

W e ll s i n c e w e a r e d e a l in g w i t h tw o e x h i b i t s a t t h e

s a m e t i m e ju s t r e p e a t th a t y o u a r e n o w – y o u a r e r e fe r r i n g t o E X H I B I T
ZG.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : Thank you.
C H A I R P E R S O N : S o t h a t t h e r e is n o c o n f u s i o n a s t o w h i c h o n e o f t h e
t w o e x h i b i t s w e a r e d e a li n g w it h n o w.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
20

Thank you.

EXHIBIT ZG page 97

p a r a g r a p h 2 9 6 . It is s t a te d th a t :
“ T h e e v i d e n c e b e f o r e th e in q u ir y r e l a t e s t o t h e
f o ll o w i n g a n d i t is f o u r f o l d .
a u t h o r i s a t io n
racketeering.

by

J ib a

to

T h e fi r s t i s t h e

charge

Booysen

w i th

T h e s e c o n d is t h e la w f u l n e s s a n d

p r o p r i e t a r y o f J ib a ’s c o n d u c t i n o r d e r i n g th a t th e

Page 26 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
prosecution of Booysen and others in the Cato
M a n o r U n i t b e d o n e b y a t e a m o f p r o s e c u t o r s fr o m
outside KZN.
thereof

T h e t h ir d i s t h e i n v o l v e m e n t o r l a c k

o f A d v o c a t e S i m p h i w e M l o ts h w a

to g e t h e r

w i t h th e i n s tr u c ti o n s t o h i m o s te n s ib ly e it h e r a t t h e
behest of Jiba or at the very least with the
k n o w l e d g e a n d c o n s e n t t o s ig n a n i n d i c t m e n t in t h e
absence

of

M l o ts h w a ’s
10

s u p p o r t in g
removal

as

e v id e n c e
A c ti n g

and

DPP

and

l a s t ly
the

a p p o i n t m e n t o f A d v o c a t e M o i p o n e N o k o i n h is s t e a d
is d e a l t w i t h . ”
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I c o n fir m t h a t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Fr o m p a g e 9 8 o f th e s a m e e x h i b i t a t
C l a u s e 5 .2 . 1 .2 th e p o w e r s o f t h e D P P t o p r o s e c u te o u ts i d e o f th e i r
ju r is d i c t i o n is a d d r e s s e d i n p a r t ic u l a r fr o m p a r a g r a p h s 2 9 7 t o p a r a g r a p h
303 on page 102.
C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y. I a m c o n f u s e d . Yo u a r e r e f e r r in g t o p a g e
98 of EXHIBIT ZG?

20

A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : C o r r e c t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

T h e b e s t p a r t o f t h a t p a g e c o n s i s t s o f a q u o t a ti o n

fr o m S e c t io n 1 7 9 o f t h e C o n s ti t u ti o n . Is i t n o t ?
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a i r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Is th a t w h a t y o u a r e r e f e r r i n g t o ?
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s .

Page 27 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : O r h a v e I m is s e d s o m e th in g ?
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : M y s u b m is s i o n is t h a t t h e r e c o r d a l in
r e l a ti o n t o t h e c o n s i d e r a t io n s o f t h e D P P t o p r o s e c u te o u t s i d e o f t h e ir
ju r is d i c t i o n w h i c h G e n e r a l B o o y s e n n e e d n o t c o m m e n t o n i s d e a l t w i t h
in p a r a g r a p h s 2 9 7 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : To 3 0 3 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
10

Th e o ff e n c e – w e a r e n o w o n p a g e

1 0 2 – w h ic h d e a ls s p e c i fic a lly w i th t h e o ff e n c e o f r a c k e t e e r i n g a n d t h e
ju d g m e n t o f G o r v e n J , o k a y a n d s o t o ju s t f o r t h e r e c o r d th e o ff e n c e o f
r a c k e t e e r i n g i s d e a l t w i t h o n ly i n t w o p a r a g r a p h s w h ic h is 3 0 4 a n d 3 0 5 .
W h e n o n e th e n l o o k s to p a g e 1 0 3 i f I c a n t a k e y o u to C l a u s e 5 .2 . 1 . 4 i t
t a lk s a b o u t t h e p r o c e s s o f e v a l u a t i o n o f r a c k e t e e r i n g c h a r g e s w it h in th e
N PA .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Is th a t t h e p a r a g r a p h o f t h e r e p o r t 5 . 2 . 1 . 4 ?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

I t is th e – i t a p p e a r s to b e a s u b

s e c t io n – a s u b s e c ti o n . J u s t a b o v e p a r a g r a p h 3 0 6 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , o k a y. Ye s .
20

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

G e n e r a l B o o y s e n y o u h a v e g iv e n

e v i d e n c e th a t y o u h a v e e x te n s iv e k n o w l e d g e i n r e l a ti o n t o r a c k e t e e r i n g
a n d p r o c e s s . Is t h a t c o r r e c t?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Do you have any comments in

r e l a ti o n t o t h e p r o c e s s o f e v a l u a t in g r a c k e t e e r i n g c h a r g e s w i t h i n th e

Page 28 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
N PA b a s e d o n y o u r e x p e r i e n c e in t h e s e r v i c e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Chair I have – I have

r e a d t h is p a s s a g e fr o m t h e i n q u i r y. I c a n c o n fir m t h a t t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t
t h a t w a s le d a t th e i n q u ir y - n o t b y my s e l f .

It was a statement by

A d v o c a t e M a m a b o l o . I c o n f ir m t h e p r o c e d u r e t h a t h e d e s c r ib e s i n h is
a ffi d a v i t . In m y e x p e r i e n c e I w a s s u r p r i s e d to s e e t h a t t h is p r o c e d u r e
w a s n o t f o l l o w e d i n – in t h e B o o y s e n m a t t e r. A s h e a d o f t h e H a w k s i n
K Z N t h e p r o c e d u r e – a n d I a m g o i n g t o tr y a n d u s e a n a n a lo g y o f a
n a r c o t ic s i n v e s ti g a t i o n .
10

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th e

i n v e s ti g a to r s

w o u ld s ta r t a p r o je c t o n n a r c o tic s . O n c e i t s t a r ts t o lo o k t h a t i t c o u ld –
t h e r e c o u l d b e a p o s s i b le c a s e o f r a c k e t e e r in g – I j u s t w a n t t o a d d t h a t
in e a c h p r o v i n c e w e h a d a d v o c a te s w h ic h w e c a ll o r g a n i s e c r i m e
advocates who work with the Hawks.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h i s a d v o c a t e a n d th e
in v e s t i g a t o r s w o u ld t h e n a t r e g u la r m e e t i n g s t h a t w e h a v e i n t e r m s o f
p r o g r e s s i n p r o j e c ts w o u ld t h e n a l l u d e to t h e f a c t th a t th is m i g h t b e a
20

c a s e fo r r a c k e t e e r in g .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t a d v o c a t e w il l

t h e n b a s ic a l ly g i v e in s t r u c t i o n s t o th e i n v e s t ig a t o r.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A s t o w h a t e v id e n c e is

Page 29 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
r e q u ir e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : G u i d e t h e i n v e s ti g a t o r s ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Once

they

are

s a ti s f i e d fr o m m y o ffic e w e w i ll t h e n c o n t a c t t h e N a t i o n a l O ff ic e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A t t h e N a t i o n a l O ff ic e
p r e v i o u s ly I w o u ld – I a c t u a ll y d e a l t w it h A d v o c a t e M a m a b o l o a n d
10

A d v o c a t e J o h a n K r u g e r.

T h e y w e r e d e a l in g w it h t h e d e s k w h e r e

t h r o u g h t h e s e r a c k e t e e r i n g c a s e s h a d t o g o b e fo r e i t i s p r e s e n t e d t o
t h e N D P P.
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

F o r a u th o r is a ti o n i n

t e r m s o f th e Pr e v e n ti o n o f O r g a n is e d C r i m e A c t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

In my experience and

the Savoi or the Amigos case is a case in point.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Where

th e

in v e s t i g a t o r s w e r e s e n t b a c k s e v e r a l ti m e s t o – fr o m N a t i o n a l t o – t o
o b t a i n m o r e a n d r e le v a n t e v i d e n c e t o – t o e s t a b l is h t h e e n t e r p r i s e
number one.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 30 of 258

And number two to

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
li n k th e i n d i v i d u a ls to t h e e n t e r p r is e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

In d iv i d u a ll y

–

in d i v i d u a lly a n d c o ll e c t iv e ly.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S o – a n d i t is t r u e

w h a t M a m a b o l o s a y s - A d v o c a te M a m a b o lo s a y s in h i s s ta t e m e n t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e s a y s n o r m a l ly th a t
10

p r o c e d u r e w o u l d ta k e 1 4 d a y s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir i f y o u l o o k a t

t h e c o r r e s p o n d e n c e th e a p p l ic a ti o n t o p r o s e c u te m y s e l f a n d C a to M a n o r
f o r r a c k e t e e r i n g I t h i n k la n d e d o n t h e d e s k o f A d v o c a t e – I t h i n k is
A n t h o n y M o s i n g a t t h e ti m e a n d w i th in a d a y I th i n k it l a n d e d o n h i s
desk on the 15th.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d o n t h e 1 7 t h th e

racketeering charges were authorised.
20

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o i t is .
C H A I R P E R S O N : It w a s a n u n u s u a l ly s h o r t p e r i o d t h a t w a s t a k e n ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A b s o lu t e l y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir.

Page 31 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y. T h a n k y o u .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d t h a t i s i n f a c t c o n fir m e d o n p a g e
1 0 5 p a r a g r a p h 3 2 0 w h i c h r e a d s th a t t h e p r o c e s s w h i c h i s p r e c e d e d i n
p a r a g r a p h s 3 1 3 t o 3 1 9 w a s n o t fo ll o w e d i n t h e B o o y s e n m a t t e r a n d n o
e x p l a n a t io n h a s b e e n p r o v id e a s t o w h y t h e a c c e p t e d p r o c e s s w a s n o t
f o ll o w e d .
CHAIRPERSON :

Hm.

H a v e y o u s i n c e t h e ti m e t h a t i n s tr u c t io n w a s

is s u e d h a v e y o u e v e r b e e n t o l d o r g iv e n a n e x p l a n a t io n w h y i n y o u r
c a s e t h is t o o k s u c h a s h o r t t i m e e i t h e r t h r o u g h y o u r o w n i n q u ir i e s o r
10

t h r o u g h y o u r l a w y e r ’s in q u ir i n g o r t h r o u g h a n y a ffi d a v i t s t h a t m a y h a v e
b e e n f il e d a t s o m e s t a g e in c o u r t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : No Chair I did not.
CHAIRPERSON :

Yo u h a v e n e v e r – y o u h a v e n e v e r b e e n g iv e n a n y

e x p l a n a t io n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
m e n ti o n e d

it

in

my

founding

a ff id a v i t

Chair

I
or

might
in

any

have
of

my

s u p p l e m e n t a r y a ffi d a v it s i n t h e r e v i e w a p p l ic a t io n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

But I cannot recall

s p e c i f ic a l ly a s k in g w h y w a s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : My matter dealt with.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
space of one day as opposed to.

Page 32 of 258

S o q u ic k ly w i th i n a

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

O th e r c a s e s t h a t I

p e r s o n a l ly d e a lt w it h .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W i t h m y i n v e s t ig a t o r s .
T h a t n o r m a l ly t o o k l o n g e r t h a n t w o w e e k s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Advocate Mamabolo

s a y s 1 4 d a y s . I n s o m e i n s t a n c e i t a c t u a l ly to o k m u c h lo n g e r t h a n t h a t .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I

have

never

p e r t i n e n tl y a s k e d t h e q u e s t i o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And I have never

g iv e n – w e l l o b v io u s ly n e v e r g o t a n a n s w e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u s a y y o u d id p e r ti n e n tl y a s k t h e q u e s ti o n ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o , I d i d n o t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Oh, you did not, ja but you say you are not sure you
m a y o r m a y n o t h a v e r a is e d t h e is s u e in – in s o m e a ffi d a v i t ?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I suspect I

m ig h t

have.
C H A I R P E R S O N : R a is e d it ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir b u t .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 33 of 258

Over

the

last

s ix

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
years I made.
C H A I R P E R S O N : M a n y a ff i d a v i ts ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Six

f o u n d in g

a ffi d a v i ts , r e p ly i n g a ffi d a v i t s a n d s u p p l e m e n ta r y a ff id a v i ts .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

So

I

m ig h t

have

m e n ti o n e d i t . S o ( i n t e r v e n e s ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

W e l l i t w o u l d b e – i t m a y b e i m p o r t a n t t o e s ta b l is h

w h e t h e r i n a n y o f th e c o u r t a p p l ic a t i o n s t h a t y o u m a d e y o u r a is e t h e
10

is s u e a s p a r t o f c h a l le n g i n g w h a t e v e r y o u w e r e c h a l le n g i n g a n d t o s e e
w h e t h e r i t w a s d e a l t w i t h i n r e s p o n s e a n d i f s o b y w h o m a n d h o w. S o
t h a t m ig h t b e i m p o r ta n t t o e s t a b li s h . S o m a y b e i f y o u s til l h a v e a c c e s s
t o a ll y o u r a ff id a v i ts i t m i g h t h e l p t o j u s t c h e c k .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I w il l c h e c k .

I do

h a v e a l l th e a ff i d a v i ts .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , t h a n k y o u .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. I f w e c a n th e n tu r n
20

t o p a g e 1 0 6 a n d a t s u b p a r a g r a p h 5 . 2 .1 . 5 w h ic h i s t i tl e d “ B o o y s e n ’s
Ve r s io n ” t h a t i s i n f a c t t h e v e r s io n t h a t y o u te n d e r e d b e fo r e t h e i n q u ir y.
Is t h a t s o ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s s o C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

O k a y a n d i n p a r tic u l a r a t p a g e –

s a m e p a g e o f 1 0 6 p a r a g r a p h 2 3 2 - s o r r y 3 2 3 – th e l a s t l i n e r e a d s t h a t :

Page 34 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
“ Ma e m a is a D P P b a s e d i n t h e N o r t h W e s t P r o v i n c e
a n d w h o w a s a p p o in t e d t o t h e B o o y s e n M a t t e r b y
J ib a .”
Paragraph 324 reads:
“ T h a t a t t h e t i m e h e w a s c h a r g e d a c c o r d i n g to b o th
B o o y s e n a n d P a d a y a c h e e h e w a s w o r k in g o n a
p a r t ic u l a r ly s e n s i t iv e a n d h i g h p r o fi le c a s e n a m e l y
the

To s h a n P a n d a y

in v o lv e d
10

a

in v e s t i g a t io n

i n v e s t ig a ti o n

m u l t i m ill i o n
against

and

Rand

w e a l th y

t h is

case

c o r r u p ti o n
b u s in e s s m a n

To s h a n P a n d a y. H e is a ll e g e d t o h a v e h a d b u s i n e s s
li n k s to d ir e c t f a mi ly m e m b e r s o f Z u m a p r e s u m a b ly
f o r m e r P r e s i d e n t J a c o b Z u m a .”
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : 3 2 5 fi r s t s e n t e n c e s a y s :
“ T h e c a s e a ls o c o n c e r n e d p r o c u r e m e n t r e g u l a r i t ie s
w i t h i n th e S o u t h A fr ic a n P o lic e S e r v ic e s .”
A n d 3 2 6 c o n f ir m s :
“ T h a t t h e c h a r g e s a g a in s t b o t h M a d h o e a n d P a n d a y
20

w e r e s u b s e q u e n tly p r o v is i o n a ll y w i th d r a w n .”
A t p a r a g r a p h 3 2 7 m e n ti o n is m a d e o f a n a r tic l e t h a t a p p e a r e d in t h e
S u n d a y Ti m e s w h i c h s t a t e d t h a t :
“ C a t o M a n o r S V C S e c ti o n w a s a “ d e a t h s q u a d ” .
T h e a r ti c l e a ls o a c c u s e d B o o y s e n o f b e i n g c o m p lic i t
in t h e a l le g e d a c t io n s .”

Page 35 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
D o y o u h a v e a n y c o m m e n t s i n r e l a t i o n t o t h is p a r t ic u l a r a r ti c l e th a t
a p p e a r e d i n th e S u n d a y Ti m e s a n d t h e c o n te x t w i t h i n w h ic h t h a t - t h a t
occurred?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir b a s ic a l ly w h a t

h a p p e n e d is p h o t o g r a p h s w e r e u s e d b y th e S u n d a y Ti m e s a n d t h e t w o
jo u r n a li s ts

r e s p o n s ib l e

M z i li k a z i w a A fr ik a .

for

th a t

were

Stephan Hofstatter

and

N o w C h a ir w o u ld r e c a l l w h e n I t e s ti f ie d w h e n

C o l o n e l M a d h o e a t te m p t e d t o b r i b e m e w h e n I m e t h i m t h e f ir s t ti m e .
H e s h o w e d m e c e r t a i n p h o to g r a p h s .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d I d o n o t th i n k i t is
any

c o in c i d e n c e

th a t

those

very

same

p h o to g r a p h s

were

the

p h o t o g r a p h s th a t e v e n t u a ll y a p p e a r e d i n t h e S u n d a y Ti m e s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, h m .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

O n w h a t b a s is d o y o u d r a w t h e

c o n c l u s i o n t h a t it w a s n o t a c o i n c i d e n c e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
stands to reason.

W e ll C h a ir it i s – i t

I s a w t h e p h o t o g r a p h s w e ll n o t a ll o f t h e m .

Th e r e

w a s a w h o le f il e .
20

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : O n t h e – o n t h e l a p to p
that Navin Madhoe showed me.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
d is c u s s io n w i t h M r S t e p h a n H o fs t a t t e r i n m y o ffi c e .

Page 36 of 258

A n d I a ls o h a d a

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B e f o r e th e y p u b li s h e d
t h e a r ti c l e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d I s t ill t o o k is s u e

w i t h h i m a n d I s a id t o h i m l o o k th e p h o to g r a p h s t h a t y o u g u y s h a v e n o t
a l l t h o s e p e o p l e w e r e s h o t b y C a t o M a n o r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

And

the

one

–

p r o b a b ly t h e m o s t g r u e s o m e p ic t u r e w a s t h e o n e o f – I t h i n k – f o u r o r
fi v e p e o p l e d e c e a s e d o n th e b a c k o f a b a k k ie .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Where Cato Manor

h a d n o t b e e n i n v o l v e d . T h e y a c t u a l ly te n d e r e d t o – t o t h e s c e n e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

So I – I found it very

s u s p i c i o u s th a t th e v e r y s a m e p h o t o g r a p h s th a t w e r e u s e d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : To p u t p r e s s u r e o n m e
20

n o w a l l o f a s u d d e n a p p e a r i n t h e S u n d a y Ti m e s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And the reason why I
a m s a y i n g t h a t i s i t - i t l a t e r b e c a m e e v id e n t.
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 37 of 258

Th a t i t w a s i n d e e d a

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m e m b e r fr o m C r i m e I n t e l li g e n c e th a t c o ll u d e d w it h t h e S u n d a y Ti m e s .
There

w ere

a ls o

in t e r c e p te d

c o m m u n i c a ti o n s

b e tw e e n

Panday

–

To s h a n P a n d a y.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And

M z i li k a z i w a A fr ik a .
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Where

certain

p h o t o g r a p h s a n d C D d i s c s w e r e p r o m is e d w h ic h o b v io u s ly I – w h i c h I
10

w a s p r iv y t o .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : So it was clear to me
C h a ir a n d t h e r e w a s a l s o a s t a t e m e n t a n d I c a n n o t r e c a l l th e n a m e o f
t h e p e r s o n w h o a c tu a l ly s to l e t h e p h o to s .

C h a i r t h e s e p h o to g r a p h s

w e r e a c t u a ll y p h o t o g r a p h s a t C a t o M a n o r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

On

th e

computer

s y s te m w h ic h t h e y l o g g e d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Those

photographs

c a m e fr o m – f r o m t h e d o c k e t s – t h e c a s e d o c k e t s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d th e r e a s o n w h y

t h o s e p h o to g r a p h s w e r e k e p t i s t h e n u m b e r o f i n s t a n c e s w h e r e – w h e r e
r o b b e r ie s h a d b e e n c o m m i t t e d a n d i n c i d e n ta lly w e h a d o n e la s t n i g h t

Page 38 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
w h e r e a p e r s o n s h o t a p o lic e C o l o n e l a b o u t th r e e m o n t h s a g o in D u r b a n
and

this

very

same

person

was

Johannesburg during a robbery case.

shot

and

k il le d

la s t

night

in

S o t h a t is o n e o f t h e r e a s o n s

w h y t h e y k e e p t h o s e – th o s e a l b u ms .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

To id e n t i f y s u s p e c ts

who had been – who had become deceased.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

Who were involved in

o th e r c a s e s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

There is a statement

in o n e o f t h e d o c k e ts w h e r e t h e p e r s o n w h o s t o l e t h e s e p h o t o g r a p h s –
it w a s d o n e s o a t th e b e h e s t o f C o l o n e l M a d h o e w it h t h e in v o lv e m e n t o f
a n o t h e r C o l o n e l R a je n A i y e r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : So the only escapable
c o n c l u s i o n o n e c o u l d c o m e to is .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Those

photographs

w e r e s h o w n t o m e o n th e c o m p u te r t o p u t p r e s s u r e o n m e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h e r e is e v id e n c e th a t
t h e y w e r e s to l e n f o r a p a r tic u la r p u r p o s e a n d t h e n e x t m o m e n t.
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.

Page 39 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th e y a p p e a r i n th e

S u n d a y Ti m e s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o t h a t is w h y I c o m e
t o t h a t c o n c lu s i o n .
CHAIRPERSON :

H m , b u t ju s t t o g o b a c k t o y o u r e v i d e n c e e a r l ie r in

regard to those photographs, When Colonel Madhoe showed them to
y o u is m y u n d e r s ta n d i n g c o r r e c t t h a t y o u n e v e r a s k e d h i m w h y a r e y o u
showing me these photographs?
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir I a s k e d h i m

w h a t i t w a s a ll a b o u t.
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a ( i n te r v e n e s ) .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Because it did not

m a k e s e n s e t o m e . H e s h o w e d m e p h o t o g r a p h s w h ic h I c o u l d p r o b a b ly
g iv e – g iv e n h i m t h o u s a n d s o f .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d th e n h e j u s t s a i d
t o m e n o , n o h e c a n g e t s o m e m o r e o f th e s e .
CHAIRPERSON : So he did not – he did not answer what was the point
20

o f h i m s h o w in g y o u t h e s e p h o to g r a p h s ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
s a i d to h i m w e ll w h a t is th is a ll a b o u t .

W e l l I d i d C h a ir.

I

T h e s e a r e n o r m a l p o li c e

photographs.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 40 of 258

It is a t t h a t p o i n t

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
w h e r e h e c l o s e d t h e l a p to p a n d h e s a id n o h e c a n g e t m o r e o f t h e s e
p h o t o g r a p h s . I s a id t o h i m w e ll g e t m o r e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , b u t w h a t I a m s a y i n g is fr o m w h a t y o u a r e s a y in g
it s e e m s to m e t h a t h e d i d n o t g iv e y o u a n a n s w e r t o y o u r q u e s ti o n . M y
u n d e r s t a n d in g is th a t y o u r q u e s ti o n w a s – I a m p a r a p h r a s in g . W h a t i s
t h e p o i n t o f s h o w in g th e s e p h o t o g r a p h s ? I s m y u n d e r s t a n d i n g c o r r e c t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : He did not give me an
e x p l a n a t io n C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t t h a t w a s i n e ffe c t t h e q u e s t io n y o u p u t t o h i m ?
10

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d h e d i d n o t g i v e y o u a n a n s w e r t o th a t q u e s ti o n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: No, no.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y. T h a n k y o u .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. S o ju s t to c o n fi r m
t h e c o n c lu s i o n o f c o i n c id e n c e t h a t y o u d r a w is y o u r c o n c l u s i o n ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h a t is m y c o n c l u s io n
C h a ir.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : To c o n ti n u e o n p a g e 1 0 7 o f E X H I B I T
Z G p a r a g r a p h 3 2 8 it is r e c o r d e d th a t :

20

“ Bo o y s e n w a s t h e n s u s p e n d e d fr o m d u ty.

He

s u c c e s s fu ll y

the

c h a l le n g e d

h is

s u s p e n s io n

in

L a b o u r C o u r t o n tw o o c c a s io n s .”
N e x t.
CHAIRPERSON :

W h e n – I a m s o r r y.

Yo u w e n t to c o u r t a n u m b e r o f

ti m e s I t h in k y o u s a id . Is t h a t r i g h t ? In r e g a r d t o y o u r s u s p e n s i o n s a n d

Page 41 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
c r i m i n a l c h a r g e s a g a in s t y o u . I s t h a t r i g h t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir if I i n c lu d e th e

d is c i p l i n a r y h e a r i n g a n d t h e S C A m a t te r t h a t w a s a b a n d o n e d b y S A P S I
t h i n k i t is p r o b a b ly a b o u t s e v e n o r e i g h t ti m e s b u t t o c o u r t - t o H i g h
C o u r t a n d L a b o u r C o u r t I t h i n k s ix o r s e v e n t i m e s .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s . T h a t m u s t h a v e b e e n q u i t e e x p e n s iv e in t e r m s

of lawyers?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ve r y e x p e n s i v e C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y. T h a n k y o u .
10

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

To t h e n

q u ic k ly d e a l w i t h y o u r

s u s p e n s i o n s . W h e n w e r e y o u f ir s t s u s p e n d e d G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir j u s t a f te r th e

S u n d a y Ti m e s a r ti c l e a p p e a r e d i n D e c e m b e r 2 0 11 .

O ff ic i a lly w e h a d

t h e C h r i s t m a s p e r i o d t h e n n o th i n g h a p p e n e d d u r i n g D e c e m b e r.

Then

e a r ly a n d I t h i n k i t w a s e a r ly F e b r u a r y I r e c e iv e d a n o ti c e o f in t e n t i o n
t o s u s p e n d m e a n d I h a d t o a d v a n c e r e a s o n s w h y I s h o u ld n o t b e
suspended.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d t h is w a s w h a t y e a r n o w – F e b r u a r y w h a t y e a r ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : 2 0 1 2 C h a ir.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y a n d a t th a t – a t th a t s t a g e w h o – th e n o t ic e
w o u ld h a v e c o m e fr o m w h o m – a p r o v i n c i a l ly p e r s o n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

N o t h a t c a m e fr o m

n a t io n a l C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

W o u ld it h a v e b e e n t h e N a ti o n a l C o m m i s s i o n e r o f

P o lic e ?

Page 42 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A t t h a t ti m e n o .

It

was from General Dramat.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h , o k a y a lr i g h t . T h a n k y o u .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

So

C h a ir

e a r ly / m i d - F e b r u a r y I r e c e iv e d t h is n o t ic e o f i n t e n t io n t o s u s p e n d b u t t h e
n o t ic e w a s v e r y v a g u e . S o I w r o te to S A P S a n d I s a i d l o o k I n e e d m o r e
in f o r m a ti o n t o m a k e a m e a n in g f u l r e p r e s e n t a ti o n .

I cannot make a

r e p r e s e n t a ti o n i f I d o n o t k n o w w h y I a m s u s p e n d e d a n d I r e c e iv e d a
le t t e r b a c k fr o m .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : A f t e r – a f t e r – w e l l I t h i n k i f s o m e b o d y is c o n s id e r in g
s u s p e n d in g a n y b o d y t h e y a r e t h e o n e s w h o m u s t g i v e t h e b a s i s fi r s t .
W h y a r e t h e y th i n k i n g o f t h a t i n th e fir s t p l a c e ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S L B O O Y S E N : I n d e e d C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

S o th a t – t h e n y o u c a n a d d r e s s t h o s e is s u e s r a t h e r

t h a n s i m p l y s a y in g y o u m u s t s a y w h y y o u s h o u l d n o t b e s u s p e n d e d
w i t h o u t s a y i n g w h y t h e y a r e t h i n k in g o f s u s p e n d i n g y o u i n th e f ir s t
place.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t is i n d e e d th e

c a s e C h a ir.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t s h o u l d a p p ly t o e v e r y b o d y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

So

C h a ir

t h e ir

r e s p o n s e w a s v e r y c u r t s a y in g t h a t w e l l t h e r e i s e n o u g h i n f o r m a ti o n a t
m y d is p o s a l a n d t h e y a r e p r o c e e d in g w i t h t h e m a t t e r. S o I w e n t t o t h e
L a b o u r C o u r t a n d a p p l i e d fo r a n in t e r d i c t b e c a u s e o f th e p a u c it y o f t h e
in f o r m a ti o n i n t h e – i n t h e n o ti c e .

T h e – w e l l t h e p o l ic e d id a p p o i n t

Page 43 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C o u n s e l b u t b y c o n s e n t t h e o r d e r w a s g r a n te d a n d t h e o r d e r s a i d t h a t
t h e p o l ic e c a n n o t s u s p e n d m e u n l e s s a n d t h e r e w a s a li s t o f q u e s ti o n s
t h a t t h e y h a d t o a n s w e r. I n e v e r r e c e iv e d t h o s e a n s w e r s . T h e r e w a s a
v e r y a m a te u r is h a t t e m p t a c o u p l e o f – a c o u p l e o f t h e – I t h i n k s e v e n o r
e i g h t q u e s t i o n s w e r e a n s w e r e d b u t in n o p a r ti c u l a r s e q u e n c e a n d I
w r o t e b a c k to t h e m a n d I s a id t o t h e m lo o k th is i s u n a c c e p t a b l e . Yo u
s t il l h a v e n o t c o m p li e d w i t h t h e c o u r t o r d e r a n d I t h in k i t w a s a b o u t
t h r e e w e e k s l a te r I w a s c a l le d i n a n d g i v e n a n o tic e t h a t I a m n o w
s u s p e n d e d a n d I s t il l s a i d t o th e G e n e r a l .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : W i t h o u t a n s w e r s t o th o s e q u e s t io n s ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Without any answers

t o t h o s e q u e s ti o n s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I s t il l s a i d t o th e

G e n e r a l – h e h a n d e d m e t h e s u s p e n s io n – s u s p e n s io n n o ti c e .

I s a id

w e ll th e r e is a n in t e r d i c t a n d s h e j u s t s h r u g g e d h e r s h o u l d e r s a n d I – I
p h o n e d m y a t to r n e y r ig h t t h e r e a n d t h e n a n d I p r o c e e d e d t o h is o ff ic e
a n d w e w o r k e d t h r o u g h o u t th e n i g h t t o a p p ly fo r a n – fo r a n u r g e n t
c o u r t o r d e r to s e t a s i d e t h e s u s p e n s i o n – t o d e c la r e it u n l a w f u l C h a ir.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : J u s t b e f o r e y o u p r o c e e d ju s t to m a k e s u r e o n e g e ts –
u n d e r s t a n d s w h o t h e p la y e r s o r t h e a c to r s w e r e in t h is c o n te x t n o w.
Yo u s a i d t h e n o t ic e t o – t h e n o t ic e g i v in g – a s k in g y o u to m a k e
r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s

why

you

should

not

be

suspended

came

fr o m

General Dramat?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.

Page 44 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON :

Wa s i t h i m a l s o w h o m a d e th e d e c is i o n t h a t y o u

s h o u l d b e s u s p e n d e d – th e s u s p e n s i o n t h a t y o u a r e n o w ta lk i n g a b o u t
w h ic h y o u a n d y o u r t e a m w e r e l o o k i n g a t c h a ll e n g i n g ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir i n m y v i e w d e

f a c to i t w a s h i m .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o d e ju r o i t w a s h i m
b u t d e f a c t o i t w a s s o m e o n e e ls e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h , o k a y.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Hm.
C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s u r e y o u w il l e x p l a i n h o w t h a t c a m e a b o u t .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t h i n k I w il l .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Probably later on in

m y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : In d u e c o u r s e . Th a t i s f i n e , ja .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Because

I

fi r m ly

b e li e v e th a t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

General Dramat was

u n d e r p r e s s u r e fr o m t h e t h e n M i n i s te r N a th i M t h e t h w a .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h e M i n i s te r o f P o l ic e
at the time.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

Page 45 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d a ls o l a t e r o n I

w i ll .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : E x p l a in t h a t l a t e r o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : So Chair just to recap
I o b t a i n e d a n in t e r d i c t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

A g a in s t S A P S n o t t o

suspend me.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

U n l e s s t h e y p r o v id e

m e w i t h t h e n e c e s s a r y i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t I r e q u ir e t o m a k e a m e a n i n g f u l
r e p r e s e n t a ti o n .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : They do not supply all
of the information.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : We correspond to and
20

fr o a n d w e t e l l t h e m w e a r e n o t h a p p y w i th r e s p o n s e . T h e n e x t m o m e n t
they suspend me.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I i m m e d i a te ly w e n t

b a c k to c o u r t a n d I a p p li e d f o r t h e s u s p e n s i o n to b e d e c l a r e d u n l a w fu l
a n d to b e s e t a s id e .

Page 46 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I r e c a ll i t w a s a p u b l ic
h o li d a y t h e fo ll o w i n g d a y a n d t h e – th e J u d g e s t il l s a i d l o o k th is is a
p u b lic h o l id a y. I t is n o t g o in g to i m p a c t o n th e a p p l ic a n t – m y s e l f .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d th a t h e i s g iv in g

S A P S u n ti l 3 o ’ c l o c k t h a t f o l lo w i n g a f t e r n o o n to t e l l h i m w h y h e s h o u ld
n o t g r a n t t h e o r d e r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d 3 o ’ c l o c k th e

f o ll o w i n g a f t e r n o o n I r e c e i v e d a c a ll fr o m m y a t t o r n e y w h e r e i n S A P S
r e q u e s t e d m e t o w i t h d r a w my a p p li c a t io n .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d t h e y w ill w i t h d r a w
t h e – th e s u s p e n s i o n w h ic h I d e c li n e d .

I s a i d n o I w o u l d l ik e t o s e e

t h e m i n c o u r t a n d y o u c a n m a k e – w e w i ll m a k e it a n o r d e r o f t h e c o u r t .
CHAIRPERSON : I mean that did not make sense. I mean you went to
c o u r t b e c a u s e t h e y – th e y s u s p e n d e d y o u .

I f t h e y w a n te d y o u r

a p p lic a ti o n n o t t o p r o c e e d th e y s h o u l d – th e y w o u l d j u s t h a v e t o
20

w i t h d r a w th e s u s p e n s i o n . N o t t h e o t h e r w a y r o u n d .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Chair not much of

w h a t th e y d i d a t t h e t i m e m a d e s e n s e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm, yes.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
w a n t e d t o g o to c o u r t .

Page 47 of 258

A n d I i n s is t e d t h a t I

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d h a v e i t d e c la r e d

unlawful.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And we went to court

t h e f o l l o w i n g d a y a n d m y s u s p e n s i o n w a s s e t a s id e a n d th e c o n te m p t
p r o c e e d i n g s a g a in s t S A P S w a s r e m a n d e d s in e d i e .
CHAIRPERSON:

A n d th e – s o t h e r e w e r e c o n te m p t p r o c e e d i n g s t h a t

y o u h a d b r o u g h t i n th e m e a n t i m e a s w e ll ?
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W e ll I h a d b r o u g h t

them simultaneous.
C H A I R P E R S O N : S i m u l t a n e o u s l y w i th y o u r a p p l ic a ti o n t o ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

A n d – a n d t h a t – t h e b a s is o f t h e c o n t e m p t

p r o c e e d i n g s w a s t h a t t h e s u s p e n s i o n w a s i n b r e a c h o f th e fir s t c o u r t
o r d e r w h ic h h a d s a i d b e f o r e t h e y c o u l d s u s p e n d y o u t h e y h a d t o a n s w e r
t h o s e – c e r ta i n q u e s ti o n s a n d y o u w e r e s a y i n g th e y w e r e i n b r e a c h o f
t h a t c o u r t o r d e r b e c a u s e t h e y s u s p e n d e d y o u w i t h o u t c o m p ly i n g w i th
t h a t r e q u ir e m e n t ?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t is i n d e e d th e

c a s e C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Thank

you

C h a ir.

What

th e n

h a p p e n e d d u r in g S e p t e m b e r 2 0 1 2 ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 48 of 258

C h a ir t h e n I w e n t

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
b a c k to w o r k a n d . .. ( i n te r v e n t io n )
CHAIRPERSON :

M a y b e b e f o r e w e p r o c e e d , w h a t h a p p e n e d t o th e

c o n te m p t p r o c e e d i n g s b e c a u s e a t s o m e s t a g e s o m e f i n a li ty w o u ld h a v e
been required?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Chair

they

were

r e m a n d e d s i n e d ie , I d id n o t p u r s u e t h a t f o r t h e s i m p l e r e a s o n I w a s
b o g g e d d o w n w i t h li ti g a ti o n a n d i t w a s b a s ic a ll y a f ig h t f o r s u r v i v a l s o I
never pursued that.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s y e s , b u t fr o m y o u r o w n u n d e r s t a n d i n g w o u ld t h a t
10

m e a n th a t it m a y s t il l b e p e n d i n g , o r w a s i t w i t h d r a w n f o r m a l ly o r d o
y o u h a v e a n y r e c o ll e c t io n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir a t o n e s ta g e I

d i d c a n v a s t h is w i th m y a t t o r n e y, M r v a n d e r M e r w e , a n d – b u t t h a t w a s
much later when I had more time and he said to me look Johan I don’t
t h i n k i t’s g o in g t o b e a p p r o p r i a te a t s u c h a l a t e s t a g e t o p u r s u e t h is s o
I just left it.
CHAIRPERSON :

J a , s o y o u d o n ’ t k n o w w h e th e r i t w a s f o r m a ll y

w i t h d r a w n b u t y o u e f f e c tiv e ly a b a n d o n e d i t .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

I a b a n d o n e d it C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y th a n k y o u .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Thank you.

General Booysen what

then happened during September of 2012?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Chair then – sorry

w h ic h m o n t h ?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

D u r i n g S e p te m b e r o f 2 0 1 2 .

Page 49 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir

a ft e r

my

s u s p e n s i o n w a s s e t a s i d e I w e n t b a c k t o w o r k a n d c o n t i n u e d w i th t h e
in v e s t i g a t io n s a n d t h e n i n S e p te m b e r 2 0 1 2 I w a s a r r e s t e d .

I was

d e t a i n e d f o r o n e n i g h t , w e n t t o C o u r t t h e f o l lo w in g d a y, r e le a s e d o n
b a il , b a i l w a s n o t o p p o s e d a n d I w e n t b a c k t o w o r k a n d t h e n a b o u t a
w e e k o r t w o la t e r I w a s s u s p e n d e d a g a i n a n d t h i s t i m e C h a i r I t h o u g h t it
w o u ld b e a fu t il e e x e r c i s e t o n o w a g a i n t r y a n d s e t a s id e th e
s u s p e n s i o n b e c a u s e t h a t s u s p e n s io n w e n t h a n d in h a n d w i t h m e b e i n g
a r r e s t e d f o r a c r i m i n a l o ffe n c e .
10

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

A n d d i d t h a t s u s p e n s i o n r e s u lt i n a

d is c i p l i n a r y h e a r i n g b e in g c o n v e n e d ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir n o i n t e r m s o f

t h e p o l ic e r e g u l a ti o n s o n c e y o u a r e s u s p e n d e d th e d i s c i p li n a r y h e a r in g
s h o u l d c o m m e n c e w i t h i n 6 0 d a y s , s o t h e r e w a s n o d is c ip li n a r y h e a r i n g ,
w h a t i n f a c t h a p p e n e d i s w h e n I – i n t h e m e a n t i m e I h a d ta k e n th e J i b a
a u t h o r i s a t io n o n r e v i e w a n d t h e n a f t e r J u d g e G o r v a n r u l e d i n m y fa v o u r
I s a i d I a m g o i n g b a c k t o w o r k n o w a n d th e n t h a t f o l l o w i n g w e e k , i t w a s
d u r i n g t h e e v e n i n g I w a s s e r v e d w i th p a p e r s a n d th a t w a s – I s t il l r e c a ll
I th in k i t w a s 6 0 0 d a y s la t e r i n s t e a d o f 6 0 d a y s l a t e r.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : D i d y o u s a y 6 0 0 in s t e a d o f 6 0 d a y s ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t ’s c o r r e c t y e s s o

w h a t k e p t m e o u t o f o ffi c e w a s t h e c r i m i n a l c h a r g e s h a n g i n g o v e r m y
head.

W h e n t h e C o u r t r u l e d in m y f a v o u r a n d t h e c h a r g e s w e r e

withdrawn by the State often I could go back to work and then
b e l a t e d ly, 6 0 0 d a y s l a te r, 6 0 0 o d d d a y s l a t e r I w a s s e r v e d w i t h p a p e r s

Page 50 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
f o r a d i s c i p li n a r y h e a r i n g .
CHAIRPERSON :

Th a t w il l b e – 6 0 0 d a y s w ill b e m o r e o r l e s s t w o

years.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Tw o

years

later

C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

A n d w a s t h e r e e v e r a n e x p l a n a t io n w h y t h is w a s

b e i n g d o n e s o l a te in b r e a c h o f th e 6 0 d a y r e q u ir e m e n t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir

when

th e

h e a r in g s t a r t e d w e r a is e d t h e p o i n t in li m i n e o b j e c ti n g t o th e p r o c e d u r e
10

b e i n g f o ll o w e d .

T h e C h a ir p e r s o n o v e r r u l e d u s a n d th e n I s a i d to m y

a tt o r n e y l e t ’s j u s t p la c e i t o n r e c o r d , i f t h e f in d in g e v e n tu a lly is a d v e r s e
t o m e t h e n a t l e a s t w e c a n ta k e it o n r e v i e w, w e h a v e p l a c e d i t o n
record.

Fo r t u n a t e ly i t t u r n e d o u t t h a t I w a s e x o n e r a te d d u r in g th a t

d is c i p l i n a r y h e a r i n g w h ic h l a s te d s ix m o n th s .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

A n d w h o c h a ir e d t h a t d i s c i p li n a r y

h e a r in g ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

It

was

senior

counsel, Advocate Naseer Cassiem.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
20

bundle ZB?

To th a t e n d c a n I th e n t a k e y o u t o

T h a t ’s p a g e 4 4 2 , o r r a t h e r 4 4 3 , s o r r y.

m a r k e d a s fi n d i n g s .

T h is d o c u m e n t is

If I can ask you to then turn to page 470, is it

c o r r e c t t h a t t h e c o n c lu s i o n o f A d v o c a t e N a s e e r C a s s i e m S C w a s :
”that

th e

employer

has

not

d is c h a r g e d

th e

onus

of

d e m o n s t r a t in g w r o n g d o i n g o n t h e p a r t o f t h e e m p l o y e e , M a j o r
G e n e r a l J o h a n W e s s e l B o o y s e n ,”

Page 51 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
And at paragraph 77:
” I n m y v ie w i t w o u l d b e u n ju s t n o t to f o r th w it h r e in s ta t e
B o o y s e n t o h is p o s i ti o n a s Pr o v in c i a l H e a d o f P r i o r it y C r i m e
I n v e s ti g a t i o n i n K w a Z u lu N a ta l s o t h a t h e c a n d o w h a t h e is
b e s t s u i te d to d o , t h a t is fi g h t c r i m e .”
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t w a s t h e f in d in g

C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

W h i l e w e a r e d e a li n g w i t h t h is

p a r t ic u l a r f in d in g I a s k y o u t o t u r n t o p a g e 4 4 , s o r r y p a r a g r a p h 4 4
10

w h ic h is a t p a g e 4 5 7 o f t h e s a m e b u n d l e . A t p a r a g r a p h 4 4 t h e f in d in g s
of Advocate Naseer Cassiem, SC reads:
“ T h a t I f o u n d C o l o n e l Ai y e r to b e a d is m a l w i tn e s s i n m a t e r i a l
r e s p e c ts . H e i s o b s e s s e d b y th e n o ti o n o f h i s o w n i m p o r ta n c e
a n d h is e n t ir e t e s ti m o n y w a s p e r m e a t e d b y h i s p o li t ic a l
a c c e p ta b i li t y a n d s e l f - i m p o r ta n c e . I f i n d h i m n o t to b e t h e k in d
o f p r o f e s s io n a l p o li c e m a n o n e w o u l d e x p e c t h o ld in g t h e r a n k
h e h o l d s . H is te n u r e o f e v i d e n c e a s I h a v e in d ic a t e d a b o v e is
o n e i n w h ic h h e e m p h a s iz e s h is o w n i m p o r t a n c e b u t l a c k i n g i n

20

c o n d u c t j u s ti fy in g h i s u s e f u ln e s s .

I t h in k t h o s e i n c h a r g e o f

the

consider

SAPS

ought

to

c a r e fu ll y

c o n ti n u o u s r o le i n t h e P o lic e F o r c e .

C o lo n e l

A iy e r ’s

I n h is q u e s t f o r

a c c e p ta n c e a n d s e l f i m p o r t a n c e h e is d e te r m i n e d t o t a r n i s h
B o o y s e n ’s r e p u t a t i o n a n d d i g n i ty ir r e s p e c ti v e o f t h e c o s t t o th e
o v e r a l l i n te r e s t o f th e p o li c e f o r c e .

I f i n fa c t t h e e m p l o y e r

p a r t y a c tu a l ly b e li e v e d th a t i t c o u l d e s t a b l is h a c a s e a g a i n s t

Page 52 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h e e m p l o y e e b a s e d o n t h e e v id e n c e o f C o l o n e l A iy e r th is w a s
a s e r i o u s e r r o r o f j u d g m e n t a n d w o r s e s ti l l a s t r o n g i n d ic a ti o n
t h a t t h e e m p l o y e r s o u g h t to c r e a te a c a s e w h e r e o n e d i d n o t
e x i s t. ”
W h o e x a c tl y w a s C o l o n e l Ai y e r i n t h e c o n te x t o f t h e r a c k e t e e r i n g
p r o c e s s t h a t w a s i n s ti t u te d a g a in s t y o u ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Colonel he – sorry

C h a ir h e is t h e k e y w i t n e s s i n t h e r a c k e te e r in g c a s e .

I am being

c h a r g e d u n d e r ( e ) a n d ( f) o f P O C A a n d ( f) b e i n g t h a t I m a n a g e d th e
10

e n t e r p r i s e . S o w h e r e a s h e w a s th e a c tu a l u n i t c o m m a n d e r a t t h e t i m e
h e n o w b e c o m e s a w i t n e s s a g a i n s t m e , I d o n ’t k n o w h o w h e c a n b e a
w i t n e s s , h e s h o u l d h a v e b e e n a 2 0 4 w i t n e s s , b u t h e i s n o w th e k e y
witness against myself and some of the Cato Manor members in that we
m a n a g e d a c r i m in a l e n t e r p r is e .

H is s t a t e m e n ts w e r e v e n t il a te d i n t h e

m a t t e r, t h e r e v i e w m a t t e r w h ic h I b r o u g h t in fr o n t o f J u d g e G o r v a n a n d
m y c o n t e n t io n a t t h e ti m e w a s t h a t th e s t a te m e n t t h a t h e h a d m a d e a t
t h e ti m e , w e l l h e m a d e t h r e e C h a ir a n d a ll t h r e e a r e v e r y i n c o h e r e n t t o
s a y t h e l e a s t.

I t r e l a t e d t o o ff ic e p o li t ic s , t h e r e w a s n o i n d ic a ti o n o f

a n y o ff e n c e b e i n g c o m m i t t e d w h a t s o e v e r a n d m y
20

a s s e r ti o n w a s

c o n fir m e d b y J u d g e G o r v a n t h a t i t o n l y r e l a t e s t o o ff ic e p o l i ti c s a n d
m u c h la t e r w h e n A d v o c a t e A b r a h a m s b e c a m e t h e N D P P h e p r o c u r e d a
le g a l o p i n i o n f r o m t w o o f h is a d v o c a te s , o n e b e i n g a s e n i o r a d v o c a te ,
A d v o c a t e J a n Fe r r e ir a a n d A d v o c a t e Va n E e d e n i n w h ic h th e y h a d to –
w e ll t h e y h a d t o g iv e h i m a le g a l o p in i o n a s t o w h y th e y s h o u l d p r o c e e d
w i t h c r i m i n a l c h a r g e s a g a in s t A d v o c a te N o m g c o b o J i b a fo r – i n m y

Page 53 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m a t t e r, a n d i n th a t p a r tic u l a r l e g a l o p in io n w h ic h I m a n a g e d to o b ta in
b e c a u s e i t b e c a m e p a r t o f c o u r t p a p e r s i n a n o t h e r a p p li c a t io n b y o n e o f
t h e s e n o n - g o v e r n m e n t a l o r g a n is a t i o n s , in th a t p a r ti c u l a r l e g a l o p i n i o n
b o t h t h o s e a d v o c a te s fr o m t h e N a ti o n a l P r o s e c u ti n g A u t h o r i t y a c tu a l ly
c o n fir m s , o r t h e y d o n ’t c o n fi r m th e y a g r e e w i t h w h a t J u d g e G o r v a n h a v e
s a i d , a n d w h a t I h a v e s a i d c o n f ir m e d b y J u d g e G o r v a n th a t it o n ly
r e l a t e s to o ffi c e p o li t ic s a n d it ’s t h i s v e r y s a m e C o l o n e l A iy e r t h a t
A d v o c a t e S e a n A b r a h a m s is s t il l r e ly i n g o n b e c a u s e h e m u c h la t e r a n d I
w i ll te s t i fy a b o u t th a t l a te r, i n s p i te o f t h e c o u r t o r d e r h e a u th o r is e d m y
10

p r o s e c u t i o n b u t h e s ti ll r e m a i n s t h e k e y w i t n e s s fo r t h e S t a t e .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

S o c h a r g e s h a v e b e e n r e i n s t it u t e d

a g a in s t y o u ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t is i n d e e d th e

c a s e C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t t h a t is fr o m w h e n , w h e n d i d t h a t h a p p e n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir

it

was

r e i n s t a te d I t h in k Fe b r u a r y 2 0 1 6 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y, th a n k y o u .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
20

S o A d v o c a t e N a s e e r C a s s i e m ’s

fi n d i n g s w h i c h is d a t e d t h e 1 6 t h o f S e p t e m b e r 2 0 1 4 is r e l e a s e d , d o y o u
r e tu r n t o w o r k ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir I h a v e n o w

b e e n e x o n e r a t e d b y A d v o c a t e C a s s i e m i n a d is c ip li n a r y h e a r in g , t h e
C o u r t h a d f o u n d t h a t t h e r e w a s n o c a s e a g a i n s t m e , a n d f o r t u n a t e ly f o r
m y s e l f t h e C o n s ti t u ti o n a l C o u r t t h e n a t t h a t t i m e w i t h th e G ly n n is t e r

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m a t t e r s a id th a t m y s e l f w o u ld n o w r e p o r t t o t h e N a ti o n a l H e a d a n d t h e
N a t io n a l H e a d t o t h e M i n is te r, w h e r e a s in th e p r e v i o u s e r a a m I to
r e p o r t to b o t h t h e P r o v i n c i a l C o m m i s s io n e r a n d t o t h e N a t i o n a l H e a d ,
a n d th e N a t io n a l H e a d o f th e H a w k s a l s o h a d to r e p o r t t o t h e N a ti o n a l
C o m m i s s i o n e r, s o t h a t w a s a ll ta k e n o u t o f th e e q u a ti o n , s o I d e c i d e d , I
p h o n e d G e n e r a l D r a m a t a n d I s a i d lo o k I a m g o i n g b a c k t o w o r k n o w,
and he agreed with me.

I th e n r e c e iv e d a p h o n e c a l l fr o m G e n e r a l

D r a m a t t h a t I n e e d to c o m e t o P r e t o r i a w h e r e I h a d t o m e e t w it h h i m
a n d t h e th e n N a t io n a l C o m m i s s i o n e r R i a h P h iy e g a .
10

G e n e r a l P h iy e g a

c a l l e d m e t o h e r o ff ic e , m y s e lf a n d D r a m a t a n d s h e g a v e m e t h r e e
o p t io n s , s h e s a id t o m e e i t h e r y o u m u s t r e m a i n a t h o m e o n s p e c ia l
le a v e o r y o u s h o u l d t a k e a t r a n s f e r o r i f y o u ta k e a S e c ti o n 3 5 , S e c ti o n
3 5 is a g o l d e n h a n d s h a k e , I s ti ll h a d t h r e e y e a r s l e f t i n t h e p o lic e
s e r v ic e s o s h e w a s p r e p a r e d t o p a y m e o u t f o r t h r e e y e a r s a n d t h e n I
s a i d t o h e r w e ll . . .( i n te r v e n t io n )
CHAIRPERSON :

I f t h a t h a p p e n e d , i f th a t h a p p e n e d , if y o u h a d g o n e

f o r t h a t r o u t e , th a t o p t i o n , w h a t i t w o u l d h a v e m e a n t is th a t o n e , t h e
c o u n tr y w o u ld h a v e p a i d y o u f o r t h r e e y e a r s f o r s ta y i n g a t h o m e w h e n
y o u c o u ld h a v e b e e n w o r k in g , t h a t’s o n e , i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir i t ’s a c t u a l ly

w o r s e t h a n t h a t b e c a u s e a t t h a t s t a g e I h a d a lr e a d y b e e n s i t ti n g a t
h o m e f o r t w o y e a r s , s o a n o t h e r t h r e e , s o t h e S t a te w o u ld h a v e h a d to
p a y m e , a n d d e s p i t e w h a t a l o t o f p e o p l e s a y th e p o lic e g e n e r a ls g e t a
g e n e r o u s s a l a r y, t h e t a x p a y e r w o u l d h a v e t o p a y my s e l f s i t ti n g a t h o m e
f o r f iv e y e a r s .

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s , b u t a l s o i n r e la ti o n t o th e t h r e e y e a r s i f y o u
h a d t a k e n t h a t r o u t e t h e y w o u l d h a v e h a d t o a p p o in t s o m e b o d y e ls e i n
y o u r p o s i ti o n a n d p a i d t h a t p e r s o n f o r t h a t t h r e e y e a r s , s o d u r i n g t h a t
t h r e e y e a r s t h e y w o u l d h a v e b e e n p a y in g t w o p e o p le f o r t h e s a m e j o b .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t ’s i n d e e d t h e

c a s e C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : S o b u t th a t ’s o n e o f t h e o p t io n s s h e o ff e r e d y o u .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t ’s

what

she

o ffe r e d m e C h a ir.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a i r s o I t o ld h e r, a t

t h a t s ta g e s h e t o l d m e s h e ’s t a k i n g A d v o c a t e C a s s i e m o n r e v i e w s o I
s a i d t o h e r w e ll y o u n e e d t o f il e a r e c o r d f o r m e t o o p p o s e i t, w h ic h u p
u n t il t o d a y s h e h a d n ’ t d o n e , b u t t h e n s h e s a id t o m e s h e is g o i n g to
g iv e m e a m o n t h t o th i n k a b o u t i t , a m o n t h la t e r I w e n t b a c k a n d s h e
c a l l e d m e i n to h e r o ffi c e o n c e a g a in a n d t h is t i m e a r o u n d s h e a lr e a d y
h a d t h e Br i g a d i e r f r o m F i n a n c e S e r v ic e s t h e r e w i th t h e d o c u m e n t a ti o n
f o r m e t o s ig n , s o I s a i d t o .. .( i n t e r v e n ti o n )
C H A I R P E R S O N : To s ig n fo r w h a t n o w ?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

Ei t h e r t h e t r a n s f e r o r

the Section 25, the golden handshake.
CHAIRPERSON : Oh ja.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S o C h a ir s h e a s k e d

m e s o w h a t d i d y o u d e c i d e s o I s a i d t o h e r o p t i o n n u m b e r o n e is n o t a n
o p t io n , I a m n o t g o in g t o s t a y a t h o m e a n y lo n g e r, I h a v e b e e n s i t ti n g a t

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
h o m e f o r t w o y e a r s a lr e a d y a n d t h e n s h e s a i d t o m e o p t io n n u m b e r t w o ,
I s a i d I a m n o t g o i n g t o t a k e a tr a n s f e r, t h e n s h e s a id t o m e s o I g iv e
y o u a l a w f u l in s tr u c ti o n t o tr a n s fe r y o u y o u ’r e g o i n g t o – y o u ’r e n o t
g o i n g t o c o m p ly w i th m y i n s tr u c ti o n .

I s a i d n o t h a t ’s n o t w h a t I’ m

s a y in g , s o s h e w h a t a r e y o u s a y i n g I s a i d w e l l i f y o u tr a n s fe r m e I w i ll
t a k e th e m a t t e r t o c o u r t .
tr a n s fe r m e .

S h e s a id w h y, I s a id b e c a u s e y o u c a n n o t

Th e n s h e s a i d t o m e w e l l w h o c a n tr a n s fe r y o u .

I said

G e n e r a l D r a m a t c a n tr a n s f e r m e i n t e r m s o f th e G ly n n i s t e r j u d g m e n t .
Then she asked General Dramat what do you say General, and then he
10

s a i d t o h e r n o h e a g r e e s w i th m e , a t w h i c h p o i n t s h e – w e l l t h e n t h e
w h o le t id e c h a n g e d , t h e n s h e s t a r t e d a r g u i n g w i th h i m , a n d t h e n w h e n
it g o t to t h e p o i n t o f t h e S e c ti o n 3 5 , t h e G o l d e n H a n d s h a k e , t h e n s h e
s a i d to m e w h a t a b o u t t h a t o p t i o n , I s a i d n o I a m n o t g o i n g t o t a k e t h a t
e i t h e r, a n d th e n s h e s a id t o m e w h y n o t, I s a i d w e ll I’ m s ti ll r e a s o n a b l y
fi t a n d y o u n g a n d I t h in k I c a n s t il l m a k e a c o n tr i b u t i o n t o fi g h t c r i m e i n
K Z N a n d a t t h a t t i m e t h e c a s h i n tr a n s i t h e is t s a n d t h e p o l i tic a l k il li n g s
h a d s p ir a ll e d o u t o f c o n t r o l a n d I s a id t o h e r c r i m e i s o u t o f c o n tr o l i n
KZN, she said how can you say that.

I s a i d w e ll y o u r o w n D iv i s i o n a l

C o m m i s s i o n e r a s r e c e n t a s la s t w e e k m a d e a s t a t e m e n t i n th e D a il y
20

News newspapers that he needs to send task teams to KZN to deal wi th
t h e s e c r i m e m a t t e r s , a n d t h e n s h e s a i d t o m e b e f o r e I e x c u s e y o u is
t h e r e a n y t h in g e ls e y o u w o u ld lik e to s a y, s o I s a id n o t h e r e i s
s o m e t h i n g I w o u l d li k e to s a y, I g o t u p a n d I s a i d I w il l b e b a c k i n m y
o ffic e t o m o r r o w a n d t h e n I w a l k e d o u t a n d t h e n I h a d to w a i t f o r
G e n e r a l D r a m a t a n d I c o u l d h e a r t h r o u g h t h e w a lls th a t i t w a s n ’ t a

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
p l e a s a n t m e e ti n g .
T h e n D r a m a t e v e n t u a l ly c a m e o u t a n d w e l e ft a n d h e s a i d t o
m e P h iy e g a w a n t s t o k n o w w h a t m a k e s m e tic k , I s a i d w h a t m a k e s m e
ti c k i s l e t m e d o my w o r k , th a t ’s w h a t m a k e s m e ti c k .
H e s a i d t o m e t h a t s h e h a s r e q u e s te d t h a t I d o n ’ t g o b a c k to
w o r k a n d th a t I t a k e tw o w e e k s l e a v e .
CHAIRPERSON : What for?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir t h e y ju s t d i d n ’ t

w a n t m e b a c k a t t h e o ffi c e . T h e y j u s t d i d n ’t w a n t m e b a c k a t t h e o ffi c e .
10

CHAIRPERSON :

D id G e n e r a l D r a m a t t e l l y o u w h e t h e r h e a s k e d h e r

w h a t fo r ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Chair General Dramat

is a v e r y s o f t s p o k e n p e r s o n , a n d h e is n o t c o n fr o n ta t io n a l . B u t h e w a s
1 0 0 % b e h i n d m e g o i n g b a c k to w o r k a n d I a g r e e d w i th h i m I s a i d t o h i m
lo o k w h a t I w i ll d o is I w il l t a k e tw o w e e k s l e a v e , b u t I a m g o i n g t o g o
b a c k t o m y o ff ic e , I a m g o in g t o r e p o r t b a c k fo r d u ty, b e c a u s e I k n o w
h o w t h e y o p e r a te , if y o u s t a y a w a y t h e n t h e y w il l s a y n o y o u
a c q u i e s c e d t o t h e p r o c e s s o f s t a y in g a w a y n o w y o u ’r e b a c k s o I s a i d I
w i ll g o b a c k t o w o r k t h e n I a m g o i n g t o a p p ly f o r l e a v e f o r t w o w e e k s , I
20

am going to send it to you, you must approve it, that means I am back
at work.
Then he said to me how can we o vercome this impasse, I said
le t G e n e r a l N k o m b e n i , t h e P r o v i n c ia l C o m m is s i o n e r a t th e ti m e , le t u s
a l l h a v e a r o u n d ta b le w i th t h e N a t i o n a l C o m m i s s i o n e r, le t ’s s o r t t h is
thing out.

S o a m o n t h l a te r w e h a d t h i s m e e ti n g a n d t h is m e e t i n g

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t u r n e d i n to a d e b a c l e , to s a y t h e t h e l e a s e .
CHAIRPERSON :

N o w t h e g e n e r a l t h a t y o u r e fe r r e d , N k o m b e n i , t h e

P r o v i n c ia l C o m m i s s io n e r.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s C h a ir.

A n d t h i s w a s a f t e r t h e in c i d e n ts , o b v io u s ly i t w a s

a ft e r t h e i n c id e n ts w h e r e s h e c a ll e d y o u a n d s a i d s t o p t h e i n v e s t ig a ti o n
and so on and so on.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Ye s .

C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, y e s a lr ig h t .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

So they convened

t h is m e e t in g w i t h G e n e r a l P h i y e g a , G e n e r a l M a k u b e la , w h o h a s s i n c e
p a s s e d a w a y, G e n e r a l D r a m a t , th e r e w a s a n o t h e r G e n e r a l fr o m L e g a l
S e r v ic e s , I c a n n o t r e c a ll h e r n a m e , s h e w a s s it t in g a c r o s s , a n d I c o u l d
s e e fr o m h e r d e m e a n o u r th a t s h e w a s n ’ t e v e n i n t e r e s te d in l is te n in g
b e c a u s e s h e k n e w w h a t w a s g o in g o n w a s w r o n g , s h e w a s o n h e r
p h o n e , I d o n ’ t k n o w w h e t h e r s h e w a s t e x ti n g o r b l a m i n g g a m e s o r
w h a t e v e r b u t s h e h a d n o i n t e r e s t i n th is m e e ti n g a n d q u i t e r i g h t ly s o ,
a n d th e n C h a i r i t w a s n ’ t a m e e t i n g , th e m o r e I tr i e d t o . . .( in t e r v e n ti o n )
C H A I R P E R S O N : J u s t a g a i n w h o w a s a t th is m e e t i n g ?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I t w a s G e n e r a l R ia h

P h iy e g a , G e n e r a l D r a m a t, w h o w a s w i t h m e , a n d G e n e r a l M a k u b e l a w h o
is a la d y, s h e s u b s e q u e n tl y p a s s e d a w a y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s t h e P r o v i n c ia l C o m m is s io n e r w a s n o t t h e r e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
CHAIRPERSON :

S h e w a s a ls o th e r e .

S h e w a s a ls o t h e r e .

T h i s m e e t in g w a s c o n v e n e d

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
p u r s u a n t to y o u r s u g g e s t io n th e r e s h o u ld b e a r o u n d ta b le m e e ti n g .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th a t ’s r ig h t C h a ir,

y e s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, a lr i g h t. M a y b e w e w i ll ta k e t h e t e a b r e a k n o w,
a n d t h e n w e w i ll r e s u m e . L e t’s t a k e th e t e a b r e a k , it ’s tw e n t y p a s t, w e
w i ll r e s u m e a t t w e n ty f iv e t o .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : W e a d jo u r n .
I N Q U I RY A D J O U R N S
10

I N Q U I RY R E S U M E S
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s M s S e p t e m b e r y o u m a y p r o c e e d .
A D V O C AT E

VERUSHKA

CHAIRPERSON :

SEPTEMBER :

Thank

you

C h a ir.

I th in k M a j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n w a s i n t h e mi d d l e o f

h is e v i d e n c e w h e n h e h a d to a d jo u r n .

I t h i n k h e m a y p r o c e e d fr o m

there.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

It was your

e v i d e n c e t h a t y o u t h e n r e tu r n e d t o w o r k fo ll o w i n g t h e fi n d i n g o f
Advocate Nazeer Cassim?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : W e – w e w e r e d e a li n g w i t h – i f I r e c a l l c o r r e c t ly b u t I
m a y b e m is ta k e n w h a t h a p p e n e d a f t e r t h a t r o u n d t a b l e m e e t in g t h a t y o u
t a lk e d a b o u t a n d y o u r e t u r n e d t o w o r k a f te r t h a t , i s t h a t r i g h t ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d a s I u n d e r s ta n d i t y o u r e t u r n e d w i t h t h e i n te n ti o n
t o a p p ly f o r l e a v e o r f il l in l e a v e f o r m s w h ic h w o u l d h a v e to b e

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
considered by General Dramat?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y th a n k y o u .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

F o ll o w i n g

y o u r r e t u r n t o w o r k w e r e a n y – w e r e t h e r e a n y f u r th e r d is c i p l in a r y s t e p s
t a k e n a g a in s t y o u ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir w h e n I r e tu r n e d
t o w o r k I c a ll e d in th e in v e s ti g a t o r s . O b v i o u s ly I w a n t e d fe e d b a c k a s t o
h o w a l l th e s e in v e s t i g a t io n s h a d p r o c e e d e d i n th e t i m e th a t I h a d b e e n
10

o u t o f o ff ic e – s u s p e n d e d .
CHAIRPERSON :

A n d y o u h a d b e e n o u t o f o ffi c e f o r h o w l o n g b y th e

way?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

A b o u t tw o y e a r s

C h a ir, ju s t o v e r t w o y e a r s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : S o i t w a s a l o n g ti m e
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : L o n g ti m e C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o C h a ir i t w a s c l e a r
t o m e t h a t w e ll n u m b e r 1 is th e a t t e m p t to b r ib e m e b y P a n d a y a n d
20

M a d h o e b u t t h a t m a t te r h a d b e e n w i t h d r a w n b y A d v o c a te M o i p o n e
Noko.

T h e m a in c a s e , t h e R 6 0 m i l li o n c a s e , t h a t c a s e w a s n o l le

p r o s e q u i d e c li n e d t o p r o s e c u t e b y I t h i n k i t w a s A d v o c a te A b b y L e t s h o lo
fr o m th e D u r b a n o ff ic e i n s p i t e o f t h e f a c t t h a t t h e r e w a s o v e r w h e l m i n g
evidence.

C h a ir t h e r e w a s e v e n a fo r e n s ic r e p o r t w h ic h c o s t t h e ta x

p a y e r R 1 . 9 3 mi ll i o n f r o m P r ic e Wa t e r h o u s e C o o p e r a n d w h i c h t h e – it is

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
c le a r fr o m th a t r e p o r t – t h e r e w e r e a p p r o x i m a t e ly 2 0 a r c h l e v e r fi le s
a n d o v e r 2 0 0 a ff id a v i ts a n d in s p i t e o f a l l t h a t o v e r w h e l m in g e v id e n c e
A d v o c a t e L e ts h o l o d e c l i n e d t o p r o s e c u t e . T h e n t h e r e w a s t h e m a tt e r …
CHAIRPERSON : Just one second.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o r r y C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

M a y b e f o r t h e r e c o r d y o u c a n h e lp w i th t h e s p e l li n g

f o r L e ts h o l o o r y o u a r e n o t – a r e y o u n o t a b l e to ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

C h a ir I w il l h a v e t o

w r i t e i t th e n …
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : I f y o u a r e n o t a b l e t o th a t is f in e m a y b e s o m e o t h e r
ti m e s o m e b o d y w il l g iv e i t to u s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : I am going to second
g u e s s C h a ir I d o n o t t h i n k I a m g o i n g to g e t i t r i g h t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t a n y w a y y o u - y o u s a y t h e r e w a s a n in v e s ti g a t io n ,
f o r e n s ic in v e s t i g a t io n b y Pr ic e Wa te r h o u s e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

Pr ic e Wa t e r h o u s e

C o o p e r C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

A n d t h a t in v e s t ig a ti o n w o u l d h a v e b e e n

authorised during the time you were not there?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL B OOYSEN :

N o C h a ir w h a t

h a p p e n e d j u s t – ju s t b e fo r e I w a s …
CHAIRPERSON : Suspended.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL B OOYSEN :

Suspended the

in v e s t i g a t o r s to ld m e th e s c o p e o f th e i n v e s ti g a ti o n w a s o f s u c h a
n a t u r e th a t w e w o u ld h a v e t o g e t fo r e n s ic a u d it o r s i n v o lv e d a n d th e n w e

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a p p li e d t o n a ti o n a l h e a d o ffi c e a t t h e t i m e t h e n a ti o n a l c o m m is s i o n e r
w a s t h e n o w M in is t e r o f P o lic e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Mr Bheki Cele.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e a p p r o v e d i t.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

A n d t h a t p a r tic u la r

r e p o r t C h a ir S A P S w a s i n v o i c e d R 1 . 9 3 m ill io n fo r t h a t r e p o r t .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d t h e c o n c lu s i o n o f
t h a t r e p o r t w a s t h a t t h e r e w a s d e f i n i t e ly c o r r u p ti o n c o m m i t t e d b y …
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

The people that we

w e r e in v e s t i g a t in g .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . S o – b u t t h e r e w a s a d e c is i o n n o t t o p r o s e c u te
n o t w i t h s t a n d in g th a t th a t i s w h a t y o u a r e s a y i n g ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n d e e d C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . W h e n y o u r e t u r n e d t o w o r k h o w l o n g b e f o r e th a t
20

h a d th a t d e c is i o n b e e n ta k e n i f y o u a r e a b l e t o r e m e m b e r ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I …
C H A I R P E R S O N : H o w o ld w a s i t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
q u i te a l o n g t i m e b e fo r e I r e tu r n e d b a c k t o w o r k .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h o k a y, a lr i g h t .

Page 63 of 258

C h a ir I th in k i t w a s

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

I f I c a n j u s t i n t e r j e c t th e r e ?

Ye s t e r d a y w h e n w e c o n s u l t e d t h e r e w e r e c e r t a i n d o c u m e n ts t h a t w a s –
t h a t y o u r e f e r r e d t o . C h a ir i t is n o t in c l u d e d i n t h e b u n d l e b u t w i t h y o u r
le a v e i f I m a y ?
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

H a n d th e s e d o c u m e n ts u p

please?
CHAIRPERSON : What are they?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h e o n e d o c u m e n t r e l a te s t o a
10

s u b m is s io n b y A d v o c a te N o k o i n r e l a t i o n t o th e w i t h d r a w a l o f c h a r g e s i n
t h e c o r r u p ti o n m a t te r a g a i n s t M r To s h a n P a n d a y a n d C o lo n e l N a v in
Madhoe.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d t h e o th e r is a m e m o r a n d u m
– apologies.

Th e o th e r is a r e s p o n s e b y G e n e r a l B o o y s e n to t h a t

p a r t ic u l a r m e m o r a n d u m .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d t h e s e w e r e d o c u m e n ts th a t
h e c a ll e d f o r u p o n h is r e tu r n t o o ff ic e .
20

CHAIRPERSON : Thank you. Okay thank you.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

I w i ll b e g u i d e d b y y o u a s to

h o w y o u w is h t o m a r k t h e m C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

W e s h o u l d – w e c a n – m a y b e w e s h o u l d h a v e th e m

d e a lt w it h . W e s h o u l d h a v e th e m p u t s e p a r a t e ly b e c a u s e th e o n e s t h a t
y o u a lr e a d y h a v e h e r e t h e y a r e r e fe r r e d to i n h is a ffi d a v i t . Th e s e o n e s

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
are not referred to is it not?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o i t i s n o t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

S o I th in k w e w il l n e e d t o – w e h a v e g o t E x h i b i t Z A

a n d Z B , is th a t r i g h t ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d th e n …
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d i t r u n s t o Z G .
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d th e n y o u h a v e g o t Z G a s w e l l. H a v e y o u g o t t h e
o th e r a l p h a b e t s i n b e t w e e n ?
10

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Have you got C, D, E, F?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h o k a y t h e n w e s h o u ld m a k e A d v o c a t e N o k o ’s – is i t
A d v o c a t e N o k o ’s s u b m is s io n s ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

Ye s C h a ir. T h a t is t h e o n e a t

the bottom.
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t m e m o r a n d u m w e s h o u l d m a k e i t E x h i b i t Z [ H ]. H
w i ll b e i n b r a c k e ts b e c a u s e y o u h a v e p u t t h e o t h e r s in b r a c k e t s . A n d
t h e n M a j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ’s – I t h in k i t i s in t h e f o r m o f a le t t e r.
20

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

L e t t e r r e s p o n d in g o r d e a li n g w i th t h a t d a t e d 1 9

N o v e m b e r 2 0 1 4 w e w i ll m a r k th a t E x h i b i t Z [ I ] i n b r a c k e ts .

Ye s th a n k

you.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th a n k y o u C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

Th o s e a r e t h e w i t n e s s – o f t h e w i t n e s s h a v e t h e y

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b e e n m a r k e d o r n o t ? I a m s u r e h e w il l b e a b l e t o m a r k t h e m . H e h a s
d e a lt w i t h t h e s e – w i t h E x h i b i ts fo r m a n y y e a r s . Yo u u n d e r s to o d w h i c h
o n e I s a i d w o u l d b e E x h i b i t Z [H ] th a t is A d v o c a te N o k o ’s s u b m i s s io n s .
E x h i b i t Z a n d i n b r a c k e t s [ H ] a n d y o u r le t t e r i n c lu d e – w h ic h c o n t a in e d
y o u r r e s p o n s e E x h ib i t Z[ I ] a n d I w il l b e i n b r a c k e ts . T h a n k y o u .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a n k y o u C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

If I could

t h e n q u i c k ly r e f e r y o u to E x h i b i t Z[ H ] w h ic h is t h e m e m o r a n d u m th a t
10

w a s p r e p a r e d b y A d v o c a t e N o k o i n r e l a ti o n t o t h e w it h d r a w a l o f
charges.
C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t le t – b e f o r e w e g o t h e r e I j u s t w a n t c la r i fi c a t io n .
S o t h is b r ie f in g t h a t y o u a s k e d f o r fr o m t h e p e o p l e u n d e r y o u d id i t
h a p p e n b e f o r e y o u w e n t o n le a v e o r b e f o r e y o u w e n t o n l e a v e ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o i t is – a ft e r m y t w o
w e e k s l e a v e C h a ir I w e n t b a c k t o w o r k .
CHAIRPERSON : Oh okay so it was after?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A f t e r C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y ja I w a n t e d u s t o c le a r th a t p a r t a s t o w h e r e i t

20

f e ll o k a y. S o y o u r le a v e w a s – y o u w e n t b a c k t o w o r k , y o u f ill e d i n t h e
forms for leave and General Dramat approved the leave?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : That is correct Chair
a n d I – f o r th a t t w o w e e k s i n m y a b s e n c e I a p p o i n t e d B r i g a d ie r V l e k .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

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Who was the second

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m o s t s e n i o r p e r s o n a t t h e ti m e to a c t i n m y a b s e n c e f o r t h o s e t w o
weeks.
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

During the time that you had been suspended

f o r t w o y e a r s w a s t h e r e s o m e b o d y a c ti n g i n y o u r p o s i ti o n a n d i f s o w h o
was it?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL B OOYSEN :

C h a ir t h e r e w a s

B r i g a d ie r I c a n n o t r e m e m b e r h is n a m e n o w – M b o t o , B r i g a d i e r M b o t o
a c t e d in m y p l a c e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n th o s e t w o y e a r s .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

B e c a u s e I a s s u m e d t h a t w h a te v e r is s u e s y o u

w o u ld h a v e d e a l t w i th in r e g a r d t o th e s e m a tt e r s w o u l d t h e n h a v e f a ll e n
to be dealt with by him in your absence being the person who was
a c ti n g i n y o u r p o s i t io n d u r i n g t h a t t w o y e a r p e r i o d ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

C h a ir I w o u ld h a v e

e x p e c te d th a t to h a p p e n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B u t i t d id n o t h a p p e n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : I t d i d n o t h a p p e n j a . O k a y. A n d I a s s u m e y o u h a d n o
20

– y o u h a d n o h a n d i n – n o r o l e i n h is a p p o i n t m e n t a s – to a c t in y o u r
p o s i ti o n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

N o n e w h a ts o e v e r

C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

B u t g e n e r a l ly y o u w o u ld b e t h e p e r s o n

e m p o w e r e d t o a p p o i n t a p e r s o n to a c t in y o u r p o s i ti o n i f y o u w e r e a w a y

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o r w o u l d th a t b e s o m e b o d y e ls e ’s p o w e r ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

C h a ir u n d e r – C h a ir

u n d e r n o r m a l c ir c u m s ta n c e s I w o u ld h a v e b e e n – I w o u l d

appoint a

p e r s o n t o a c t in m y a b s e n c e i f I g o o n v a c a ti o n le a v e o r …
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

B u t i n t h is p a r t ic u l a r

in s t a n c e I t h i n k w e ll o n c e y o u a r e s u s p e n d e d y o u d o n o t h a v e a n y s a y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Ye s . O k a y t h a n k y o u .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :
10

General Booysen it was your

e v i d e n c e t h a t w h e n y o u r e tu r n e d t o o ff ic e y o u c a ll e d f o r a r e p o r ti n g o n
t h e s t a tu s o f i n v e s t ig a t io n s ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I f y o u c o u l d lo o k a t Ex h ib i t Z [ H ]
w h ic h is t h e m e m o r a n d u m p r e p a r e d b y A d v o c a t e N o k o d a t e d t h e 2 1
O c t o b e r 2 0 1 4 . I s t h i s a m e m o r a n d u m t h a t w a s p l a c e d b e fo r e y o u w h e n
c a l li n g f o r a s t a t u s u p d a t e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

T h is w a s o n e o f th e

d o c u m e n ts th a t w a s p la c e d b e fo r e m e C h a ir w h e n I w a n t e d a n u p d a t e
fr o m t h e in v e s t i g a t o r s a s t o h o w t h e …
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A f t e r c o n s id e r in g t h i s p a r t ic u l a r
d o c u m e n t i t is u n d e r s t o o d th a t y o u t h e n p r e p a r e d Ex h i b it Z [ I ] ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I d i d C h a ir.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d t h a t le t t e r u n d e r y o u r h a n d
is d a t e d 1 9 N o v e m b e r 2 0 1 4 .

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y. C a n y o u p l e a s e e x p l a i n
t h e b a s is o f y o u r l e t te r a n d t h e o b je c ti o n s t h a t y o u h a d t a k e n a s
d o c u m e n t e d i n y o u r le t t e r ?
CHAIRPERSON:

Maybe let us start with this.

Do you want to in

r e l a ti o n t o E x h i b i t Z[ H ] t h a t is t h e m e m o r a n d u m b y A d v o c a t e N o k o , d o
y o u w a n t t o h i g h l ig h t a n y p a r t ic u l a r fis s u r e s o f h e r s u b m is s io n s t h a t
y o u t h in k a r e i m p o r ta n t th a t m a y h a v e s tr u c k y o u , th a t m a y – y o u m a y
h a v e d e c i d e d s h o u l d b e d e a lt w i t h i n o n e w a y o r a n o th e r ?
10

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir t h e g e n e r a l g is t
o f A d v o c a t e N o k o ’s r e p o r t i f I c a n s u m m a r i s e i t ?
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

I t l o o k s lik e it w a s

w r i t t e n b y a d e f e n c e a t to r n e y r a th e r t h a n a p r o s e c u t o r f o r t h e s ta t e .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

It is as if she has

lo o k e d a t a n y p o s s i b l e e x c u s e a n d s o m e o f t h e s t u ff s h e b a s i c a ll y m a d e
up. I mean that is why I say in one of my – paragraph 2
“ As s e r ti o n s a r e i n – a n a b e r r a ti o n w h ic h l a c k s
s u b s t a n c e s u p p o r t e d b y c r e d ib l e e v i d e n c e . ”

20

S o m e o f t h e m a r e b l a t a n t u n tr u t h s t h a t s h e p l a c e d o n r e c o r d i n th e
report.
MAJOR

GENERAL

JOHAN

WESSEL

BOOYSEN :

And

that

was

p a r a g r a p h 2 o f E x h i b i t Z [I ] w h ic h i s y o u r le t te r ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h a t is p a r a g r a p h 2 o f

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m y l e tt e r C h a ir.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th a n k y o u .
CHAIRPERSON :

W e ll M s S e p t e m b e r i t i s i m p o r t a n t t o d e a l w i t h th e

g is t o f t h e s u b m is s i o n s b y A d v o c a t e N o k o a n d a t l e a s t th e g i s t o f t h e –
o f M a j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ’s r e s p o n s e .

S o m e b o d y li s t e n i n g n e e d s t o

k n o w w h a t i t w a s a b o u t , w h a t w a s i ts p u r p o s e a n d t o t h e e x t e n t th a t
s h e w a s – s h e m a y h a v e b e e n s a y i n g th e w i t h d r a w a l o f t h e c h a r g e s w a s
ju s t i fi e d o r t h e c h a r g e s s h o u ld b e w i t h d r a w n f o r t h i s a n d t h a t r e a s o n .
A t l e a s t t h e i m p o r t a n t fi s s u r e s m u s t b e d e a l t w i t h s o s o m e b o d y
10

lis t e n i n g c a n fo ll o w.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o
CHAIRPERSON :

And then the response what Major General Booysen

may have said about some of those reasons.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o p r o b le m C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : E v e n i f i t is n o t e v e r y t h in g .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

N o p r o b l e m C h a ir.

The

r e s p o n s e t h a t w a s p r e p a r e d b y G e n e r a l B o o y s e n is q u i t e s p e c i f ic to t h e
p a r a g r a p h r e f e r e n c e d i n A d v o c a t e N o k o ’s s u b m i s s i o n s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d i f w i th y o u r l e a v e
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I f I m a y th e n ta k e h i m t h r o u g h
t h e p o i n t s a s h e r e f e r e n c e d i t?
CHAIRPERSON : Ja but not…
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d h is o b je c ti o n s t o i t .

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : N o t n e c e s s a r il y e v e r y th in g , t h e i m p o r t a n t p o in t s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y. G e n e r a l B o o y s e n …
C H A I R P E R S O N : O r m a y b e h e h a s n o t h a d b o th y o u a n d h i m h e h a v e
n o t h a d ti m e t o l o o k a t t h e i m p o r ta n t o n e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL B OOYSEN :

C h a ir a l l th o s e

paragraphs are…
CHAIRPERSON : Are quite important.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

Are quite important

b e c a u s e i t is e v i d e n t .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR

GENERAL

JOHAN

WESSEL

BOOYSEN :

Fr o m

N o k o ’s

m e m o r a n d u m t h a t t h is i s a c o n t r iv e d d o c u m e n t .
CHAIRPERSON :

Let us deal with them.

Let us deal with everything

b e c a u s e i t is – it m a y b e q u i t e a n i m p o r t a n t is s u e s o l e t u s h e a r – l e t
u s d e a l w i t h t h e s u b m i s s io n s f r o m A d v o c a t e N o k o a n d t h e n w e w i ll d e a l
w i t h – le t u s d e a l w i t h th e m f u l ly, i t i s o k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A s it p le a s e s C h a ir. I f w e c o u l d
t h e n l o o k a t th e d o c u m e n t s s i m u l t a n e o u s l y. Yo u r f ir s t is s u e a s ta k e n in
p a r a g r a p h 3 o f y o u r l e t te r r e la t e s t o p a r a g r a p h 2 . 3 .
20

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : W e l l m a y b e – s o r r y m a y b e b e f o r e w e d o th a t . I th in k
in p a r a g r a p h 1 s h e i n d i c a t e s – I u n d e r s ta n d s h e – i t is a la d y, is t h a t
r ig h t ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON:

Ye s .

S h e i n d ic a te s w h a t t h is d o c u m e n t – w h a t t h e

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
p u r p o s e o f t h e d o c u m e n t is . S h e s a y s :
“ I h a d p r e v io u s ly p r o v is i o n a ll y w i t h d r a w n t h is m a t t e r
o n t h e b a s i s t h a t t h e r e w e r e c o n s id e r a ti o n s o f j u s tic e
t h a t I h a d t o lo o k i n to i n o r d e r t o a r r iv e a t a p r o p e r
d e c is i o n t h a t is in t h e i n te r e s t o f j u s t ic e . T h e s e h a v e
b e e n s o l o o k e d in t o a n d m y d e c is io n is in d ic a t e d
h e r e u n d e r w i t h s u b s ta n ti a ti o n .”
S o s h e h a d w i th d r a w n – s h e h a d p r o v is i o n a l ly w i th d r a w n th e m a t te r a n d
s h e h a d s a id s o a c c o r d i n g to t h is th a t s h e n e e d e d t o lo o k in t o c e r t a in
10

c o n s i d e r a ti o n s o f j u s t ic e . S h e n o w s a y s :
“ I h a v e h a d a c h a n c e to d o s o .”
A n d t h e n s h e s a y s h e r d e c is i o n i s i n d i c a t e d h e r e u n d e r a n d s h e s a y s
s h e i s g iv in g s u b s t a n t i a t i o n f o r h e r d e c i s io n . W h a t w a s h e r d e c is i o n
t h a t s h e g iv e s h e r e u n d e r y o u w o u ld h a v e k n o w n b e c a u s e y o u k n o w th e
matter?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
respond to that.

C h a ir i f I c a n j u s t

S h e c o n fi r ms w h y t h e c a s e a g a in s t P a n d a y a n d

M a d h o e w a s w i t h d r a w n th e a t t e m p t t o b r i b e m e . T h e n t h e y g o i n t o th e
m a in c a s e , t h e R 0 m il li o n c a s e a s to w h y th e r e w a s g o i n g t o b e n o
20

p r o s e c u t i o n . B u t w h a t s h e d o e s n o t s a y i n t h i s r e p o r t o f h e r s is a f te r
s h e in i ti a l ly w i t h d r e w th e c h a r g e s a g a in s t P a n d a y a n d M a d h o e t h e
in v e s t i g a t o r s r e p o r te d t o m e a n d th a t c a r r ie d o n f o r a l m o s t s ix m o n t h s
t h a t s h e r e f u s e d t o r e tu r n th e d o c k e t t o th e m .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m. But – but the mem orandum I have not read the
m e m o r a n d u m s o I t h in k i n c a s e y o u h a v e r e a d i t. I n th e m e m o r a n d u m

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
d o e s s h e c o n f ir m t h e d e c is i o n t o w i t h d r a w t h e c h a r g e s ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Is that right?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

S o th e r e a s o n t h e s u b s t a n t ia t io n t h a t s h e i s ta lk in g

a b o u t t h e r e f o r e m e a n s s h e i s g i v i n g r e a s o n s t o ju s ti fy h e r d e c is io n t o
w i t h d r a w th e c h a r g e s ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

T h a t i s th e c a s e

C h a ir.
10

CHAIRPERSON : Against Panday and
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And Madhoe.
CHAIRPERSON :

And Madhoe.

Ye s o k a y I t h i n k th a t is w h e r e y o u –

t h e n e v e r y o n e u n d e r s t a n d s w h il e l o o k in g a t t h e r e a s o n s w h a t r e a s o n s
d i d s h e g i v e f o r th e d e c is i o n t o w i th d r a w. O k a y d e a l w i th t h a t .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

Fo r t h e b e n e fi t o f t h o s e

lis t e n i n g p a r a g r a p h 3 o f y o u r l e tt e r o r r a th e r le t m e s t a r t m e o ff b y
s a y in g p a r a g r a p h 2 o f y o u r l e t te r m a k e s a g e n e r a l s ta t e m e n t to s a y t h a t
it –
“ T h i s m is s i v e fr o m A d v o c a t e N o k o is r a t h e r v e r b o s e
20

it

is

permeated

in a c c u r a c i e s
u n tr u t h s .

and

w it h
in

c o n je c tu r e ,

certain

innuendo,

in s ta n c e s

b l a ta n t

T h e a s s e r ti o n s a r e a n a b e r r a ti o n w h ic h

la c k s s u b s ta n c e s u p p o r t e d b y c r e d ib l e e v i d e n c e .”
CHAIRPERSON :

N o M s S e p t e m b e r – n o M s S e p t e m b e r.

Let us hear

w h a t t h e r e a s o n s a r e t h a t s h e g i v e s fir s t t h e n w e c a n g o t o G e n e r a l

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
B o o y s e n ’s c r i ti q u e o f t h a t i f n e c e s s a r y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

W o u l d y o u lik e m e t o a d d r e s s

a l l o f t h e r e a s o n s a n d n o t j u s t t h o s e t h a t h e o b j e c t e d to o r t o o k i s s u e
with?
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a w e l l l e t u s d o t h a t . T h is m i g h t b e v e r y i m p o r t a n t.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

O k a y.

W i t h y o u r le a v e t h e n

C h a ir i t is q u i te a t e c h n ic a l d o c u m e n t . C o u ld I t h e n r e a d t h e p a r a g r a p h s
a s i n d i c a t e d i n to t h e r e c o r d ? G e n e r a l B o o y s e n d o e s r a is e is s u e s w it h
v e r y s p e c i f ic p a r a g r a p h s a n d n o t a l l o f t h e m b u t I a m g u i d e d b y y o u r
10

d ir e c t io n C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : I f i t i s p o s s i b l e t h e n w e – m a y b e w e n e e d t o s k i p t h is
p a r t . M a y b e d u r in g t h e lu n c h b r e a k h a v e a lo o k p r o p e r l y a t t h e – a t t h e
– a t t h e s e t w o d o c u m e n ts a n d t h e n a f t e r l u n c h l e t u s – le t u s d e a l w it h
t h e s e p r o p e r ly.

I a m s u r e y o u w i ll f in d a w a y th a t w e d e a l w i th t h e m

w i t h o u t r e a d in g th e m .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o p r o b le m C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

Okay because maybe you have not had enough time

t o l o o k a t th e m .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o p r o b le m C h a ir.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. S o l e t u s r e t u r n t o th a t p a r t a f te r l u n c h . I th in k
t o t h e e x t e n t n e c e s s a r y w e – y o u m a y j u s t b e a b le t o s a y t h e r e w e r e –
t h e r e w a s th a t s u b m is s i o n b y A d v o c a t e N o k o a n d M a j o r G e n e r a l
B o o y s e n h a v i n g r e a d it w a s u n h a p p y w i t h th e r e a s o n s g iv e n a n d h e
g a v e h i s c o m m e n t s i n t h i s s u b m is s i o n t h a t w e w il l d e a l w i th l a t e r a n d
then procee d.

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A s i t p l e a s e s C h a ir. W it h y o u r
d ir e c t io n w e w i ll t h e n d e a l w it h th a t – t h e s u b m i s s i o n s a n d l e t te r.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A t a l a te r s t a g e .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A f t e r l u n c h .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :
to work.
10

Yo u g o o n l e a v e .

G eneral Booysen you returned

W e r e t h e r e a n y s u b s e q u e n t d is c i p l in a r y

s t e p s th a t w e r e ta k e n a g a i n s t y o u fo ll o w i n g y o u r r e t u r n t o w o r k ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

C h a ir p e r h a p s I

s h o u l d j u s t c o n t e x t u a li s e m y r e s p o n s e to A d v o c a te N o k o .
C H A I R P E R S O N : To t h a t q u e s ti o n .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : Because that is what
n o w l e d to …
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

Another – further

suspension.
CHAIRPERSON:
20

Ye s .

S o i t – i f y o u d e a l w i t h i t w i th o u t d e a li n g w it h

t h is ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : I t ta k e s a w a y th e c o n te x t ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : I t ta k e s a w a y th e c o n te x t .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I –

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

I can just perhaps

summarise that I…
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s b u t le t m e j u s t s a y w h a t I a m l o o k i n g f o r. I w a n t
t o b e t o ld t h e s e w e r e t h e r e a s o n s g iv e n b y A d v o c a t e N o k o fo r t h e
d e c is i o n t o w i th d r a w a , b , c , d . o k a y ? Th e n b e c a u s e y o u r e s p o n d e d to
t h a t y o u t h e n s a y i n r e g a r d t o a , I d i d n o t h a v e a p r o b l e m , b I d id n o t
h a v e a p r o b l e m b u t I h a d a p r o b l e m w i th c , d a n d e . A n d m y p r o b l e m
w i t h c , d a n d e w e r e th e f o l lo w i n g b a n g , b a n g , b a n g . Th a t i s t h e k i n d o f
10

t h i n g I a m lo o k i n g f o r.

I h a v e n o t r e a d th is b e c a u s e t h e y o n ly g o t

h a n d e d u p n o w s o I a m n o t a b l e t o a s s i s t – t o a s s is t . I f y o u a r e a b l e t o
d o i t t h a t w a y d o it t h a t w a y. I f y o u a r e u n a b l e w e m a y h a v e t o r e a d
t h e m y o u k n o w t h r o u g h o u t t h e – a ll t h e p a g e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

C h a ir I w il l a t t e m p t

during the lunch break to do as you request.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL B OOYSEN :

But I think for

p u r p o s e s o f a n s w e r i n g t h e q u e s ti o n s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O f c o n ti n u i n g y o u n e e d t o s a y s o m e th i n g .
20

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h i s – I w r o t e th is to
t h e n e w ly a p p o i n te d n a t io n a l d ir e c t o r o f p u b l ic p r o s e c u t io n s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Advocate Nxasana.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y y e s . A ls o y o u r e x h i b i t th e Ex h ib i t Z [ I ] w a s –
w a s d ir e c te d a t M r N x a s a n a ?

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s t h e c a s e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s h e w a s th e n e w N D P P a t th e ti m e .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Okay yes.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

I t h e n a ls o w e n t t o

G e n e r a l D r a m a t a n d I t o ld h i m t h a t I h a d w r it t e n t h is .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

T h is r e p o r t a n d h e

s a i d t o m e h e h a d a ls o w r i t te n a r e p o r t t o M r N x a s a n a .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

U n d e r v e r y s i m il a r

li n e s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A n d t h e p u r p o s e o f y o u r l e t te r w h ic h c o n t a i n e d
y o u r v ie w s o n t h e N o k o s u b m i s s io n th e p u r p o s e w a s t o g e t t h a t
d e c is i o n r e v e r s e d , is t h a t r i g h t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

That was – that was

t h e – my p o s i t io n C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : That was your – yes okay continue.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :
20

S o C h a ir a n d a ls o a t

t h e v e r y s a m e ti m e I r e c e iv e d a p h o n e c a ll f r o m t h e h e a d o f I C D t h e n
I P I D n o w t h e In d e p e n d e n t P o lic e I n v e s ti g a ti v e D ir e c to r a t e a M r M c Br id e
and he asked me what was going on and I gave him a report.

And

b e c a u s e o f t h i s a n d t h e r e a s o n – a l s o th e r e p o r t b y D r a m a t a n d
M c Br i d e I d o n o t k n o w w h e t h e r M c Br id e w r o te a l e tt e r t o Mr N x a s a n a o r
w h e t h e r h e p a id h i m a v is i t b u t n e v e r t h e l e s s I w a s t h e n a s k e d m y s e l f

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
a n d t h e a c c o u n ta n t fo r P r ic e Wa te r h o u s e C o o p e r to c o m e t o n a t io n a l
h e a d o ffi c e w h e r e w e d id a p r e s e n t a ti o n t o A d v o c a t e s fr o m t h a t – th a t
A d v o c a t e N x a s a n a h a d a p p o i n te d t o r e l o o k – h a v e a n o th e r l o o k a t
t h e s e c a s e s th a t e i t h e r h a d b e e n w i t h d r a w n o r n o l l e p r e s e q u i .

A

s p e c i f ic a d v o c a t e w a s a p p o i n t e d . A t t h e ti m e i t w a s A d v o c a te G e r r i e
Nel.

H e h a d s t a r te d i n t e r v ie w i n g w i tn e s s e s .

H e h a d v is i t e d s o m e o f

t h e w i tn e s s e s i n K Z N a n d w e w e r e a b o u t t o e m b a r k u p o n b a s ic a ll y
p r o s e c u t i n g t h e m a jo r i ty o f t h e p e o p le m e n ti o n e d i n t h i s i n v e s t ig a ti o n s .
T h e n i t w a s a ft e r t h e a p p o i n t m e n t o f t h e – M r – w e ll M a j o r G e n e r a l
10

B e r n i n g N t le m e z a h e w a s t h e n a p p o i n te d h e a d o f t h e H a w k s .

After

Dramat had been …
CHAIRPERSON:

O h o k a y l e t u s g e t t h e s e q u e n c e c o r r e c t ly.

Yo u

r e tu r n e d t o w o r k a f te r t h e t w o w e e k s l e a v e . Yo u g e t b r i e f e d o n m a t te r s
t h a t w e r e o n g o i n g w h e n y o u w e r e s u s p e n d e d a n d in r e g a r d t o th e
P a n d a y, M a d h o e m a t t e r y o u g e t – y o u g e t f u r n is h e d w it h A d v o c a te
N o k o ’s s u b m is s io n s a s t o w h y i t w a s j u s ti f ie d t o w i t h d r a w th e c h a r g e s .
Yo u p r e p a r e c o m m e n t o n th a t t h e p u r p o s e o f w h ic h w a s t o h a v e th a t
d e c is i o n r e v e r s e d s o t h a t th e p r o s e c u ti o n c o u l d p r o c e e d a g a in s t M r
P a n d a y a n d C o l o n e l M a d h o e . A n d a t t h a t t i m e G e n e r a l D r a m a t w a s s t ill
20

the head of the Hawks when you …
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t l e t te r.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s b u t a f te r t h a t – a f te r s o m e t i m e s h e w a s – h e w a s
s u s p e n d e d o r r e m o v e d o r h e l e f t, is th a t c o r r e c t .

Page 78 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o C h a ir t h i s is – t h is
is w h e r e t h i n g s g e t c o m p li c a t e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

B e c a u s e in th a t

D e c e m b e r I t h i n k i t w a s t h e 2 4 D e c e m b e r j u s t p r i o r to t h a t …
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d ju s t m e n ti o n t h e y e a r s a s w e l l b e c a u s e t h e r e a r e
too many years we are dealing with here.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir s o i t w a s 2 0 1 4 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

Ja 2014.

r e tu r n e d to w o r k g iv in g t h e r e p o r ts , w r i t te n t h e s e r e p o r ts .

S o I ju s t
In that

in t e r i m p e r i o d I c a n n o t r e c a ll t h e e x a c t d a te s t h e r e i s a n o th e r S u n d a y
Ti m e s a r t ic le th a t a p p e a r e d b y th e s a m e t w o j o u r n a li s ts H o fs t a t t e r a n d
Wa A fr k a .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

A c c u s in g G e n e r a l

D r a m a t a n d G e n e r a l S h a d r a c k S a b iy a a n d t h e r e w a s a n o th e r c o lo n e l I
c a n n o t r e c a l l h i s n a m e I t h i n k i t w a s K u m a lo I a m n o t t o o s u r e a c c u s in g
t h e m o f s o c a l le d r e n d i ti o n .
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JO HAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : They were accused of
e x tr a d i ti n g Z i m b a b w e a n s w i t h o u t e x tr a d it io n p a p e r s .

And that is

a n o t h e r c h a p te r C h a ir w h ic h I w il l w il l …
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

Page 79 of 258

I w i ll t a l k to a b i t

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
la t e r. T h e n D r a m a t g o t s u s p e n d e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :

In December that

y e a r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d i m m e d i a te ly w h e n
a ft e r h e w a s s u s p e n d e d t h e y a p p o in t e d a s a c t in g h e a d o f th e H a w k s
M a jo r G e n e r a l B e r n i n g N t l e m e z a .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e a c t e d fo r a p e r i o d
o f t i m e a n d t h e n i n th a t p e r i o d D r a m a t a g r e e d w i t h S A P S t o l e a v e S A P S
o n a s p e c ia l d is p e n s a ti o n .

A n d th e n t h e p o s t fo r h e a d o f t h e H a w k s

w a s a d v e r t is e d . I a p p li e d f o r t h a t. M y s e l f a n d t h r e e o t h e r s w e r e s h o r t
lis t e d f o r t h a t p o s t . W e w e r e fl o w n d o w n t o th e t h e n M i n is t e r o f P o l ic e
M r N a th i N h l e k o ’s o ffic e a t P a r li a m e n t t o b e i n t e r v ie w e d f o r t h e p o s t .
N tl e m e z a w a s n o t t h e r e . I t w a s m y s e l f , t w o l a d i e s a n d a g e n t le m a n .
CHAIRPERSON: H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

W e c o m p le t e d o u r

in t e r v ie w s o n t h e d a y a n d a m o n th o r t w o l a te r N tl e m e z a w a s a p p o i n te d
20

a s th e h e a d o f th e H a w k s .
CHAIRPERSON :

D o y o u k n o w w h e th e r h e w a s a n a p p li c a n t fo r t h e

p o s i ti o n a t t h e ti m e y o u w e r e in t e r v i e w e d ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I d o n o t k n o w.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

Page 80 of 258

B e c a u s e n o r m a lly

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
w h a t h e w o u l d s a y i n p u b li c a n d w h a t a c t u a ll y h a p p e n e d w e r e tw o
d i ff e r e n t t h i n g s .

W h a t I d o k n o w is in a n o p e n m e e t in g i n P o l o k w a n e

t h e m e e ti n g w i th a l l t h e p r o v i n c ia l h e a d s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

A n d o t h e r s e n io r

m a n a g e r s fr o m t h e H a w k s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

H e s a i d th a t h e d i d

n o t a p p ly fo r t h e p o s t .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t i s N tl e m e z a ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

N t l e m e z a s a id t h a t

p e r s o n a l ly a t a m e e ti n g a t P o l o k w a n e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

N o w w h e th e r h e ju s t

said that and applied or not I do not know b ut that is what he said.
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t is w h a t h e s a i d y e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

But

he

was

not

p r e s e n t o n t h e d a y th a t th e fo u r o f u s w e r e i n t e r v ie w e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And whether he had

a p p li e d a n d w h e t h e r t h e y h a d a s e p a r a t e s e s s io n w i t h h i m I d o n o t
k n o w.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u d o n o t k n o w j a , y e s . O k a y, b u t y o u s a y a b o u t a
m o n th a f te r t h a t in t e r v i e w.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 81 of 258

I would say about a

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m o n th o r t w o C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A b o u t a m o n t h o f tw o h e w a s a p p o i n t e d ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e w a s a p p o in t e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir

and

the

[i n t e r v e n e s ] .
CHAIRPERSON : But all the other people that as far as you knew had
a p p li e d a n d y o u d o n o t k n o w w h e t h e r h e h a d a p p li e d o r n o t w e r e t h e r e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

They

were

th e r e

C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O n t h e d a y o f t h e i n te r v i e w s ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h e r e w e r e fo u r o f u s
t h e r e C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y. T h a n k y o u .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: So.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

S o M a j o r - G e n e r a l B e r n i n g N tl e m e z a

w a s i n o ff ic e a n d w e r e a n y s t e p s th e n ta k e n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

C h a ir w i t h i n I w o u l d

s a y a w e e k a f t e r h is – h is p e r m a n e n t a p p o i n t m e n t a s H e a d o f th e
H a w k s I r e c e iv e d a n o t h e r n o ti c e o f i n te n ti o n t o s u s p e n d m e .
CHAIRPERSON :

O k a y.

Let

us

a ls o

ju s t

get

c l a r i fic a ti o n .

G e n e r a l D r a m a t g o t s u s p e n d e d a n d G e n e r a l N tl e m e z a w a s a p p o i n t e d t o
a c t in h is p o s i t io n . H o w l o n g d i d h e – f o r h o w l o n g d i d h e a c t b e f o r e h e
w a s p e r m a n e n t ly a p p o i n te d a s – i f y o u a r e a b l e t o r e m e m b e r ?

Page 82 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I t h i n k h e w a s –
h e s t a r t e d a c t in g I t h in k i t w a s o n C h r i s t m a s D a y 2 0 1 4 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And I think he was

a p p o i n t e d p e r m a n e n tl y p e r h a p s in J u ly th e fo ll o w i n g y e a r.
CHAIRPERSON : 2015.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

G iv e o r t a k e a m o n t h

o r tw o .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . O h , o k a y. S o I j u s t w a n t e d t o g e t a t i m e fr a m e ,
10

yes.

O k a y.

Yo u s a y w i t h i n a w e e k o r s o a f t e r h e w a s p e r m a n e n t ly

a p p o i n t e d y o u g o t a n o t ic e fr o m h i m a s k in g y o u fo r r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s w h y
you should not be suspended?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : O n c e a g a in C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Once – yes and – and what was your response?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W e l l C h a ir t h is t i m e

a r o u n d h e - h e a c c u s e d m e o f c o m m i t t in g f r a u d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
in t e r e s ti n g
20

more

or

le s s

at

th e

same

time

And
he

a ls o

what

is

accused

G e n e r a l S h a d r a c k S i b i y a o f c o m m i t ti n g fr a u d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

H e w a s e v e n t u a l ly

prosecuted and.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A c q u i tt e d .

Page 83 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n m y m a tt e r I w r o t e a
le t t e r – w e ll in m y p r e s e n t a ti o n I t h i n k .
C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y. L e t u s - w a s fr a u d t h e o n ly t h in g th a t w a s
t h e b a s i s o f th e n o t ic e ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, a lr ig h t .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e fr a u d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : W h a t – w h a t d id h e s a y t h e fr a u d w a s a b o u t ?
10

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e fr a u d r e l a te d to a
m o n e t a r y a w a r d C h a i r t h a t w a s w r it t e n b y t h e C o m m a n d e r o f C a t o
M a n o r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

F o r w o r k d o n e b y h is

members.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n th e in v e s ti g a t io n o f
t h e k il li n g o f C o lo n e l C h o n c o .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
one

of

the

s u s p e c ts

th a t

was

sought

Th e k i ll in g o f C h o n c o
by

C a to

Manor

Magojela Ndimande.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : They were looking for
him and they could not trace him.

Page 84 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I r e c e i v e d in f o r m a t io n
fr o m a n in f o r m e r t h a t h e w a s o n h is w a y t o P ie t e r m a r i tz b u r g .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I c o n v e y e d th a t t o

C a t o M a n o r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e y g o t h o l d o f th e

s u r v e il la n c e u n i t t o m a n a g e t o tr a c k d o w n M a g o j e la N d i m a n d e .
10

The

s u r v e il la n c e u n i t t h e n i n f o r m e d C a to M a n o r t h a t h e w a s o n t h e f r e e w a y.
Subsequent to that there was a chase on the freeway where – whereby
M a g o j e l a w a s s h o t a n d k i ll e d a n d h is .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

He had a bodyguard

with an AK47.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W h o w a s a ls o s h o t

a n d k il le d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S o my r o le p l a y e d i n

t h e tr a c in g o f M a g o j e l a w a s d e ta il e d i n th a t r e p o r t .
CHAIRPERSON: Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A

number

d e t e c t iv e s a n d I w ill g u e s s p r o b a b ly a b o u t 1 8 t o 2 0 d e t e c ti v e s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.

Page 85 of 258

of

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h a t g e t a R 1 0 0 0 0 ,0 0
monetary award.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Somewhere in the – in
t h e r e p o r t t h e r e is a w r o n g d a t e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: So.
C H A I R P E R S O N : W h a t k in d o f a w a r d w o u ld t h a t b e ? W h a t w a s i t f o r ?
Is i t a p e r f o r m a n c e ?
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Hm.
CHAIRPERSON : Bonus or what is it?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir i t i s n o t r e a l ly a
performance bonus.

I t is – p o l ic e r e g u l a ti o n s m a k e p r o v is i o n w h e r e

p o li c e o ffi c e r s d i d e x c e p ti o n a l w o r k .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

That they

can

be

a w a r d e d w i t h a c e r t i fic a t e o r a m e d a l o r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h , o k a y – o k a y.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : O r a m o n e ta r y a w a r d .
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : U p to – I t h in k – i t is
R30 000,00.
C H A I R P E R S O N : S o it w a s a m o n e t a r y a w a r d c o n n e c te d w i th e x c e l l e n t
p e r f o r m a n c e o f t h e ir d u t i e s ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.

Page 86 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : O n th a t p a r ti c u l a r p o i n t if I c a n t a k e
y o u B u n d le Z G w h ic h i s t h e M o k g o r o R e p o r t a t p a g e 1 0 8 .

Under sub

p a r a g r a p h 5 .2 . 1 .7 w h i c h is ti tl e d “ M o n e t a r y R e w a r d ” i t i s d e a l t w i th fr o m
p a r a g r a p h s 3 3 1 to 3 3 7 o n t h e n e x t p a g e . Is t h a t t h e m o n e t a r y r e w a r d
that you were referring to?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

That is

the

same

m o n e t a r y a w a r d t h a t t h a t J u d g e M o k g o r o r e fe r s t o C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : H e m u s t s t il l te ll u s w h a t h e w a s s t il l te ll i n g u s a b o u t
10

t h is , j a .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : So the members of SAPS were said to have cl aimed –
p u t in c l a i m s fo r a m o n e t a r y a w a r d ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir it is n o t a c l a i m .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t i s a n a p p l ic a ti o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : It is a n a p p lic a ti o n .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

In terms of those

r e g u la t io n s .
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W h ic h is d o n e b y t h e

U n i t C o m m a n d e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

So

th e

Unit

C o m m a n d e r d e t a i le d t h e n a m e s o f p e o p l e w h o h a d b e e n p a r t o f t h i s

Page 87 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
in v e s t i g a t io n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And he sent that to

m e b u t m y – a n d t h e p r o c e s s is I w o u l d s e n d t h a t t o my s u p e r i o r.
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

H e w il l s e n d t o th e

P r o v i n c ia l C o m m i s s io n e r w h o w a s G e n e r a l ( in d is ti n c t) .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

He has a committee

t h a t s i ts o n i t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

He

e v e n t u a l ly

a p p r o v e s . It g o e s t o N a t io n a l H e a d O ffi c e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Where

D e p u ty

N a t io n a l C o m m is s i o n e r s – m o r e t h a n o n e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S i ts o n a p a n e l a n d

t h e n th e y w i ll e v e n t u a l ly a g r e e o r d is a g r e e .
20

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d in t h i s p a r t ic u l a r

in s t a n c e t h e y a g r e e d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
u s w i t h a R 1 0 0 0 0 , 0 0 o n c e o ff p a y m e n t .

Page 88 of 258

And awarded each of

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Aw a r d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

The

p r o b le m

a c c o r d i n g t o N tl e m e z a w a s t h a t t h e r e w a s a d a te t h a t w a s w r o n g .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

B u t if y o u r e a d th e

t h i n g s s e q u e n t ia ll y i t is c l e a r t h a t i t is a t y p o g r a p h ic a l e r r o r.
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I w r o te a d e t a i le d

r e p o r t a n d I s a i d to h i m i t i s c l e a r f r o m t h a t i t i s a ty p o g r a p h ic a l e r r o r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d I a c tu a lly p o i n te d
o u t a n d h is n o t ic e o f in t e n t i o n t o s u s p e n d m e – h e h a s a ls o m a d e
s i m il a r m is t a k e s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d in s p i t e o f – o f a
detailed report he nevertheless suspended me.
CHAIRPERSON :
20

B u t a r e y o u s a y i n g t h a t – w a s th e p o s i t io n t h a t

G e n e r a l N tl e m e z a s a i d i n e ff e c t y o u s h o u ld b e c h a r g e d f o r o r h e s a id
t h a t y o u s h o u ld m a k e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s w h y y o u s h o u ld n o t b e s u s p e n d e d
o n t h e b a s is t h a t y o u m a y h a v e c o m m i t te d fr a u d a n d t h e f r a u d th a t h e
w a s ta lk in g a b o u t w a s b a s e d o n t h e f a c t t h a t a c e r t a i n d a te h a d b e e n
g iv e n i n th e d o c u m e n t th a t y o u h a d s i g n e d . Is t h a t r i g h t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 89 of 258

No, I did not.

C h a ir

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h a t i s j u s t th e p o in t . I n e v e r s ig n e d t h e d o c u m e n t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h , y o u n e v e r s i g n e d i t ? O k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Because

I

was

a

p o s s i b le r e c i p i e n t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I

d id

not

feel

comfortable signing that document.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Recommending.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

F o r m y s e l f a lt h o u g h

w h e n I s e n d i t t o m y s u p e r i o r I r e c o m m e n d e d t h a t th e p e o p le i n t h a t
report.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Be awarded.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

But

I

d e l e te d

my

name.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A t t h e b o tt o m .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And

I

put

th e

G e n e r a l B r o w n ’s n a m e t h e r e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e th e n d e a l t w i t h th e

Page 90 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m a t t e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : He recommended to.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

The

P r o v i n c ia l

C o m m i s s i o n e r.
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s b u t w h a t w a s a c c o r d i n g t o G e n e r a l N t l e m e z a ’s

le t t e r w h a t a s s o c i a te d y o u w i th t h a t d a t e t h a t y o u s a y w a s w r o n g ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

A b s o l u t e ly

n o t h in g

C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d h is le t t e r d i d n o t i n d ic a t e w h a t y o u h a d to d o w it h
t h e p u t – w i th p u tt i n g in t h a t d a t e ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir in .
C H A I R P E R S O N : D i d h e a c c u s e y o u o f h a v in g g iv e n ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e w r o n g in f o r m a t io n o r s o m e t h i n g ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Maybe if I can explain
it t h is w a y. I t o o k t h a t d e c is i o n t o s u s p e n d m e o n r e v ie w a s w e ll .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.

20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d i n – t h i s ti m e t o

the High Court.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d t h e J u d g e o n th a t
m a t t e r - I t h i n k it w a s J u d g e Va n Z y l .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.

Page 91 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e r u le d t h a t t h e r e is
– t h e r e is n o t a n i n d ic a ti o n o f a n o ffe n c e b e i n g c o m m i t t e d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Let

alone

by

th e

a p p lic a n t.
CHAIRPERSON :

Hm.

Anyway

you

made

r e p r e s e n ta t io n s

to

M r N t le m e z a s a y i n g a m o n g o t h e r th in g s t h is is - i t is c le a r w h e n y o u
r e a d th e d o c u m e n t t h a t t h i s is a ty p o g r a p h ic a l e r r o r a n d y o u s a y
d e s p i te t h a t h e s ti ll s u s p e n d e d y o u ?
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I a ls o t o l d h i m i n m y

r e p r e s e n t a ti o n C h a i r t h a t w h a t h e is s a y in g in h is n o ti c e o f i n te n ti o n t o
suspend.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t h e is a c t u a l ly

m is r e p r e s e n t in g f a c ts .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t c o u ld p o s s i b ly

p r e j u d ic e m e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d t h a t h e w i ll m a k e
h i m s e l f g u il ty o f a n o ff e n c e o f fr a u d i f h e d o e s t h a t.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
s u b s e q u e n t ly o p e n a fr a u d c a s e a g a in s t h i m .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

Page 92 of 258

And

I

did

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h ic h I b e l ie v e is n o w
w i t h t h e N D P P s O ff ic e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

B u t h e – in s p i t e o f

t h e f a c t t h a t I a m – i t is – i t i s e v i d e n t C h a ir i f y o u r e a d m y r e p o r t t h a t
t h e r e - t h e r e is j u s t n o r e a s o n o r t h e r e i s j u s t n o v a li d r e a s o n fo r h i m to
have suspended me.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . O k a y, t h a n k y o u .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th a n k y o u C h a ir. I f I c a n a s k y o u t o
10

t u r n t o B u n d le Z B a n d i n p a r t ic u l a r p a g e 3 1 5 ?

I s t h is th e Va n Zy l –

J u s t ic e Va n Zy l j u d g m e n t t h a t y o u r e f e r t o w h ic h a t p a g e 3 4 5 s e ts a s i d e
y o u r s u s p e n s io n a n d o r d e r e d t h a t p e n d i n g

th e o u tc o m e o f a n y

d is c i p l i n a r y p r o c e e d i n g s y o u w il l b e n o t li a b l e t o s u s p e n s io n fr o m y o u r
e m p l o y m e n t i n a d d it i o n t o w h i c h a p u n i t iv e c o s ts o r d e r w a s g r a n t e d ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t is th e j u d g m e n t

C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON :

The

–

G e n e r a l N tl e m e z a ’s

n o t ic e

and

M a jo r - G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ’s r e s p o n s e a r e t h e y h e r e b e c a u s e t h e n i f th e y
20

a r e w e m u s t j u s t i d e n t i fy th e m ?
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : W e d o n o t h a v e t h a t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : They are not here?
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o b u t w e c a n c e r t a i n l y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : F o r th e s a k e o f c o m p l e te n e s s i t m i g h t b e i m p o r t a n t to
– to have them.

Page 93 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I

s t il l

have

them

C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON:

Ja.

I f y o u c a n m a k e t h e m a v a il a b l e t h a t w o u l d b e

h e l p f u l b e c a u s e i t is i m p o r ta n t .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

To s e e w h a t fa c t s y o u p l a c e b e f o r e h i m a n d d e s p i t e

t h a t h e m a d e t h e d e c is io n c o n t i n u e w i t h t h e d e c is io n .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja. Thank you.
10

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

It is correct that

t h e – t h e s u s p e n s i o n d i d r e s u l t in n o t o n l y b e i n g s e t a s id e b y c o u r t b u t
a d d it i o n a l le g a l a c ti o n w a s t a k e n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Chair a few things

h a p p e n e d . N tl e m e z a a p p l i e d f o r l e a v e t o a p p e a l th e Va n Z y l j u d g m e n t
w h ic h w a s r e fu s e d a n d t h e n h e p e t i ti o n e d t h e S C A .

In t h a t i n t e r i m

p e r i o d I i n d i c a t e d t h a t I a m g o in g b a c k to w o r k a g a i n , b u t h e t h e n
in d i c a t e d ( i n d is ti n c t) L e s e r v e p a p e r s o n m e f o r a n o t h e r d is c ip li n a r y
h e a r in g .
CHAIRPERSON :
20

Ar e y o u a b l e to r e m e m b e r t h is s u s p e n s i o n – t h i s

a p p lic a ti o n th a t y o u h a d j u s t w o n i n c o u r t n o w – th a t y o u h a v e j u s t
t a lk e d a b o u t w h e r e J u d g e Va n Zy l g a v e j u d g m e n t . T h a t w a s w h a t – t h e
s e c o n d o r th e t h ir d t i m e t h a t y o u h a d t o c h a l le n g e a s u s p e n s io n in
c o u r t?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir t h e v e r y f ir s t

o n e w a s th e i n t e r d ic t t h a t I g o t b e c a u s e t h e y d id n o t g iv e m e e n o u g h

Page 94 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
in f o r m a ti o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And they suspended

m e in s p it e o f t h e i n t e r d i c t.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I

then

had

th a t

o v e r tu r n e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

when I w as arrested.

I was suspended.

Th e s e c o n d t i m e w a s

I d id n o t c h a ll e n g e t h a t fo r

obvious reasons.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Hm.
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e n t h e r e w a s a d i s c i p l i n a r y i n q u ir y ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Then there was a

d is c i p l i n a r y i n q u ir y i n w h ic h I w a s e x o n e r a t e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : W h ic h f o u n d i n y o u r f a v o u r ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s a n d t h e n y o u w e r e t o l d a b o u t v a r i o u s o p ti o n s b y
20

General Piyega?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

And then you went on leave.

Then you came back

a n d th e n a n d th e r e w a s t h i s s u s p e n s io n n o w b y G e n e r a l N t l e m e z a ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Hm.
CHAIRPERSON :

S o it w a s a s e c o n d s u s p e n s i o n .

Page 95 of 258

Is t h a t r i g h t o r a

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h ir d ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

It w o u l d b e t h e t h ir d

o n e C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e t h ir d o n e j a .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : O f w h i c h I c h a ll e n g e d
two.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . O k a y, a lr i g h t . S o c o n t in u e .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I s t h a t t h e s u s p e n s io n w h i c h l e d t o a
h e a r in g
10

the evidence

o f w h ic h s h a l l n o t b e

placed before

the

C o m m i s s i o n a t t h is s t a g e ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s s o C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

S o y o u h a d j u s t s a i d t h a t s o m e th i n g h a d h a p p e n e d

a n d G e n e r a l N t le m e z a w a s p r e p a r in g t o s u s p e n d y o u a g a i n o r I th i n k o r
I t h i n k – I t h o u g h t i t w a s s o m e t h i n g y o u w e r e s a y in g t h a t o r d id I
m is u n d e r s t a n d y o u ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

N o C h a ir h e – n o h e

did suspend me.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . I k n o w a b o u t t h e f ir s t s u s p e n s i o n .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : It was overturned.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u w o n . H e a p p li e d f o r l e a v e . H e w a s t u r n e d d o w n .
H e p e ti ti o n e d th e S C A . Wa s h e tu r n e d d o w n t h e r e a s w e ll ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W e l l C h a ir s o w h a t

h a p p e n e d t h e n is a n d I a m n o t g o i n g to g i v e t h is e v i d e n c e .

Page 96 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

At that point I had

b e e n a p p r o a c h e d b y a p r i v a t e s e c t o r.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : F o r – a n d I w a s s i t t in g
a t h o m e d o in g n o t h i n g a n d t h e m a tt e r – I w a s d u e to r e ti r e J u ly 2 0 1 7 .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d t h e m a t te r w a s

s e t d o w n f o r th e S C A f o r M a r c h 2 0 1 7 .
10

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d I – b y n o w I th i n k
I k n o w h o w t h e c o u r ts w o r k . J u d g m e n t w i ll b e r e s e r v e d a n d i f y o u a r e
lu c k y I w o u ld h a v e g o t te n my – m y j u d g m e n t b y s a y M a y, J u n e w h ic h i n
e ffe c t w o u l d h a v e m e a n t t h a t I w o u l d b a s ic a l ly g o b a c k to w o r k .
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And

fi ll

in

my

r e tir e m e n t p a p e r s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d t h a t – I in d ic a te d
20

t o S A P S t h a t i f t h e y a r e p r e p a r e d t o r e l e a s e m e n o w I a m p r e p a r e d to
go.
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e y a g r e e d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : I think they were very

Page 97 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
h a p p y to g e t r i d o f m e .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Or

some

–

some

in d i v i d u a ls w i t h i n S A P S .
CHAIRPERSON: Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And I was – I went – I
le f t th e p o lic e i n F e b r u a r y.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: And.
10

CHAIRPERSON : 2017?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : 2 0 1 7 C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And I was supposed to
h a v e le f t i n J u l y t h a t y e a r. S o t h e y p a id m e o u t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Til l J u ly ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : For that period of time
a s w e ll .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s a n d d i d t h a t f o r m a s e t tl e m e n t o f t h e a p p e a l o r

not?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : That was part of the –
w e ll N tl e m e z a t h e n i n d ic a t e d t h e n t h a t i f t h a t is t h e c a s e th e y w ill n o t.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Pr o c e e d w i t h th e a p p e a l ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Proceed with the SCA
a p p l ic a ti o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

Page 98 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : I know and I was privy
t o - t o th e c o m m u n ic a t i o n t h a t t h e R e g i s tr a r h a d s e n t t o t h e S t a t e
A t t o r n e y a t th e ti m e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

B a s ic a l ly

t e ll in g

G e n e r a l N tl e m e z a t h a t th e w a y t h e y d e a l t w i t h t h is m a t t e r is n o t t h e
way that the SCA works.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Because.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : In t e r m s o f p r o c e d u r a l is s u e s ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : H m , o k a y. Ye s , c o n t in u e .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

I n t h a t in s t a n c e c a n w e g o b a c k t o

t h e E X H I B I T Z G – t h e M o k g o r o R e p o r t a t p a g e 1 0 9 a n d ju s t to a d d
C h a ir in th e in tr o d u c ti o n – in t h e in i ti a l p r e s e n ta t io n t o t h e s tr e a m t h e r e
was

a

s li d e

that

was

posted

w h ic h

in f o r m e d

that

M a jo r - G e n e r a l B e r n in g N t l e m e z a a c t e d d u r i n g t h e d a t e s o f 2 0 1 4 to
2 0 1 5 fo ll o w i n g w h i c h h e w a s a p p o in t e d to t h e p o s i t io n o f N a ti o n a l H e a d
o f D P C I fr o m 2 0 1 5 t o 2 0 1 7 .
20

CHAIRPERSON :

What page in the Mokgoro Report do you want to

r e fe r u s t o ?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

P a g e 1 0 9 w h ic h i s s u b p a r a g r a p h

5 .2 . 1 .8 a n d ti tl e d “ P a d a y a c h e e A ff i d a v i t” . W i t h o u t g o in g i n t o t h e d e ta il
o f w h a t is s t a te d fr o m p a r a g r a p h s 3 3 8 t o 3 4 5 is it c o r r e c t t h a t t h i s
p a r t ic u l a r C o l o n e l B r i a n P a d a y a c h e e is t h e s a m e P a d a y a c h e e w h o

Page 99 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
a s s is t e d y o u in t h e To s h a n P a n d a y i n v e s t i g a t io n r e la t in g t o i n te r c e p t io n
( b a c k g r o u n d n o is e ) ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

That was the same

C o l o n e l P a d a y a c h e e C h a ir.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : C a n w e t h e n m o v e o n t o p a g e 111 o f
the report?

U n d e r p a r a g r a p h 5 . 2 . 1 . 9 i t is m a r k e d “ Th e D e c i s i o n t o

A u t h o r is e t h e Pr o s e c u ti o n a n d t h e S t e p s Ta k e n ” .

T h i s p a r t ic u l a r

s e c t io n is d e a l t w it h a t l e n g t h a n d t o t h a t e n d y o u w e r e a s k e d
G e n e r a l B o o y s e n t o p l e a s e c l a r i fy t h e – a s f a r a s y o u a r e a w a r e – th e
10

p r o c e s s a n d i n v o l v e m e n t o f M l o t s h w a a s t h e A c t in g D P P t o a u th o r is e
t h e p r o s e c u ti o n a n d t h e s t e p s t a k e n b y a u g m e n ti n g w h a t is a lr e a d y
s t a te d h e r e .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir

at the

time

w h e n I w a s s t il l a t t h e o ffi c e b e f o r e a l l m y p r o b le m s s t a r te d t h e a c t u a l
D P P a t t h e t i m e w a s t h e c u r r e n t N D P P A d v o c a te S h a m il a B a t o h i . S h e
t h e n t o o k u p t h e p o s i t io n a t t h e In t e r n a t i o n a l C o u r t a t T h e H a g u e a n d
A d v o c a t e Si m p h iw e M l o ts h w a w a s a p p o i n t e d a s t h e A c ti n g D P P i n K Z N .
M l o ts h w a – I d i d n o t p e r s o n a l ly k n o w h i m a t t h e ti m e b u t I k n e w a b o u t
him.
20

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Because some of my

in v e s t i g a t o r s h a d r e p o r t e d t h a t t h e y d e a lt w i t h h i m a n d o n e o f t h e
c a s e s o n w h i c h I a lr e a d y t e s t if i e d w a s t h e A m i g o s c a s e u n d e r w h i c h
t h e r e w a s p r e s s u r e o n M l o ts h w a – S i m p h i w e M lo ts h w a t o .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.

Page 100 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Withdraw

those

charges. So I knew about him but I had never met him.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Unbeknown to me and
I o n ly e s t a b l is h e d t h is m u c h l a t e r. T h i s c a m e o u t th a t d u r i n g t h a t s a m e
p e r i o d t h a t I w a s b u s y w it h th e s e i n v e s t ig a ti o n s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
received
10

a

phone

call

from

the

Advocate Mlotshwa
then

A c ti n g

NDPP

Advocate Nomgcobo Jiba.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And – where she said
t o h i m t h a t b e c a u s e o f p r e s s u r e a n d u r g e n c y th e r e a r e c e r ta i n
d o c u m e n ts t h a t h e h a d t o s ig n .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e w a s o n h is w a y t o
P o r t S h e p s to n e t o c o u r t a n d h e i n d i c a t e d to h e r w h e n h e a r r i v e s b a c k
a t t h e o ff ic e h e w i ll h a v e a l o o k a t i t a n d if a ll t h e n e c e s s a r y d o c u m e n t s
a r e t h e r e t h a t h e w o u ld s i g n t h e d o c u m e n t s . I t t u r n s o u t t h a t it – t h e r e

20

is o t h e r a c o v e r i n g le t t e r o r th e a c tu a l in d ic t m e n t t o h a v e m y s e l f a n d
C a t o M a n o r m e m b e r s p r o s e c u t e d f o r r a c k e te e r in g . O n h i s a r r iv a l b a c k
a t t h e o ff ic e t h e r e w a s o n ly t h e le t t e r t o s i g n w i t h n o s u p p o r t in g
d o c u m e n ts .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 101 of 258

H e th e n w r o t e a n

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
e m a i l to I th in k i t w a s A d v o c a t e C h a u k e .
CHAIRPERSON :

Hm.

W o u ld t h e le t t e r t h a t h e w a s e x p e c t e d t o s ig n

h a v e b e e n a l e t t e r t o a u th o r is e y o u r p r o s e c u ti o n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

It would have been a

r e c o m m e n d a ti o n C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : It w o u l d h a v e b e e n a r e c o m m e n d a t io n ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s .
CHAIRPERSON : That you be prosecuted?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S o n o r m a lly t h e D P P

in s p i te o f t h e f a c t t h a t t h e N D P P m u s t a u t h o r is e p r o s e c u t i o n s i n t e r m s
o f r a c k e te e r in g .

I t r e m a i n s t h e r e s p o n s i b i li ty o f th e D P P t o s i g n th e

in d i c t m e n t . S o i t w a s t h e a c c o m p a n y i n g l e t te r w i t h th e in d ic t m e n t t h a t I
s u s p e c t th a t h e h a d t o s i g n b u t h e in d i c a t e d i n a n e m a il t o C h a u k e l o o k
I a m n o t g o i n g t o s ig n t h is t h i n g u n ti l a n d u n le s s i t is c le a r fr o m t h e
s u p p o r t in g d o c u m e n ts w h ic h in d iv i d u a ls a r e l in k e d to th e c r i m in a l
e n t e r p r i s e in d iv i d u a ll y a n d c o ll e c t iv e ly.

T h e n i t i s c o m m u n i c a t io n

b e t w e e n C h a u k e a n d M lo t s h w a t o a n d fr o i n w h ic h i t b e c a m e e v i d e n t
20

t h a t A d v o c a t e M l o t s h w a w a s n o t c o m f o r ta b le to s ig n t h e d o c u m e n ts . A t
a la t e r s ta g e t h e r e w a s a m e e t in g a t N a ti o n a l H e a d O ff ic e - a t t h e
N a t io n a l

P r o s e c u ti n g

O ffi c e

-

where

A d v o c a te C h a u k e

told

A d v o c a t e Si m p h iw e M l o ts h w a t h a t A d v o c a t e J i b a w a n te d t o s e e b o t h i n
h e r o ffic e . A d v o c a te J i b a o n c e a g a i n a s k e d h i m w h a t t h e p r o b l e m w a s
a n d h e s a i d h e is h a p p y t o s ig n i t b u t h e n e e d s t h e s u p p o r ti n g

Page 102 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
d o c u m e n ts t h a t l in k s u s c o ll e c ti v e ly a n d in d i v i d u a ll y t o t h e c r i m in a l
e n t e r p r i s e . T h e m e e ti n g w a s a d j o u r n e d a n d t h e n e x t m o m e n t o r a w h i l e
la t e r A d v o c a t e M l o ts h w a w a s r e p la c e d b y A d v o c a te M o ip o n e N o k o .
N o w C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : How – how soon after that – if you are able to say?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir I w il l h a v e t o

g u e s s b u t i t w a s n o t v e r y l o n g a f te r t h a t .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

N o w C h a ir a l o t o f

t h i n g s h a p p e n e d s i m u l t a n e o u s ly n o w b e c a u s e t h e r e i s M l o ts h w a ’s
r e fu s a l to w i t h d r a w c h a r g e s a g a i n s t M a b u y a k h u l u a n d N k o n y e n i .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h e r e is h i s r e f u s a l t o
s ig n d o c u m e n ts f o r o u r p r o s e c u t io n a n d th e n e x t m o m e n t h e g e ts
r e p l a c e d b y A d v o c a te M o i p o n e N o k o .
CHAIRPERSON :

S o j u s t to u n d e r s t a n d .

So as you unders tand the

p o s i ti o n A d v o c a t e M l o ts h w a i n r e g a r d t o t h e A m i g o s c a s e w h i c h r e l a t e d
t o M r M a b u y a k h u l u a m o n g o th e r s a n d Ms N k o n y e n i – in r e g a r d t o t h a t
20

c a s e y o u r u n d e r s t a n d in g is th a t p r e s s u r e w a s b e i n g p u t o n h i m t o
w i t h d r a w t h e c h a r g e s a n d h e w a s r e fu s i n g a n d in r e g a r d t o y o u h e w a s
b e i n g a s k e d t o r e c o m m e n d y o u r p r o s e c u t i o n a n d h e w a s s a y i n g u n ti l I
h a v e s u p p o r t i n g d o c u m e n t s t h a t s h o w h o w th e s e in d i v i d u a ls a r e li n k e d
t o th e e n te r p r is e I a m n o t p r e p a r e d t o s i g n .
r e g a r d t o t h e t w o m a tt e r s . Is t h a t r ig h t ?

Page 103 of 258

T h a t w a s h is s t a n c e in

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : 1 0 0 p e r c e n t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

So Mlotshwa refuses to sign without

t h e s u p p o r t in g d o c u m e n t a ti o n . W h o i n f a c t s i g n e d t h e in d i c t m e n t ? A r e
you aware?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
two indictments.

Th e - w e ll t h e r e w e r e

T h e f ir s t o n e I t h i n k w a s s i g n e d b y – I t h i n k i t w a s

u n s i g n e d b u t I t h in k t h e c o v e r i n g l e t t e r w a s s i g n e d b y A d v o c a t e N o k o .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : And.
10

CHAIRPERSON :

So

after

A d v o c a te M l o ts h w a

–

after

A d v o c a t e Ml o ts h w a w a s n o l o n g e r t h e A c t in g D P P a n d A d v o c a t e N o k o
h a d b e e n a p p o i n t e d A c ti n g D P P t h e n y o u r i n d ic t m e n t w a s s i g n e d ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O r y o u r p r o s e c u t io n w a s ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s .
CHAIRPERSON : Authorised?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W e ll n o t a u t h o r i s e d

C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

It was recommended

to.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Wa s r e c o m m e n d e d ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , o k a y b y h e r t h a t is A d v o c a te N o k o t o .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.

Page 104 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e N a ti o n a l O ff ic e .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir s o m e w h e r e i n

t h is e x h i b it h e r e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: ZG.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

ZG

where

I

th i n k

( in t e r v e n e s ) .
C H A I R P E R S O N : ( In t e r v e n e s ) .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : M a k e s u c h a fi n d i n g .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t N o k o d id w h a t

M l o ts h w a d i d n o t w a n t t o d o .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e r e is a r e fe r e n c e

to that.
CHAIRPERSON :

Let us go there if we can.

M s S e p te m b e r d o y o u

k n o w w h e r e t h a t is o r n o t r e a lly ?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h e r e is - t h e r e is c e r t a i n ly t h e

exchange between Mlotshwa at page 155.
20

M l o ts h w a a c t u a ll y t e s t i fi e d

a t t h e in q u ir y a n d th a t t a lk s to h i s a g r e e m e n t to i n fa c t s i g n th e
in d i c t m e n t

w it h o u t

the

s u p p o r ti n g

documents

and

J ib a ’s

n o n - in t e r f e r e n c e i n th e e x c h a n g e b e t w e e n h i m a n d C h a u k e .

Is t h a t

w h a t y o u r e f e r to C h a ir ?
CHAIRPERSON :
something.

W e l l i t is M a jo r - G e n e r a l B o o y s e n th a t i s lo o k i n g f o r

I th i n k h e s a i d it i s in t h e ju d g m e n t.

Page 105 of 258

I s t h a t r i g h t?

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M a jo r - G e n e r a l B o o y s e n .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Judge when.
C H A I R P E R S O N : W h a t y o u a r e l o o k in g fo r is i n t h e j u d g m e n t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Ye s .

I t i s in th e

ju d g m e n t w h e r e s h e is – w h e r e t h e J u d g e a c t u a ll y c o m m e n t s th a t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Noko

d id

what

M l o ts h w a h a d r e f u s e d to d o .
CHAIRPERSON:
10

A n d w h ic h i s i t - J u d g e Va n Z y l ’s j u d g m e n t o r

J u d g e ( in t e r v e n e s ) ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

N o i t i s th e M o k g o r o

ju d g m e n t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h . O h , o h h e r e , o k a y.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : C a n I p e r h a p s h a v e a lo o k a t t h a t?
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : And revert to you?

I do not have it

a t.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : A t m y f in g e r t i p s r i g h t n o w.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. L o o k fo r i t d u r in g t h e lu n c h b r e a k , o k a y.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : W il l d o C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : If I c a n t h e n t a k e y o u t o p a g e 11 7 o f
t h e r e p o r t – M o k g o r o R e p o r t a n d th a t i s s u b p a r a g r a p h 5 . 2 . 1 . 1 0 a n d
t h a t i n f a c t c o n f ir m s e v i d e n c e t h a t - u n l e s s I a m i n c o r r e c t – e v i d e n c e in

Page 106 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
r e l a ti o n t o M l o ts h w a ’s e n d o f o ff ic e . D o y o u h a v e a n y c o m m e n t s i n th is
regard?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C a n y o u ju s t r e p h r a s e
the question please?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

No

p r o b le m .

Page

11 7

p a r a g r a p h 5 . 2 . 1 .1 0 is ti t le d “ N o R e a p p o in t m e n t o f M l o ts h w a ” .

sub

Do you

h a v e a n y p e r s o n a l k n o w l e d g e i n r e l a ti o n t o th a t n o r e a p p o i n t m e n t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
personal over
10

and above

N o C h a ir n o t – n o t

what I have read

in

this

fi n d i n g

by

Judge Mokgoro.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Thank you.

If we can then go to

p a g e 11 9 a n d th is p a r t ic u l a r s u b s e c t i o n 5 .2 . 1 .11 t a l k s s p e c i fic a lly t o
“ N e l ’s O p in i o n ” – A d v o c a t e N e l’s o p in io n .

Do you have any personal

k n o w l e d g e i n r e l a t i o n t o t h a t?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir

I

have

got

( in t e r v e n e s ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

I a m s o r r y.

L e t u s fi n a l is e A d v o c a t e N o k o g e ts

a p p o i n t e d a s A c t i n g D P P w h a t h a p p e n s ? L e t u s – l e t u s g e t t h a t s to r y.
W h a t h a p p e n s a f t e r th a t ?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W e ll

Chair

th r e e

s ig n if ic a n t th in g s h a p p e n . S h e g e t s a p p o in t e d w i th i n tw o w e e k s . S h e
withdraws

the

Amigo

case

charges

a g a in s t

Mabuyakhulu

and

Peggy Nkonyeni.
CHAIRPERSON : Ms Nkonyeni.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 107 of 258

A b o u t t w o o r th r e e

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m o n th s l a te r s h e w i t h d r a w s t h e c h a r g e s a g a i n s t To s h a n P a n d a y.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm, yes.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d c o m p a n y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d i f o n e l o o k s a t th e
ti m e li n e i t i s d u r i n g th a t s a m e ti m e li n e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Unbeknown

to

me

t h e n b u t k n o w n to m e n o w.
10

CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t m y p r o s e c u t io n

is r e c o m m e n d e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . S o y o u r p r o s e c u ti o n is r e c o m m e n d e d b y h e r to
t h e N a t i o n a l – th e Ac t in g – t o th e N D P P ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : At that time who was the NDPP – Mr Nxasana or…?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

No, no then it was

Advocate Nomgcobo Jiba.
CHAIRPERSON :
20

O h , M is s J ib a , a n d w a s y o u r p r o s e c u ti o n t h e n

authorised?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Ye s C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s a n d y o u w e r e s e r v e d w i t h a n i n d ic t m e n t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
a n d th e n s e r v e d w i th in d i c t m e n t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y c o n ti n u e .

Page 108 of 258

I w a s a r r e s t e d C h a ir

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

I f I c a n t h e n t a k e y o u t o – I ’v e j u s t

been informed paragraph – page 121 of the Mokgoro report, paragraph
3 7 5 w h i c h is e x a c tly w h e r e w e a r e n o w C h a ir, s o i t ’s p a g e 1 2 1
p a r a g r a p h 3 7 5 t a lk s t o N o k o h a v in g s ig n e d w h ic h s h e r e g a r d e d t o b e
t h e c o v e r in g l e t te r t o t h e p r o s e c u ti o n m e m o r a n d u m a t th e r e q u e s t o f
C h a k e , i s t h a t t h e p a r a g r a p h t h a t y o u w e r e r e fe r r i n g t o e a r li e r ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t ’s t h e p a r a g r a p h

I w a s r e f e r r in g to C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :
10

Th a n k y o u .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a n k y o u o n t h a t s c o r e a n d s p e c i f ic

t o th e p r o s e c u t io n m e m o r a n d u m i n t h e o u tli n e o f t h e p r o c e d u r e t h a t
n e e d s t o b e f o l lo w e d f o r t h e p u r p o s e s o f o b t a i n in g t h e a u th o r is a t i o n s
r e l a ti n g t o r a c k e te e r in g c h a r g e s , a p r o s e c u ti o n m e m o r a n d u m n e e d s t o
b e s u b m it t e d . If o n e l o o k s t h e n fr o m p a r a g r a p h 3 7 5 a t p a g e 1 2 1 o f t h e
M o k g o r o r e p o r t a n a d d r e s s is m a d e in r e l a ti o n t o t h e p r o s e c u ti o n
m e m o r a n d u m s p e c i fic to y o u r c a s e . D o y o u h a v e a n y c o m m e n ts i n
r e l a ti o n t o t h e p r o s e c u ti o n m e m o r a n d u m s u b m i t t e d ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I

don’t

want

to

c o m m e n t s p e c i f ic a l ly b e c a u s e s o m e o f t h e s t u ff I o n ly r e a li s e d a n d
20

heard about ex post facto .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s w e l l d o y o u w a n t t o b e s p e c i fi c a b o u t th e

q u e s t io n t h a t y o u w a n t h i m t o c o m m e n t o n .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

N o p r o b le m C h a ir. I f I c o u ld a s k y o u

– j u s t b e a r w i t h m e C h a ir. I f I c o u ld a s k y o u t o t u r n to p a g e Z A .
CHAIRPERSON :

To E x h i b it Z ?

Page 109 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
CHAIRPERSON :

ZA.

Z A o k a y.

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

P a g e 2 0 4 d o y o u r e c o g n is e th is

document?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

I d o C h a ir.

P l e a s e e x p l a i n w h a t t h is d o c u m e n t

is ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a i r n o r m a l ly, a s

I’ v e s a i d e a r li e r o n in m y e v i d e n c e , o n c e t h e d e s k a t t h e N a t io n a l
10

P r o s e c u t in g A u th o r it y, f o r i n s t a n c e a d v o c a te M a b o l o a n d a d v o c a t e
K r u g e r, if t h e y a r e s a ti s f i e d t h a t a l l r e q u ir e m e n t s a r e m e t a m e e ti n g is
t h e n – o r a s e s s i o n is t h e n s e t d o w n w i t h t h e N D P P, a t t h a t s e s s i o n
s h e ’s p r e s e n te d o r h e i s p r e s e n te d w i th a p r o s e c u ti o n m e m o r a n d u m .
H o w i t n o r m a l ly w o r k s i n p r a c t ic e is th a t t h e y w i l l a l s o d o a P o w e r P o i n t
p r e s e n t a ti o n a n d g o th r o u g h t h a t i n o r d e r – t h e r e a r e d e c id e d c a s e s ,
a n d I t h i n k i t w a s i n t h e M o o d le y m a t t e r w h e r e i t ’s n o t a p r e r e q u i s i t e t o
r e a d a l l t h e d o c k e ts a n d s t a t e m e n t s . S o ju s t a f a c t u a l r e p o r t h o w t h e
accused are linked .
CHAIRPERSON :

20

B a s i c a ll y t h e y s a y th is is t h e c h a r g e , t h e s e a r e t h e

r e q u ir e m e n t s f o r u s t o p r o v e t h is c h a r g e , t h is is th e e v i d e n c e t h a t w e
h a v e t h a t p r o v e s e a c h o f t h e e le m e n ts , t h a t ’s w h a t th e y g o t h r o u g h
more or less.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
CHAIRPERSON :

T h a t ’s c o r r e c t C h a ir.

Ye s .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 110 of 258

A n d b a s e d o n th a t i f

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
s h e ’s th e n h a p p y o r h e ’s t h e n h a p p y t h a t t h e c r i m e o f r a c k e te e r in g h a d
b e e n c o m m i t te d h e o r s h e w il l t h e n a u th o r i s e th e p r o s e c u t i o n .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s , y e s .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

S o t h e d o c u m e n t t h a t a p p e a r s fr o m

p a g e 2 0 4 u n t il p a g e 2 6 0 o f E x h i b it Z A is th a t th e p r o s e c u ti o n
m e m o r a n d u m r e l e v a n t t o th e c h a r g e , th e r a c k e te e r in g c a s e a g a in s t
you?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e o n e t h a t ’s s i g n e d

by advocate Noko?
10

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Ye s .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th a t ’s t h e s a m e o n e

C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

And if I can then take you to page

2 6 1 o f t h a t s a m e b u n d l e t h e r e ’s a n o t h e r d o c u m e n t w h i c h a p p e a r s t h e r e
w h ic h r u n s u n ti l p a g e . . .( i n t e r v e n t i o n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

I’m sorry what page?

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
CHAIRPERSON :

Of ZA?

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
20

CHAIRPERSON :

2 6 1 o f t h e s a m e b u n d le .

Z A s ti ll o n Z A .

S o r r y ju s t h a n g o n o n e s e c o n d .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

I t ’s th e le v e r a r c h , i t ’s i n f a c t t h e

d o c u m e n t i m m e d i a t e ly a f te r t h e d o c u m e n t ( in d is ti n c t) .
CHAIRPERSON :

B u t t h e r e p o r t t h a t I w a s lo o k i n g a t w a s a t Z E . Wa s I

o n t h e w r o n g d o c u m e n t , th e r e p o r t t h a t y o u w e r e a s k i n g th e w i tn e s s
a b o u t?

Page 111 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Ye s t h e r e p o r t I w a s r e f e r r i n g t o i s i n

ZA.
CHAIRPERSON :

ZA not ZE?

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
CHAIRPERSON :

ZA.

O k a y w h a t w a s th e p a g e , l e t ’s g o b a c k t o i t b e c a u s e

I th in k I w a s l o o k i n g a t t h e w r o n g o n e th e n .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
CHAIRPERSON :

N o p r o b le m i t ’s p a g e 2 0 4 .

2 0 4 , o k a y s o t h a t’s t h e p r o s e c u t i o n m e m o r a n d u m

t h a t ( i n d is t in c t ) s a y s w a s u s e d i n r e g a r d t o h i s r a c k e t e e r i n g c a s e , i s
10

t h a t r ig h t ?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s C h a ir.

O k a y.

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

And if one goes to page 261 of that

s a m e b u n d l e t h e r e ’s a p r e s e n t a ti o n d o c u m e n t th a t a p p e a r s th e r e . W h a t
d o c u m e n t w o u ld t h is b e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
need

to

correct

s o m e t h in g .

If

C h a ir I t h i n k I j u s t

you

look

at

t h is

m e m o r a n d u m . . . ( i n te r v e n t i o n ) .
CHAIRPERSON : The one at 261?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

J a , th a t ’s t h e s e c o n d

o n e s h e s i g n e d o r a s e c o n d p r o s e c u ti o n . I’ m r e f e r r in g to t h e c o v e r i n g
le t t e r – t h e c o v e r i n g m i n u t e i n th e fir s t a p p lic a ti o n f o r m y a u t h o r is a ti o n .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s t h a t’s t h e o n e y o u w a n t t o i d e n t i fy o r a t le a s t t o

fi n d , o k a y.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

U n f o r t u n a t e l y I d o n ’ t. . .( i n t e r v e n ti o n ) .

Page 112 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON :

D o y o u k n o w w h e r e – d o y o u k n o w w h e t h e r i t is i n

the bundle or not?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

I t c e r t a i n l y d o e s n ’t c o m e t o m i n d

a n d I d o n o t r e c a l l i t to b e i n c l u d e d i n t h e b u n d l e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y w i ll y o u c h e c k o v e r t h e lu n c h b r e a k .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
CHAIRPERSON :

W il l d o .

A r e y o u a b l e to m a k e t h e p o i n t w i t h o u t lo o k in g a t i t

t h a t y o u m a y h a v e w a n t e d to m a k e a b o u t i t o r y o u ’ d r a th e r m a k e it a f t e r
lu n c h w h e n i t h a s b e e n fi le d ?
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a i r I w o u l d l ik e t o

b e 1 0 0 p e r c e n t a c c u r a t e , I ’d m u c h r a t h e r l o o k a t th e d o c u m e n t fir s t.
CHAIRERSON:

J a b u t y o u r r e c o l le c t i o n is t h a t it is i n t h e b u n d le o r

you are not sure?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I ’ m n o t to o s u r e

w h e t h e r i t’s i n t h e b u n d l e C h a ir I’ v e s e e n i t s o m e w h e r e .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s , o k a y th a n k y o u .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

I f w e c o u ld t h e n d e a l w i th t h e s e

d o c u m e n ts s i n c e w e ’r e a t th e m w h i c h is t h e p r o s e c u ti o n m e m o r a n d u m
a n d t h e p r e s e n t a ti o n .
20

I s i t c o r r e c t t h a t y o u t o o k c e r t a i n a c ti o n i n

r e l a ti o n t o th e d e ta il o f t h e s e d o c u m e n ts a n d p l e a s e e x p la i n th e c o n t e x t
of such

a c ti o n

th a t

was

th e n

taken,

if

I

can

th en

refer

you

t o . . .( in t e r v e n ti o n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

I’ m s o r r y, I ’ m s o r r y, l e t’s k n o w a b o u t t h e d o c u m e n t s

fir s t. T h is o n e a t 2 6 1 y o u s a y i s a p r e s e n t a ti o n w h e r e ?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

So

it

Page 113 of 258

was

General

B o o y s e n ’s

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
e v i d e n c e th a t i n th e p r o c e s s o f o b t a i n in g t h e n e c e s s a r y a u t h o r i s a t io n s
t h e r e a r e t w o d o c u m e n ts th a t n e e d t o b e s u b m i t t e d .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

The

one

is

a

p r o s e c u ti o n

memorandum.
CHAIRPERSON : Which we have seen.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

A n d t h e o th e r i s – w h i c h i s t h e o n e

that appears at page 204.
CHAIRPERSON :
10

Ye s .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

A n d th e o t h e r is a p r e s e n t a ti o n t h a t

n e e d s to b e d o n e a t p a g e 2 6 1 .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

B o t h o f th e s e d o c u m e n ts , i f I

u n d e r s t a n d t h e e v i d e n c e c o r r e c t ly , a r e d o c u m e n ts t h a t w e r e th e n
s u b m i tt e d i n s u p p o r t o f th e i n s t i tu t io n o f r a c k e t e e r i n g c h a r g e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
so

you

have

the

p r o s e c u ti o n

memorandum

T h a t ’s c o r r e c t C h a ir
and

the

P o w e r P o in t

p r e s e n t a ti o n w h ic h b a s ic a l ly e n c a p s u l a t e s w h a t ’s c o n ta in e d i n t h e
memorandum.
20

CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s o k a y.

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

If I c a n t h e n ta k e y o u t o p a g e 1 9 1 o f

the same bundle.
CHAIRPERSON :

I ’v e g o t i t .

A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I t ’s A n n e x u r e J W B 1 7 .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 114 of 258

W h i c h fi l e a r e w e i n

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
now?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

S t il l t h e s a m e b u n d l e i t ’s Z A .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Page?

P a g e 1 9 1 t h e r e ’s a n a ffi d a v i t w h ic h

a p p e a r s th e r e w h ic h is y o u r a ffi d a v i t .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t’s m y a ff i d a v i t

C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

A n d s i mi l a r l y a t p a g e 1 9 9 o f t h e

s a m e b u n d l e a p p e a r s a n o th e r a ffi d a v i t t h a t y o u d e p o s e d to .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t ’s

also

my

a ffi d a v i t C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

H o w e v e r th e s e a ffi d a v i t s a r e in f a c t

unsigned.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

They are unsigned

C h a ir b u t th o s e a ffi d a v i ts – th e o r i g i n a l o n e s w i th m y s ig n a tu r e o n a r e
in t h e p o li c e d o c k e ts .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s t h e o n e a ffi d a v i t i s o n e a t p a g e 1 9 1 t h e o t h e r

one is where?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
20

CHAIRPERSON :

Page 199.

1 9 9 o k a y s o t h e r e a r e o r i g in a l a ffi d a v i ts – t h e r e a r e

o r i g in a l v e r s i o n s o f t h e s a m e a ffi d a v it s t h a t a r e s i g n e d ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a i r y e s I n o r m a l ly

k e e p c o p i e s b e c a u s e in t h e s e ty p e o f i n v e s t ig a ti o n s , a n d i t h a s a l r e a d y
h a p p e n e d , th a t s ta t e m e n ts s e e m t o d i s a p p e a r s o I k e e p c o p ie s a n d I
d i d n o t r e - s ig n th e m b e c a u s e i t w o u l d h a v e h a d a d i ff e r e n t d a te o n .

Page 115 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s , ja n o t h a t ’s f in e .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

These

a ff id a v i ts

talk

to

the

p r o s e c u t i o n m e m o r a n d u m a n d i t t a l k s t o t h e p r e s e n t a t i o n w h ic h i s
e n c l o s e d b e l o w. P le a s e e x p l a i n th e c o n te x t o f . . .( i n te r v e n t io n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

M a y b e f o r w h a t i t’s w o r t h ju s t in c a s e w e n e v e r g e t

t o th e s i g n e d o n e s , d o y o u c o n fir m t h a t t h e c o n t e n t s o f b o t h a ffi d a v i ts
a r e tr u e a n d c o r r e c t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I did Chair and I

h a n d e d t h e m i n a s p a r t o f m y s t a te m e n t, I c o n fir m t h a t t h e y a r e
10

a c c u r a te a n d t h a t ’s w h a t I w r o t e .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s o k a y t h a n k y o u .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a n k y o u C h a ir. G e n e r a l B o o y s e n

p l e a s e e x p la i n w h y y o u d e p o s e d t o t h e s e a ffi d a v i ts a n d t h e c o n t e x t i n
w h ic h i t w a s d o n e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Chair when I was

p r o s e c u t e d th e s e c o n d t i m e , o b v i o u s ly t h e n w e a p p li e d i n t e r m s o f R u le
53 for the record of decision and part of that then – the record would
b e t h e n th e m e m o r a n d u m a n d th e P o w e r P o in t p r e s e n ta t io n .
went
20

through

the

PowerPoint

p r e s e n t a ti o n

and

the

When I

p r o s e c u ti o n

m e m o r a n d u m i t w a s b l a t a n t ly c l e a r t o m e t h a t b o t h a d v o c a te M a h e m a
w h o w a s r e s p o n s i b l e fo r p r e p a r i n g t h e p r o s e c u ti o n m e m o r a n d u m , t h e
second one, and advocate Noko who worked with him at the time – I
w a s u n d e r th e i m p r e s s i o n t h a t s h e d i d t h e P o w e r P o i n t p r e s e n t a ti o n b u t
it w a s l a te r p o i n te d o u t i n c o u r t p a p e r s t h a t a d v o c a t e M a h e m a p r e p a r e d
b o t h , b u t s h e j u s t r e p r e s e n te d i t w i t h h i m to th e N D P P a t t h e ti m e .

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C h a ir i f y o u g o t h r o u g h – n o w in m y e x p e r i e n c e , a n d I’ v e d o n e a
n u m b e r o f th e s e , i f y o u s e n d a d o c k e t t o th e p u b lic p r o s e c u t o r fo r a
d e c is i o n a n d y o u d o a m e m o r a n d u m , y o u w r it e a ( i n d is t in c t ) o f w h a t
e a c h w it n e s s w il l s a y a n d y o u ’ ll d e s c r i b e t h e e v i d e n c e f o r th e
p r o s e c u t i o n a n d f o r t h e d e fe n c e a n d th is p a r tic u la r m e m o r a n d u m , o r
t h is p a r t ic u l a r m e m o r a n d u m i s p e r m e a t e d w i t h m is r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s a s t o
w h a t th e w i tn e s s e s ( i n d is t in c t ) , t h e r e a r e s e r io u s o m is s i o n s t h a t s h o u l d
h a v e f o r m e d p a r t o f t h e p r o s e c u t i o n m e m o r a n d u m b u t m o s t i m p o r t a n t ly
C h a ir i t c o n ta i n s f a l s e h o o d s .
10

I n s o m e i n s t a n c e s a d v o c a te – a n d o n e

w o u ld n o t s a y th is l ig h tl y o n a p l a t f o r m lik e t h i s C h a ir, b u t I w il l s a y i t,
a d v o c a t e M a h e m a b l a ta n tl y li e s i n th e p r o s e c u ti o n m e m o r a n d u m s a n d I
c a n p r o v e i t . H e s a y s t h i n g s t h a t is p a r t o f th e e v i d e n c e t h a t ’s n o w h e r e
t o b e f o u n d i n t h e d o c k e t s i t j u s t d o e s n o t e x i s t.

I d e p o s e d o f th e s e

t w o a ff i d a v i ts a n d I o p e n e d c r i m i n a l c a s e s a g a i n s t a d v o c a te M a h e m a
a n d N o k o f o r c o m m i t ti n g fr a u d b e c a u s e t h e m i s r e p r e s e n te d w h a t i s
c o n ta in e d in t h e d o c k e ts a n d b e c a u s e o f t h a t m y s e l f a n d t h e S t a t e
h a v i n g p r e j u d ic e d . C h a ir i f o n e g o in t o m y s t a t e m e n t – o r o n e c a n h a v e
a look at the memorandum and go paragraph by paragraph what I
d e s c r ib e I’ ll j u s t c i te o n e e x a m p l e . M a h e m a , fo r i n s ta n c e w i ll w r i t e i n
20

t h e p r o s e c u t i o n m e m o r a n d u m t o S h a u n A b r a h a m s – a d v o c a te S h a u n
A b r a h a m s t h a t B o o y s e n , t h a t ’s m y s e lf a n d o n e o f t h e p e o p l e fr o m K a t o
M a n o r, Wa r r a n t O ffi c e r P a u l M o s te r t , h e s a y s in th e m e m o r a n d u m t h a t
B o o y s e n a n d M o s t e r t c o n s p ir e d t o k i ll C o lo n e l N t o n k o .

C h a ir t h e r e ’s

n o t h i n g o f t h a t n a t u r e i n t h e d o c k e t , w e h a d n o th i n g t o .. .( i n t e r v e n ti o n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

S o y o u s a y, h e s a y s s o m e th i n g t h a t ’s q u i te c r i t ic a l

Page 117 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
f o r th e c h a r g e b u t t h e r e is n o – n o th i n g in t h e d o c k e t th a t s u p p o r t e d
t h a t s t a te m e n t , th a t ’s w h a t y o u ’r e s a y i n g ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A b s o l u te ly n o th in g ,

w h a t t h e w i t n e s s s a y s i n h is s ta t e m e n t , it ’s a d e c e a s e d w it n e s s b y t h e
w a y C h a ir, h e o v e r h e a r d a c o n v e r s a ti o n b y t w o o th e r p e o p l e s t a ti n g
t h a t t h e y w a n t e d t o g e t r i d o f C o l o n e l N t o n k o a n d th e y w il l s p e a k t o
Booysen

and

Mostert about

it but he

says

in

the

p r o s e c u ti o n

m e m o r a n d u m t h a t i t w a s B o o y s e n a n d M o s t e r t w h o c o n s p ir e d t o k il l
N to n k o .
10

C h a ir if h e w a s r i g h t t h e n th e y s h o u l d h a v e c h a r g e d my s e l f

a n d M o s t e r t fo r c o n s p ir a c y to k i ll N t o n k o .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h e f a c t o f th e m a t t e r
is a n in q u e s t f i n d i n g s M a g is tr a te s h a d a lr e a d y r u le d t h a t t h e n u m b e r o f
t h e p e o p le t h a t w e r e b e in g s o u g h t w e r e – a n d e v e n t u a l ly k il le d t h a t
t h e y w e r e r e s p o n s i b le f o r t h e k il li n g o f N t o n k o .
c o m p le t e f a b r i c a t io n .

S o t h a t – it ’s a

W h e n I p o in t e d th i s o u t t o t h e m i n m y f o u n d in g

a ffi d a v i t , i n m y r e v ie w a p p li c a t io n f o r t h e s e c o n d a u t h o r i s a t io n , h e
e x a c e r b a t e s h i s o w n p r o b l e m , h e s a y s to m e t h a t ’s h i s i n t e r p r e ta t io n o f
what
20

the

w it n e s s

says

and,

I

mean

C h a ir,

we

can

read

th e

s t a te m e n t . . .( i n t e r v e n t io n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

It s a y s w h a t th e s t a te m e n t h e m a d e th a t y o u

c o n s p ir e d t o g e t h e r w i t h s o m e b o d y e ls e to k il l N t o n k o .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
CHAIRPERSON :

Ntonko.

Ye s h e s a y s t h a t is h i s in t e r p r e t a ti o n o f w h a t w a s in

t h e d o c k e t a n d w h a t w a s in t h e d o c k e t w a s c e r t a i n tw o p e o p l e w h ic h d id

Page 118 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
n o t i n v o l v e y o u , s p o k e a b o u t – s a i d s o m e th in g t o t h e e ff e c t t h a t th e y
needed to talk to you.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th e y fir s t s a id th a t

t h e y n e e d t o g e t r i d o f N to n k o . . .( i n te r v e n t i o n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s a n d t h e y w o u l d ta lk t o y o u a b o u t i t .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s C h a ir.

Ye s o k a y.

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

B u t C h a ir t h e n in h is

a n s w e r in g a ff id a v i t h e – t h i s ti m e a r o u n d h e li e s u n d e r o a t h , h e s a y s
10

t h a t B o o y s e n a n d M o s t e r t r e c e i v e d m o n e y fr o m , I c a n ’ t r e m e m b e r, s o m e
( in d is ti n c t) a s s o c ia t io n o n t h r e e o c c a s i o n s . T h e r e ’s n o t h in g l ik e t h a t i n
t h e d o c k e t, t h e r e ’s n o th in g l ik e th a t i n th e s t a te m e n t .
CHAIRPERSON :

A n d h e c o u l d o n ly s p e a k o n t h e b a s is o f w h a t w a s i n

t h e d o c k e t, h e c o u ld n ’t s p e a k o n t h e b a s i s o f a n y t h i n g e ls e ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir h e w a s s p e a k in g
w h a t w a s w r i t t e n in t h e S u n d a y Ti m e s , h e w a s n o t , h e w a s n o t c o n fi n in g
h i m s e l f to w h a t w a s r e c o r d e d i n t h e d o c k e t s .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s b u t w h a t I’ m a s k i n g is w h e t h e r h e – fo r p u r p o s e d

o f h i m p e r f o r m i n g th e f u n c ti o n t h a t h e w a s p e r fo r m i n g , h e w a s
20

supposed to base whatever he was saying on what was in the docket is
t h a t r ig h t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
CHAIRPERSON :

T h a t ’s s o C h a ir.

But you are saying he was not doing that he was

g o i n g o u ts i d e th e d o c k e t a n d b a s i n g s o m e o f t h e th in g s o n w h a t w a s
said in the newspapers?

Page 119 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir h e w a s e i t h e r

m a k i n g i t u p h i m s e l f o r s o m e o n e t o l d h i m t h a t , b u t th a t i s d e fi n i t e l y n o t
in t h e d o c k e t.
CHAIRPERSON:

Ye s .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And over and above

t h a t . . .( i n te r v e n t io n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

But if you – if somebody else had told him about it,

a s l o n g a s th a t w a s n o t p a r t o f th e d o c k e t h e w a s n o t s u p p o s e d t o r e ly
o n i t, is n ’ t i t ?
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

No that would have

b e e n c o m p l e t e ly ir r a ti o n a l.
CHAIRPERSON :

H e w o u ld h a v e n e e d e d t o g e t a s t a te m e n t f r o m t h a t

p e r s o n , th a t s ta t e m e n t – t h a t p e r s o n ’s s t a te m e n t w o u l d b e p a r t o f t h e
d o c k e t.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir t h e r e ’s a n o t h e r

– I a g r e e w i t h y o u C h a ir, t h e r e ’s a n o th e r a l le g a ti o n i n t h e p r o s e c u ti o n
memorandum that I planted a AK47 on one of the scenes.

That story

w a s i n t h e n e w s p a p e r, t h e r e ’s n o t e v e n a h i n t o f e v i d e n c e in a n y o f th e
d o c k e ts .
20

CHAIRPERSON :

A n d h e in c l u d e d i t ?

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t ’s p a r t o f t h e –

C h a ir t h e r e a r e a n u m b e r o f u n tr u th s , a n u m b e r o f m is r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s
w h e r e t h e y w il l s a y w h a t a p a r ti c u l a r w it n e s s s a i d b u t t h e y w il l a d d t o
w h a t t h e w it n e s s s a i d a n d t h e r e a r e a n u m b e r o f o m is s i o n s w h e r e t h e r e
w a s e x c u lp a t o r y e v i d e n c e w h i c h th e y w e r e a w a r e o f , w h ic h t h e y d i d n o t

Page 120 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m a k e p a r t o f th e r e c o r d o f d e c is io n .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

S o w h o d r a f te d t h e p r o s e c u t io n

memorandum?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir it w a s i n it i a l ly

m y u n d e r s t a n d in g th a t M a h e m a d r a f t e d t h e p r o s e c u ti o n m e m o r a n d u m
a n d N o k o d i d t h e P o w e r P o i n t p r e s e n t a ti o n . W h e n I a d d r e s s e d i t in m y
r e v ie w a p p li c a t io n t h e r e s p o n s e fr o m M a h e m a w a s t h a t h e d id b o th
w h ic h i n my v i e w e x a c e r b a t e s h is p r o b l e m b e c a u s e th e p r o s e c u t io n
10

m e m o r a n d u m a n d th e P o w e r P o i n t p r e s e n t a ti o n i ts e l f a r e a t o d d s w i t h
e a c h o t h e r, I c a n n o t s e e h o w i t c o u ld h a v e b e e n d o n e b y t h e s a m e
p e r s o n b u t i f I g iv e h i m t h e b e n e f it o f t h e d o u b t b o th c o n ta i n
f a ls e h o o d s , m is r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s a n d o m i s s i o n s .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

And

who

a u th o r is e d

your

prosecution?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th a t p r o s e c u ti o n w a s

t h e n a u t h o r is e d b y a d v o c a te S h a u n A b r a h a m s .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

That was the second.

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

the

second

one

C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

A n d t h e fir s t ?

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th e

f ir s t

one

was

authorised by advocate Nomgcobo Jiba.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o w G e n e r a l B o o y s e n .. .( i n t e r v e n ti o n ) .
CHAIRPERSON:

S o – b u t b o t h p r o s e c u ti o n s w e r e s ti ll a b o u t t h e s a m e

Page 121 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
thing?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h e s a m e t h i n g C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

Ja, okay thank you.

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

So

ju s t

to

make

sure

I

too

u n d e r s t a n d , y o u ’r e s a y in g th a t th e s a m e p r o s e c u ti o n m e m o r a n d u m
t o g e th e r

with

th e

same

p r e s e n t a ti o n

is

what

informed

both

a u t h o r i s a t io n s ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
10

Ye s C h a ir.

Okay now General Booysen, why

w o u ld a d v o c a t e N o k o a n d a d v o c a te M a h e m a i n c l u d e f a l s e h o o d s i n
d o c u m e n ts t h a t t h e y a r e – t h a t t h e y c o m p il e d f o r p r e s e n t a t i o n in s u c h a
s e r io u s p r o c e e d in g ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
s t a te m e n t ,

I

deal

with

a

s p e c i fi c

chapter

C h a ir
if

I

can

in
c a ll

my
it

t h a t . . .( i n te r v e n t io n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

T h a t ’s t h e s t a te m e n t b e f o r e u s ?

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
t h a t ’s b e fo r e y o u r s e l f C h a ir.

T h a t’s t h e s t a t e m e n t

I d e a l s p e c i f ic a l ly w it h a n u m b e r o f

p r o s e c u t o r s w h ic h I f ir m ly b e l i e v e d id t h i n g s a t t h e b e h e s t o f c e r t a in
20

in d i v i d u a ls w h ic h I w i ll e l a b o r a t e o n w h e n I te s ti fy o n t h a t c h a p t e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Advocate Mahema

and advocate Noko were both part of that group.
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 122 of 258

C h a ir it ’s n o t th e o n ly

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
ti m e t h a t M a h e m a l i e d .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W h e n th e – a d v o c a t e

J ib a w a s – th e r e w a s a n i n v e s t i g a t io n a g a i n s t h e r c o n s e q u e n t to t h e
G o v e r n j u d g m e n t s h e w a s c h a r g e d w i th fr a u d a n d I t h i n k d e fe a ti n g t h e
e n d s o f ju s tic e a n d p e r j u r y.

A d v o c a t e M a h e m a m a d e a s t a te m e n t in

f a v o u r o f a d v o c a t e J i b a i n t h a t s t a t e m e n t h e a l s o t e l ls a b la t a n t li e . H e
s a y s i n t h a t s ta t e m e n t th a t a w i t n e s s w a s k il le d . H e k n o w s fu ll w e l l t h e
w i t n e s s w a s n e v e r k i ll e d , t h e w i t n e s s d i e d o f n a t u r a l c a u s e s , h e k n o w s
10

it b e c a u s e w e b r o u g h t t h a t t o h i s a t t e n ti o n in m y f ir s t r e v i e w a p p l ic a ti o n
a g a in s t J i b a , y e t m u c h la t e r i n a n a ff id a v i t i n s u p p o r t o f a d v o c a te J ib a
h e s a y s th e w i t n e s s w a s k i ll e d .
CHAIRPERSON :

A n d d i d h e e v e r p r o v i d e a n y b a s is fo r s a y in g t h a t ,

t h a t w i t n e s s w a s k i ll e d a t a n y s t a g e , a s f a r a s y o u k n o w ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir, n o h e j u s t

m e n ti o n s i n t h a t s ta t e m e n t t h a t a w i tn e s s w a s k il l e d .

I think for the

uninformed

come

who

would

read

that statement

would

to

the

c o n c l u s i o n th e p e r s o n w a s k il le d b y K a t o M a n o r a l t h o u g h h e d o e s n o t
s a y t h a t in h i s s ta t e m e n t.
20

CHAIRPERSON :

So – but you say it would be easy for somebody to

t h i n k th a t w a s – th a t ’s w h a t h e i n t e n d e d s a y i n g b u t y o u s a y h e d o e s n ’ t
s a y s o e x p r e s s ly ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h a t ’s m y p o s i ti o n o n
t h a t p o in t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s b u t y o u s a y a s a m a tt e r o f fa c t th a t w it n e s s d i e d

Page 123 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
o f n a tu r a l c a u s e s a n d t h i s w a s b r o u g h t t o h is a t te n ti o n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir a s a m a tt e r o f

f a c t r i g h t – w i th t h e f ir s t r e v i e w a p p l ic a t io n , I t h i n k i t w a s m y
s u p p l e m e n t a r y a ff id a v i t w e t o l d h i m t h a t t h is w i tn e s s h a s d ie d , h e e v e n
d e n ie d t h a t t h e w i t n e s s w a s d e a d . I s e n t s o m e o n e t o t h e H o m e A ff a ir s
t o o b ta in a c o p y o f h is d e a t h c e r ti fi c a t e .

I t ’s c le a r fr o m t h e d e a t h

c e r t if ic a te th a t h e d ie d o f n a t u r a l c a u s e s . I th e n , in a f u r th e r a ffi d a v i t ,
t o l d h i m , h e r e ’s t h e d e a t h c e r t if ic a te c le a r ly in d i c a t in g t h e m a n d i e d o f
n a t u r a l c a u s e b u t in s u p p o r t in g J i b a i n a c r i m i n a l i n v e s ti g a t i o n a g a in s t
10

h e r, h e s a y s a w i tn e s s w a s k il le d a n d h e r e fe r s to t h a t s p e c if ic w it n e s s
( in d is ti n c t) .
CHAIRPERSON :

Thank you.

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Then

–

if

you

could

t h e n . .. ( i n te r v e n t io n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

I lo o k s li k e w e h a v e r e a c h e d th e p o in t f o r t h e l u n c h

break.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s C h a ir.

Ye s , w e ’ ll t a k e th e l u n c h b r e a k a n d r e s u m e a t t w o ,

we adjourn.
20

I N Q U I RY A D J O U R N S
I N Q U I RY R E S U M E S
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y y o u m a y p r o c e e d M s S e p t e m b e r.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

To q u i c k l y

a d d r e s s s o m e o f t h e p r e l i m i n a r y m a t t e r s t h a t w e r e r a i s e d b e fo r e w e
a d j o u r n e d w e a r e s t il l w a i t in g fo r a c o p y o f th e c o v e r in g l e t te r.

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : W h ic h i s c u r r e n t ly i n p r o c e s s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d th e n in r e l a ti o n t o E x h i b i t
Z[H] and [I].
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : G e n e r a l B o o y s e n h a s lo o k e d a t
t h e s e i n p a r ti c u la r i ty – i n p a r t ic u l a r d e ta il a n d in d o i n g s o i t i s
u n d e r s t o o d t h a t h i s le t t e r o f r e s p o n s e ta k e s i s s u e b y a n d l a r g e w i th
10

m a jo r i ty o f w h a t i s c o n t a i n e d i n A d v o c a t e N o k o ’s l e tt e r b u t I w il l l e a v e i t
t o h is e v i d e n c e t o g iv e t h e d e t a il s t o t h a t .
CHAIRPERSON :

J a w e l l l e t u s h e a r w h a t a r e th o s e ?

What were the

r e a s o n s g iv e n a n d t h e n l e t u s d e a l w i t h e a c h o n e .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :
Booysen.

I f I c a n t h e n th r o u g h G e n e r a l

G e n e r a l B o o y s e n i f y o u c a n r e f e r to E x h ib i t Z [H ] o k a y. A s

p r e v i o u s ly p l a c e d o n r e c o r d th is is i n f a c t a l e tt e r o r a m e m o r a n d u m
r a th e r f r o m A d v o c a te N o k o d a t e d 2 1 O c t o b e r 2 0 1 4 i n w h ic h it is
20

documented

th a t s h e

had

p r e v i o u s ly

p r o v i s i o n a lly

withdrawn

th e

c o r r u p ti o n s c h a r g e s a g a in s t M r To s h a n P a n d a y a n d C o lo n e l N a v in
M a d h o e a n d in d o i n g s o s e t s o u t t h e s u b s t a n t i a t i o n i n r e l a ti o n t o t h a t
d e c is i o n b e lo w fr o m p a r a g r a p h 2 o n w a r d s .

H a v in g c o n s i d e r e d t h is

p a r t ic u l a r d o c u m e n t c a n y o u p l e a s e i n fo r m t h e C h a ir a s t o th e d e t a il o f
s u b s t a n t ia t io n ?

Page 125 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I h a d a l o o k a t
A d v o c a t e N o k o ’s m e m o r a n d u m .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSE N:

Except for two

paragraphs which are very generic and…
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

W h i c h is c o m m o n

c a u s e b e t w e e n t h e t w o p a r t ie s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t a k e is s u e w i t h e v e r y
point that she makes.
C H A I R P E R S O N : E v e r y p o i n t. Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

In t h i s m e m o r a n d u m

C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . W h e r e is th e fir s t r e a s o n t h a t s h e g iv e s in t h e
p o i n t s l e t u s d e a l w i th t h a t a n d t h e n y o u c a n r e f e r to y o u r …
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t w i ll b e 2 .3 C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : 2.3 ja.

Okay what was that reason?

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
20

C h a ir s h e b a s i c a ll y

t a lk s a b o u t c a s e 7 8 1 w a s d e a l t w i t h b y t h e S p e c ia li s e d C o m m e r c ia l
Crime Unit in Durban.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d c a s e 7 8 1 is t h e P a n d a y c a s e ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : P a n d a y c a s e C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I d o n o t …

Page 126 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W o u l d t h e C h a ir w a n t
me to read the…
C H A I R P E R S O N : I f th a t i s …
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : M a k e s i t [i n d is t in c t] .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u c a n r e a d it ja .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : O k a y th a n k y o u C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : I f th a t i s t h e b e s t w a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : She says:
10

“Case

781

was

dealt

w i th

by

the

S p e c ia li s e d

C o m m e r c i a l C r i m e U n i t i n D u r b a n a n d d is p o s e d o f
r e c e n t ly w i t h a d e c i s i o n n o t t o p r o s e c u te a n y o n e a s
t h e r e w a s n o e v id e n c e t o p r o s e c u t e a n y p e r s o n f o r
a n y o ffe n c e .

It has been revealed by the SCCU

w h ic h is t h e S p e c ia li s e d C o m m e r c i a l C r i m e U n i t th a t
t h e S A P S m e m b e r s w h o w e r e c h a r g e d w i th t h e
in v e s t i g a t io n o f t h i s 7 8 1 c a s e w a s g u n n i n g f o r t h e
p r o s e c u t i o n o f a s p e c i fi c p e r s o n [ K w a Z u l u N a t a l
S A P S P r o v i n c ia l C o m m is s i o n e r L i e u t e n a n t G e n e r a l
20

N g o b e n i ] a n d Mr P a n d a y a n d C o l M a d h o e w e r e b e in g
p r e s s u r is e d

to

f a l s e ly

i m p li c a t e

her

in

the

c o m m i s s io n o f c r i m i n a l o ffe n c e s w i t h a p r o m is e t h a t
t h e y w i ll b e e x o n e r a te d i n 7 8 1 .

When the SAPS

in v e s t i g a t o r s r e a li s e d th a t t h e P C c a n n o t b e c h a r g e d
in t h is c a s e [ 7 8 1 ] s i m p l y b e c a u s e th e r e

Page 127 of 258

is n o

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
e v i d e n c e a g a i n s t h e r o n e I O r e p o r te d l y s a id t h e
S C C U p r o s e c u to r m a y a s w e ll j u s t c l o s e h e r 7 8 1
case.

I t a p p e a r s Mr P a n d a y a n d C o lo n e l M a d h o e

f e a t u r e d n o w h e r e in th e 7 8 1 t h e n a s th e f o c u s w a s
o n t h e P C o n e t h e n m a y a s k a q u e s ti o n .

Why was

C o l o n e l M a d h o e a r r e s t e d in t h e 4 6 6 c a s e ? ”
T h e 4 6 6 t h a t is th e a t t e m p t to b r i b e m y s e l f C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
“ Wa s t h is l a w f u lly j u s ti f ie d a r r e s t o r w a s i t a w a y t o

10

p r e s s u r is e h i m t o i m p lic a t e t h e P C a s h e , C o l o n e l
M a d h o e e v e n m e n ti o n s i n h i s r e p r e s e n t a ti o n th a t h e
w a s b e i n g ir r e g u la r ly in t e r v ie w e d b y t h e i n v e s t ig a ti n g
o ffic e r s s o a s to fa ls e l y i n c r i m i n a te t h e P C w h i c h h e
fl a tl y r e f u s e d . ”
M y r e s p o n s e to t h a t C h a ir is :
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
“ I r e s p e c tf u lly d i s a g r e e w i th t h e s u b m is s i o n s ”
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d th a t is in w h a t p a r a g r a p h in y o u r …
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t w i ll b e p a r a g r a p h
3 C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y y e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
m y r e s p o n s e I w r o t e C h a ir.

Page 128 of 258

Of my response. So

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
“ I r e s p e c t f u l ly
Advocate

Noko

d is a g r e e
that

w it h

there

t h e s u b m is s i o n

was

no

by

e v id e n c e

to

p r o s e c u t e a n y p e r s o n w i t h a n y o ffe n c e i n t h e m a i n
in v e s t i g a t io n p e r t a i n i n g t o t h e R 6 0 m i lli o n c o r r u p ti o n .
T h e r e f e r e n c e n u m b e r i n th is c a s e is D u r b a n C e n tr a l
C A S 7 8 1 /9 / 2 0 0 1 . It is m y s u b m is s io n t h a t t h e r e is a
p r i m a fa c i e c a s e a g a i n s t To s h a n P a n d a y, C o l o n e l
Navin Madhoe as well as Captain Ashwin Narain
Parsad.
10

F o r p u r p o s e s o f th is s u b m is s i o n I r e fr a i n

fr o m d e t a i li n g t h e e v id e n c e i n t h i s m a t t e r s a v e to s a y
t h a t i t c o n ta in s in e x c e s s o f 2 0 le v e r a r c h f il e s o f
d o c u m e n ts m o r e th a n 2 0 0 a ffi d a v i ts a s w e l l a s a
f o r e n s ic a u d i t r e p o r t c o m p i le d b y a n in d e p e n d e n t
g r o u p o f a u d i t o r s n a m e ly P r i c e Wa t e r h o u s e C o o p e r.
I

fi n d

it

o b j e c ti o n a b le

that

the

S p e c ia li s e d

C o m m e r c i a l C r i m e U n i t fr o m h e r o ff ic e s e e k s t o
e n t e r t a i n a n d a t t a c h c r e d i b il i ty t o t h e c l a i ms o f th e
s u s p e c ts in t h is m a t t e r. Q u it e h o w i t w a s – q u i t e h o w
it w a s r e v e a l e d b y t h e S C C U t h a t S A P S m e m b e r s
20

c h a r g e d w i t h th e i n v e s t ig a ti o n o f D u r b a n C e n tr a l C A S
7 8 1 w a s g u n n i n g fo r K Z N P r o v i n c i a l C o m m i s s io n e r
Lieutenant

General

Ngobeni

is

u n c l e a r.

This

i m p u t a ti o n in n o t s u p p o r te d b y a n y e v i d e n c e o t h e r
t h a n th e c o n tr iv e d v e r s io n o f t h e s u s p e c t t h e m s e l v e s .
I f o r o n e h a v e n e v e r e x p r e s s e d a n y d e s ir e to b e c o m e

Page 129 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
the Provincial Commissioner of KZN and neither have
I a p p l i e d f o r th is p o s i t io n b e f o r e . I n m y v ie w th is is
a f a l la c i o u s a r g u m e n t s i n c e t h e ir r e g u l a r i t ie s t h a t
w e r e i n v e s t ig a t e d o c c u r r e d b e f o r e t h e – b e f o r e t h e
2010…”
C H A I R P E R S O N : B e f o r e t h e a p p o i n t m e n t? O h b e f o r e t h e 2 0 1 0 S o c c e r
W o r l d C u p is th a t r ig h t?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
“ T h e in v e s t i g a t io n f o c u s s e d o n ir r e g u la r i t ie s b e f o r e t h e – b e f o r e h e r
a p p o i n t m e n t a s Pr o v in c i a l C o m m i s s i o n e r. I t is t h u s l u d ic r o u s to b e li e v e
t h a t th e s u s p e c ts i . e . P a n d a y a n d M a d h o e i n t h i s r e g a r d .

The

in v e s t i g a t in g o ffi c e r c o u l d n o t h a v e a t te m p te d t o f a ls e ly i m p l ic a te t h e
P r o v i n c ia l C o m m i s s i o n e r f o r a c r i m e t h a t to o k p l a c e b e fo r e s h e
assumed the post.

H e r in v o lv e m e n t in t h e m a t t e r r e l a te s t o t h e

a tt e m p ts b y h e r t o i n t e r f e r e w i t h t h e in v e s t ig a ti o n a f te r th e – s h e
a s s u m e d h e r p o s i t io n a s Pr o v in c i a l C o m m is s io n e r a n d n o t w i th r e g a r d
t o t h e p r o c u r e m e n t i r r e g u l a r i ti e s p e r s e .
20

The conclusion by Advocate

N o k o t h a t n e it h e r P a n d a y n o r M a d h o e f e a tu r e s a n y w h e r e a n d I w r o t e
t h e r e n o w h e r e v e r b a ti m ”
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
“ Is m a n i f e s t ly w r o n g a n d t h i s c o n c l u s i o n o u g h t to b e
c h a l le n g e d .

Th e r e is o v e r w h e l m in g e v id e n c e t o

Page 130 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
s u p p o r t a c o n v e r s e c o n c lu s i o n .

T h e q u e s ti o n b y

Advocate Noko as to why Madhoe was arrested in a
s u b s e q u e n t a t t e m p t t o b r ib e m e i s r a th e r r h e t o r ic a l.
A r e a d i n g o f c a s e 4 6 6 th a t is t h e a tt e m p t t o b r i b e m e
w i ll d e m o n s t r a t e b e y o n d d o u b t t h a t A d v o c a te N o k o ’s
r e a s o n in g

is

f a l la c i o u s

and

wrong.

I

fi n d

it

r e p r e h e n s i b le t h a t t h e s u s p e c ts ’ v e r s i o n o f e v e n ts is
preferred by Advocate Noko.

Th is is a w o r r y in g

p r e c e d e n t. ”
10

O k a y C h a ir th e n th e n e x t o n e .
CHAIRPERSON :
u n d e r s t a n d in g

Ye s s o b u t le t u s j u s t g e t t h is o n e c l e a r.
correct

that

what

Advocate

Noko

was

Is m y

s a y in g

in

p a r a g r a p h 2 .3 w h ic h y o u h a v e a lr e a d y r e a d o f h e r m e m o r a n d u m is t h a t
1 . T h e r e is n o e v i d e n c e a g a in s t P a n d a y a n d M r P a n d a y a n d C o l o n e l
M a d h o e to p r o s e c u te t h e m a n d
2 . T h a t t h o s e w h o w e r e i n v e s t i g a t in g th a t c a s e w e r e a c t u a l ly
p r e s s u r is i n g

th e m

to

i m p lic a t e

–

to

f a ls e l y

i m p l ic a t e

the

P r o v i n c ia l C o m m i s s io n e r o f S A P S .
Is m y u n d e r s ta n d i n g c o r r e c t?
20

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : That is what she is saying.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

Th a t is w h a t s h e is

s a y in g C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d y o u r r e s p o n s e is t h e r e is a m p l e e v i d e n c e a n d y o u
s a y th e r e a r e m o r e t h a n w h a t e v e r t h e n u m b e r is o f le v e r a r c h f il e s o f

Page 131 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
e v i d e n c e a n d i n t h i s p a r a g r a p h s h e h a s n o t s a i d a n y t h i n g a b o u t h a v in g
lo o k e d a t th a t e v i d e n c e , i s t h a t r i g h t ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y. C o n ti n u e .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :

C h a ir t h e n in h e r

p a r a g r a p h 2 .4 o f Ex h i b it Z [ H ] s h e w r it e :
“ T h e S C C U r e v e a l e d t h e s c h e m i n g a n d i n te r c e p ti n g
o f p h o n e c a ll s o f i n t e r a l ia M r P a n d a y w i t h a m o ti v e
a n d a g e n d a t o f a l s e ly i m p l ic a te c e r ta i n p e o p l e . T h e y
10

a l le g e d ly e v e n w e n t f u r th e r t o e v e n b o a s t t o M r
P a n d a y t e l li n g h i m t h a t t h e y k n o w w h a t t h e d e fe n c e
in t h e 7 8 1 c a s e w i ll b e a s t h e y h e a r d h i s d is c u s s io n
w i t h t h e l e g a l r e p r e s e n ta t iv e t h r o u g h th e i n te r c e p t e d
c a l ls .”
T h e n m y r e s p o n s e to t h a t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y y o u r r e s p o n s e .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : M y r e s p o n s e C h a ir i s :
“ Q u it e n o w th e S C C U r e v e a l e d t h e s c h e m in g a n d
in t e r c e p t i n g o f p h o n e c a ll s o f in t e r a l i a M r P a n d a y

20

w i t h a m o ti v e a n d a g e n d a t o f a l s e ly i m p lic a te c e r ta in
p e o p l e i n m y o p in i o n is a m y s te r y.

T h e [i n d is t in c t]

a n d t o n e o f A d v o c a t e N o k o ’s a s s e r t io n s i n t h is
paragraph
e x a m in e d .

is

indeed

w o r r y in g

and

ought to

be

In h e r o w n w o r d s t h e r e is n o p r o o f o f

P a n d a y ’s c l a i m s a s s h e r e fe r s to m e r e a ll e g a ti o n s .

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
H e r p r e fe r e n c e o f b e l ie v i n g t h e s u s p e c ts v e r s io n
o v e r th e p o l ic e ’s v e r s io n r a i s e s to m y m i n d t h e
q u e s t io n o f s e r i o u s i m p r o p r i e ty.”
CHAIRPERSON :

O f c o u r s e g e n e r a ll y s p e a k i n g t h e r e w o u l d b e n o

p r o b le m w i t h a p r o s e c u t o r o r D P P w h e n l o o k i n g a t a p a r ti c u l a r c a s e a n d
t h e y l o o k a t t h e i n v e s ti g a ti n g o ffic e r ’s s t a te m e n t a n d s o o n a n d t h e y
lo o k a t th e s t a t e m e n t b y t h e a c c u s e d o r s u s p e c t if h e o r s h e h a s m a d e
o n e . I f t h e y w e r e t o c o m e to a d e c i s i o n i n g o o d f a it h t h a t t h e y b e l ie v e
t h e s u s p e c t ’s v e r s i o n r a th e r t h a n t h e i n v e s ti g a ti n g o ffi c e r s – t h a t
10

g e n e r a l ly s p e a k i n g s h o u l d b e n o p r o b le m .

Yo u h a v e n o q u a r r e l w i t h

t h a t g e n e r a l ly s p e a k i n g ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I d o n o t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I d o n o t.
CHAIRPERSON :

I t is o n ly b e c a u s e o f t h e s p e c if ic c ir c u m s ta n c e s o f

t h is o n e t h a t y o u h a v e a p r o b l e m w i t h th a t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

W e l l C h a ir t h e – a n d

w h y I h a v e a p r o b l e m w i t h t h a t is th e r e a s o n s th a t s h e a d v a n c e s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

MAJOR

GENERAL

JOHAN

WESSEL

BOOYSEN :

There

is

no

substance.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , j a , j a n o th a t i s – y e s le t u s c o n t i n u e .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : Her paragraph 2.5 of
E x h i b i t Z [H ] .
“ Mr P a n d a y w a s e v e n p r o m is e d b y S A P S m e m b e r s i n

Page 133 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h e 7 8 1 c a s e t h a t i f h e fa ls e l y i m p l ic a te t h e P C th a t
is n o w t h e Pr o v i n c i a l C o m m i s s io n e r t h e y w o u l d g e t
r id o f t h e 4 6 6 c a s e .

I t w a s f u r th e r e x p l a in e d t o M r

P a n d a y t h a t t h e b e n e fi t o f th is s o u g h t i n c r i m i n a t io n
f o r t h e P C f o r t h e m S A P S m e m b e r s w il l b e th a t t h e
P C w i ll b e f o r c e d t o r e s i g n a n d t h e n M a j o r G e n e r a l
Booysen

w il l

C o m m i s s i o n e r.

become

th e

Fu r t h e r

next
Major

KZN

Pr o v i n c i a l

General

Deena

M o o d l e y w o u ld r e m a in in c o n tr o l o f t h e S e c r e t fu n d .”
10

A n d my r e s p o n s e t o th a t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n E x h ib i t 2 [ I ] .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
“ O t h e r t h a n t h e c l a i m a n t s b y t h e s u s p e c ts i n t h is
m a t t e r w h o h a d m u c h t o l o s e h a d t h e i n v e s t ig a ti o n
le d t o a p r o s e c u ti o n a n d c o n v e r s e ly m u c h to g a i n
s h o u l d t h e y h a v e m a n a g e d t o d e r a i l th e i n v e s t ig a ti o n
t h e r e i s n o e v i d e n c e w h a ts o e v e r t o r e m o t e ly s u p p o r t

20

h e r c l a i m s c o n t a in e d i n t h i s p a r a g r a p h . In a n y e v e n t
w h y w o u ld th e Pr o v in c i a l C o m m i s s io n e r b e f o r c e d t o
r e s ig n i f s h e k n e w t h e e v i d e n c e a g a i n s t h e r w e r e
c o n tr i v e d ? Fu r th e r m o r e t h e r e is n o g u a r a n te e t h a t I
w o u ld s u c c e e d h e r a s a P r o v i n c i a l C o m m i s s io n e r
p r e s u p p o s i n g t h a t s h e h a d r e s ig n e d . F o r t h is o r a n y

Page 134 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
o th e r

reason

he

vacant p ost would

have

been

a d v e r t is e d a n d p r o s p e c tiv e c a n d id a t e s e v a l u a t e d f o r
p o s s i b le a p p o i n t m e n t .

I t is m y s u b m i s s i o n t h a t

P a n d a y a n d C o m p a n y h a v e fa il e d to c o m p r o m is e m e .
They

have

a t t e m p te d

to

have

the

i n v e s t ig a ti o n

s t o p p e d . T h e D e p u ty N a t i o n a l C o m m i s s i o n e r fo r t h e
H a w k s L ie u t e n a n t G e n e r a l D r a m a t is a u f a it w i t h th e
d e t a i l . W h e n th is a ll e g a t i o n fa il e d t h e y b r o u g h t in a n
u n s u c c e s s f u l a p p lic a ti o n t h e h i g h c o u r t to t h w a r t t h e
10

in v e s t i g a t io n a n d a f te r t h e y f a i le d t o b r i b e m e w i t h
R 2 m il li o n i n c a s h th e y h a v e o b v i o u s ly r u n o u t o f
id e a s .

To n o w s u g g e s t a n a g e n d a b y my s e l f t o

b e c o m e P r o v i n c ia l C o m m i s s io n e r a t t h e e x p e n s e o f
L i e u t e n a n t G e n e r a l N g o b e n i is n o t s u p p o r t e d b y a n y
e v i d e n c e a n d o u g h t to b e r e j e c t e d .

Lieutenant

G e n e r a l N g o b e n i h a s n o c o n tr o l o v e r th e S e c r e t f u n d .
I f I h a d t o s u c c e e d h e r t h e s i t u a ti o n w o u l d r e m a in t h e
same.

To p o s tu la t e th a t M a j o r G e n e r a l M o o d l e y

w o u ld t h e r e f o r e r e m a i n i n c o n tr o l o f t h e S e c r e t f u n d
20

m a k e s n o s e n s e a n d it is i n a n y e v e n t ir r e l e v a n t .”
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . B u t I ju s t w a n t to g o b a c k t o th e f ir s t p a r a g r a p h
t h a t y o u h a v e d e a l t w i th w h i c h c o n t a i n s A d v o c a te N o k o ’s r e a s o n s t h a t
is 2 .3 . A m I c o r r e c t in u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h a t w h a t s h e s a i d i n 2 .3 o f h e r
m e m o r a n d u m i n c l u d e s s a y in g t h e r e w a s n o c a s e in r e l a t i o n t o t h e
b r i b e r y c a s e a g a i n s t C o lo n e l M o o d – M a d h o e o r d i d I m i s u n d e r s t a n d

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h a t ? I n s a y i n g th e r e is n o c a s e d o e s s h e in c l u d e t h a t o n e o r d o e s s h e
n o t in c l u d e t h a t o n e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

C h a ir I t h i n k s h e i s

d e a li n g h e r e w it h t h e m a in R 6 0 m i ll io n c a s e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y th a n k y o u . Ye s l e t u s c o n t in u e .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

And then 2.6 of

N o k o ’s le t t e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
10

“ T h e m a t t e r 7 8 1 m a t te r – t h e 7 8 1 m a t t e r w h ic h f o r m s
t h e b a s is a n d r e a s o n f o r t h e a l l e g e d c o r r u p ti o n o f
M a jo r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n b y C o l o n e l M a d h o e w a s
f o u n d t o b e n o n - e x is t e n t b y th e S C C U . ”
C H A I R P E R S O N : W h a t is s h e s a y i n g t h e r e ? I a m n o t s u r e t h a t I fo ll o w.
A b o u t n o n - e x is t e n t ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I d o n o t – I d o
n o t t h i n k s h e k n o w s w h a t s h e is s a y i n g h e r e . I –
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a I c a n n o t u n d e r s t a n d . Ye s h o w d i d y o u r e s p o n d ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

20

My response thereto

C h a ir w a s : I h a v e d e a l t w i th t h e D u r b a n C e n tr a l C A S 7 8 1 in p a r a g r a p h
3 and that would be my par agraph 2.3 above.
“ T h e s u b m i s s i o n b y A d v o c a t e N o k o I r e p e a t is b a s e d
o n a fa ll a c io u s a r g u m e n t .”
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e n h e r 2 .7 C h a ir.

Page 136 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
“ Ma j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n is th e c o m p l a in a n t a n d t h e
o n ly w i t n e s s in t h e 4 6 6 c a s e a g a i n s t Mr P a n d a y a n d
Colonel Madhoe.

Th e v e r y P a n d a y a n d C o lo n e l

M a d h o e w h o a ll e g e d ly r e fu s e d to p a v e t h e w a y fo r
him

to

become

the

next

KZN

SAPS

P r o v i n c ia l

C o m m i s s i o n e r b y r e f u s i n g t o f a l s e ly i m p l ic a t e th e
c u r r e n t P r o v in c i a l C o m m is s i o n e r L i e u te n a n t G e n e r a l
N g o b e n i .”
2 .7
10

o f m y r e s p o n s e t h e r e t o C h a ir.
“ I a m n o t t h e c o m p la in a n t in th e m a t te r o f D u r b a n
C e n tr a l C A S 4 6 6 t h a t i s t h e b r i b e r y.

Th is is a

d is i n g e n u o u s p r o p o s i t io n b y A d v o c a t e N o k o s o a s to
b u il d a l e g e n d f o r h e r i m p u t a t i o n s c o n ta in e d i n
p a r a g r a p h 2 .8 a n d 2 . 9 i n f o . Fo r o n e t h e s t a te is th e
c o m p la i n t i n th e c o r r u p ti o n m a t te r. I a m m e r e ly o n e
o f t h e m a n y w it n e s s e s . A d v o c a te N o k o c l e a r ly d o e s
n o t u n d e r s t a n d m y r o l e in t h is i n v e s ti g a ti o n .

She

a ls o c h o o s e s t o i g n o r e th e fa c t t h a t t h e D u r b a n
C e n tr a l C A S 7 8 1 in v e s ti g a t io n w a s i n it i a t e d b y n o n e
20

o th e r

than

the

f in a n c i a l

head

B r i g a d ie r L a w r e n c e K e m p .
B r i g a d ie r
a l le g e d
colluded

Kemp
by

knew

A d v o c a te

w i th

C o m m i s s i o n e r.

me

Had

the

province

I t is i n c o n c e iv a b le th a t

about
Noko

to

in

my
unless

discredit
Advocate

Page 137 of 258

a s p ir a ti o n s
he
th e
Noko

as

o b v i o u s ly
P r o v i n c ia l
however

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
b o t h e r e d t o e x a m i n e B r i g a d i e r K e m p ’s s t a te m e n t in
D u r b a n C e n tr a l C A S 7 8 1 s h e w o u l d h a v e e s t a b li s h e d
t h e o r i g in a n d s o u r c e o f t h e e n tir e i n v e s t ig a ti o n .”
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e r 2 . 8 C h a ir.
“ T h e 4 6 6 c a s e , th e b r i b e r y c a s e is in v e s t ig a t e d b y
t h e m e m b e r s o f t h e p o l ic e w h o f a ll u n d e r t h e
c o m m a n d o f B o o y s e n w h o is th e c o m p la i n a n t i n th e
466 case.
10

T h e ir o b j e c ti v e d e a li n g w it h th e c a s e

b e c o m e s q u e s t i o n a b l e e s p e c i a lly w i th t h is – w it h t h e
C a t o M a n o r c a s e c lo u d h a n g in g o v e r t h e ir h e a d s .
T h i s I b e li e v e w o u l d s h a k e t h e ir c r e d ib il i ty a n d th e
c o u r t w o u l d v ie w a l l t h e s e i n fa v o u r o f t h e t w o Mr
Panday and Colonel Madhoe.”
M y r e s p o n s e th e r e to C h a ir.
“ Ad v o c a t e N o k o h a s b e e n [ in d is ti n c t ] in s t a t i n g t h a t
t h e i n v e s ti g a ti n g o ff ic e r s o b je c t iv i ty a r e q u e s ti o n a b l e
e s p e c i a l ly w it h t h e C a t o M a n o r c a s e c l o u d h a n g i n g
o v e r t h e ir h e a d s . T h e i n v e s t ig a ti n g o ffi c e r s i n t h e s e

20

m a t t e r s a r e a s f o l lo w s :”
T h e n I m e n t i o n t h e c a s e n u m b e r s a n d t h e i n v e s ti g a ti n g o ff i c e r s ’ n a m e s .
“ C o l o n e l Vo n L o g g e n b e r g , C o lo n e l D u P l o o y a n d
C o l o n e l H e r b s t . N o n e o f t h e s e i n v e s t ig a ti n g o ff ic e r s
w e r e e v e r a tt a c h e d t o t h e C a t o M a n o r u n i t . T h e y a r e
n o t i m p li c a t e d in th e C a t o M a n o r is s u e a t a ll h e n c e

Page 138 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h e ir c r e d i b i li t y c a n n o t b e q u e s t i o n e d a s i m p l ie d b y
Advocate Noko.

In any event it would appear that

A d v o c a t e N o k o is [ i n d is ti n c t ] t h e fu n c t i o n s o f th e
c o u r ts a s h e r c r e d ib il i ty o f w it n e s s e s o u g h t to b e
pronounced upon by the courts.”
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e r 2 . 9 C h a ir.
“ Ma j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n b e i n g t h e c o m p l a i n a n t i n t h e
4 6 6 c a s e i n t e r fe r e d w i t h a n e x e r c is e c o n tr o l in t h i s
10

case even going to an extent of determining and
d e c i d i n g w h o v i s i ts C o lo n e l M a d h o e w h e n h e w a s
d e t a i n e d i n t h e D u r b a n C e n tr a l p o l ic e c e ll s i n th e 4 6 6
c a s e . Th is i s e x h ib i te d b y th e l e t te r t h a t w a s is s u e d
o n h is d ir e c t i n s tr u c t io n t o t h e D u r b a n C e n tr a l p o l ic e
s t a ti o n B r i g a d ie r V R S t o k e s .

T h i s l e t te r d a t e d

S e p te m b e r 2 0 11 a d d r e s s e d t o a l l r e l i e f c o m m a n d e r s
a n d c e ll c o m m a n d e r s a n d t i tl e d Vi s it a ti o n D u r b a n
C e n tr a l C A S 4 6 6 N M a d h o e p r o v id e d t h a t – p r o v i d e d
t h a t th e … ”
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : P r o v i s e t h a t a n d t h e n q u o te o n t h e d ir e c t i n s tr u c ti o n s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
“On the direct instruction – provided on the direct
in s t r u c t i o n f r o m M a jo r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n o n l y th e
f o ll o w i n g p e r s o n s w e r e a l lo w e d t o v is i t h i m .

One

M a jo r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n a n d M a j o r G e n e r a l M o o d l e y

Page 139 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
e tc e t e r a .

W h a t i s a m a z i n g w i t h t h i s is t h a t M a j o r

G e n e r a l B o o y s e n i s s u e s a n i n s tr u c t io n r e g a r d i n g w h o
m u s t v i s i t a s u s p e c t i n a c a s e t h a t h e is t h e
c o m p la i n a n t in h i m s e l f.

F u r t h e r h e a ls o h a s a

v is it a ti o n r i g h t i n t h is a s i t a p p e a r s i n t h e l e tt e r h i m
b e i n g m e n ti o n e d a s a n u m b e r 1 a m o n g s t t h o s e w h o
a r e a l lo w e d to v is i t C o lo n e l M a d h o e .

B y th e w a y

w h a t w o u l d a c o m p l a i n a n t w a n t t o v is i t a s u s p e c t i n
t h e ir o w n c a s e fo r ?
10

T h a t is u n h e a r d a n d s m a c k s o f

a n a g e n d a .”
M y r e s p o n s e to t h a t C h a ir.
“ Ad v o c a t e N o k o i s s e r i o u s ly m i s g u i d e d t o s u g g e s t
t h a t I i n t e r fe r e d w i th a n e x e r c i s e c o n t r o l i n D u r b a n
CAS 466.

H a d s h e c o m p l ie d w i t h t h e N a ti o n a l

P r o s e c u t in g A u th o r it y P o l ic y g u i d e li n e s s h e w a s a t
li b e r t y t o c o n s u l t w i t h m e t o e s t a b l is h t h e f a c ts w h ic h
I s h a l l d e t a i l n o w.

A s t h e P r o v in c i a l H e a d o f t h e

H a w k s i t is i n c u m b e n t u p o n m e t o e x e r c is e c o n tr o l
o v e r a ll i n v e s t ig a ti o n s c o n d u c t e d b y t h e H a w k s i n
20

KZN.

T h e N a ti o n a l D i r e c to r a t e o f t h e H a w k s w e r e

kept abreast of – that is now Dramat – were kept
a b r e a s t o f a l l d e v e l o p m e n ts i n th is i n v e s ti g a t io n . To
s u g g e s t t h a t I i n t e r f e r e d w i th t h e i n v e s t ig a ti o n i s a k i n
t o s u g g e s t t h a t A d v o c a te N o k o h e r s e l f i s i n te r f e r in g
w i t h th e f u n c ti o n s o f h e r s u b o r d i n a t e s .

Page 140 of 258

There is

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
n o t h i n g m y s t e r io u s r e g a r d i n g m y i n s tr u c t io n w it h
r e g a r d t o v i s i ts t o M a d h o e .

I n i t ia l i n v e s ti g a ti o n s

r e v e a l e d c o m p li c i ty b y o ff ic e r s w i t h i n S A P S . T h i s
e n tr y in t o t h e o c c u r r e n c e b o o k w a s m a d e t o o b v i a t e
a tt e m p ts b y o ffi c e r s w i th m o l li fi e d i n te n ti o n s . I h a v e
d e a lt

w i th

t h is

matter

c o m p la i n a n t a b o v e .

regarding

my

being

the

O n c e a g a i n t h e [ in d i s t in c t ] a n d

t o n e o f A d v o c a t e N o k o ’s c o n te n ti o u s a p p e a r s to b e
that of a defence counsel rather than that of a
10

p r o s e c u t o r.

T h e f a c t th a t I h a d n o t v i s i t e d C o l o n e l

M a d h o e a t a ll s u b s e q u e n t t o h i s a r r e s t o r t h a t I h a v e
n o t p e r s o n a l ly c o m m u n ic a t e d w i th h i m d ir e c t ly o r
in d i r e c t ly

demonstrates

that

Advocate

N o k o ’s

a s s e r t io n th a t i t s m a c k s o f a n a g e n d a i s m is g u i d e d
a n d I r e j e c t i t w i t h c o n t e m p t .”
C H A I R P E R S O N : H ’ m . Ye s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : H e r – A d v o c a t e N o k o ’s p a r a g r a p h 2 . 1 0 .
“ T h e a ll e g a t io n th a t th e a c c u s e d i n 4 6 6 M r P a n d a y
and Colonel Madhoe wanted Major General Booysen
20

t o p r e - d a t e a r e p o r t i n th e 7 8 1 c a s e in o r d e r t o h a v e
t h e S e c ti o n 2 0 5 s u b p o e n a s e t a s i d e [s u b p o e n a s f o r
access

to

the

bank

account

records]

and

c o n s e q u e n t ly b r i b e M a jo r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n t o d o th a t
d o e s n o t r e a l ly h o l d w a t e r b e c a u s e t h e f a c t t h a t i f
t h e r e h a s b e e n a n y c o r r u p ti o n [ b r i b i n g o f M a j o r

Page 141 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ] th a t t o o k p l a c e w o u ld n o t m a k e t h e
c o r r u p ti o n a n d i ts s u c c e s s f u l p r o s e c u ti o n i m p o s s i b l e .
A s S e c ti o n s 3 B a n d 4 [ 1 } B o f th e P r e v e n t io n a n d
C o m b a t ti n g o f C o r r u p t Ac t iv it i e s A c t 1 2 2 0 0 4 s t a t e
t h e a ll e g e d r e p o r t i n t h e 7 8 1 c a s e t h a t i t w a s a l le g e d
w a s to b e a p r e d a te d t o i n v a li d a t e t h e S e c ti o n 2 0 5
s u b p o e n a d i d n o t s u ff ic e t o p r o o f fr a u d o r a n y
o ffe n c e

against

anyone

e s p e c i a l ly

Ma dhoe

and

Panday who are alleged to have bribed Booysen for
10

t h e p r e d a ti n g o f h is v e r y – o f t h i s v e r y r e p o r t . T h is
r e p o r t is m a d e o u t t o b e t h e e v id e n c e i n th e 7 8 1 c a s e
t o p r o v e fr a u d a g a i n s t P a n d a y a n d M a d h o e b u t o n e
w o n d e r s w h y it w o u l d n o t b e s e e n i n t h is w a y b y t h e
S C C U . I f t h e n th e r e i s n o fr a u d t h a t c o u l d b e p r o v e n
b y t h e S C C U in t h e 7 8 1 c a s e w h y w o u ld C o l o n e l
Madhoe and Mr Pa nday bribe Booysen or anyone for
t h a t m a t te r i n r e s p e c t o f 7 8 1 c a s e u s i n g t h is r e p o r t ?
O n e w o u ld e x p e c t t h a t t h e y w o u l d k n o w w h a t i s
c o n ta in e d i n 7 8 1 c a s e a g a i n s t t h e m a s t h e y a r e p a r t

20

o f i t. T h e y w o u ld k n o w w h a t t h e y d id n o t e v e n k n o w
– t h e y w o u ld k n o w w h a t t h e y d id … ”
C H A I R P E R S O N : W h a t th e y d i d …
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
“ T h e y d id t o e v e n k n o w w h a t th is r e p o r t h a s a g a i n s t
t h e m e s p e c i a l ly C o l o n e l M a d h o e w h o w a s t h e n a

Page 142 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
procurement

o ff ic ia l

who

processed

the

a c c o m m o d a ti o n d o c u m e n ts l e a d i n g t o t h e 7 8 1 c a s e .”
M y r e s p o n s e to t h a t C h a ir.
“ Ad v o c a t e N o k o c h o o s e s t o b e d e li b e r a t e ly o b t u s e
f o r o n e t h e r e is in d e e d a s tr o n g p r i m a f a c i e c a s e
a g a in s t M a d h o e a n d P a n d a y i n D u r b a n 7 8 1 .

Th e

[i n d is t in c t] b y C o l o n e l M a d h o e a n d Mr P a n d a y t o
d e r a il t h e i n v e s ti g a t i o n in 7 8 1 e m a n a t e s fr o m t h e
u n s u c c e s s f u l a p p li c a t io n to h a v e t h e S e c ti o n 2 0 5
10

s u b p o e n a s s e t a s id e . A l t h o u g h t h e r e p o r t i n q u e s ti o n
it s e l f d o e s n o t c o n t a i n p r i m a fa c i e e v i d e n c e o f a
c r i m e b e i n g c o m m i t t e d p r e d a ti n g th e r e p o r t t o a d a t e
b e f o r e t h e a p p li c a t i o n f o r t h e S e c ti o n 2 0 5 c a s e h a v e
rendered

th e

2 0 5 ’s

o b t a i n e d i n a d m is s i b l e .

and

subsequent

evidence

In f o r m a t io n i n t h is r e p o r t

c o n ta in e d e v id e n c e g l e a n e d a s a r e s u l t o f t h e 2 0 5 ’s
in o th e r w o r d s i f I h a d p r e d a t e d t h is r e p o r t i t w o u ld
h a v e h a d m e a n t t h a t t h e i n v e s t ig a to r s h a d o b t a i n e d
in f o r m a ti o n l e g a l ly b e f o r e o b ta i n i n g t h e S e c ti o n 2 0 5
20

subpoenas.

A d v o c a te N o k o r i g h tly in d i c a t e d t h a t

C o l o n e l M a d h o e w a s fr o m t h e p r o c u r e m e n t s e c ti o n .
H e h a d i n a d e q u a te l e g a l k n o w l e d g e t o a r g u e th e
p o i n t s r a is e d b y A d v o c a t e N o k o h e r s e n te n c e o n e
w o u ld e x p e c t t h a t t h e y w o u l d k n o w w h a t is c o n t a i n e d
in 7 8 1 c a s e a g a i n s t t h e m a s t h e y a r e p a r t o f it t h e y

Page 143 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
w o u ld k n o w w h a t th e y d i d t o e v e n k n o w w h a t t h i s
r e p o r t h a s a g a i n s t th e m e s p e c i a l ly C o l o n e l M a d h o e
w h o w a s t h e n t h e p r o c u r e m e n t o ff ic ia l w h o p r o c e s s e d
t h e a c c o m m o d a ti o n d o c u m e n t l e a d i n g t o t h e 7 8 1
c a s e a n d t h e n I s a y is i n c o h e r e n t a n d d i ff ic u l t t o
understand.

For

in s t a n c e h o w a n d

why would

P a n d a y a n d M a d h o e k n o w w h a t is c o n ta i n e d in 7 8 1 ?
T h e y w e r e t h e s u s p e c ts in t h e m a t te r n o t t h e
in v e s t i g a t o r s .
10

F u r th e r m o r e t h e y k n e w e x a c tl y w h a t

w a s c o n ta in e d in t h e r e p o r t s in c e t h e y h a d i ll e g a lly
o b t a i n e d i t . Tw o c o p i e s o f t h e r e p o r t w e r e f o u n d in
M a d h o e ’s v e h i c l e o n tw o s e p a r a t e o c c a s i o n s . A t h ir d
c o p y o f t h e r e p o r t h a d f in g e r p r i n ts t h a t m a tc h e d
t h o s e o f P a n d a y o n i t . A ll th is e v i d e n c e is c o n t a in e d
in th e d o c k e ts a n d fo r s o m e u n k n o w n r e a s o n a p p e a r s
n o t t o h a v e b e e n c o n s i d e r e d .”
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL B OOYSEN :

2 .11 o f N o k o ’s

m e m o r a n d u m C h a ir.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERA L JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
“ C o l o n e l M a d h o e a l le g e s t o h a v e m e t w i t h B o o y s e n
a p p r o x i m a te ly

eight

–

on

e ig h t

occasions

at

B o o y s e n ’s i n s t a n c e r e g a r d i n g t h e C a to M a n o r U n it
s h o o t in g s in c i d e n t s b e fo r e t h e 4 6 6 c a s e c a m e i n t o

Page 144 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
b e i n g . I w ill s a y n o m o r e r e g a r d i n g t h i s is s u e a s t h e
C a t o M a n o r m a t te r is s u b - j u d i c e .

This however

in d i c a t e s a h is t o r y o f s o m e s o r t b e i n g s h a r e d b y t h e
t w o . C o lo n e l a n d M a jo r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n . N o w th e y
are

complainant

and

accused

once

a g a in

in

the

466

case

r e s p e c ti v e ly.”
M y r e s p o n s e to t h a t C h a ir.
“ Ad v o c a t e

Noko

prefers

to

e x c lu d e

r e l i a b le e v id e n c e i n D u r b a n C e n tr a l C A S 4 6 6 i n
10

favour

of

Colonel

M a d h o e ’s

a ll e g a t io n s

who

o b v i o u s l y s ta n d s to g a i n b y m a k i n g t h e s e f a l s e
a l le g a ti o n s . Th e r e is o b j e c t iv e e v i d e n c e i n 4 6 6 s u c h
a s c e l l p h o n e to w e r a n d c o m m u n i c a t io n c o r r e la t io n
a n a ly s is o b t a i n e d fr o m c e l l p h o n e r e c o r d s o f C o lo n e l
M a d h o e a n d M r P a n d a y.

S M S ’s s e n t b y C o lo n e l

M a d h o e , a ffi d a v i t s fr o m Br ig a d i e r M a d o n s e l la a n d
S e r g e a n t G o v e n d e r a s w e l l a s th e c e ll p h o n e r e c o r d s
o f C o l o n e l M a d h o e . Mr P a n d a y a n d my s e lf to p r o v e
t h a t t h e c o n v e r s e is i n f a c t tr u e .
20

It was Madhoe in

f a c t c o n t a c t e d m y s e lf o n t h e n u m b e r o f o c c a s i o n s .
T h e o b j e c ti v e e v id e n c e w il l p r o v e t h a t t h e m e e ti n g
t o o k p l a c e b e f o r e t h e s o c a ll e d C a t o M a n o r m a t t e r. I
w o u ld v e n tu r e t o s u g g e s t t h a t b y n o t c o n s id e r in g th e
o b j e c ti v e e v id e n c e a n d to f a v o u r u n s u b s t a n t ia t e d
s u b m is s io n s b y a c c u s e d s m a c k s o f a n a g e n d a i ts e l f.

Page 145 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
I f A d v o c a t e N o k o h a d r e g a r d t o a ll t h e a v a i la b l e
e v i d e n c e a t h e r d is p o s a l s h e w o u l d h a v e c o m e t o a
c o n c l u s i o n – s h e w o u ld n o t h a v e c o m e t o t h e
conclusion she has. Advocate Noko should be aware
t h a t m y i n v o l v e m e n t i n th is C a t o M a n o r m a tt e r is n o t
s u b j u d ic e a n d h a s b e e n d is p o s e d o f i n m y f a v o u r a t
t h e ti m e t h a t G o v e r n h a d r u l e d i n m y f a v o u r c h a ir.”
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
10

“ O n c e a g a in – o n c e a g a i n t h e l a s t s e n te n c e i n t h is
paragraph

in

inverted

commas

“ th is

however

in d i c a t e s a h is to r y o f s o m e s o r t o f – s h a r e d b y
Madhoe and Booysen now they are complainant and
accused

in

the

466

case

r e s p e c t iv e l y.

It

is

in c o h e r e n t a n d d i ffi c u l t t o u n d e r s t a n d .”
12. – 2. 12 of her memorandum.
“ T h e r e is a n a s s u m p ti o n th a t is n o t s u b s t a n t ia t e d b y
e v i d e n c e t h a t Mr P a n d a y is p a r t o f t h e a ll e g e d
b r i b in g o f B o o y s e n a n d M a d h o e . T h is a s s u m p ti o n is
20

d e r iv e d fr o m t h e p o s i t io n th a t t h e y b o t h a r e s u s p e c t s
in 7 8 1 c a s e . T h i s w i ll n o t s t a n d i n c o u r t a s e v i d e n c e
f o r c o r r u p t io n a g a i n s t t h e m . ”
M y r e s p o n s e th e r e to :
“ Ad v o c a t e N o k o f a i ls t o a s c r i b e th e s e a s s u m p t io n s t o
a n y o n e . N e i t h e r t h e i n v e s t ig a t o r s n o r I h a v e c o m e t o

Page 146 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h is a s s u m p t io n .

I f s h e h e r s e l f i s c o m i n g t o th is

a s s u m p t io n s h e o n c e a g a i n f a i ls t o c o n s id e r p r i m a
f a c i e e v i d e n c e in 4 6 6 .

Fo r i n s ta n c e a s t a te m e n t o f

t h e p e r s o n w h o d r e w t h e m o n e y o n b e h a l f o f Mr
P a n d a y. Mr P a n d a y ’s fi n g e r p r i n t s o n t h e d o c u m e n ts
in q u e s t i o n a n d t h e p a p e r s li p s f o u n d a m o n g s t th e
m o n e y o ff e r e d t o m y s e l f w h ic h i s li n k e d t o P a n d a y ’s
b a n k a c c o u n t t o n a m e b u t a fe w.”
T h e n 2 .1 3 o f h e r m e m o r a n d u m .
10

“ T h i s is o n e o f t h o s e y o u r w o r d a g a i n s t m in e k i n d o f
c a s e s a s i t is M a j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ’s w o r d a g a i n s t
M a d h o e ’s .

H o w e v e r S e c t io n 2 0 8 o f T h e C r i m i n a l

P r o c e d u r e A c t o f 1 9 7 7 p r o v i d e s t h a t a c o n v ic ti o n m a y
f o ll o w

on

evidence

of

a

single

witness.

The

c a u ti o n a r y r u l e s m a y b e a p p l ie d b y t h e c o u r t i n t h i s
c a s e e s p e c ia ll y g i v e n th e b a c k g r o u n d o f t h is c a s e
a n d th e c h a ll e n g e t h e r e i s t h a t B o o y s e n h i m s e l f
a l le g e to b e h it t i n g b a c k a t M a d h o e f o r t h e d a m n in g
in f o r m a ti o n t h a t M a d h o e h a s a g a in s t h i m r e l a ti n g t o
20

t h e C a t o M a n o r c a s e . M a d h o e a l le g e s t h a t B o o y s e n
is tr y in g t o s il e n c e h i m w i th t h e a ll e g a t io n o f th e R 2
m il li o n c o r r u p ti o n f o r t h e d a m n i n g i n f o r m a t io n t h a t h e
has

against

him.

A22:

a

C o n s t a b l e S a n d e s h D h a n ir a m

former

c o n f ir m s

SAPS
the

p o s s e s s i o n o f t h e i n fo r m a ti o n a b o u t B o o y s e n b y

Page 147 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C o l o n e l M a d h o e in t h e f o r m o f d is c s .”
A n d my r e s p o n s e t h e r e t o :
“This is not a matter of your wo rd against mine.

If

A d v o c a t e N o k o h a d r e g a r d to a l l t h e e v id e n c e it
w o u ld b e c le a r t o h e r t h a t t h e r e i s n o t o n ly d ir e c t
e v i d e n c e – w i t n e s s e v i d e n c e – b u t a ls o o b j e c t iv e
t e c h n ic a l e v i d e n c e a n d c ir c u m s ta n ti a l e v id e n c e t o
support my version.

No such eviden ce other than

f a ls e a l le g a ti o n s b y t h e s u s p e c ts e x i s t s t o s u p p o r t
10

M a d h o e ’s c l a i ms .
s t a te m e n t

is

Th e r e f e r e n c e t o D h a n ir a m ’s

r a th e r

s u r p r is i n g

as

a

careful

e x a m in a ti o n o f th is s t a t e m e n t a c t u a l ly c o n fir m s m y
v e r s i o n . A d v o c a te N o k o f a i l e d in h e r d u t y t o s tu d y
t h e o u t c o m e o f m y s u c c e s s f u l a p p li c a t i o n in t h e
High Court. See Booysen v NDPP. Had she done
s o s h e w o u l d h a v e r e a li s e d t h a t n o s u c h e v id e n c e
a s p u r p o r t e d b y M a d h o e e x i s t s . I fa il t o u n d e r s t a n d
h o w A d v o c a te N o k o s e e k s t o a c c e p t a n u n t e s t e d
a n d u n f o u n d e d a ll e g a t io n b y a s u s p e c t w h o f a c e s
20

s e r io u s c o n s e q u e n c e s i n t h is r e g a r d . I a ls o q u o t e a
p a s s a g e o f a fi n d i n g b y th e t h e n A p p e a l C o u r t i n
S v Z u m a .”
I d o n o t t h i n k i t i s n e c e s s a r y fo r m e t o q u o t e t h a t C h a ir ?
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . N o s to p th e r e s o r r y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 148 of 258

Then her paragraph

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
2 .1 4 :
“ I f th e l e g a l s tr e n g t h o f t h e S e c ti o n 2 0 5 s u b p o e n a s
were based on the date on the report as it is
a l le g e d h e n c e C o l o n e l M a d h o e w a n te d i t p r e d a te d
t o in v a li d a te t h e s u b p o e n a s .

I t is i n c o n c e iv a b l e

t h a t a n y p e r s o n l e t a lo n e a C o l o n e l i n S A P S a
p e r s o n o f C o l o n e l M a d h o e ’s c a l i b r e w a s w o r k in g o n
t h e s e is s u e s o f p r o c u r e m e n t a t S A P S w o u ld n o t
k n o w t h a t S A P S c o u ld s i m p l y o b ta i n o th e r S e c t io n
10

205

subpoenas

that would

ta ll y w i th

the

new

p r e d a t e d d a t e i n t h e r e p o r t . H i s p r o b l e m w o u ld n o t
h a v e b e e n r e s o lv e d .
w o u ld

he bribe

provide

a

p r o b le m .

Th e r e fo r e o n e m a y a s k w h y

Booysen

permanent

w h e n t h is

s o lu t io n

to

would not
h is

alleged

T h is d a ti n g o f th e r e p o r t w o u l d n o t h a v e

c a u s e d a n y s u b p o e n a s to b e s e t a s i d e b e c a u s e i t is
not evidence to 781.
b e a r in g

as

far

as

Neither does it have any
th e

procedural

steps

and

p r e r e q u i s i t e s f o r o b t a i n i n g a S e c ti o n 2 0 5 s u b p o e n a
20

is c o n c e r n e d . T h i s w a s p r o v e n b y th e S C C U i n th e
7 8 1 c a s e .”
M y r e s p o n s e th e r e to :
“ I d e a l t w i th th is a d e q u a t e ly a b o v e . I w o u l d li k e to
a d d h o w e v e r t h a t A d v o c a te N o k o w r o n g ly a s s u m e s
imputed knowledge of law by Madhoe. She herself

Page 149 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
points out that he works at Procurement who hardly
if e v e r w o r k s w it h S e c ti o n 2 0 5 s u b p o e n a s .

What

c o n c e r n s m e h o w e v e r o f t h is p a r a g r a p h i s o n c e
a g a in t h e t o n e o f h e r a s s e r t io n s . S h e is o n c e a g a i n
d e li b e r a t e ly

obtuse

and

a l le g a ti o n s a g a in s t M a d h o e .

m is c o n c e i v e s

the

I fi n d i t d is q u ie t in g

t h a t th e S C C U 6 t o p r o v e a ll e g a t i o n s b y s u s p e c ts .”
Her paragraph 2.15:
“Further it appears that Bo oysen was not the
10

in v e s t i g a t in g i n t h e 7 8 1 c a s e b u t Va n L o g g e n b e r g
and others.

T h e r e f o r e a q u e s t io n a r is e s t h a t w h y

w o u ld a f a v o u r o f t h e p r e d a ti n g o f t h e r e p o r t th a t
s h o u l d b e i n t h e p o s s e s s i o n o f th o s e w h o a r e
in v e s t i g a t in g 7 8 1 c a s e b e s o u g h t fr o m B o o y s e n n o t
t h e in v e s t i g a t o r s .”
M y r e s p o n s e th e r e to :
“ Ad v o c a t e N o k o

once

a g a in

d e m o n s tr a te s

ig n o r a n c e o f t h e e v i d e n c e a t h e r d is p o s a l .

th e
The

report in question was undated when I received it.
20

I t is c o m m o n p r a c t ic e i n S A P S C o m m u n i c a t io n
P r o t o c o l f o r th e r e c i p ie n t to d a t e s t a m p a n d th e y
s ig n r e p o r t s w h e n t h e y r e c e iv e i t .

I t is th is d a t e

M a d h o e w a n te d m e to p r e d a t e .

The fact that

(background noise)

a p o t e n ti a l w i tn e s s i n t h i s

r e g a r d w a s n o t i n te r v i e w e d i s i n d e e d w o r r y in g .”

Page 150 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
2 .1 6 o f h e r m e m o r a n d u m :
“ T h e c e l lp h o n e r e c o r d s p u r p o r t e d to r e f le c t t h e c a ll s
b e t w e e n P a n d a y a n d M a d h o e d o n o t i n d ic a t e a n y
s p e c i f ic

crime

having

been

planned.

It

is

h a p h a z a r d c o n v e r s a ti o n s w it h s l a n g a n d p r o fa n e
la n g u a g e b e t w e e n th e tw o p e o p l e t h a t o n e c a n n o t
r e a l ly m a k e o u t w h a t is s u e w a s b e i n g d is c u s s e d a s
a l o t o f d i ff e r e n t is s u e s w e r e b e i n g s p o k e n a b o u t .
More
10

e s p e c i a l ly

a

criminal

o ffe n c e

cannot

be

d e d u c e d a s c o n s ti t u t e d b y th e f a c t fr o m t h e ir
c o n v e r s a ti o n s i n th e c e l lp h o n e r e c o r d s a v a i la b le . A
q u e s t io n m a y b e a s k e d th a t o n w h a t b a s i s w a s a n
in f e r e n c e d r a w n b y th e p o l ic e i n v e s ti g a t o r s t h a t
t h e s e c o n v e r s a t io n s p e r t a i n e d t o o r c o n s ti t u te a
criminal

o ff e n c e

s p e c i f ic a l ly
Booysen.

th a t

b e in g
they

p la n n e d
were

by

the

p la n n i n g

to

couple
bribe

T h e a l le g e d a u t h o r i ty t o in t e r c e p t t h e

c a l ls f o r w h ic h M a d h o e a n d P a n d a y c a l ls a r e
a l le g e d t o h a v e b e e n r e c o r d e d w a s i s s u e d d u r i n g
20

J u n e 2 0 11

for

June

to

S e p te m b e r 2 0 11 .

T h is

a p p e a r s to g o w a y b e fo r e th e 4 6 6 c a s e . T h i s t h e n
ti e s u p w i t h w h a t t h e S C C U h a s r e v e a l e d th a t
p e o p l e ’s c a l ls w e r e b e in g r e c o r d e d a n d t h e p e r i o d
t a ll i e s w i t h t h e 7 8 1 c a s e r a t h e r t h a n t h e 4 6 6 . O n e
t h e n w o n d e r s i f th e 7 8 1 r e c o r d in g s a r e n o t u t il is e d

Page 151 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
in a n o t h e r c a s e – t h e 4 6 6 c a s e w h i c h is n o t
p e r m is s ib l e . ”
A n d my r e s p o n s e t h e r e t o C h a ir :
“ Ad v o c a t e N o k o I r e s p e c t fu ll y s u b m i t c o u ld n o t h a v e
lis t e n e d t o a ll th e r e c o r d s b e tw e e n P a n d a y a n d
Madhoe.

Her

c o n c lu s i o n

o t h e r w is e

w o u ld

be

ir r a t i o n a l a n d s u b j e c t iv e . I t i s e v i d e n t th a t s h e h a s
c o n s i d e r e d s o m e o f th e r e c o r d i n g s to t h e e x c lu s i o n
o f o t h e r s w h ic h m a y v e r y w e ll h a v e r e s u l t e d i n t h e
10

wrong

c o n c l u s io n .

It

is

common

cause

that

P a n d a y ’s c a lls w e r e i n t e r c e p t e d p r io r t o t h e 4 6 6
case.

In a n y e v e n t i f s h e w o u l d a r g u e t h a t th e

r e c o r d i n g s a r e a d m is s ib l e i t d o e s n o t r e n d e r t h e m
ill e g a l .

F u r t h e r m o r e t h e r e is e n o u g h p r i m a f a c ie

e v i d e n c e to s e c u r e a s u c c e s s f u l p r o s e c u ti o n in
4 6 6 . . .”
T h a t is a b r ib e r y c a s e .
“ … w i t h o u t p r e s e n t i n g th e A c t 1 7 d e c e p ti o n s a s
evidence.
20

v ie w

This I understand was the stance and

of the

i n v e s ti g a to r.

In

conclusion

i t is

unfortunate that Advocate Noko seeks to accuse me
o f h a v in g a n a g e n d a in t h e s e in v e s ti g a t i o n s . Ev e n
if i t is w a s tr u e a n d I d e n y t h is s tr e n u o u s l y th e A D S
p r o n o u n c e d i t s e l f a d e q u a t e ly i n th is r e g a r d .”
T h e n I r e f e r t o a q u o t a t i o n fr o m t h e c a s e o f Mr Z u m a .

Page 152 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
“ I s u s p e c t th a t th e c o n v e r s e i s t r u e .

T h is m a t te r

h a s b e e n o u ts ta n d i n g f o r m o r e t h a n tw o y e a r s .

I

t h i n k i t is n o c o i n c i d e n c e t h a t t h is c o i n c id e s w i th
t h e r e n e w a l o f P r o v in c i a l C o m m i s s i o n e r ’s c o n tr a c t .”
T h a t w a s t h e P r o v i n c ia l C o m m i s s io n e r N g u b e n i . H is f iv e y e a r c o n tr a c t
h a d e x p ir e d C h a i r a n d th is – t h is r e p o r t b y A d v o c a te N o k o c o i n c id e d
w i t h t h e r e n e w a l o f h e r c o n tr a c t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

“ Th e

fa c t

t h a t A d v o c a t e N o k o h a s fa il e d to r e t u r n t h e c a s e
d o c k e t t o t h e in v e s ti g a t in g o ff ic e r s a n d s p i t e a
request by him and
d is m i s s a l

leaves

th e s u b s e q u e n t ti m i n g o f

me

w i th

th is

i n e s c a p a b le

c o n c l u s i o n .”
And then I request:
“ I h e r e b y r e q u e s t y o u t o s u m m o n a ll th e r e l e v a n t
d o c u m e n ts

to

your

o ffi c e

and

to

have

same

e v a l u a t e d b y a n in d e p e n d e n t t e a m fr o m y o u r o ffi c e .
T h i s is s u e h a s b e e n w i d e l y r e p o r t e d in t h e lo c a l
20

m e d i a . I t h a s d r a w n v a r io u s n e g a tiv e r e m a r k s fr o m
t h e p u b li c a n d c o m m e r c e . It is in t h e b e s t i n t e r e s t
o f th e j u d ic i a l s y s te m , t h e N a ti o n a l P r o s e c u ti n g
A u t h o r i ty,

the

S o u th

A f r ic a n

P o l ic e

S e r v ic e ,

M r P a n d a y, C o l o n e ls M a d h o e a n d N a r a i n p e r s a d f o r
t h e s e is s u e s t o b e v e n t il a t e d i n a n a p p r o p r ia t e

Page 153 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m a n n e r o n c e a n d f o r a l l .”
CHAIRPERSON :

So

in

her

c o n c lu s io n

in

her

memorandum

A d v o c a t e N o k o a m o n g o th e r t h in g s s a y s th a t s h e h a s d e c id e d t o
d e c l in e to p r o s e c u te C o l o n e l M a d h o e a n d Mr P a n d a y fo r c o r r u p ti o n o r
a n y o ff e n c e i n t h e 4 6 6 c a s e . S h e s a y s :
“ T h i s is d u e t o l a c k o f r e a s o n a b l e p r o s p e c ts o f a
s u c c e s s fu l

p r o s e c u t io n

s u b s t a n t ia t e d a b o v e .

as

explained

and

Further there appears to be

a g e n d a s a m o n g th e p a r t i e s a n d t h e s c o r e is t o b e
10

s e t tl e d . ”
S o – b u t w i th – w i t h r e g a r d t o t h e M a d h o e c o r r u p ti o n c a s e - j u s t t o g o
b a c k – y o u r e v i d e n c e w a s t h a t h e w a s a r r e s t e d a t t h e t i m e w h e n th e
a c t u a l m o n e y t h a t h e h a d b r o u g h t t o y o u a s p a r t o f – fo r b r ib e r y
p u r p o s e s w a s t h e r e . P h o to s o f th e m o n e y w a s t a k e n . T h i s h a p p e n e d
in th e b a s e m e n t o f t h e b u il d i n g w h e r e y o u r o ff ic e s a r e a n d t h e r e w e r e
p o li c e o ff ic e r s w h o w e r e w a i ti n g fo r h i m t o c o m e in t o t h e b u i l d i n g .
T h e y s a w h i m c o m i n g i n . T h e y s a w b o t h y o u a n d h i m in t e r a c ti n g a n d a s
y o u w e r e le a v i n g a n d y o u h a d a g r e e d w i t h t h e m - t h a t i s t h e p o l ic e
o ffic e r s c o n c e r n e d – t h a t y o u w o u l d g iv e a c e r t a in i n d ic a ti o n t o s a y

20

t h e y m u s t in f a c t p o u n c e o n h i m a n d I s e e m t o t h i n k y o u c o u l d n o t
r e m e m b e r w h e t h e r y o u g a v e t h e i n d ic a ti o n o r n o t l a s t t i m e – l a s t t i m e
w h e n y o u w e r e g i v i n g e v id e n c e - b u t t h e y - w h i le y o u w e r e w a lk i n g
t o w a r d s t h e li f t t h e y – t h e y j u m p e d a n d t h e y a r r e s t e d h i m .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
e v i d e n c e w a s t h a t I d id g i v e t h e m th e i n d i c a ti o n .

Page 154 of 258

C h a ir y e s I d i d – m y

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Oh, you did yes.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t o u c h e d my h e a d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u to u c h e d y o u r h e a d j a .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And then I – I was

s c a r e d t h a t t h e y d i d n o t s e e m e . I a c tu a l ly s t a r t e d s l a p p i n g m y s e lf o n
the head.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : To m a k e s u r e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th a t th e y – t h a t t h e y

s e e t h e s i g n a l b u t o v e r a n d a b o v e t h a t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e r e i s a ls o

th e

v id e o r e c o r d i n g .
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e r e w a s th e v id e o r e c o r d i n g a s w e l l .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

O f h i m p u tt i n g th e

m o n e y i n m y c a r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s a n d – a n d d o y o u k n o w p e r s o n a l ly th a t a l l o f t h is
evidence
20

or

s t a te m e n ts

by

these

p o li c e

o ffi c e r s

and

your

own

s t a te m e n ts a l l o f t h a t w e r e i n th e d o c k e t ? Yo u k n o w t h a t th a t w a s th e
c a s e a t le a s t b e f o r e y o u w e r e s u s p e n d e d o r s o o n .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir. A s C h a ir is
a w a r e y o u h a v e d ir e c t w i tn e s s e v i d e n c e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h a t w a s c o n t a in e d i n

Page 155 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h e d o c k e t.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Yo u

have

c ir c u m s ta n ti a l e v i d e n c e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h a t w a s c o n t a in e d i n
t h e d o c k e t.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

T h e r e w a s te c h n i c a l

evidence.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Such

as

th e

There

was

th e

fi n g e r p r i n t s o f M a d h o e o n o n e o f t h e d o c u m e n ts .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
e v i d e n c e o f P a n d a y ’s b r o th e r ’s g ir l fr i e n d ’s f a t h e r.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h o t h e y h a d ta k e n t o
t h e b a n k t o w i th d r a w a s u b s t a n t ia l a m o u n t o f m o n e y.
20

CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h ic h w a s l i n k e d to a
p i e c e o f p a p e r – a b a n k p i e c e o f p a p e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
Nedbank.

Page 156 of 258

I

think

it

was

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th a t

was

found

a m o n g s t t h e m o n e y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th e r e w a s t h e a c t u a l

A c t 7 0 i n te r c e p t io n s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e r e w a s a ls o th e

tower movement.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t w e – a 2 0 5 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e r e w a s a ls o th e

SMS’ that he had sent me.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th a t w a s d o w n l o a d e d

fr o m m y – fr o m m y p h o n e a n d h i s p h o n e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d i n s p it e o f a l l th a t
20

evidenc e.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S h e s a y s th e r e i s n o

case.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s a n d t h e n p a r t o f w h a t y o u a r e s a y i n g i t i s d i ffi c u l t
t o u n d e r s t a n d h o w s h e c o u l d s a y t h a t in t h e l ig h t o f t h a t e v i d e n c e t h a t

Page 157 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
was there?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir t o m e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t is p a r t o f w h a t y o u a r e s a y i n g ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir to m e i t is

in c o m p r e h e n s i b l e th a t s h e c a n c o m e to t h a t c o n c l u s io n o f .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : O v e r th e y e a r s I h a v e
d e a lt w i t h m a n y c a s e s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And she herself – she
h e r s e l f s a y s t h a t t h e C r i m in a l P r o c e d u r e A c t .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : P r o v i d e s fo r a s i n g l e s in g le w i t n e s s e s e v id e n c e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

B u t h e r e i t is n o t a

s in g le w i t n e s s . S h e s a y s i t is h i s w o r d a g a i n s t m in e . Th e r e a r e p e o p l e
w h o a c t u a lly s a w th a t . Th e r e i s a 2 5 2 A .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Fr o m t h e D P P s O ffic e .
T h e r e is t h e c o o r d i n a t o r.

T h e r e is t h e i n v e s ti g a to r.

I t is ju s t

o v e r w h e l m i n g C h a ir. T h e r e is ju s t n o w a y s th a t a n y o n e c o u l d c o m e to a
r a ti o n a l c o n c l u s io n th a t th e r e is n o c a s e a g a i n s t P a n d a y a n d M a d h o e .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s a n d t o t h e e x t e n t t h a t s h e s a y s a m o n g o t h e r

people you – to the extent that she may be saying you may have had an

Page 158 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
agenda.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

To

have

the

Pr o v i n c i a l

Commissioner

f a l s e ly

i m p l ic a t e d a n d p r o s e c u te d ? H a d s h e s o u g h t y o u r o w n s t a te m e n t a b o u t
t h a t a l le g a ti o n ?

Had you been approached by her or anybody to say

t h e r e is t h i s a l le g a ti o n t h a t y o u a r e p a r t o f a n a g e n d a t o d o th is a n d d i d
y o u g e t a c h a n c e t o r e fu t e t h a t b e fo r e y o u s a w t h is m e m o ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir n o t o n c e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

From my arrest had I

e v e r b e e n g iv e n a n o p p o r t u n i ty.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I n t e r m s o f a w a r n in g

s t a te m e n t o r i n te r m s o f a r e s p o n s e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Not once.
CHAIRPERSON :

So

these

a s s e r t io n s

th a t

she

makes

in

her

m e m o r a n d u m t h a t - a t l e a s t w e c a n t a lk a b o u t y o u - t h a t y o u m a y h a v e
b e e n p u r s u i n g a c e r ta in a g e n d a a b o u t th e P r o v i n c ia l C o m m is s i o n e r a n d
20

t h a t y o u m a y h a v e b e e n p r e s s u r i s i n g P a n d a y a n d M a d h o e to fa ls e l y
i m p l ic a t e th e Pr o v in c i a l C o m m i s s i o n e r. W h e n s h e w r o te th is m e m o s h e
h a d n e v e r h e r s e l f o r t h r o u g h a n y b o d y p u t t h is to y o u t o h e a r y o u r
version?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
once.

Page 159 of 258

Never ever Chair not

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . T h a n k y o u .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

Following the

s u b m is s io n o f y o u r l e tt e r w a s t h e r e a n y – d i d t h e – d i d th e d e c is i o n
c h a n g e a t a l l?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Chair

I

t h in k

I

t e s ti fi e d a b o u t t h a t e a r li e r o n . T h a t is w h e n s u b s e q u e n t to th is l e t t e r o f
mine

where

Advocate

–

because

this

was

addressed

to

Advocate Nxasana.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s .
10

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
t h a t a f e w t h in g s h a p p e n e d .
prosecuted

for

th e

Advocate Gerrie Nel

O n e is t h a t A d v o c a te J i b a s to o d t o b e

cases in
had

And subsequent to

w h ic h

been

in

I was

th e

the

process

complainant and
of

r e v ie w in g

th e

w i t h d r a w a l o f t h e s e c h a r g e s a n d th e n o ll e p r o s e q u i a n d i t w a s a t t h a t
point where myself and I think McBride thought we were – Mr McBride –
w e th o u g h t w e w e r e o n t o p o f t h i n g s n o w w e w e r e n o w a t l a s t m a k i n g a
h e a d w a y.

Th e n t h e n e x t t h i n g t h e r e w a s t h e n e w s p a p e r a r t ic l e a b o u t

A d v o c a t e N x a s a n a n o t b e i n g fi t .
20

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d u n fo r t u n a t e l y h e h e w a s e lb o w e d o u t a n d r e p l a c e d A d v o c a t e A b r a h a m s .

So nothing

came

Madhoe

–

as

we

speak

to

d a te

none

of Panday

or

or

N a r a in p e r s a d o r G e n e r a l N g o b e n i h a s a p p e a r e d i n f r o n t o f a c o u r t o n
a n y o f th e s e c h a r g e s .

Page 160 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON :

H m . I a m s o r r y. L e t m e g o b a c k to t h i s is s u e w h a t

w e d e a l t w i th j u s t a f e w s e c o n d s a g o a b o u t A d v o c a te N o k o . T h e o th e r
p e r s o n s w h o s h e i s t a l k i n g a b o u t w h e n s h e s a y s c e r ta i n p e o p l e h a v e a n
a g e n d a . A p a r t fr o m y o u i t w o u l d b e w h o m o r d o y o u n o w k n o w ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o C h a ir I t h i n k s h e is
r e fe r r i n g t o G e n e r a l M o o d l e y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

General Moodley was

in c h a r g e o f C r i m e In t e l li g e n c e i n t h e P r o v i n c e .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And

the

guy

r e s p o n s i b l e fo r t h e A c t 7 0 i n te r c e p t io n - c o m m u n ic a ti o n i n t e r c e p ti o n s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W h ic h

is

C o l o n e l P a d a y a c h e e r e p o r t e d t o G e n e r a l M o o d le y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e r e w a s a t th a t

stage.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

P a n d a y a ll e g e d l y w a s

c a l l e d in b y – b y M o o d le y.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
t h e in t e r c e p ts .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

Page 161 of 258

And played some of

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

In order to force him

t o i m p lic a t e t h e P r o v in c i a l C o m m i s s i o n e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I am not aware of

that.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I do not think that

t o o k p la c e b e c a u s e w h e n i t w a s r e p o r te d i n t h e m e d i a a t th e ti m e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Panday quoted things

t h a t w a s d e fi n i t e l y n o t s a i d d u r in g th e Ac t 7 0 in t e r c e p ti o n s .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h ic h h e s a i d h e h a d
heard.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

So I have got my – I

h a v e g o t m y r e s e r v a ti o n s w h e t h e r M o o d l e y a c tu a lly d i d th a t o r n o t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

I

do

not

think

it

happened.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d I t h i n k s h e is

r e fe r r i n g t o .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : To G e n e r a l M o o d l e y.

Page 162 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : But am I right to say she was – you were one of the
p e o p l e s h e w a s in c l u d i n g w h e n s h e s a i d i n t h e m e m o c e r t a i n p e o p l e
have agendas to?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir y e s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Fa ls e l y i m p lic a t e t h e Pr o v in c i a l C o m m is s i o n e r ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, th a n k y o u . I t i s j u s t th a t i t i s – i t s e e m s to b e
concerning.
D P P in K Z N .
10

I m e a n s h e w a s a c ti n g i n a s e n i o r p o s it i o n o f D e p u ty –
W o u l d th a t n o t b e th e h ig h e s t p r o v in c i a l p o s i ti o n u n d e r

t h e N a t i o n a l P r o s e c u t i n g A u th o r i ty fo r t h e P r o v i n c e o r n o t r e a l ly ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir

are

you

r e fe r r i n g t o A d v o c a te N o k o ?
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Advocate Noko was

t h e – t h e S e n i o r Pr o s e c u t o r i n t h e Pr o v in c e ( i n te r v e n e s ) .
C H A I R P E R S O N : In t h e w h o l e P r o v i n c e y e s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d h e r e y o u w e r e a v e r y s e n io r m e m b e r o f t h e – o f
t h e p o li c e s e r v ic e – a m e m b e r o f t h e H a w k s .
20

If there was such an

a l le g a ti o n th a t y o u w e r e i n v o l v e d i n s o m e t h i n g s o w r o n g t o h a v e a
s e n i o r – th e P r o v i n c ia l C o m m i s s i o n e r o f P o lic e f a ls e ly i m p l ic a t e d o n e
w o u ld h a v e e x p e c t e d t h a t b e f o r e s h e m a d e t h e d e c is i o n s u c h a s
w i t h d r a w in g c h a r g e s s h e w o u ld h a v e a t l e a s t h e a r d w h a t y o u h a d t o s a y
a b o u t t h i s a ll e g a t io n th a t y o u w e r e p a r t o f a n a g e n d a .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 163 of 258

C h a ir my r e s p o n s e is

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t w o f o l d . O n e i s I a g r e e w i t h C h a ir. T h a t is – t h a t is a n o r m a l c o u r s e
t h a t w e a l w a y s f o l lo w w h e n – w h e n th e r e a r e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s f r o m
accused persons but what concerns me most about this memorandum of
h e r s . I t i s a l m o s t a n a t ta c k a g a i n s t m e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d th e c a s e .

It

m a k e s m e l o o k li k e t h e a c c u s e d p e r s o n .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

And

the

actual

a c c u s e d p e r s o n is li k e t h e c o m p l a i n a n ts .
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e t o n e o f h e r w h o l e
le t t e r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I would have at least

e x p e c te d - a s C h a ir s a y s – t o h a v e a t l e a s t b e e n g iv e n – g iv e n m e a n
o p p o r t u n i ty.
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : To s ta t e m y c a s e .
20

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

The

way

I

did

e v e n t u a l ly to A d v o c a te N x a s a n a .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm. Do you know whether she ever saw your – your
comment that you said to Mr Nxasana or you do not know?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I d o n o t k n o w C h a ir.

Page 164 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y. T h a n k y o u .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Th a n k y o u C h a ir.

If we can then

m o v e o n to t h e n e x t p o i n t t h a t C h a ir h a d r a is e d f o r a t t e n ti o n a n d th a t is
t h e l e t te r – t h e c o v e r in g l e t te r s p e c i f ic a lly b y A d v o c a t e N o k o .

W it h

y o u r l e a v e i f I m a y h a n d u p t w o d o c u m e n ts .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . W h a t a r e th e s e ?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Ye s .

Before

G e n e r a l B o o y s e n h a d p r o v i d e d t w o d o c u m e n ts .

you

C h a ir

Th e fir s t d o c u m e n t

w h ic h i s m a r k e d b l u e – w h ic h i s a b l u e d o c u m e n t .
10

CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Is

the

l e t te r

that

C h a ir

had

r e q u e s t e d . I t i s t h e le t t e r fr o m A d v o c a t e J ib a . A p o l o g ie s – i t t h e l e t t e r
fr o m A d v o c a t e N o k o t o A d v o c a te J i b a w h i c h is t h e c o v e r i n g le t t e r t h a t
C h a ir r e q u e s t e d s p e c if ic t o t h e a p p l ic a ti o n f o r a u t h o r is a t i o n a b o u t th e
r a c k e t e e r i n g c h a r g e s to b e i n s ti t u te d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. W e w il l n e e d t o m a r k t h is a s E X H I B I T Z ( J ) .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a i r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e la s t o n e w a s I .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a i r.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : T h is w il l b e E X H I B I T Z ( J ) . T h a t is n o w t h e le t t e r t h a t
is b l u e c o m i n g f r o m A d v o c a t e M N o k o - M a s h i lo a c t in g D ir e c t o r o f P u b li c
P r o s e c u t io n s K w a Zu lu - N a t a l a n d a d d r e s s e d to A d v o c a t e N J i b a Ac t in g
N a t io n a l D i r e c t o r o f P u b li c P r o s e c u ti o n d a t e d 1 5 A u g u s t 2 0 1 2 .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a i r.
CHAIRPERSON :

I t a k e i t t h a t A d v o c a te M N o k o - M a s h il o is t h e s a m e

Page 165 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
p e r s o n w h o s o fa r w e h a v e b e e n r e f e r r i n g t o a s A d v o c a t e N o k o ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

C h a ir t h is is b u t ju s t t h e c o v e r in g

le t t e r a n d i t d o e s n o t i n c l u d e t h e a n n e x u r e s th a t a r e r e f e r r e d t o i n t h is
le t t e r. I n a d d i ti o n t o t h is d o c u m e n t G e n e r a l B o o y s e n h a d a ls o p r o v i d e d
a n o t h e r l e t t e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : So if I m ay EXHIBIT Z(J) as has been
10

m a r k e d n o w r e l a te s t o t h e fi r s t a u t h o r is a ti o n o f r a c k e t e e r i n g c h a r g e s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h e n e x t d o c u m e n t w h ic h w a s a ls o

p r o v i d e d a n d y e t to b e m a r k e d r e l a t e s to t h e s e c o n d a u t h o r i s a t io n fo r
r a c k e t e e r i n g c h a r g e s . C h a ir w i ll r e c a ll th a t th e f ir s t a u th o r is a ti o n w a s
done by Advocate Nomgcobo Jiba.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d th e s e c o n d w a s b y – t h e s e c o n d
authorisation was by Advocate Shaun Abrahams.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : W i t h y o u r p e r m is s io n a r e w e t o m a r k
t h e n e x t d o c u m e n t?
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h is d o c u m e n t w i ll b e E X H I B I T Z ( K) a n d i t i s p u r p o r ts
t o b e a n a p p l ic a ti o n f o r a u t h o r i s a t io n i n te r ms o f S e c t i o n 2 ( 4 ) o f P O C A
121

of

1998.

It

is

fr o m

Advocate M Noko

D i r e c to r

of

P u b l ic

P r o s e c u t io n s K Z N a n d i t is a d d r e s s e d t o A d v o c a te S K A b r a h a ms N D P P,

Page 166 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
yes.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER: If I may?
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

G e n e r a l B o o y s e n i f w e c o u l d fi r s t

q u ic k ly r e f e r t o E X H I B I T Z( J ) - t h a t i s t h e b lu e d o c u m e n t . T h a t i s t h e
c o v e r in g l e tt e r th a t w a s s e n t b y A d v o c a t e N o k o t o A d v o c a t e J i b a in
r e l a ti o n t o th e fir s t a u th o r is a ti o n o f r a c k e t e e r i n g c h a r g e s .

Is t h a t

correct?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
10

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

O k a y.

I t s p e c i f ic a l ly th e n ta lk s t o

e n c l o s in g - a s r e fe r r e d t o i n p a r a g r a p h 1 – a n a p p l ic a ti o n a s – s o r r y
p a r a g r a p h 1 .1 i s t h e a p p li c a t io n fo r a u t h o r i ty.

1 . 2 is th e p r o p o s e d

in d i c t m e n t a n d 1 .3 a r e th e d r a f t a u t h o r i s a t i o n s . Th e r e c o m m e n d a ti o n is
f o r t h e a u t h o r is a ti o n t o b e g r a n te d . T h is p a r ti c u la r d o c u m e n t - w h i l e w e
d o n o t h a v e t h e a n n e x u r e s t o th is d o c u m e n t – w a s s i g n e d in f a c t b y
Advocate Noko?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

O k a y.

Who signed – do you know

w h o s i g n e d t h e i n d ic t m e n t t h a t o u g h t t o h a v e b e e n e n c l o s e d w i th t h i s
20

document?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir i f m y m e m o r y

s e r v e s m e c o r r e c tly I th i n k i t w a s A d v o c a t e M a e m a .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Thank

you

and

are

you

aware

w h e t h e r o r n o t i n a c c o r d a n c e w i t h p r o c e d u r e t h e r e w a s a p r o s e c u t io n
m e m o r a n d u m a n d /o r t h e P o w e r P o in t p r e s e n ta t io n ?

Page 167 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : I think.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n s u p p o r t o f t h i s a p p li c a t io n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I think there was a

m e m o r a n d u m C h a ir b u t n o t a P o w e r P o i n t p r e s e n t a ti o n .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Thank

you

and

is

th is

th e

a u t h o r i s a t io n th a t w a s t h e n s u b s e q u e n t ly c h a l le n g e d to w h ic h a f in d in g
w a s g r a n te d b y J u s ti c e G o r v e n ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s s o C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
10

A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u . I f I c a n th e n m o v e o n t o
EXHIBIT Z(K).
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Chair if you would

a l lo w m e I j u s t w a n t t o .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C o n te x tu a l is e th e d a t e
on this report.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th is i s n o t s o o n a f t e r
A d v o c a t e Si m p h iw e M l o ts h w a w a s m o v e d s id e w a y s .
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And

Noko

was

appointed.
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d t h i s c o in c i d e s

w i t h a n u m b e r o f e v e n ts t h a t o c c u r r e d a t t h e s a m e t i m e .

Page 168 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : D u r in g th is p e r i o d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I

was

s ti ll

busy

s u p e r v i s i n g t h e P a n d a y i n v e s t ig a ti o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And

the

Both

w h ic h

Amigos

in v e s t i g a t io n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Noko

s u b s e q u e n t ly w i t h d r e w.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And then recommend

my – recommended my prosecution.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a n k y o u C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, th a n k y o u .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : And then.
CHAIRPERSON :
20

T h e e v e n ts t h a t y o u r e fe r to t h a t w e r e h a p p e n i n g

r o u n d a b o u t t h i s t i m e . D o y o u w a n t t o d e a l w i t h th e m o r n o t – t h e y a r e
n o t n e c e s s a r i ly in y o u r e v i d e n c e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

N o C h a i r i t i s in m y

evidence.
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , o k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHANWESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 169 of 258

B u t I ju s t w a n t e d t o

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
b r i n g i t to C h a ir ’s a t te n ti o n t h a t t h e t i m e li n e h e r e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Is a t t h e e x a c t s a m e

ti m e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I t w a s a ft e r M l o t s h w a

r e fu s e d t o w it h d r a w a g a i n s t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

T h e p e o p le i n th e

le g a l c a s e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : He refused to sign our
in d i c t m e n t – m in e a n d C a t o M a n o r ’s i n d ic t m e n t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e g e ts r e p l a c e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Noko withdraws those
charges.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Against the Amigos

groupings.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
Madhoe.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

Page 170 of 258

A n d a ls o P a n d a y a n d

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And

in

turn

r e c o m m e n d s m y p r o s e c u t io n .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s . I d o n o t k n o w w h e th e r w h a t I a m g o i n g t o a s k

w i ll r e la t e t o t h e n e x t d o c u m e n t th a t w e h a v e j u s t r e f e r r e d t o - w h ic h
M s S e p t e m b e r w i ll d e a l w i th - n a m e ly th e q u e s ti o n o f w h e t h e r w h e n
Ms Noko – if you do know – when Ms Noko recommended your
p r o s e c u t i o n th e d o c u m e n ts t h a t M r M lo ts h w a – A d v o c a te M l o ts h w a h a d
s a i d h e w o u l d n o t s i g n it i f th e y w e r e n o t b e f o r e h i m w h e th e r th e y w e r e
b e f o r e Ms N o k o ? Yo u m i g h t o r m i g h t n o t k n o w ( in t e r v e n e s ) .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir a ll I c a n – th e

r e s p o n s e I c a n g iv e is w h a t s h e s a y s i n th e l e tt e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S h e r e fe r s t o

th e

a p p lic a ti o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I n t e r m s o f S e c t io n

2(4) of POCA.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

The

proposed

in d i c t m e n t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And then the draft

a u t h o r i s a t io n s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d th e n s h e s a y s :

Page 171 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
“ I h a v e p e r u s e d th e d o c u m e n ts … ”
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

“…and

r e c o m m e n d th e a p p l ic a ti o n .”
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , b u t w e d o n o t k n o w w h ic h d o c u m e n ts ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

She perused.

Th e y m i g h t o r m ig h t n o t i n c lu d e t h e

o n e s t h a t A d v o c a t e M lo ts h w a t h o u g h t w e r e i m p o r t a n t t o b e f u r n i s h e d w e
d o n o t k n o w. Is th a t r i g h t o r w e d o ?
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I d o n o t k n o w C h a ir

but.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I w il l v e n t u r e a g u e s s
t h a t th e y w e r e n o t t h e r e .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

O k a y.

I t h i n k i t w i ll b e i m p o r ta n t t o e s t a b li s h

w e ll o n e , w h a t t h e d o c u m e n ts w e r e th a t A d v o c a t e M l o t s h w a w e r e
in s is t in g s h o u ld b e t h e r e b e c a u s e if h e s i g n e d o r r e c o m m e n d e d
p r o s e c u t i o n w i t h o u t t h e m i t w o u ld b e i m p r o p e r a n d t h e n o f c o u r s e i t
w o u ld b e n e c e s s a r y t o a p p ly o n e ’s m in d t o t h e q u e s t io n w h e t h e r h e w a s
20

c o r r e c t o n i n s is ti n g o n t h o s e d o c u m e n ts a n d t h r e e w h e t h e r i n m a k i n g
t h e r e c o m m e n d a ti o n M s N o k o h a d th o s e d o c u m e n ts .

O b v i o u s ly if

A d v o c a t e Ml o ts h w a w a s w r o n g to i n s is t o n t h o s e d o c u m e n ts th e n e v e n
if A d v o c a t e N o k o r e c o m m e n d e d w i th o u t t h o s e d o c u m e n ts th a t m ig h t n o t
b e a n y t h in g n e g a ti v e to w a r d s h e r, b u t i f t h o s e d o c u m e n ts w e r e
i m p o r t a n t t o b e b e f o r e t h e p e r s o n t a k i n g th e d e c is io n to r e c o m m e n d

Page 172 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
a n d s h e r e c o m m e n d e d w i t h o u t t h o s e d o c u m e n ts t h e n o n e w o u l d n e e d t o
lo o k a t t h a t . T h a n k y o u .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : A s i t p l e a s e s C h a ir. B e f o r e w e m o v e
o n t o th e n e x t d o c u m e n t th is b l u e d o c u m e n t is th e fir s t a u t h o r i s a t io n i n
2012?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

The second document which is

E x h i b i t Z K is d a t e d 1 8 A u g u s t 2 0 1 5 w h ic h r e l a te s t o t h e s e c o n d
a u t h o r i s a t io n .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a t is s o C h a ir.

N o w i t is s t a te d i n y o u r a ff id a v i t a t

p a g e 2 3 , p a r a g r a p h 7 5 . . .( i n te r v e n t io n )
C H A I R P E R S O N : I’ m s o r r y, w h e r e a r e y o u ?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

A p o lo g i e s , E x h i b it Z A , i t ’s i n h is

m a in a ffi d a v i t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e o n e w i t h t h e s ta t e m e n t?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Ye s C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , w h a t p a g e ?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
20

CHAIRPERSON :

Page 23 paragraph 75.

O k a y, y e s .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h e – w h a t is r e c o r d e d in p a r a g r a p h

7 5 t a lk s t o t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t y o u ’v e a l r e a d y p r e s e n te d a l l u d e d to b y th e
C h a ir in th a t a d v o c a te M lo t s h w a r e f u s e d t o s i g n th e i n d ic t m e n t u n t il h e
received certain documentation.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 173 of 258

T h a t is s o C h a ir.

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Wa s

the

refusal

to

s ig n

th e

in d i c t m e n t t h e n r e l a te d t o t h e s e c o n d a u t h o r i s a t io n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

No it was related to

t h e fi r s t a u th o r is a ti o n C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a n k y o u , i f w e t h e n lo o k a t E x h i b i t

ZK there does not appear to be many paragraph references but if you
lo o k a t p a g e t w o . . .( i n t e r v e n t i o n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

P a g e t w o o f?

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
10

CHAIRPERSON :

Page two of Exhibit ZK.

O h o k a y o f t h e s ta t e m e n t ?

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

N o C h a ir t h e n e w d o c u m e n t t h a t w e

ju s t e n t e r e d i n , t h e r e ’s t h e b lu e o n e a n d th e n t h e r e ’s t h e o t h e r.
CHAIRPERSON :

Is that J?

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
CHAIRPERSON:

ZK.

K o k a y, a lr i g h t w h a t p a g e o n th a t o n e o r p a r a g r a p h ?

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

S o p a r a g r a p h o n e r e a d s th a t t h is

d o c u m e n t is e s s e n t ia ll y a n a p p l ic a ti o n f o r fr e s h a u th o r is a ti o n o f
racketeering charges against you and several others. On page two i t
t a lk s t o c e r t a i n d o c u m e n ts th a t o u g h t t o h a v e b e e n e n c l o s e d w h i c h w e
20

d o n o t h a v e i n s u p p o r t o f t h e a p p lic a t io n a n d 1 . 1 lis ts i t a s t h e
a p p lic a ti o n f o r a u t h o r i ty, 1 .2 t h e fr e s h p r o s e c u ti o n m e m o r a n d u m , 1 . 3
t h e p r o p o s e d in d i c t m e n t a n d 1 . 4 t h e d r a f t a u th o r is a t i o n s , is t h a t
correct?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a t ’s c o r r e c t C h a ir.

N o w in t h is r e g a r d e a r li e r y o u

Page 174 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
r e fe r r e d t o a p r o s e c u t i o n m e m o r a n d u m a n d a P o w e r P o in t p r e s e n t a ti o n .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a t ’s c o r r e c t C h a ir.

A r e t h o s e t h e t w o d o c u m e n ts t h a t

m a y h a v e b e e n r e f e r r e d t o i n t h is p a r t ic u l a r l e t t e r ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I s u s p e c t s o C h a ir.

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Th a n k y o u , j u s t to h i g h li g h t , o n p a g e

three

ZK

of

th e

same

Exhibit

paragraph

fo u r

d e ta il s

the

d o c u m e n ts / e v id e n c e u p o n w h i c h – r a t h e r w h ic h w e r e c o n s i d e r e d f o r
p u r p o s e s o f th is a p p lic a ti o n a n d i n p a r t i c u l a r i t l is ts a t l e a s t s e v e n
10

points.

I f I c o u l d q u ic k ly g o t h r o u g h t h e m , w i th y o u r l e a v e C h a ir,

paragraph 4a informs – or rather paragraph 4 reads:
“ I h a v e r e c e iv e d f u l l b r i e fi n g s fr o m t h e p r o s e c u ti o n t e a m a n d
r e s o l v e d th a t th e c o n c e s s i o n s m a d e b y c o u n s e l o n b e h a l f o f t h e A N D P P
d u r i n g t h e h e a r i n g o f B o o y s e n ’s a p p l ic a t i o n w e r e i n c o r r e c t” .
A n d i t s e e k s to th e n a d d r e s s c e r t a i n p o i n ts w h i c h i s l is t e d fr o m
a to g . I f w e c o u l d th e n tu r n t o p a g e fi v e p a r a g r a p h s i x ta lk s t o c o p i e s
o f a ffi d a v i ts o r d o c u m e n t s w h ic h a r e r e l e v a n t to B o o y s e n i n s o f a r a s th e
racketeering charges and predicate charges are concerned and in doing
s o l is ts v a r io u s d o c u m e n ts , i n c l u d i n g t h e H i g h C o u r t a p p l ic a t i o n w h e r e
20

B o o y s e n is a r e s p o n d e n t , d o c u m e n ts r e la ti n g t o t h e m o n e t a r y a w a r d s ,
s t a te m e n ts o f C o l o n e l A iy e r ? d a te d 3 A u g u s t 2 0 1 2 , 3 1 A u g u s t 2 0 1 2 a n d
1 3 M a r c h 2 0 1 3 . S t a te m e n t o f B e n k e k o s i M n t a n y a n e , N d u n d l u d a t e d 3 1
J u l y 2 0 1 2 . S t a t e m e n t o f A n d r e w C a a r s e n C o c k r in d a t e d 1 6 M a y 2 0 1 2 ,
s t a te m e n ts

of

C o m m is s i o n e r

Brown

d a te d

8

and

9

May

2013,

s t a te m e n ts o f N k o s i N a t i ( in d is ti n c t) d a te d 3 A u g u s t 2 0 1 2 a n d 1 5 M a r c h

Page 175 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
2 0 1 3 , s ta t e m e n t o f Si m p h iw e S i p r i n M a to n s i d a t e d 1 5 M a r c h 2 0 1 3 a n d
s t a te m e n t o f B o n g a n i M a n d la M k h iz e d a te d 1 A u g u s t 2 0 1 2 a n d i ts
e s s e n ti a l ly o n t h e b a s is o f t h i s s u b m is s i o n t h a t a t p a r a g r a p h e i g h t o n
p a g e s ix th e r e q u e s t is m a d e – o r r a th e r, a p o lo g i e s , p a r a g r a p h s e v e n
o n p a g e f iv e w h e r e t h e s u b m is s i o n is m a d e th a t t h e r e ’s s u ffic i e n t
e v i d e n c e li n k i n g t h e m t o r a c k e t e e r i n g a n d p r e d ic a te o ffe n c e s a s w i ll b e
s h o w n i n t h e f r e s h p r o s e c u ti o n m e m o e n c l o s e d h e r e w i t h . A t p a r a g r a p h
e i g h t , k i n d ly i n d ic a te t h a t y o u a r e a v a i l a b le f o r a f u ll b r i e f i n g w i th t h e
e n t ir e p r o s e c u ti o n
10

te a m .

Th is l e t te r is d a t e d

19 August 2015

n o t w i t h s t a n d in g th e d a te o f 1 8 A u g u s t 2 0 1 5 o n t h e fr o n t p a g e . T h is i s
t h e n t h e r e q u e s t fo r a u t h o r is a ti o n u n d e r w h ic h y o u a r e c u r r e n t ly
charged.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
CHAIRPERSON :

T h a t is c o r r e c t C h a ir.

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

Ja.

A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I f y o u c o u l d t h e n g o b a c k t o Ex h i b it
Z G w h i c h is t h e M o k g o r o r e p o r t o n p a g e 1 2 1 , w e ’v e d e a l t w i t h t h e
p r o s e c u t i o n m e m o a n d w it h o u t d e tr a c ti n g fr o m t h e d e t a i l th a t is s t a te d
in h e r e i t c o n ti n u e s t o p a g e 1 2 7 w h ic h v e r y b r i e fly, a t s u b - p a r a g r a p h
20

5 .2 . 1 .1 3 d e a ls w i t h th e m a n n e r i n w h ic h t h e B o o y s e n m a t t e r w a s d e a l t
w i t h . Th e n e x t p e r ti n e n t p o i n t is a t th e b o t to m o f p a g e 1 2 7 w h ic h ta lk s
a b o u t – o r r a t h e r i t is ti t le d a t p a r a g r a p h 5 .2 . 1 .1 4 w h ic h is M o s i n g ’s ?
version.

W h o e x a c tl y w a s a d v o c a te M o s i n g in th e c o n t e x t o f t h e

in v e s t i g a t io n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 176 of 258

C h a ir i t h a d b e c o m e

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
c le a r a f t e r a d v o c a te M a m a b o l o a n d a d v o c a te Kr u g e r w h o w a s i n c h a r g e
o f th e d e s k t o g o t h r o u g h t h e d o c u m e n ts b e fo r e i t’s e v e n t u a l ly g i v e n t o
t h e N D P P.

When they removed advocate Anthony Mosing then took

o v e r th e i r p o s it i o n .

I la t e r o n r e f e r – w h e n I t a l k a b o u t a d v o c a t e

M o s i n g u n d e r t h e h e a d i n g o f p r o s e c u t o r s C h a ir b u t a t th is p o in t w h a t I
w o u ld l ik e to m e n t i o n is t h a t o n t h e 8 t h o f M a r c h 2 0 1 2 t h a t w a s b a r e ly
t w o a n d a h a l f m o n t h s i n t o t h e in v e s t i g a ti o n a ft e r th e S u n d a y Ti m e s
r e p o r t , I ’ m i n p o s s e s s i o n o f a c o p y o f h a n d w r i t t e n n o t e s w h i c h a d v o c a te
M o s i n g k e p t m in u t e s o f t h e m e e t in g w h ic h i t ’s – w h e r e i t i n d i c a t e s t h a t
10

t h e r e w a s a m e e ti n g b e t w e e n h i m s e l f , m e m b e r s fr o m I P I D , I C D th e n ,
t h e M i n is t e r o f P o lic e w h o w a s M i n is t e r N a t h i M t h e t h w a a t t h e t i m e a n d
a ls o t h e th e n a c ti n g N a t io n a l C o m m i s s i o n e r w h ic h w o u l d h a v e b e e n
General

Mkhwanazi,

he

wrote

( i n d is t in c t )

though

it ’s

a c t u a ll y

M k h w a n a z i . N o w f r o m t h o s e n o t e s C h a i r s . . .( i n t e r v e n t io n ) .
C H A I R P E R S O N : I s a w t h o s e n o t e s in y o u r b u n d l e e a r li e r o n d o y o u
know where they are?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

I f I m a y C h a ir, y e s t e r d a y d u r i n g

c o n s u l t a ti o n w i t h G e n e r a l B o o y s e n t h e r e ’s – i t’s a d o c u m e n t th a t
G e n e r a l B o o y s e n h a d p r e p a r e d w h ic h is a ty p e d v e r s io n o f t h e c o p y o f
20

t h e n o t e w h ic h I w i ll d i r e c t y o u to n o w. . .( i n t e r v e n t io n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

J a l e t ’s f in d th e m f ir s t a n d t h e n y o u c a n h a n d u p t h e

ty p e d v e r s i o n , le t ’s fi n d t h e m w h e r e t h e y a r e fir s t .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : M y h u m b l e a p o l o g i e s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

Wa s it n o t A n n e x u r e 2 3 o r s o m e th i n g ?

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

It ’s A n n e x u r e J B 1 2 w h ic h i s in f il e

Page 177 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
ZA page 145.
CHAIRPERSON: Have you found Annexure 12?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Is

that

th e

typed

version?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

N o t h a t ’s t h e c o p y t h a t i s i n t h e fil e .

C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e h a n d w r i t t e n o n e fir s t th e n w e c a n lo o k a t t h e
ty p e d v e r s i o n .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
10

W h a t p a g e is i t ?

I t’s E x h ib it Z A p a g e 1 4 5 .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t ’s i n d e e d t h e

c o p y c h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

L e t m e j u s t g e t t h e r e I r e m e m b e r th a t I g o t t h e

d i ff ic u l t to r e a d – y e s th a n k y o u , t h e n y o u s a y t h e r e is a ty p e d v e r s i o n .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

G e n e r a l B o o y s e n h a d ty p e d u p h is

u n d e r s t a n d in g o f t h e n o te a n d w i t h y o u r l e a v e I b e g t o h a n d it u p .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s o k a y, d id y o u f i n d it e a s y t o r e a d t h i s , I ’ m

t h i n k i n g h o w r e li a b l e y o u r ty p e d v e r s i o n is , h a v e y o u g o t a ty p e d
v e r s i o n f r o m t h e a u t h o r th a t w o u l d o b v i o u s l y b e m u c h m o r e a c c u r a t e
b u t y o u m ig h t – i f y o u a r e a b l e to r e a d q u i t e w e l l th e n o t e s , th a t ’s fi n e .
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir th is c o p y is n o t

v e r y – i t ’s n o t a v e r y g o o d c o p y t h e o n e t h a t I – t h e a c t u a l o n e is
c le a r e r t h a n th is .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I n t h e ty p e d v e r s io n

t h e r e ’s a l o t o f p l a c e s w h e r e I – w h e r e i t ’s i m p o s s i b le t o d e c ip h e r.

Page 178 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON :

Okay so we can take this as your – as a typed

version based on your understanding of the handwritten notes and if
a n d w h e n M r M o s i n g d o e s g i v e e v id e n c e h e c a n t e ll u s w h a t h is n o t e s
a c t u a ll y s a y.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : O k a y C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

Okay thank you. I think that – so that one can’t put

t h is w h e n m a y b e o n e c o u l d p u t t h i s – o n e c a n ’ t p u t t h i s i n h e r e b e c a u s e
it ’s n o t p a r t o f th is a ffi d a v i t .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
10

CHAIRPERSON :

C o r r e c t C h a ir.

S o I t h in k w e m u s t m a k e i t a n E x h i b i t o n i ts o w n t h e

la s t o n e w a s K s o th is w il l b e L , t h a t w i ll b e E x h i b i t Z L a n d i t ’s th e
ty p e d v e r s i o n o f t h e h a n d w r i t te n n o t e s a t p a g e 1 4 5 o f Ex h i b i t Z A a s
u n d e r s t o o d b y M a jo r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

Thank you yes .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Please proceed General Booysen.

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir I ’ m r e a d in g

fr o m t h e ty p e d v e r s i o n .
CHAIRPERSON :
20

Ye s .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e m e e ti n g w a s – i t

s a y s 8 / 3 / 1 2 m e e t in g w i t h th e I C D t h e n th e r e a r e th r e e n a m e d ,
Gamanyana, Glen Angus and Mr Khuba, then it reads,
“ fi r s t m e e ti n g , m e e ti n g w i t h Mi n is te r o f P o l ic e S A P S – a c ti n g
N a t io n a l C o m m i s s i o n e r N k a n k l a Vil ik a z i , I t h i n k h e r e c o r d e d t h a t w r o n g
b e c a u s e it ’s N k o n a z i a n d t h e n i t r e a d s o n , m e r g e tw o te a m s . M a n d a t e

Page 179 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
– m a t t e r p e n d i n g s i n c e D e c e m b e r 2 0 11 – h i t s q u a d a ll e g a t i o n s – o n th e
ty p e d v e r s i o n , C h a ir I’ v e – t h o s e b o ld l e t t e r s a r e m y o w n b o l d le t t e r s
it ’s w h a t I r e a d fr o m t h e m in u t e s b u t I m a d e t h e m b o l d m y s e l f , t h e y ’r e
n o t b o l d i n t h e . . .( i n t e r v e n ti o n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

I t ’s n o t b o l d i n t h e h a n d w r i t t e n n o te s .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th a t ’s r i g h t s o i t

says,
“ w a n ts a r r e s t b y th is w e e k w o r k e d t h r o u g h o u t w e e k e n d a n d
t h e n t h e o t h e r o n e t h e u n d e r l in in g is a l s o b y m y s e l f C h a i r a n d t h e
10

b o l d n e s s a n d t h a t – i n th is p a r t ic u l a r l i n e C h a ir c o in c i d e s w i th w h a t
e m a n a t e d d u r i n g t h e – J u d g e M a k o r o ’s C o m m is s i o n o f E n q u ir y o r t h e
E n q u ir y n o t t h e C o m m i s s io n o f E n q u ir y.

C h a ll e n g e d t o r o p e i n N PA

p r o s e c u t o r s – n o t s u b m i t to K Z N D P P b u t t o N D P P a n d t h e n i t r e a d s o n
G e n e r a l M a b u l a m e t w i th M a l o t s h w a p r o m i s e – t h e n I c a n n o t fi g u r e o u t
w h a t ’s w r i tt e n t h e r e a n d t h e n o n ly – j o i n o n ly n e x t w e e k .

It m e n t i o n s

5 1 c a s e s , t h o s e J 5 6 ( 1 9 ) i n q u e s t d o c k e ts , 1 2 a n d t h e n I c o u ld n ’t m a k e
o u t w h a t h e w r o t e . N o w 6 c a s e d th a t a r e n e e d i n g o t h e r i n v e s ti g a ti o n
o u t s t a n d i n g , I w r o t e v e r b a t i m C h a ir – b r o u g h t 6 c a s e s w h ic h th e y w a n t
t o b r i n g h e r e a n d f i e l d s I c a n n o t m a k e o u t w h a t h e w r o t e , w a n ts
20

d e c is i o n b y t o m o r r o w.

S u s p e c t s 1 2 in u n it – B o o y s e n P C O C , th a t P C

w o u ld b e a t t h e P r o v i n c ia l C o m m i s s i o n e r s o ffic e a t o r g a n is e d c r i m e u n it
o ffic e .

E v i d e n c e o f p h o to s w h ic h G e n e r a l M a b u l a – w it h G e n e r a l

M a b u l a ’s t e a m n e e d t o g e t . Wa y f o r w a r d w h e t h e r a n d p r o s e c u t o r – w il l
jo in n e x t w e e k . I C D o ff ic e s D u r b a n b r i e f e d N D P P ” .
T h e th i n g s t h a t a r e h ig h li g h t e d C h a ir is – it s a y s fir s t m e e ti n g

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
w i t h th e M i n i s t e r o f P o lic e S A P S a n d t h e a c ti n g N a t io n a l C o m m is s i o n e r
o f P o l ic e a n d i t s a y s , m e r g e d t w o t e a m s , m a n d a t e m a t te r p e n d i n g s i n c e
D e c e m b e r 2 0 11 , h i t s q u a d a l l e g a ti o n s . Wa n ts a r r e s t b y t h is w e e k , w o r k
t h r o u g h o u t w e e k e n d . N o w C h a i r m y i n t e r p r e t a ti o n o f t h a t i s i f y o u a r e
t h e r e w i t h t h e M in is t e r, m y i n t e r p r e t a ti o n o f t h i s is t h a t w a s o n e o f h is
d e m a n d s a n d th e n v e r y i m p o r ta n t ly C h a ir, c h a l le n g e t o r o p e i n t h e N PA
p r o s e c u t o r s , n o t s u b m i t to K Z N D P P b u t to s u b m it t o N D P P.
CHAIRPERSON :

A n d t h e K Z N D P P a t t h a t ti m e , w o u l d i t h a v e b e e n

advocate Malogwa?
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
CHAIRPERSON :

T h a t ’s c o r r e c t C h a ir.

Ye s , o k a y th a n k y o u .

A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a n k y o u a n d w h a t e x a c tl y w a s y o u r
c o n c e r n o r p r o b l e m w i th th e r e c o r d a l a s y o u u n d e r s to o d i t t o b e i n
r e l a ti o n to t h e M i n i s t e r h o l d in g t h is m e e ti n g a n d c a l li n g fo r a r r e s ts
w i t h i n th a t w e e k ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir I m ig h t a d d th a t

s u b s e q u e n t t o t h e S u n d a y Ti m e s a p o l o g i s in g to m y s e l f I h a d a r a d i o
in t e r v ie w w i t h C a r i m a B r o w n fr o m 7 0 2 c h a n n e l w h e r e s o m e o f th e s e
is s u e s w e r e d is c u s s e d a n d w h e n I l e f t t h e s t u d i o , w h e n I a r r iv e d h o m e I
20

r e c e i v e d a t e x t m e s s a g e fr o m C a r i m a B r o w n f r o m 7 0 2 t h a t M i n is te r
M t h e th w a h a d is s u e d a m e d i a r e l e a s e a g a i n s a y i n g w h a t I h a d s a i d
d u r i n g t h e i n te r v i e w.

T h e f o l lo w i n g m o r n in g s h e p h o n e d m e a n d s h e

s a i d to m e th a t s h e ’s i n v it i n g th e M in is t e r t o t h e s t u d i o t o d is c u s s t h e s e
is s u e s , w o u ld I b e p r e p a r e d t o c o m e b a c k to th e s tu d io a n d I s a i d t o
h e r, y o u c a n t e ll t h e M in is t e r I ’l l m e e t h i m in th e s tu d i o t o n i g h t a n d s h e

Page 181 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
s a i d w o u l d y o u c o m e a n d I s a i d I w o u ld . I a r r iv e d t h e r e a t t h e s tu d io
t h a t s a m e e v e n i n g h e d i d n ’ t a r r i v e s o t h e y d i a l l e d h i m i n a n d d u r i n g t h is
c o n v e r s a ti o n C a r i m a B r o w n i n d ic a te d t o t h e M i n is t e r t h a t I ’ m i n
p o s s e s s i o n o f t h e s e mi n u te s .

He was, in the beginning a bit cagey

a b o u t t h e m e e ti n g , th a t h e h a d n ’ t s e e n t h e m i n u t e s b u t t h e n s h e a s k e d
h i m a v e r y p e r ti n e n t q u e s ti o n w h e t h e r h e h a d a m e e t in g w i th th e
p r o s e c u t o r s w h ic h h e c o n fir m e d o n n a t i o n a l r a d io o r 7 0 2 . S h e p o in t e d
o u t to h i m th a t h e h a d n o b u s i n e s s m e e t in g w it h p r o s e c u t o r s w h ic h I
agree with.
10

H e tr i e d to j u s ti fy h is in v o l v e m e n t b y s a y i n g t h a t th e r e

w e r e a l l e g a ti o n s o f h u m a n r ig h ts a b u s e s a n d h e r e f e r r e d to o n e
p a r t ic u l a r c a s e w h e r e a p e r s o n b y th e n a m e o f M k h iz e g o t s h o t a n d
k il le d . I e x p e c t e d h i m t o u s e t h a t e x a m p l e s o I t o o k d o c u m e n ts w i th m e
t o t h e s t u d i o w h ic h I g a v e to C a r i m a B r o w n b e c a u s e th e Mk h iz e f a m ily
h a d s u e d t h e M i n i s te r o f P o l ic e , M i n i s te r N a t h i M a t h e t w a a t t h e ti m e ,
f o r th e u n l a w f u l k i ll in g o f M r M k h iz e b u t t h e M i n i s te r a t t h e t i m e , M r
N a t h i M a t h e t w a d e p o s e d to a n a ffi d a v i t in a c iv i l m a t te r s a y in g t h a t t h e
s h o o t in g

by

Kato

Manor

was

ju s t i fi a b le

and

i t w a s l a w fu l a n d

r e a s o n a b l e a n d h e w a s a t p a in s t o e x p l a i n , o n th e o n e h a n d h e
s a y s . . .( in t e r v e n ti o n ) .
20

CHAIRPERSON :

T h e s h o o ti n g w a s j u s t i fi a b l e a n d th e o t h e r h a n d h e

s a y s h e w a s c o n c e r n e d a b o u t .. .( i n t e r v e n ti o n ) .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t ’s w h y I g o t

in v o lv e d b u t w e a ls o p o in t e d o u t t o h i m th e n t h a t h e ’s ta k i n g u p a
d i ff e r e n t p o s i ti o n t h a t h e h a d t a k e n u p i n t h e M a r ik a n a m a t t e r w h e r e h e
t e s ti fi e d s a y i n g t h a t h is u n d e r s ta n d i n g o f t h e r o l e o f t h e M i n i s t e r i s t o

Page 182 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
d e a l w i th m a t t e r s o f p o li c y a n d w e p o in t e d o u t t o h i m – a n d t h a t ’s m y
u n d e r s t a n d in g a s w e l l C h a i r b u t w e p o i n t e d o u t t o h i m t h a t t h e r e w a s a
d is c r e p a n c y i n h o w h e a p p r o a c h e d th e s e t w o m a t t e r s .

I n t h e K a to

M a n o r c a s e h e s o u g h t t o g e t i n v o l v e d in o p e r a t io n a l m a t t e r s .

He

o b v i o u s l y d e n i e d t h a t h e h a d g o t t e n in v o lv e d in t h e o p e r a ti o n a l m a t te r s
b u t my i n t e r p r e t a ti o n o f t h e m in u t e s is t h a t h e h a d m e t w it h p r o s e c u t o r s
a n d d e m a n d e d t h a t w e b e a r r e s t e d a n d t h a t w a s a s e a r ly a s 8 t h o f
M a r c h 2 0 1 2 b a r e ly b e f o r e a n y s t a te m e n ts h a d b e e n t a k e n C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :
10

O n e w o u l d h a v e e x p e c t e d t h a t i f th e M i n is t e r o f

P o lic e h a d a n y c o n c e r n t h a t t h e N a ti o n a l P r o s e c u t in g A u t h o r i t y w a s n o t
a c ti n g d i li g e n t ly i n r e g a r d t o t h e p r o s e c u ti o n o f a n y p a r tic u la r p e o p l e
t h a t m a y b e t h e p o lic e h a d p u t to g e th e r e n o u g h e v i d e n c e f o r, o n e w o u ld
h a v e e x p e c t e d th a t h e w o u l d r a is e th a t w i t h th e M i n is te r o f J u s ti c e a n d
t h a t i t w o u l d b e th e M i n is te r o f J u s tic e i f h e t h o u g h t t h a t i t w a s p r o p e r
t o r a is e a n y c o n c e r n t h a t w o u l d r a is e th e c o n c e r n w i t h th e N PA .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I n d e e d C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : S o h e r e – a n d th e n o t e s , i f t h e y c o r r e c t ly r e fl e c t t h e
p e o p l e w h o w e r e t h e r e o r i f t h e y c o r r e c tl y r e fl e c t – j a i f t h e y c o r r e c t ly
r e fl e c t t h e p e o p l e w h o a r e t h e r e , t h e r e ’s n o i n d i c a t io n t h a t t h e M i n i s t e r
20

o f J u s tic e w a s a t th a t m e e t i n g .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

N o t a t a ll C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s d o y o u r e c a ll w h o t h e M in is t e r o f J u s t ic e w a s a t
t h a t ti m e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
M a s u t h a C h a ir a t t h e t i m e .

Page 183 of 258

I t h i n k i t w a s M in is t e r

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON :

Wa s it 2 0 1 2 – 2 0 1 5 , w h a t . .. ( i n te r v e n ti o n ) .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

2012, no it wasn’t

M i n is t e r M a s u t h a , w a s n ’ t i t . . .( i n te r v e n t io n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

M a y b e M i n i s te r G a d e b e .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

G a d e b e t h a t ’s r ig h t

C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Okay thank you.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Th a n k y o u C h a ir, i f I c a n t h e n ta k e

y o u t o y o u r s t a t e m e n t w h ic h i s in B u n d l e Z A w e a r e n o w, e ffe c t iv e l y
10

d e a li n g w i th y o u r p a r a g r a p h r e f e r e n c e s fr o m 7 7 a n d 7 8 o n p a g e 2 4 – 2 4
of your statement. General Booysen you have made various references
t o o t h e r p e r c e iv e d in t e r f e r e n c e s b y M i n is te r M t h e th w a , i f I c a n t a k e y o u
t o p a g e 1 4 6 w h ic h is A n n e x u r e J W B 1 3 .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ex c u s e m e , w h a t p a g e i s it ?

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
CHAIRPERSON :

1 4 7 s o r r y.

Ye s .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

G e n e r a l B o o y s e n c a n y o u i d e n t if y

t h is d o c u m e n t p l e a s e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

C h a ir i t ’s a le t t e r

w r i t t e n b y a d v o c a t e , I t h i n k i t w a s , M a h e m a a t t h e ti m e , i t ’s a d d r e s s e d
t o I P I D , M r A n g u s a n d t o t h e p e r s o n w h o w a s le a d i n g th e K a t o M a n o r
in v e s t i g a t io n G e n e r a l M a b u l a a n d i t ’s fr o m t h e o ffic e o f t h e D ir e c t o r o f
P u b l ic Pr o s e c u t io n s , S o u th G a u t e n g .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Thank

o b s e r v a t i o n s i n r e l a t i o n t o t h i s l e tt e r ?

Page 184 of 258

you

and

what is

your

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir i t ’s e v i d e n t

fr o m t h i s l e tt e r, i t ’s a r e q u e s t t o h a v e a f u r t h e r i n t e r v i e w w i th o n e – w e ll
t h e s o - c a l l e d k e y w i t n e s s , C o l o n e l R a j e n A iy e r a n d in p a r a g r a p h tw o i t
s t a te s ,
“ t h e p l a n i s t h a t w e a ls o c o n s u l t S ik o m b o s o N d l o v o t h e
g e n tl e m a n fr o m t h e C iv i li a n S e c r e t a r i a t in t h e M i n is t e r ’s o ff ic e w h o w a s
in tr o d u c e d t o u s b y C o l o n e l A i y e r o n F r id a y t h e 5 t h o f O c t o b e r.

It

a p p e a r e d fr o m w h a t S i k o m b o s o N d l o v o w a s t e l li n g u s t h a t h e h a s a lo t
o f b a c k g r o u n d in f o r m a t io n o r p o s s i b l e c l u e s t o u n l o c k s o m e c r u c i a l
10

in f o r m a ti o n t h a t w e w il l r e q u ir e g o i n g a h e a d w i th t h e c a s e ” .
C h a ir I j u s t fi n d i t a b i t c u r i o s t h a t a p e r s o n fr o m t h e M i n is t e r ’s
o ffic e g e ts i n v o l v e d i n a n i n v e s ti g a ti o n a t t h is l e v e l u n le s s , o f c o u r s e
h e w a s a c o m p e t e n t w i t n e s s i n th is m a t t e r w h ic h h e ’s n o t.

So my

c o n c l u s i o n h e r e C h a ir is – a n d t h a t ’s w h y I ’ v e a d d e d t h i s t o m y
s t a te m e n t , I’v e a lr e a d y i m p u te d th a t t h e M in is t e r h i m s e l f h a d b e e n
in v o lv e d w i t h p r o s e c u t o r s w h ic h w a s w r o n g b u t h e r e s o m e o n e fr o m h is
o ffic e – fr o m t h e C i v i li a n S e c r e t a r i a t a ls o n o w s o m e h o w g e ts i n v o lv e d
w i t h t h e w i tn e s s , M r Ai y e r w h i c h w e n o w k n o w w a s a d i s m a l w i t n e s s .
CHAIRPERSON :
20

S o y o u ’r e l in k i n g it w i t h w h a t y o u s a id e a r l ie r o n ,

n a m e ly w h a t w a s th e M i n is te r o f P o l ic e d o i n g h a v in g a m e e t in g w i t h
prosecutors, one.

Tw o , w h a t i s s o m e b o d y fr o m t h e M i n i s te r ’s o ffi c e

h a v i n g to – w h a t d o e s h e h a v e to d o w i t h t h e s e m a t t e r, th a t ’s w h a t y o u
a r e r a is in g .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
s a y in g C h a ir.

Page 185 of 258

T h a t ’s

what

I’ m

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON :

Ja, thank you.

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a n k y o u C h a ir. I f I c a n th e n ta k e

y o u t o th e n e x t. . .( in t e r v e n t i o n ) .
CHAIRPERSON :

S o r r y y o u d i d t e l l u s – y o u s a y t h is le t t e r, th e c o p y

w e h a v e a t p a g e 1 4 7 d o e s n ’t s h o w t h e a u t h o r b u t y o u d id s a y i t w a s t h e
DPP for Southern Gauteng?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir o n t h e o r i g i n a l

– n o t t h e o r i g i n a l , th e c o p y t h a t I h a v e I t h i n k a d v o c a t e C h a u k e s ig n e d
t h e l e t te r b u t i f C h a ir w o u l d l o o k a t t h e to p it s a y s w i t h e n q u ir i e s , G S
10

M a h e m a , t h a t ’s a d v o c a t e M a h e m a s o if th e y fo ll o w e d th e s a m e
p r o c e d u r e th a t w e d o i n S A P S t h e p e r s o n d r a f t s t h e l e t te r, h is n a m e is
in t h e t o p l e f t u n d e r e n q u i r i e s a n d i t ’s s i g n e d o ff b y t h e h e a d o f t h e
o ffic e .
CHAIRPERSON :

Oh but this one was signed by who?

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

If my memory serves

m e c o r r e c t ly i t w a s a d v o c a t e C h a u k e C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

C h a u k e ja o k a y t h a n k y o u .

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

I n c o n ti n u a n c e o f y o u r e v i d e n c e

c o n c e r n i n g y o u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g o f M in is t e r M t h e t h w a ’s i n v o lv e m e n t I
20

a s k y o u t o g o to p a g e 1 4 9 w h ic h i s A n n e x u r e J W B 1 4 o f th e s a m e
B u n d l e Ex h i b it Z A .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h e r e a p p e a r s i n t h e m id d le o f
t h e p a g e a n e m a i l a n d I s h a l l r e a d fr o m A d v o c a te K M A C h a u k e s e n t 1 2
J u n e 2 0 1 2 0 5 : 1 4 p m to C y r il S M a l o ts h w a , C C To k o , J M a jo k w e n e ,

Page 186 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
P a le s s a , N P M a ts e , S e ll o M a h e m a , R a y m o n d R M a t e n g w a t h e s u b je c t is
R e In d ic t m e n t C a t o M a n o r. W h a t is y o u r o b s e r v a t i o n i n r e la t io n t o t h is
p a r t ic u l a r e m a i l ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir t h i s is c l e a r l y a
c o m m u n ic a ti o n b e t w e e n A d v o c a t e S i m p h i w e M l o ts h w a a n d C h a ir I ju s t
w a n t t o s a y s o m e t h i n g a b o u t A d v o c a t e S i m p h iw e M l o ts h w a n o t t o
c o n fu s e m a t t e r s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
10

T h e r e i s a n o th e r

A d v o c a t e Ml o ts h w a h e is J J M lo ts h w a .
CHAIRPERSON : Oh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : From Gauteng.
CHAIRPERSON : Oh.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o th is M l o ts h w a h e r e
t h a t i s A d v o c a t e S i m p h iw e M lo t s h w a w h o r e c e i v e d th is e m a i l f r o m
Advocate Chauke.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :

I t h in k t h a t w a s

p u r s u a n t t o th e c o n v e r s a t io n s t h e y h a d a b o u t t h e s i g n in g o f d o c u m e n t s
20

w h ic h A d v o c a t e S i m p h i w e M lo t s h w a s e e m s t o h a v e b e e n r e lu c t a n t t o
do.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h t h e K Z N a c ti n g D P P a t th e ti m e ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

Page 187 of 258

And there were also

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
o th e r i s s u e s t h a t t h e y e x p e c t e d h i m t o d o . B u t C h a ir th e s e c o n d to la s t
p a r a g r a p h A d v o c a te C h a u k e w r i t e s :
“ An o t h e r is s u e o f c o n c e r n t o m e is th e d e l a y i n y o u
is s u i n g t h e i n s tr u c t io n o f th e r e o p e n i n g

o f th e

in q u e s t in v ie w o f th e f a c t th a t y o u h a v e b e e n
r e q u e s t e d t o s i g n th e i n d ic t m e n t w h ic h m u s t b e
p r e c e d e d b y y o u r d e c i s i o n t o r e o p e n t h e in q u e s t .”
A n d t h e n t h e f o ll o w i n g s e n te n c e i s t h e o n e I w a n t t o p o in t o u t C h a ir.
“ I f t h i s m a k e s y o u u n c o m f o r ta b l e p le a s e i n d ic a te s o
10

t h a t I m a y u r g e n tly t a k e t h e m a t te r u p w i th th e a c ti n g
N D P P w h i c h w a s A d v o c a t e J i b a a t t h e ti m e a s w e ll a s
t h e M i n i s t e r.”
N o w h e d o e s n o t s a y th e r e w h i c h M i n is t e r i t is C h a ir. It c o u l d b e a n y
M i n is t e r b u t …
CHAIRPERSON :

W e ll w h e n I r e a d t h i s I w r o t e o n th e s i d e w h i c h

M i n is t e r i s t h is ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHA N WESSEL BOO YSEN :

W e l l C h a ir m y – th e

o n ly i n f e r e n c e th a t I c a n d r a w g i v e n t h e h is t o r y o f M i n is t e r M t e tw a ’s
in v o lv e m e n t h i s o ff ic e r s i n v o lv e m e n t t h e o n ly in f e r e n c e t h a t I c a n c o m e
20

t o t h a t i t – h e w a s r e f e r r i n g t o t h e M i n i s t e r M t e tw a .

That does not

n e c e s s a r i ly i m p li c a t e M in is t e r M t e t w a b u t t h e q u e s ti o n t h a t I w o u l d
p o s e is w h y w o u l d C h a u k e h a v e t h e li b e r ty t o s a y w e l l h e w a n ts t o t a k e
it u p w it h t h e M i n is t e r ?
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

Page 188 of 258

W h ic h w o u ld h a v e

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
b e e n i n a p p r o p r i a te .
C H A I R P E R S O N : W e l l t h e m e e t in g t o w h ic h y o u r e f e r r e d to e a r l i e r a n d
in r e s p e c t o f w h i c h y o u h a v e p r o d u c e d a t y p e d v e r s i o n o f c e r t a i n n o t e s ,
h a n d w r i t t e n n o t e s i n d ic a t e t h a t t h a t m e e t in g i n w h i c h th e M in is t e r is
s a i d t o h a v e a t te n d e d w i th a m o n g o t h e r p u b l ic p r o s e c u to r s o r N D – N PA
people was on the 8 March 2012?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s s o C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d th is l e t te r o r e m a il i s d a t e d 1 2 J u n e 2 0 1 2 ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A fe w m o n th s l a te r –
10

t h r e e m o n th s l a te r C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a . Ye s . O k a y t h a n k y o u .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

T h a n k y o u . A n d t h e n i t is t h e

la s t p a r t t o th e M o k g o r o R e p o r t .
CHAIRPERSON :

I am sorry I think that last paragraph may be

i m p o r t a n t. M r C h a u k e s a y s t o – o r A d v o c a te C h a u k e s a y s t o A d v o c a te
M l o ts h w a i n th e l a s t p a r a g r a p h :
“ I d o n o t w a n t t o s t e p o n y o u r to e s I w a s i n f o r m e d
t h a t y o u a g r e e d a n d a r r a n g e d w it h t h e A N D P P f o r
s o m e b o d y a n d t h e n I d o n o t s e e o u ts id e t o d o t h e
20

p r o s e c u t i o n o f t h is m a t t e r. I f y o u h a v e n o w a c h a n g e
o f h e a r t p l e a s e i n d ic a t e s o t h a t w e m a y r e s o l v e i t a s
s o o n a s p o s s ib le .”
I t r e f e r s t o a p o s s ib l e w h a t b r in g i n g i n o f o u ts i d e p e o p l e ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t d o e s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . O k a y t h a n k y o u .

Page 189 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

If w e m a y

t h e n ju s t tu r n t o a g a in E x h ib i t Z [ G ] w h ic h i s t h e M o k g o r o R e p o r t a n d
a g a in w it h o u t d e tr a c ti n g fr o m t h e d e t a i l o f M o s i n g ’s v e r s io n a s r e c o r d e d
fr o m p a g e 1 2 7 a n d o n .

Th e r e p o r t t h e n d e a ls w i th t h e e v a lu a ti o n o f

r a c k e t e e r i n g c a s e l a w a t p a g e 1 3 0 . In p a r ti c u la r a t p a g e 1 3 5 i t t a l k s t o
t h e B o o y s e n c a s e . A n d j u s t to h i g h l ig h t J i b a ’s e v id e n c e o n B o o y s e n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : A r e y o u b a c k o n th e M o k g o r o R e p o r t ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. A n d w h a t p a g e ?
10

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

S o C h a ir w i ll r e c a l l t h a t

M o s i n g ’s v e r s i o n – j u s t m is s e d i t n o w. M o s in g ’s v e r s i o n w i t h o u t d e …
CHAIRPERSON : Okay I have got it. 127 hey?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d w it h o u t d e t r a c t i n g f r o m th e
p a r t ic u l a r i ty o f d e t a il in h e r e t h e r e p o r t c o n t i n u e s t o d e a l w i t h th e
e v a l u a t i o n o f r a c k e te e r in g c a s e l a w o n p a g e 1 3 0 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d i n p a r t ic u l a r d e a ls w i t h th e
20

Booysen case on page 135.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

To h ig h li g h t to y o u C h a i r a t

p a g e 1 3 8 J i b a ’s e v id e n c e o n B o o y s e n i s r e c o r d e d a t p a r a g r a p h 4 3 0 t o
453.

A n d e ff e c ti v e ly th is s e c ti o n i n r e la t io n t o th e B o o y s e n c a s e a s

c o n s i d e r e d b y t h e in q u ir y e n d s a t p a g e 1 4 3 .

Page 190 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th e o n ly o th e r r e f e r e n c e t o t h e
B o o y s e n c a s e o r th e p e r ti n e n t s e c t i o n s t h e n i s a t p a g e 3 11 o f t h e
report.
CHAIRPERSON :

D o y o u k n o w w h e t h e r – w h e t h e r M o s in g i s t h e o n e

w h o m a d e t h e h a n d w r i tt e n n o t e s is i t n o t?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :

D o y o u k n o w w h e th e r t h e is s u e o f t h o s e n o t e s a n d

w h a t t h e y m e a n a n d w h o w a s p r e s e n t a t t h a t m e e ti n g is c o v e r e d i n
10

a n y w a y in t h e r e p o r t? I w a s tr y i n g t o s e e w h e t h e r t h a t is c o v e r e d .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

I f y o u c o u l d ju s t – th e r e is

c e r t a i n l y r e f e r e n c e t o th e n o t e s – t o th e – t o t h e – t o t h e m e e t i n g C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

A n d th a t r e f e r e n c e is a t p a g e

128.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : P a r a g r a p h 3 9 6 a n d 3 9 7 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : B u t a s t o t h e n o t e s in i ts e l f I d o
20

n o t s p e c if ic a l ly r e c a l l m e n t i o n m a d e o f s u c h n o te s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : W e l l I s e e th a t i n p a r a g r a p h 3 9 7 o f t h e r e p o r t i t s a y s
n o t a b ly M o s in g d o e s n o t s ta t e t h a t m y – m y a n d o th e r p r o s e c u t o r s fr o m
o u t s i d e o f K Z N w e r e a ls o a t th e m e e t in g a n d h a d a lr e a d y b e e n ta s k e d
w i t h p r o s e c u ti n g th e m a t te r. Ye s o k a y c o n t in u e .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

Thank you.

Page 191 of 258

As a ll u d e d to

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
e a r l ie r a t p a r a g r a p h – s o r r y a t p a g e 3 11 o f t h e r e p o r t t h e e v i d e n c e
r e l a t e d t o t h e c a s e s a r e th e n e v a l u a t e d a n d th e B o o y s e n p r o s e c u ti o n i s
s p e c i f ic a l ly d e a l t w i th u n d e r p a r a g r a p h 6 . 1 .5 . 1 r u n n in g fr o m p a r a g r a p h
1 0 6 8 u n ti l 1 0 7 8 o n p a g e 3 1 3 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

R e f e r e n c e i s a ls o a ll u d e d t o

B o o y s e n i n p a g e 3 2 7 a n d a l t h o u g h i t r e la t e s t o o t h e r e v i d e n c e a s s u c h
u n d e r 7 .1 – p a r a g r a p h – s o r r y p a r a g r a p h j a 7 . O r c la u s e 7 .1 J i b a
r e fe r e n c e i s m a d e s p e c i f ic a l ly a t p a r a g r a p h 11 2 7 . 2 w h e r e i t r e a d s :
10

“ W i th

regards

to

the

Booysen

p r o s e c u ti o n

the

e v i d e n c e e s ta b lis h e s t h a t s h e a ll o w e d a n d i n f a c t
enabled

the

in d e p e n d e n c e

of

th e

N PA

to

be

c o m p r is e d . ”
A t p a r a g r a p h 11 2 7 .3 i t r e a d s :
“ F u r t h e r m o r e i n t h e B o o y s e n m a t t e r d e s p i t e i n i t ia t in g
t h e p r o s e c u ti o n s h e d id n o t c o n s u l t w i t h th e D P P
w h o s e a p p r o v a l w a s r e q u ir e d a n d w h e n a d i s p u t e
e n s u e d b e tw e e n M l o ts h w a a n d C h a u k e s h e r e f u s e d
t o g e t i n v o lv e d a n d a s s i s t in r e s o l v i n g t h e is s u e .
20

T h i s r e f le c t s a la c k o f le a d e r s h i p .”
S a v e to s t a te t h a t t h e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n w h i c h is b e i n g m a d e o n
p a r a g r a p h – o n p a g e 3 3 5 h a s s in c e b e e n i m p le m e n t e d C h a ir w h ic h is
p u b lic k n o w l e d g e .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
A D V O C AT E

VERUSHKA

SEPTEMB ER :

Page 192 of 258

Those

are

the

p e r t in e n t

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
s e c t io n s o f t h i s r e p o r t w h i c h d e a ls w i th B o o y s e n . I d o w is h t o h o w e v e r
d ir e c t y o u r a t t e n t i o n t o p a g e 3 4 5 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : It is a n a n n e x u r e o f t h e r e p o r t
C h a ir a n d i t is q u i t e a d e t a il e d c h r o n o l o g y o f e v e n ts .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

Fo r

t h e r e c o r d in

th e s e

p r o c e e d i n g s th e r e a r e c e r ta i n ly d a t e s a n d e v e n t s w h ic h a r e i n f o r m e d b y
t h is w i tn e s s ’ e v i d e n c e th a t I b e l ie v e n e e d s t o b e r e a d i n t o th e r e c o r d
10

a n d w i t h y o u r le a v e i f I m a y I w il l d o s o ?
CHAIRPERSON : What do you want to do?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

J u s t r e a d c e r t a i n d a te s a n d

e v e n t s i n t o th e r e c o r d w h ic h is …
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a t h a t is fi n e ja . O k a y. T h e i m p o r ta n t o n e s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

Important to – or not just

i m p o r t a n t b u t i t is a c t u a ll y i n fo r m e d b y t h e e v i d e n c e o f th is w i t n e s s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a t h a t is fi n e .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

O k a y.

If I c o u l d t h e n s ta r t o n

page 345.
20

“ 2 3 D e c e m b e r 1 9 9 8 J i b a ’s a p p li c a t io n to b e a d m i t te d
a s a n a tt o r n e y s tr u c k fr o m t h e r o l e .
6 A u g u s t 2 0 0 0 J i b a a p p o in t e d a s D D P P.”
Page 346.
“ 2 9 N o v e m b e r 2 0 0 7 D e c is i o n t o p r o s e c u t e Z u m a is
t a k e n b y M p s h e a n d Mc C a r t h y.

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1 2 D e c e m b e r 2 0 0 7 J i b a s u s p e n d e d f r o m N PA .
2 8 D e c e m b e r 2 0 0 7 I n d ic t m e n t is s e r v e d o n Z u m a .
J u n e 2 0 0 8 Z u m a l a u n c h e s a p p l ic a ti o n t o r e v ie w a n d
s e t a s i d e t h e d e c is i o n to p r o s e c u te h i m . ”
Next page 347.
“12

September

2008

N ic h o ls o n

J

being

J u s tic e

N i c h o l s o n h a n d s d o w n j u d g m e n t i n fa v o u r o r Zu m a .
1 2 J a n u a r y 2 0 0 9 S C A o v e r t u r n s J u d g e N i c h o l s o n ’s
d e c is i o n t o r e v i e w t h e d e c is io n p r o s e c u t e Z u m a .
10

10

Fe b r u a r y

2009

Zu m a ’s

le g a l

r e p r e s e n t a ti v e s

p r o v i d e r e p r e s e n ta t io n s t o N PA .
3 M a r c h 2 0 0 9 P r o s e c u t i o n t e a m c o n s i d e r e d Z u m a ’s
r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s .”
Next page 348.
“1 April 2009 Mpshe…”
CHAIRPERSON :

W h y w o u l d M r Z u m a ’s le g a l r e p r e s e n ta t io n s w h e n

t h e y w e r e m a d e b e r e le v a n t f o r p u r p o s e s o f th is w i t n e s s ’ e v i d e n c e ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

B e c a u s e t h e w i tn e s s – t h is

p a r t ic u l a r w i t n e s s c e r t a i n l y a ll u d e s t o c e r t a i n a ll e g a t io n s in r e la t io n to
20

P r e s i d e n t J a c o b Z u m a f o r m e r P r e s i d e n t J a c o b Zu m a .
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a b u t I a m s a y i n g – I a m a s k i n g w h y i s t h e q u e s ti o n
o f w h e n h e – Mr Z u m a ’s l a w y e r s m a d e r e p r e s e n t a ti o n to t h e N PA a b o u t
h is c a s e – Mr Zu m a ’s c a s e w o u l d b e r e l e v a n t t o M a j o r G e n e r a l
B o o y s e n ’s e v i d e n c e ? Is th e r e a n y t h i n g I a m m i s s i n g ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

C h a ir th is p a r t ic u l a r w i t n e s s

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m a k e s a s u b m is s i o n a n d t h a t s u b m is s i o n r e l a t e s to t h e p r o s e c u t o r i a l
s y s te m . I a m h a p p y t o d e a l w i t h t h a t …
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a b u t I d id n o t u n d e r s t a n d a n y th i n g th a t y o u s a id s o
f a r t o – t o b e – to th e e ff e c t t h a t h is p r o s e c u t i o n m a y h a v e b e e n
c o n n e c t e d w i t h t h e p r o s e c u t i o n o r n o n - p r o s e c u ti o n o f M r Z u m a .

My

u n d e r s t a n d in g w a s t h a t h is p r o s e c u ti o n w a s c o n c e r n e d w i th th e
in v e s t i g a t io n s t h a t h e o r h i s te a m w e r e i n v o lv e d in r e la t in g t o M r
P a n d a y, C o l o n e l M a d h o e a n d t h e P r o v i n c i a l C o m m i s s i o n e r o f S A R S .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A s i t p l e a s e s C h a ir.
10

CHAIRPERSON :

T h a t d o e s n o t s e e m to m e t o b e c o n n e c t e d i n a n y

w a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A s i t p l e a s e s C h a ir. I a m h a p p y
t o t h e n e x c l u d e s u c h p o r t io n s a n d d e a l w i t h t h e r e s t o f th e m i f I m a y ?
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :
“ 11 J u n e 2 0 0 9 w h i c h is o n p a g e 3 4 8 J ib a r e f e r s
s u s p e n s i o n to L a b o u r C o u r t i n v o k i n g t h e P r o t e c t e d
D i s c l o s u r e s Ac t .”
Next page 349.
20

“4 September 2009 and 8 September 2009. Mrwebi
a n d J ib a s ig n s e t tl e m e n t a g r e e m e n ts w i t h N PA .
9 S e p t e m b e r 2 0 0 9 J i b a …”
C H A I R P E R S O N : O n r e f le c t i o n M s S e p t e m b e r o n r e fl e c t io n i t d o e s n o t
a p p e a r t o m e th a t t h e r e i s m u c h p u r p o s e to b e s e r v e d i n j u s t r e a d in g
t h o s e d a t e s b e c a u s e w e h a v e g o t th e m h e r e .

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A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y n o t a p r o b le m C h a ir. I t is
t h e n p l a c e d b e f o r e th e D C J a n d I a m h a p p y t o m o v e o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a o k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

S o r r y.

I f I c a n th e n t a k e y o u

b a c k to y o u r s t a te m e n ts .
C H A I R P E R S O N : S o m e o f t h e d a t e s m ig h t b e i m p o r t a n t to e m p h a s is e i n
r e l a ti o n t o s p e c if ic e v i d e n c e b y th e w it n e s s .

S o i f t h e r e is s p e c i fi c

e v i d e n c e b y th e w i t n e s s in r e l a t i o n t o a s p e c i f ic in c i d e n t t h e n y o u g o t o
t h o s e d a t e s t o i n d ic a te t h e c o n t e x t .
10

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

A s i t p l e a s e s C h a ir.

We are

n o w o n p a g e 2 5 o f y o u r s t a t e m e n t in p a r tic u l a r p a r a g r a p h 8 3 .
A s it p l e a s e s C h a ir.

W e a r e n o w o n p a g e 2 5 o f y o u r s ta t e m e n t i n

p a r t ic u l a r p a r a g r a p h 8 3 .
CHAIRPERSON : What page did you say?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : P a g e 2 5 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d i t i s Ex h i b it Z [ A ] . I f I c a n
a s k f o r th e fo ll o w i n g s l id e to b e s h o w n a n d t h a t is s li d e 3 . S o r r y s l id e
4. Excuse me.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : I s t h a t a s li d e w e h a v e n o t s e e n b e f o r e ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : We have not seen?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : N o w e h a v e n o t s e e n i t a s y e t.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

I f w e c o u l d – C h a ir y o u c o u l d

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
fi n d a c o p y o f t h a t s li d e i n Ex h ib i t Z [ D ] .
CHAIRPERSON : Z[D]?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s .
CHAIRPERSON :

O k a y.

Is t h e p o i n t t o b e m a d e – is t h e s l i d e q u i t e

i m p o r t a n t f o r t h e p o i n t t o b e m a d e – to b e s h o w n ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. T h a n k y o u . W h a t p a g e a t E x h i b i t Z [D ] .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I t i s Z [ D ] p a g e 4 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. Ye s th a n k y o u .
10

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

S o i f w e c o u l d lo o k a t Z [ D ]

p a g e 4 w h il e th e y – t h e w i tn e s s th e n a d d r e s s e s h is e v i d e n c e fr o m p a g e
8 3 in h i s s ta t e m e n t .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y. Th e n e x t th e m e o f y o u r
e v i d e n c e G e n e r a l B o o y s e n i s th a t y o u a d d r e s s p r o s e c u to r s a n d
in d i v i d u a l p r o s e c u t o r s w i t h i n th e s y s te m .
C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O r th o s e w h o h a d …
C H A I R P E R S O N : J u s t r e p e a t t h a t I d i d n o t h e a r. J u s t r e p e a t th a t .
20

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th e n e x t th e m e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e n e x t t h e m e j a is ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : O f G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ’s e v i d e n c e
is th a t h e n o w a d d r e s s e s p r o s e c u t o r s , i n d i v id u a l p r o s e c u to r s w i t h i n th e
s y s te m i n t h e c o n t e x t o f th e in v e s ti g a t i o n s , t h e f o u r in v e s ti g a t io n s t h a t
h e h a s g iv e n e v i d e n c e to .

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C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y h e w il l g i v e e v i d e n c e a b o u t c e r ta in p r o s e c u t o r s
n o w ? O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

G e n e r a l B o o y s e n th e s li d e

b e f o r e y o u i s a c o m b i n a ti o n o f f o u r in t e r l i n k in g c ir c l e s a n d o n e c ir c le is
m a r k e d p e r i p h e r y.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :
10

Can you please explain what

t h is s li d e r e p r e s e n ts ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir i n m y s ta t e m e n t
I tr i e d t o a r tic u l a t e w h a t is i n …
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n th is d i a g r a m .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : There were a number
o f i n v e s ti g a t i o n s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR

20

GENERAL

JOHAN

WESSEL

BOOYSEN :

The

Panday

in v e s t i g a t io n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h ic h I h a v e te s ti fi e d
a b o u t.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e A m i g o c a s e w h ic h

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
I h a v e te s ti fi e d a b o u t .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

The Cato Manor

in v e s t i g a t io n w h i c h r e l a te s t o t h e i n v e s ti g a ti o n a g a i n s t my s e l f a n d C a t o
M a n o r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

A n d t h e n a ls o th e

lo o ti n g o f th e S e c r e t S e r v ic e s a c c o u n t c a s e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : The point I am making
h e r e C h a ir is th a t i n v a r i a b l y i n a l l t h e s e c a s e s t h e s a m e p r o s e c u t o r s
appear as prosecutors.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : For the state.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :

W e ll i n t h e P a n d a y

in v e s t i g a t io n s c e r t a i n p r o s e c u t o r s – l e t m e s ta r t w i t h t h e C a t o M a n o r
o n e C h a ir.

T h e p r o s e c u t o r s t h a t I h a v e m e n ti o n e d u n d e r C a to M a n o r

a ls o f i g u r e i n t h e w i t h d r a w a l o f c h a r g e s i n t h e P a n d a y m a t te r a n d t h e
20

A m i g o s c a s e . A ls o in c l u d e d i n m y s ta t e m e n t C h a ir w h ic h is n o t p a r t o f
t h is d i a g r a m is t h a t in o t h e r c a s e s t h a t I h a v e k n o w l e d g e o f s u c h a s t h e
s o c a ll e d r e n d it i o n c a s e a g a i n s t S h a d r a c k S i b iy a th e g e n e r a l a n d
G e n e r a l A n w a D r a m a t w h i c h s u b s e q u e n tl y a l s o l e d to t h e s u s p e n s i o n s
o f M r M c Br id e f o r a s o c a l l e d s e c o n d r e p o r t th a t h e h a d c h a n g e d .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : T h e S A R S m a t t e r, th e
s o c a ll e d r o g u e u n i t o f M r J o h a n Va n L o g g e n b e r g . I v a n Pi ll a y a n d Mr
Pravin Gordhan.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

I n e v i t a b ly th e s a m e

p r o s e c u t o r s a r e a lw a y s i n v o lv e d w it h th o s e p r o s e c u ti o n s .

On the one

h a n d t h e y p r o s e c u t e p e o p l e l ik e my s e l f .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
10

Pr a v i n G o r d h a n ,

J o h a n Va n L o g g e n b e r g , A n w a D r a m a t, S h a d r a c k Si b iy a , M r M c Br id e ,
Sesoko, Ncuba.
Breytenbach was.

I c a n n o t r e c a ll w h o t h e p r o s e c u t o r a g a in s t G ly n n i s
S o y o u h a v e t h is g r o u p o f p r o s e c u t o r s a l w a y s

in v o lv e d in t h e p r o s e c u t i o n s o f p e o p l e t h a t a r e b u s y w i t h in v e s ti g a t io n s
o f c o r r u p ti o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n t h i s – i n th e S A R S
m a t t e r M r J o h a n Va n L o g g e n b e r g , Iv a n P i ll a y a n d P r a v in G o r d h a n th a t
h a s b e e n w e ll d o c u m e n te d i n t h e m e d i a . T h e y w e r e r u n n i n g a p a r a ll e l
in v e s t i g a t io n i n to s o m e o f th e s u b j e c ts t h a t w e w e r e in v e s ti g a t in g …
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n c r i m in a l m a t t e r s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I t i s j u s t – I ju s t f i n d i t
v e r y o d d t h a t t h e s a m e p r o s e c u to r s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Are always involved in
prosecuting
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I w o u ld c a ll t h e m t h e
c o r r u p ti o n b u s t e r s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d th e n t h e s a m e –
s o m e o f t h e s a m e p r o s e c u to r s a r e th e n i n v o lv e d i n t h e w i th d r a w a l o f
c h a r g e s a g a in s t p e o p l e th a t w e h a v e b e e n i n v e s ti g a t i n g a n d t h a t
10

a lr e a d y b e e n p r o s e c u te d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : H ’ m . W e l l y o u w e r e r e f e r r i n g to th e f a c t th a t y o u d e a l
w i t h th is i n y o u r s t a te m e n t . I d o n o t k n o w w h e t h e r y o u w o u ld li k e t o g o
t o y o u r s ta t e m e n t a n d m e n t i o n w h ic h p r o s e c u to r w a s in v o lv e d in w h ic h
matter and so on and so on.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n f a c t C h a ir if I m a y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Th e d ia g r a m b e fo r e y o u .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . I s a w th a t i t d o e s …
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : P r e s e n t s …

20

C H A I R P E R S O N : H a v e b u t I g o t t h e i m p r e s s io n t h a t I m a y b e w r o n g i t
s e e m e d t o h a v e o r I t h o u g h t it h a d o n ly a fe w. I th o u g h t h e m ig h t b e
h a v i n g m o r e p e o p le in m i n d I a m n o t s u r e . D o e s h e h a v e a ll ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : I t h a s a ll ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s .

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h o k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n f a c t it is a r e p r e s e n t a ti o n o f
…
C H A I R P E R S O N : O f w h a t i s i n t h e s t a t e m e n t.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A ll o f t h e p r o s e c u to r s th a t h e i s
a b o u t t o d e a l w i t h i n d i v i d u a lly.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : A n d …
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

And

the

scheme

o f th is

p a r t ic u l a r d i a g r a m is t h a t P a n d a y I n v e s t ig a ti o n is th e b l u e c ir c le ,
A m i g o s c a s e i s t h e r e d c ir c le , L o o ti n g o f S e c r e t S e r v ic e a c c o u n t i s t h e
y e l l o w c ir c le , C a t o M a n o r i s t h e g r e e n c ir c le . W h e r e t h e s e c ir c l e s th e n
in t e r l a c e th o s e w o u ld r e p r e s e n t p u b lic p r o s e c u t o r s .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s I t h i n k – I t h in k t h e p o i n t t h a t M a jo r G e n e r a l

B o o y s e n y o u w a n t to m a k e I d o n o t k n o w if y o u a r e c o n fi d e n t th a t y o u
h a v e m a d e i t s u ff ic i e n tly c le a r ly o r m a y b e M s S e p t e m b e r w a s s ti ll g o in g
t o c o m e to i t to s i m p ly s a y i n – o r p r o s e c u to r – s o a n d s o o n – s o a n d
s o w a s i n v o l v e d i n t h a t c a s e , a n d th a t c a s e a n d t h a t c a s e t h is is w h a t
20

h e d i d i n t h a t c a s e . I n t h a t o t h e r c a s e h e w a s a l s o i n v o lv e d a n d t h is is
what happened in that case.

I n th a t o t h e r c a s e th e o th e r o n e w a s

in v o lv e d a n d th a t is w h a t h e d id . I th o u g h t m a y b e th a t m i g h t b e w h a t
y o u w a n te d to s a y b u t y o u m i g h t o r m ig h t o r n o t f e e l t h a t y o u w a n t to .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir I a m s c a r e d th a t
I m ig h t l e a v e o u t s o m e p o i n ts .

Page 202 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d th a t is …
CHAIRPERSON :

D o y o u w a n t t o r e a d y o u r s ta t e m e n t b e c a u s e y o u

have..
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

I w i ll ju s t r e f e r t o i t

C h a ir I w ill n o t r e a d i t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a . O k a y ju s t r e f e r to i t t o r e fr e s h y o u r m e m o r y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

S o C h a ir I h a v e –

w h a t I h a v e d o n e is I h a v e – I a m n a m in g c e r ta i n p r o s e c u t o r s .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

That I feel were not

n e c e s s a r y s t a te c a p t u r e r s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

But enabled state

c a p tu r i n g .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d t h e n a ft e r th a t I
d e a l w i t h s p e c i f ic i n d i v i d u a ls w i t h i n t h e H a w k s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

That I would say

e n a b l e d s ta t e c a p t u r e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
le s s e r e x t e n t.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

Page 203 of 258

A n d t h e n a ls o to a

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e S A P S .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Members who enabled
s t a te c a p tu r e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

S o C h a ir i f I s h o u l d

start.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR
10

GENERAL JOHAN

WESSEL B OOYSEN:

With Advocate

N o m g c o b o J ib a .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : B e fo r e w e g e t t h e r e . I f I m a y ?
A t p a r a g r a p h – a t p a g e 2 6 o f y o u r a ff id a v i t y o u a l lu d e t o t h e p r i o r it y
c r i m e s li t ig a ti o n u n i t .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I d o C h a ir.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

C a n – t h e r e is a lr e a d y b e e n

e v i d e n c e p l a c e d b e f o r e th is c o m m i s s i o n in r e l a ti o n t o t h a t th r o u g h
a n o t h e r w it n e s s b u t c a n I a s k y o u t o j u s t c la r i fy a n d e x p l a i n w h a t y o u
m e a n b y h i g h l ig h t in g th is p a r t ic u l a r u n i t?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

Chair the PCLU

P r i o r i t y C r i m e s L it i g a t io n U n i t w a s c r e a te d b y P r e s i d e n ti a l P r o c l a m a ti o n
20 – on the 23 March 2003.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

N o w t h e ir fo c u s

should

Fore ign

be

genocide,

crimes

against

h u m a n it y,

M il it a r y

A s s is ta n c e A c t , I n t e ll i g e n c e S e r v i c e s A c t a n d I n t e r n a ti o n a l Te r r o r is m .

Page 204 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
T h e p o in t I w a n t to m a k e h e r e i s t h a t I f i n d i t v e r y s tr a n g e th a t s o m e o f
t h e p r o s e c u t o r s f r o m t h is – f r o m t h e P C L U w o u l d i n v o lv e t h e ms e lv e s
w i t h in v e s t i g a t io n s a g a i n s t t h e lik e s o f Mc B r i d e , D r a m a t , S h a d r a c k
S i b iy a f o r c a s e s I w il l n o t s a y t h a t a r e n o t s e r i o u s b u t t h e y a r e
r e l a ti v e ly m u c h l e s s s e r i o u s t h a n t h e t h i n g s t h a t t h e y s h o u l d b e d e a l in g
with. Such…
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

F o r i n s t a n c e th e y

w o u ld p r o s e c u t e c e r t a i n p e o p l e t h a t I h a v e n o w m e n t i o n e d f o r fr a u d .
10

That does not fall into the remit of what they should be doing in the
fir s t p la c e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s . J a y o u – th e p o i n t – p a r t o f t h e p o i n t y o u
a r e m a k i n g is t h e y w e r e c r e a t e d f o r p u r p o s e s o f d e a li n g w it h v e r y
s e r io u s m a t t e r s w h ic h fa ll w i t h i n a c e r t a in c a t e g o r y.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s .
CHAIRPERSON :

Yo u k n o w g e n o c i d e y o u m e n ti o n e d a n d y o u m e n ti o n

o th e r s a n d y o u s a y b u t t h e y w e r e n o w in v o lv i n g t h e ms e lv e s i n m a t t e r s
t h a t i n te r ms o f p r io r i ty y o u w o u l d n o t e x p e c t th e m t o b e r e a ll y
in v o lv i n g th e m s e lv e s in . T h a t is th e p o in t y o u m a k e ?
20

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A b s o l u t e ly C h a ir a n d I
w i ll r e fe r t o th is l a t e r o n a g a in w h e n I t a l k a b o u t L a w E n f o r c e m e n t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : Within the Hawks you
h a v e a n d I w i ll d e a l w i t h th a t l a te r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

Page 205 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

Yo u h a v e c r i m e s

a g a in s t t h e s t a t e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOY SEN:

O f w h o m B r ig a d i e r

Ncaba is the head.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR

GENERAL

JOHAN

WESSEL

BOOYSEN :

Also

involving

themselves.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W i th t h e s e I w o u l d – I
w i ll n o t c a ll th e m m e n ia l i n v e s t ig a ti o n s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : But much less serious
in v e s t i g a t io n s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

C h a ir I j u s t w a n t t o

p o i n t o u t th is s t a t e m e n t o f m i n e I d e p o s e d t o la s t y e a r N o v e m b e r
a lr e a d y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W e ll I c o m p il e d i n l a s t
y e a r N o v e m b e r a lr e a d y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : And in this statement
o f m in e I m e n t i o n t h a t t h o s e p r o s e c u t o r s s h o u l d b e d e a li n g w it h c a s e s
a n d t h a t is b e f o r e I h e a r d th e e v id e n c e o f M r A g r iz z i .

Page 206 of 258

I did not even

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
k n o w w h o M r A g r i z z i w a s . A n d h e r e i n m y s t a te m e n t I s a i d th a t t h e y
s h o u l d b e – s h o u l d h a v e b e e n d e a l in g w it h m a t te r s s u c h a s B o s a s a ,
s t a te c a p tu r e s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR

GENERAL

JOHAN

WESSEL

BOOYSEN :

The

G u p t a ’s ,

S t e i n h o ff .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A ll th o s e c a s e s w h i c h
s e r io u s ly a ffe c t e d th e e c o n o m y o f th e c o u n tr y.
10

CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : But yet they choose to
in v o lv e

themselves

with

in v e s t i g a t io n s

against

people

that

are

in v e s t i g a t in g c o r r u p t i o n . N o t a l l o f th e m a r e f r o m t h e P C L U C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Some of them.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

And – but they work

c lo s e ly t o g e t h e r w it h th e p r o s e c u t o r s t h a t I w i ll a d d r e s s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t y o u m e n t io n y e s .
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL B OOYSEN :

In my – in my

s t a te m e n t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

I f I c a n th e n ta k e y o u t o p a g e

2 7 o f y o u r a ffi d a v it a n d t o p a r a g r a p h 8 9 i n p a r t ic u l a r.
CHAIRPERSON : Paragraph?

Page 207 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : S o p a g e 2 7 p a r a g r a p h 8 9 .
CHAIRPERSON : 59 or 89?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : 8 9 C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Page 27?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

Page 27 of Exhibit Z[A] which

is t h e a ff i d a v i t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h o k a y. I k n o w w e h a v e t o j u g g l e w i th a l l o f th e s e . .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

S o w e w ill w o r k t h r o u g h t h e

a ffi d a v i t n o w.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : W i t h t h e s e t h r e e l e v e r a r c h fi le s h e r e . Z [ A ] ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

Z [ A ] th e s t a te m e n t o r a ffi d a v i t

r a th e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d w h a t is t h e p a g e – 2 7 ?
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : P a g e 2 7 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. Ye s .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : P a r a g r a p h 8 9 .
CHAIRPERSON :

Maybe before you proceed we are at either one

m i n u t e t o fo u r o r 4 o ’ c l o c k . N o r m a ll y w e w o u ld s t o p a t 4 o ’ c l o c k b u t i f
y o u a r e n o t to o t ir e d M a jo r - G e n e r a l B o o y s e n I a m q u i te h a p p y t h a t w e
20

c o n ti n u e m a y b e fo r a n o t h e r h o u r to tr y a n d c o v e r m o r e g r o u n d .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I a m g o o d w i t h th a t

C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Is th a t f i n e w i t h y o u ?
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : As i t p le a s e s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. T h a n k y o u . L e t u s p r o c e e d t h e n .

Page 208 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

At paragraph 89 if you make a

c e r t a i n a s s e r ti o n i n r e la t io n t o y o u r v i e w b a s e d o n y o u r e x p e r i e n c e
w i t h i n th e p o lic e p l e a s e e x p la in y o u r v i e w t o t h e C h a ir.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir i n t h is – i n t h is
p a r a g r a p h I m a k e t h e a s s e r ti o n t h a t t h e s e p r o s e c u t o r s t h a t I a m
m e n ti o n i n g in m y s t a te m e n t a c te d a t t h e b e h e s t o f A d v o c a t e J i b a .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
bidding
10

of

the

th e n

State

Pr e s i d e n t

Who was doing the

Mr Jacob Zuma

and

a ls o

Richard Mdluli.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h e n I c o n s u lt e d w i t h
A d v o c a t e S e p t e m b e r y e s t e r d a y s h e s a i d t o m e i t is a w il d s t a te m e n t t o
make.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And I have to at least
s u b s t a n t ia t e t h a t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d C h a ir I w o u l d l ik e

20

to.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

To

do

it

in

the

f o ll o w i n g w a y.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 209 of 258

I j u s t m e n ti o n a f e w

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
things.

O v e r a n d a b o v e w h a t tr a n s p ir e d a n d e v o l v e d o v e r t h e l a s t

c o u p l e o f y e a r s t h e i n e s c a p a b l e c o n c lu s i o n – t h a t i s th e in e s c a p a b l e
c o n c l u s i o n t h a t I c o m e t o - b u t I w o u l d l ik e ju s t t o p o i n t o u t a fe w
things.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W h e n A d v o c a t e J ib a

a r r e s t e d – w a s p a r t o f t h e te a m w h o a r r e s t e d A d v o c a t e G e r r i e N e l
d u r i n g t h i s J a c k ie S e le b i tr i a l .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Subsequent.
CHAIRPERSON :

I guess you mean authorised the arrest or I do not

k n o w i f s h e w o u ld h a v e a u th o r is e d ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

N o , I t h in k s h e –

between.
C H A I R P E R S O N : B e c a u s e i t is t h e p o l ic e w h o w o u ld a r r e s t . I s i t n o t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Ye s .

J a w e ll r a t h e r

n o t c o in c i d e n t a l ly t h e s a m e G e n e r a l M a b u l a w h o a r r e s te d G e r r i e N e l
a ls o a r r e s t e d m e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

In c o n ju n c t io n w i t h

J ib a .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A f t e r G e r r i e N e l – th e
c a s e a g a i n s t G e r r i e N e l w a s w i t h d r a w n J i b a w a s s u s p e n d e d fo r h e r r o l e
in h is a r r e s t .

Page 210 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y. I d i d n o t h e a r t h a t .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A f t e r G e r r i e N e l – th e
c a s e a g a i n s t G e r r i e N e l w a s w i th d r a w n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A d v o c a t e J ib a

was

suspended.
CHAIRPERSON : Suspended, yes.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

F o r h e r r o le i n th e

arrest of Gerrie Nel.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S h e c h a ll e n g e d th e

matter in the Labour Court.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And

s tr a n g e l y

th e

p e r s o n w h o c a m e to h e r a i d t h e r e a n d w h o d e p o s e d t o a s t a t e m e n t i n
h e r f a v o u r w a s R i c h a r d M d lu li .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

S o t h e r e w a s a n a ffi d a v i t i n h e r a p p l ic a t i o n to

t h e L a b o u r C o u r t a n d t h e r e w a s a n a ff id a v it in c l u d e d i n h e r a p p l ic a ti o n
t h a t h a d b e e n d e p o s e d to b y M r M d l u l i ?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I d o n o t k n o w th e

e x a c t e x te n t o f t h e s t a te m e n t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
c o n fir m a t o r y o r w h e t h e r i t w a s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

Page 211 of 258

Where it was just a

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

H is o w n s t a t e m e n t

but.
CHAIRPERSON : There was some?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

The statement was in

favour of – of.
C H A I R P E R S O N : S u p p o r ti n g ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Of Jiba.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S u p p o r ti n g .
10

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e r a p p lic a ti o n .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

The

second

t h in g

C h a ir I w o u ld l ik e t o p o in t o u t is o n 8 S e p te m b e r 2 0 1 0 t h e h u s b a n d o f
Advocate Nomgcobo Jiba

–

S ik h u m b u z o B o o k e r N h a n ts i

–

whom

I

b e li e v e w a s a n a t t o r n e y.
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

He had been charged

f o r t h e ft o f tr u s t m o n e y.
20

CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Wa s c o n v i c te d .

I

cannot remember what the sentence was.
CHAIRPER SON: Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
8 September 2010.

Page 212 of 258

But

on

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

The

–

th e

then

Ex p u n g e d

h is

President Mr Jacob Zuma.
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
c o n v i c ti o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d th e t h i r d p o i n t I

w a n t to m a k e C h a ir to v a li d a t e m y p a r a g r a p h o f 8 9 .
10

CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d i t w a s a le t t e r

w r i t t e n b y R i c h a r d M d l u li to t h e t h e n S t a t e P r e s i d e n t .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n N o v e m b e r 2 0 11 .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n w h ic h h e s a y s :
“ I n t h e e v e n t th a t I c o m e b a c k t o w o r k …”
Because he had now been suspended.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : At the time.
“ I n t h e e v e n t t h a t I c o m e b a c k to w o r k I w i ll a s s is t
t h e P r e s i d e n t to s u c c e e d n e x t y e a r.”
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h i s is n o w 2 0 0 0 a n d ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : 2 0 11 C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d 11 .

Page 213 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o v e m b e r 2 0 11 .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. I s t h a t a le t t e r t h a t w e h a v e o r ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : N o C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : N o . It is n o t a l e t t e r w e h a v e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: No.
CHAIRPERSON : But you know about it?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I k n o w a b o u t it a n d

t h is w a s w i d e ly r e p o r t e d i n t h e m e d i a a t th e t i m e C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I t h i n k th is w a s j u s t

b e f o r e th e P o l o k w a n e A N C C o n f e r e n c e C h a ir . I a m n o t t o o s u r e .
CHAIRPERSON :

N o P o l o k w a n e i f I r e c a ll c o r r e c t ly w a s 2 0 0 7 .

2012

was Mangaung.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : I think it was that one
C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

So

C h a ir

h a v in g

r e g a r d t o w h a t t h e e v i d e n c e le a d e r to ld m e – i t is a w il d s t a te m e n t to
make.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I

just

w a n te d

to

m e n ti o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
o f.

Page 214 of 258

T h o s e a r e h i g h li g h ts

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C o n n e c ti o n s th a t I

d r a w.
CHAIRPERSON : That you are making, yes.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

B u t t h e r e a r e a ls o

o th e r e v e n t s t h a t m a k e s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th a t c a u s e s m e t o

come to that conclusion.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir I s t a r t o ff b y

s a y in g th a t A d v o c a t e J i b a h a s b e e n a t th e c e n tr e o f c o n tr o v e r s y a t t h e
N a t io n a l P r o s e c u t in g A u th o r i ty fo r a b e t t e r p a r t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Of the – of a decade.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Fo r o n e s h e fr u s tr a te d
lo b b y g r o u p s t o h a v e t h e c r i m in a l c h a r g e s a g a i n s t t h e P r e v i o u s
President Mr Jacob Zuma.
20

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

R e i n s t i tu t e d .

She

fr u s tr a te d th e m b y r e le a s in g t h e s o c a l l e d S p y Ta p e s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
I th in k – it e v e n t u a l ly l a n d e d u p i n t h e S C A .

Page 215 of 258

T h e y w e r e e v e n t u a l ly

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W h e r e th e y – w h e r e

t h e y w e r e c o m p e ll e d t o r e l e a s e i t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : She also paid.
C H A I R P E R S O N : S o j u s t to r e fr e s h o n e s m e m o r y. T h e S p y c a s e – t h e
S p y Ta p e s c a s e – a m I c o r r e c t i n t h i n k i n g t h a t i n i t ia ll y w h a t t h e
D e m o c r a tic A ll ia n c e - b e c a u s e I th i n k th e y a r e t h e o n e s w h o b r o u g h t a n
a p p lic a ti o n t o c o u r t . W h a t t h e y s o u g h t w a s to b e f u r n i s h e d w i th t h o s e
10

t a p e s a n d w h a t y o u a r e s a y i n g is th a t A d v o c a t e J ib a b e e n A c t in g
N a t io n a l D ir e c to r o f P u b l ic P r o s e c u t i o n s a t t h e ti m e w o u l d h a v e b e e n
t h e o n e t o m a k e a d e c is io n w h e t h e r t o r e le a s e t h o s e ta p e s o r n o t b u t
y o u s a y s h e r e f u s e d . Is th a t w h a t y o u a r e s a y in g ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S h e fr u s tr a te d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u s a y s h e fr u s t r a t e d t h a t p r o c e s s ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t is

– t h a t is

c o r r e c t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y a lr i g h t .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

C h a ir a s y o u w o u l d

r e c a l l th e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th e S p y Ta p e s w e r e

c e n tr a l to t h e w i t h d r a w a l o f c r i m in a l c h a r g e s a g a i n s t t h e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 216 of 258

Th e p r e v i o u s S t a t e

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
President.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a i r A d v o c a t e J ib a

w a s a ls o in v o lv e d – a n d i t h a s c o m e o u t n o w i n J u d g e M o k g o r o ’s
in q u ir y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : With the withdrawal of
c h a r g e s a g a i n s t R ic h a r d M d l u l i.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
10

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S h e w a s a ls o i n v o l v e d
with.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S h e w a s a ls o i n v o l v e d
w i t h – w e ll A d v o c a te G ly n n is B r e y te n b a c h w h o i n s is te d o n p r o s e c u ti n g
J ib a w a s t h e n s u s p e n d e d – B r e y te n b a c h i n s is t e d o n p r o s e c u ti n g M d l u l i .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

She

was

then

s u s p e n d e d b y – b y A d v o c a t e J ib a .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S h e w a s fo u n d n o t

g u il ty in t h a t d i s c ip li n a r y h e a r in g a f t e r h e r s u s p e n s i o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

That

was

now

Breytenbach.
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s .

I a m t r y in g t o r e m e m b e r b u t m a y b e y o u m i g h t

Page 217 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
r e m e m b e r b e tt e r.

T h e s u s p e n s i o n o f A d v o c a te B r e y te n b a c h r e l a t e d –

d i d i t r e l a te t o h e r h a n d l i n g o f t h e M d l u li m a t t e r o r w a s i t o n s o m e t h in g
e ls e o r i s t h a t t h e d e ta il t h a t y o u c a n n o t r e m e m b e r ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir I c a n n o t r e c a l l

w h a t th e y s u s p e n d e d h e r f o r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

B u t i t i s m y v ie w a n d

it is b o r n e o u t b y a n u m b e r o f .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Fo r i n s t a n c e t h e -

t h is .
CHAIRPERSON : Mokgoro Report.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n q u ir y.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

That

-

it

was

A d v o c a t e Br e y t e n b a c h ’s in s t a n c e o n p r o s e c u ti n g M d lu li t h a t e v e n t u a ll y
le d h e r t o b e s u s p e n d e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I f – if I m a y C h a ir.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I n t h e a c t u a l ti m e li n e t o th e r e p o r t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : S o r r y.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

In t h e t i m e l i n e t o t h e M o k g o r o

Report.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

Page 218 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : At page 364.
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : R e f e r e n c e i s m a d e th e r e th a t :
“ O n 2 6 A p r i l 2 0 1 2 Mr w e b i w r i te s t o B r e y t e n b a c h
a d v is i n g t h a t t h e N PA s h o u ld n o l o n g e r b e i n v o l v e d
in t h e M d lu li m a t t e r a n d t h a t I G I is t h e a p p r o p r ia t e
e n t i ty t o d e a l w i t h t h e m a t t e r.

F o u r d a y s l a te r o n

2 0 A p r il 2 0 1 2 B r e y te n b a c h is i n f o r m e d t h a t s h e i s
s u s p e n d e d b y J i b a .”
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : H m , o k a y. A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h e o th e r
date.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a t y o u m a y fi n d .
CHAIRPERSON:

But it does not say what she was suspended for or

d o e s i t?
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : U n f o r t u n a te ly n o t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , o k a y.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : The other date.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
20

A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : T h a t w a s a ll u d e d t o e a r li e r in r e l a t io n
t o t h e l e t t e r b y M d lu li t o t h e f o r m e r P r e s i d e n t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : A t – i n t h e t i m e l in e a t p a g e 3 5 5 .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : I t is r e c o r d e d :

Page 219 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
“On

3 N o v e m b e r 2 0 11

President,

M i n is t e r

M d lu li

and

writes

P o l ic e

to

the

C o m m is s i o n e r

in d i c a t e d th a t t h e c h a r g e s a g a in s t h i m a r e f a ls e a n d
b a s e d o n a c o n s p ir a c y.
w i ll

help

the

H e a ls o i n d ic a te s th a t h e

P r e s id e n t

be

successful

in

the

f o ll o w i n g y e a r ’s e l e c ti o n s .”
CHAIRPERSON :

A n d th e f o ll o w i n g y e a r ’s e l e c t io n w e r e n o t g e n e r a l

e l e c ti o n s in t h e c o u n t r y. I t w a s e le c t i o n s o f th e p a r ty. Is th a t r i g h t?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s .
10

A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O f t h e p a r ty ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : In 2 0 1 2 .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. Ye s , o k a y.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
Breytenbach

was

acquitted

that

s t il l

did

C h a ir

not

deter

then

once
Mr

–

A d v o c a t e S h a u n A b r a h a ms .
20

CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

To p r o s e c u t e h e r o n

spurious charges.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And the person who

t h e n a p p e a r s o n th e s c e n e is a n A d v o c a t e R a y m o n d M a t h e n j w a .

Page 220 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Who prosecuted her

o n t h e s e s p u r io u s c h a r g e s .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir t h is – t h e s a m e
R a y m o n d M a t h e n j w a – A d v o c a te M a t h e n j w a I m e n t i o n i t l a te r o n a n d I
fi n d

it

s tr a n g e

th a t

when

Advocate Abrahams

reauthorised

my

prosecution on the Monday he appeared in the – in the court here
s o m e w h e r e in J o h a n n e s b u r g .
10

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I do not know where

B r e y t e n b a c h a p p e a r e d a s th e p r o s e c u t o r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And that very same

Fr id a y h e is in D u r b a n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h , ja . I t h in k y o u m e n ti o n e d s o m e ti m e a g o .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . T h a n k y o u .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

At paragraph 93 you deal with

A d v o c a t e J i b a ’s r o le i n p r o s e c u t in g y o u f o r r a c k e te e r in g b u t y o u h a v e
c e r t a i n l y d e a l t w i t h t h a t in e x t e n s i v e d e t a il e a r li e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

A t p a g e 2 9 w h ic h is p a r a g r a p h 9 4

y o u d e a l w i th a d d it i o n a l in v o lv e m e n t o f J ib a i n p r o c e s s e s .

Page 221 of 258

Can you

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
p l e a s e d e a l w i t h t h a t p a r t?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir

o b v i o u s ly

t h r o u g h th e n a tu r e o f t h e w o r k th a t I d o a n d h a v i n g k n o w n a n u m b e r o f
prosecutors I engaged with them and I spoke t o a number of them.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d t h e f e e d b a c k th a t
I w o u ld g e t fr o m t h e p r o s e c u to r s w a s t h a t t h e N a ti o n a l P r o s e c u t in g
O ff ic e i n P r e to r i a w a s l ik e a b a tt l e g r o u n d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e r e w e r e – th e r e

w e r e t w o f a c ti o n s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Those who wanted to

prosecute.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I n d e p e n d e n t ly w i t h o u t
f e a r o r f a v o u r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : And then there – there
20

w a s w h a t – a n d I h a v e w r i tt e n a c o u p l e o f a r tic l e s a b o u t w h i c h I w o u ld
r e fe r t o – t o th e c a b a l .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
Advocate Nxasana was appointed.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.

Page 222 of 258

When

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

It was clear

from

m e d i a r e p o r t s t h a t b o th A d v o c a t e s J ib a a n d M r w e b i h a d b e c o m e
e x tr e m e l y r e c a lc i tr a n t w i t h r e g a r d s t o A d v o c a te N x a s a n a .

H e a c t u a lly

m u c h la t e r w h e n I e v e n t u a l ly m e t h i m c o n fi r me d th a t to m e in p e r s o n .
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d t o th a t e x t e n t h e

in v i te d a r e tir e d C o n s ti t u ti o n a l C o u r t J u d g e Mr J a k o b – J u s ti c e J a k o b –
t o tr y a n d e s t a b l is h w h a t w a s g o in g o n a t t h e N PA .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
10

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d i t e m e r g e d d u r in g
h is a t te m p t – d u r i n g t h a t i n q u ir y t h a t b o t h Mr w e b i a n d J i b a h a d b e e n
e x tr e m e l y r e c a lc i tr a n t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

To th e e x t e n t t h a t I

t h i n k i n th e e n d h e r e c o m m e n d e d a J u d ic i a l C o m m i s s i o n e r o f In q u ir y.
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Chair a number of

d is p a r a g i n g r e m a r k s h a d b e e n m a d e a g a i n s t A d v o c a t e J i b a . I th in k a ll
t h a t c a m e o u t in t h e J u s t ic e M o k g o r o I n q u i r y.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o I w il l n o t d e a l w i t h
t h a t n o w.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir t h e n I c o n c l u d e

t h e s e c t io n w i t h A d v o c a t e J ib a th a t s h e h a d b e e n s u s p e n d e d . T h a t

Page 223 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h e r e w a s t h e i n q u ir y b u t t h e e v e n t s h a v e o v e r ta k e n m y t e s t i m o n y.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S o w e n o w k n o w th a t

t h e s t a te
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e S t a t e P r e s i d e n t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

H a s – h a s d is m is s e d

h e r.
10

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir th e n I w i ll m o v e
o n t o A d v o c a t e S e ll o M a e m a .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

B e fo r e

we

move

o n to

A d v o c a t e S e l lo M a e m a I j u s t w is h to a l e r t y o u C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a t m e n t io n h a s b e e n m a d e o f th e

J u s t ic e J a k o b F a c t Fi n d i n g C o m m i s s i o n i n t h e M o k g o r o R e p o r t a s w e l l.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : At page 317.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , o k a y.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
A d v o c a t e M a e m a t h e f ir s t ti m e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.

Page 224 of 258

When

I

met

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

H e l o o k s li k e a w is e

o l d m a n . H e is s t a r ti n g t o g e t a b i t g r e y a n d h e is lik e a g e n t l e m a n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d in t h e b e g in n i n g I
t h o u g h t – my v i e w o f h i m w a s th a t h e i s a w i s e o l d m a n .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B u t i t e m e r g e d l a te r t o
m e t h a t h e e i t h e r w a s n o t w i s e o r h e h a d b e e n – b e e n c a p tu r e d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : Because invariably he
s e e m s t o b e a n d I d e s c r i b e h i m a s th e “ g o f o r p e r s o n ” .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Whenever there is a

p r o b le m w i t h c e r t a i n p r o s e c u ti o n s a n d I h i g h l ig h t s o m e o f t h o s e
prosecutions.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : C h a ir.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I h a v e r e fe r r e d e a r li e r
o n C h a i r t o t h e s ta t e m e n t t h a t h e m a d e in t h e c r i m i n a l i n v e s ti g a t i o n
20

a g a in s t J i b a in w h i c h h e li e d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Under oath to say a

w i t n e s s h a d b e e n k i ll e d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

C h a ir if I m a y i t h a s j u s t b e e n

Page 225 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
p o i n t e d o u t t o m e t h a t a g a in i n th is M o k g o r o R e p o r t a t p a r a g r a p h 2 5 3
p a g e 8 5 i t is r e c o r d e d th a t B r e y te n b a c h w a s i n v o l v e d in t h e p r o s e c u ti o n
of Mdluli to answer the question.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : As y o u h a v e r a is e d e a r li e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : N o I th in k t h a t – t h a t w a s .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : Ye s .
CHAIRPERSON :

M a d e c le a r b u t I w a s n o t s u r e a b o u t w h e t h e r th e r e

w a s a n y t h i n g i n t h e l e t t e r o f s u s p e n s i o n t h a t in d i c a t e d w h e t h e r t h e
10

s u s p e n s i o n w a s li n k e d t o h e r h a n d l i n g o f t h e M d lu li m a t te r b u t y o u m a y
h a v e r e a d s o m e t h i n g t h a t s u g g e s te d t h a t t h a t w a s t h e c a s e . I c a n n o t
r e m e m b e r b u t I a m s u r e y o u w i ll – y o u w i ll c h e c k .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : No problem.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
covered

paragraph

101

with

regards

to

C h a i r I h a v e a lr e a d y

the

fa b r ic a ti o n s

in

the

prosecution memorandum by Advocate Maema.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

To p r o s e c u t e m y s e l f

a n d m e m b e r s o f C a t o M a n o r.
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
t h e o mi s s io n s a n d t h e m i s r e p r e s e n ta t io n s .

W e ll t h e f a b r ic a ti o n s ,
I am also aware that

M r J o h a n Va n L o g g e n b e r g o n e o f th e a c c u s e d in t h e s o c a ll e d S A R S
m a t t e r.

Page 226 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

H a d a ls o lo g g e d a

c o m p la i n t a g a in s t A d v o c a t e M a e m a .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Ac c o r d in g

to

th e

a d v o c a t e fo r Va n L o g g e n b e r g h e a l s o li e d u n d e r o a t h i n a n a p p l ic a t i o n
w h ic h Mr Va n L o g g e n b e r g h a d b r o u g h t i n t h e G a u te n g H ig h C o u r t .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

C a n y o u ju s t p l e a s e c l a r i fy w h o d o

y o u s a y l ie d u n d e r o a t h ?
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

According

to

M r J o h a n Va n L o g g e n b e r g fr o m S A R S w h o h a s a ls o b e e n p r o s e c u te d –
h e f il e d a c o m p l a in t w i t h A d v o c a t e A b r a h a m s a g a i n s t A d v o c a t e M a e m a
and

A d v o c a t e M z i n y a th i

in

w h ic h

he

accuses

–

that

is

where

Va n L o g g e n b e r g a c c u s e d M a e m a a ls o o f l y in g u n d e r o a th .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I

have

not

in d e p e n d e n tly v e r i fi e d t h a t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

a ls o

gets

in v o lv e d

w it h

th e

so

called

A n d th e n C h a ir h e

R e n d i t io n

case

against

M r Mc B r i d e .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

For

a p p a r e n t ly

u p d a ti n g t h e r e p o r t . N o w C h a ir t h a t c a s e w e n t t o c o u r t a n d e v e n t u a ll y
it w a s w i th d r a w n .

Page 227 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : At paragraph 105 you talk about the
s u s p e n s i o n s o f Mr R o b e r t M c Br id e , G e n e r a l D r a m a t a n d y o u r s e l f w e r e
h e l d to b e u n la w f u l in c o u r t w h il s t th e o t h e r s d i d n o t c h a l le n g e th e ir
s u s p e n s i o n s a n d it w a s c o n s e q u e n t to t h e s e p e r s e c u ti o n s v a r io u s
Hawks

and

SARS

i n v e s ti g a ti o n s

were

c o m p r o m is e d .

Which

in v e s t i g a t io n s a r e y o u s p e c if ic a l ly r e fe r r i n g t o i n y o u r v i e w ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Well Chair I have

a lr e a d y g iv e n e v i d e n c e th a t i n m y a b s e n c e o f t w o y e a r s t h a t t h e P a n d a y
10

in v e s t i g a t io n s h a d b e c o m e d o r m a n t .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W i th r e g a r d s t o th e

S A R S i n v e s ti g a ti o n s – C h a ir w h a t h a p p e n e d is I w a s o b l iv io u s to th e
in v e s t i g a t io n S A R S w a s b u s y w i th . I w a s i n v i t e d t o t h e N e ls o n M a n d e l a
F o u n d a t i o n b y a j o u r n a lis t t o a t t e n d to a m e e ti n g a n d w h e n I a s k e d h e r
w h a t t h e m e e ti n g w a s a b o u t s h e s e n t m e a t e x t m e s s a g e a n d t h e
in v i ta t io n b a s ic a l ly r e a d o n ly i f y o u a r e i n v i t e d y o u c a n c o m e to th is
m e e ti n g . S o I s a i d t o h e r w e ll I a m n o t i n v i t e d . S h e s a id n o b u t y o u
a r e o n e o f th e s u b je c t s o f d is c u s s i o n a n d I s a id I w o u l d g e t y o u t h e r e .
20

S o I a r r iv e d th e r e .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d a s I w a lk in I s a w
M r Mc B r i d e t h e r e . S o I t h o u g h t a t le a s t t h e r e i s s o m e o n e w h o I k n o w
here.
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h i s is n o w a t t h e N e l s o n M a n d e la F o u n d a ti o n ?

Page 228 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O ffi c e s ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : In Sandton.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, a lr ig h t a n d y o u s a id y o u g o t t h e in v i t a t i o n fr o m
who?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : F r o m a jo u r n a l is t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Fr o m a j o u r n a l is t ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, y e s .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And Chair when I

w a lk e d i n w e a ll r e c o g n is e d e a c h o t h e r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

But we have never

m e t b e f o r e . W e r e c o g n is e d e a c h o th e r fr o m – fr o m m e d i a a r t ic l e s a n d
photographs.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
J o h a n Va n L o g g e n b e r g , I v a n P il l a y.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A ll

the

usual

s u s p e c ts .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W e r e a ll th e r e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 229 of 258

And then we – it was

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h e U n iv e r s i ty o f t h e W i t w a t e r s r a n d c o n j u n c ti o n w it h v a r io u s o th e r
u n iv e r s i ti e s . T h e y w e r e d o in g a n i n v e s t i g a ti o n i n to s t a te c a p t u r e .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And

there

is

a

P r o f e s s o r – I t h i n k L i p k i n o r s o m e t h i n g . H e w a s le a d i n g t h e d is c u s s i o n .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

But

d u r in g

th e

d is c u s s io n e a c h o n e o f u s h a d t o g iv e – m a k e a s m a l l p r e s e n ta t io n .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
10

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W h e r e w e fi t in t o t h is .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

In t o t h i s s t o r y a n d

t h e n a f t e r t h a t w e d e c id e d a m o n g s t o u r s e lv e s t o h a v e a s e p a r a t e
m e e ti n g .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d t h e n to b r i n g a l l

o u r n o te s w i th u s .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d it is a t t h a t p o i n t
20

w h e r e a s m y s e l f , Va n L o g g e n b e r g , P i ll a y a n d c o m p a n y w e r e t a lk i n g a n d
G e n e r a l D r a m a t a ls o e v e n t u a l ly j o i n e d u s i n t h e m e e t i n g .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
fir s t o n e a n d h e s e n t h is b r o th e r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.

Page 230 of 258

H e d i d n o t a t t e n d th e

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

It b e c a m e c l e a r a t

t h a t p o i n t th a t w e w e r e d o in g c r i m i n a l in v e s ti g a ti o n s a n d s i m u lt a n e o u s
t o t h a t S A R S w a s d o i n g S A R S i n v e s ti g a ti o n s a g a i n s t a n u m b e r o f
in d i v i d u a ls .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th a t w e w e r e a ls o

in v e s t i g a t in g .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

A n d t h a t is w h y I

a l w a y s m a i n t a in t h a t t h e t h r e e – t h e C a to M a n o r s t o r y, th e C a t o M a n o r
D e a t h S q u a d s t o r y, th e S A R S R o g u e s t o r y a n d th e s o c a ll e d R e n d it i o n
s t o r y.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e y a r e in e x tr ic a b ly

li n k e d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

At

page

106

you

t a lk

about

C h a ir.

He

A d v o c a t e M a e m a ’s i n v o lv e m e n t i n th e Br e t t K e b b le m a t t e r.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

Ye s

p u b lic a lly t o o k r e s p o n s ib il i ty i n th e m e d i a f o r c h a n g i n g t h e p r o s e c u t o r s .
A t t h e ti m e w h i c h w a s I t h in k G e r r i e N e l a n d A n d r e a J o h n s o n w h o is
s t il l w i th t h e N a ti o n a l P r o s e c u t in g A u t h o r i ty a n d n o t s u r p r i s i n g ly
M r K e b b l e w a s e v e n t u a ll y a c q u i t t e d .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 231 of 258

H e w a s a ls o i n v o l v e d

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
w i t h t h e c h a r g e s a g a in s t M r ( i n d i s t i n c t) w h o w a s a s e n io r p o l ic e o ff i c e r
w h o w a s c h a r g e d f o r d e f e a t in g th e e n d s o f ju s t ic e a f t e r h e a l l e g e d ly
in t e r fe r e d w i th th e w i tn e s s M r A g li o t ti . I u n d e r s t a n d t h a t m a t te r d i d n o t
p r o c e e d e i t h e r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d th e n I c o n c l u d e

C h a ir b y s a y i n g :
“ I t c a n b e n o c o i n c id e n c e t h a t A d v o c a t e M a e m a … ”
H a v i n g b e e n fr o m M m a b a t h o I t h i n k :
10

“ …g e ts r o p e d i n … ”
To u s e t h e ir o w n p h r a s e o lo g y :
“ …g e ts r o p e d i n , i n th e p r o s e c u t i o n o f B o o y s e n ,
D r a m a t a n d th e l ik e s o f t h a t I h a v e n o w d e t a i l e d
h e r e .”
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And in the process –

in li ti g a ti o n h e h a s p e r j u r e d h i m s e l f o n m o r e th a n o n e o c c a s io n . I h a v e
o p e n e d c r i m in a l c a s e s a g a i n s t h i m a n d h e is – h e a c t iv e l y a t te m p t e d t o
defend Advocate Jiba.
20

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir i f I c o u l d m o v e

o n t o A d v o c a t e A n th o n y M o s in g ?
C H A I R P E R S O N : M o s in g y e s .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

J u s t i n l i n e w i t h th e s li d e th a t w e

h a v e b e f o r e u s A d v o c a t e M a e m a w a s i n v o lv e d i n t h e C a to M a n o r

Page 232 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
in v e s t i g a t io n o n ly i n r e l a ti o n t o t h o s e fo u r in v e s t i g a t io n s a t l e a s t ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th a t i s r i g h t C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Yo u

please

proceed

then

to

Advocate Anthony Mosing.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir I ju s t w a n t t o

a d d o n e t h i n g a b o u t M a e m a . I t is m y u n d e r s t a n d in g th a t n o n e o f t h e s e
p r o s e c u t o r s i n c l u d i n g h i m – I s e e J u s ti c e M o k g o r o a d d r e s s e s t h a t .
10

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : I h a v e n o t g o n e i n to –
in t o th e d e ta i l b u t th e r e h a v e b e e n s u g g e s t io n s f r o m o t h e r p r o s e c u to r s
t h a t th e ir a p p o i n t m e n t s t o p r o s e c u t e i n K Z N w a s ir r e g u la r.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And Maema was one

of them.
C H A I R P E R S O N : H m , o k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir

A d v o c a t e A n t h o n y M o s i n g – h i s n a m e s t a r te d to f e a t u r e w i th t h e
20

w i t h d r a w a l o f c h a r g e s a g a i n s t M ik e M a b u y a k h u l u a n d P e g g y N k o n y e n i.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

At

the

ti m e

the

in v e s t i g a t in g o ffi c e r - C o l o n e l P ie t D u P l o o y – w i th f o r e n s ic a u d i to r – I
t h i n k i t w a s M r Tr e v o r W h it e .

I c a n n o t r e c a l l w a s s u m m o n e d t o th e

o ffic e b y – b y A d v o c a t e M o s i n g a n d t h e r e t h e y i n d ic a t e d t o – t o

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
D u P l o o y t h a t t h e c a s e i s n o t v e r y s tr o n g a n d I r e c a ll D u P lo o y a t t h e
ti m e r e p o r t e d t o m e th a t t h e y w e r e s u m m o n e d t o P r e t o r ia a n d i t w a s
c le a r t o t h e m t h a t t h e y a lr e a d y h a d m a d e u p t h e ir mi n d . H e s a id to m e
a t t h e ti m e a t t h e c o n c l u s i o n o f t h e m e e t i n g h e b a s ic a lly s a i d th e m h e
d o e s n o t s e e th e n e e d fo r t h i s m e e ti n g b e c a u s e i t l o o k s l ik e t h e y – t h e y
a r e n o t g o i n g t o p r o c e e d i n a n y e v e n t.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S o I t h i n k th a t is

w h e r e th e s t a g e w a s s e t .
10

CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
r o l li n g

fo r

th e

eventual

w it h d r a w a l

of

The
th e

b a ll

s ta r te d

cha rges

against

M ik e M a b u y a k h u lu a n d P e g g y N k o n y e n i .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B y A d v o c a te N o k o .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: In KZN.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : If we could then move to page 34 of
your
20

a ff id a v i t

and

paragraph

11 0

at

w h ic h

you

deal

w it h

Advocate Moipone Noko?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a i r I t h in k I h a v e

a lr e a d y a ll u d e d to t h a t .
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

In

my

view

at

A d v o c a t e N o k o w a s a p p o i n t e d a n d a t l e a s t o n e o f th e p o i n ts h a s b e e n

Page 234 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
c o n fir m e d

by

removed

and

J u s t ic e M o k g o r o
r e p la c e d

to

by

–

w e l l A d v o c a te M l o ts h w a

Advocate Noko

to

do

was
what

A d v o c a t e Si m p h iw e M l o ts h w a r e fu s e d to d o a n d t h a t is t o .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOY SEN: Sanction.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e a p p li c a t i o n fo r –

f o r r a c k e te e r in g c h a r g e s a g a i n s t my s e l f a n d C a t o M a n o r.
CHAIRPERSON : Huh-uh.
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN: Hm.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

And

th is

was

the

same

A d v o c a t e N o k o w h o w a s th e n a p p o i n te d a n d w h o r e f u s e d t o w i t h d r a w
t h e r a c k e t e e r i n g – a p o l o g i e s – w h o f a c il it a t e d t h e w i th d r a w a l o f t h e
c o r r u p ti o n c h a r g e s a g a i n s t To s h a n P a n d a y ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
Advocate Noko

w i th d r e w

the

charges

S h e w it h d r e w t h e –

a g a in s t To s h a n P a n d a y

and

Navin Madhoe.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Okay

and

who

appointed

Advocate Noko?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir

my

u n d e r s t a n d in g is th a t th o s e a p p o i n t m e n ts a r e d o n e b y t h e S t a t e
P r e s i d e n t b u t t h e S t a t e Pr e s i d e n t w o u ld n o t j u s t o u t o f t h e b l u e a p p o i n t
a person.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN : They must – I suspect

Page 235 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
it .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Came as – after a

r e c o m m e n d a ti o n b y A d v o c a te J i b a .
C H A I R P E R S O N : H m . Ye s I – i t w o u ld b e i m p o r t a n t t o c h e c k w h e t h e r i t
is t h e Pr e s i d e n t w h o m a k e s t h e a p p o i n t m e n t o r t h e N D P P b u t I t h o u g h t
maybe you can check overnight.
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : W il l d o C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
10

A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : O k a y.
CHAIRPERSON:

I n c l u d i n g a c ti n g a p p o in t m e n ts i n r e g a r d to s u c h

p o s i ti o n s a s D P P. T h e N D P P o n e I a m s u r e is m a d e b y th e Pr e s id e n t
b u t t h e D P P o n e I a m n o t s u r e . S o y o u m i g h t c h e c k u p o n th a t .
A D V V E R U S C H K A S E P T E M B E R : W il l d o C h a ir.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a i r t h e th r e e m a i n

p o i n t s I a m m a k i n g w i th r e g a r d s t o A d v o c a t e N o k o .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

She was put there as

a p r o x y.
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S h e h a d t o f a c il i ta t e

t h e w i th d r a w a l o f c h a r g e s a g a i n s t P a n d a y a n d M a d h o e w h ic h e v e n tu a lly
happened.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 236 of 258

S h e h a d to w i t h d r a w

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
t h e c h a r g e s a g a i n s t M a b u y a k h u lu a n d N k o n y e n i .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

W h ic h s h e e v e n t u a l ly

did.
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d th e n s h e a ls o d i d
w h a t S i m p h i w e M l o ts h w a r e f u s e d t o d o .
CHAIRPERSON : Hm.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
10

And

that

is

to

r e c o m m e n d m y a n d C a to M a n o r ’s p r o s e c u ti o n .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Do you know (background noise)

w h o s e p r o x y d i d A d v o c a t e N o k o a c t a c c o r d in g to y o u r s u b mi s s io n n o w ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

It would have been

A d v o c a t e J i b a b e c a u s e A d v o c a t e J i b a is t h e o n e w h o w a n t e d A d v o c a t e
M l o ts h w a to s i g n o u r – m y p r o s e c u t io n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e r e c o m m e n d a ti o n f o r y o u r p r o s e c u t io n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t ’s r i g h t C h a ir.

CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPT EMBER : Thank you.
20

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d th e n a y e a r l a t e r
A d v o c a t e N o k o w a s a p p o i n te d p e r m a n e n t ly a s t h e D P P b y t h e S t a t e
President.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d t h e n I ’v e a lr e a d y

t e s ti fi e d w i t h r e g a r d s t o N o k o ’s r o le w it h A d v o c a t e M a h e m a i n t h e

Page 237 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m is r e p r e s e n t a ti o n s

and

the

falsehoods

and

the

p r o s e c u ti o n

m e m o r a n d u m a n d t h e P o w e r p o i n t p r e s e n t a ti o n t o h a v e u s p r o s e c u t e d .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

And

in

p a r ti c u la r t h e c r i m i n a l

c o m p la i n t t h a t s h e l a i d p u r s u a n t t o th a t ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t’s c o r r e c t C h a ir.

I’ v e d e t a il e d t h o s e i n m y a ffi d a v i t w h ic h i s a tt a c h e d t o m y s t a t e m e n t .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Ye s .

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir i n t h e r e c e n t

in t e r v ie w s t h a t w e r e t e le v is e d w h e n t h e – f o r t h e a p p o in t m e n t o f a n e w
10

N D P P A d v o c a t e N o k o w a s o n e o f th e s h o r tl is te d a d v o c a t e s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And

one

of

th e

p a n e l li s t s a s k e d h e r a b o u t t h e B o o y s e n m a t t e r a n d h e r r e s p o n s e w a s
t h a t s h e h a d fo u n d i t o n t h e c o u r t r o l l w h e n s h e g o t th e r e , a l m o s t
a b s o lv in g h e r s e l f o f a n y i n v o lv e m e n t a n d w h e n I w a t c h e d i t I s a i d t o
m y s e l f h o w c a n a p e r s o n w h o k n o w s t h is is b e in g b r o a d c a s t n a ti o n a lly
s i t a n d l i e t o a p a n e l li k e t h a t .

S h e h a d s ig n e d b o t h th e c o v e r i n g

le t t e r s fo r m y a n d C a t o M a n o r ’s p r o s e c u ti o n s o s h e – I t h in k s h e m is l e d
t h e p a n e l t h e r e b y s a y i n g t o t h e p a n e l s h e fo u n d t h e t h in g th e r e o n t h e
20

c o u r t r o ll .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , b e c a u s e i t c a n o n l y b e o n t h e c o u r t r o ll if t h e r e
h a s b e e n a n a u t h o r is a ti o n o f th e i n s ti t u ti o n o f p r o s e c u ti o n a n d y o u s a y
t h a t s h e r e c o m m e n d e d th e a u t h o r is a ti o n o f p r o s e c u t io n .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir t h e o b j e c ti v e is

t h a t s h e s ig n e d b o th t h o s e c o v e r i n g l e t te r s a n d t h e n s h e te ll s t h e p a n e l

Page 238 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
s h e f o u n d t h e t h i n g t h e r e w h e n s h e . . .( in t e r v e n ti o n )
C H A I R P E R S O N : S o y o u s a y w h a t s h e s a i d i s c o n tr a d i c t e d b y o b je c tiv e
f a c ts ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Ye s C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , t h a n k y o u .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Page

36

you

then

deal

w it h

A d v o c a t e D o c t o r To r i e Pr e t o r i u s , w il l y o u p l e a s e a d d r e s s t h e C h a ir i n
r e l a ti o n t o y o u r o b s e r v a ti o n s o f t h e m a t t e r s t h a t Pr e t o r i u s w a s i n v o l v e d
in .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : L e t ’s g o b a c k to t h e la s t p o in t w e w e r e m a k i n g a b o u t
A d v o c a t e N o k o , s o d u r i n g h e r i n te r v i e w w h e n s h e w a s a c a n d i d a t e fo r
t h e p o s i ti o n o f N D P P r e c e n t ly s h e w a s a s k e d a b o u t t h e m a t te r r e l a ti n g
t o y o u b y o n e o f th e p a n e ll is ts a n d s h e s a i d w h e n s h e b e c a m e a c t i n g
D P P t h e m a t te r w a s a lr e a d y o n th e r o l l.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I t h i n k th e w o r d s s h e

u s e d C h a ir i s s h e f o u n d i t o n th e c o u r t r o ll .
C H A I R P E R S O N : S h e f o u n d i t o n t h e c o u r t r o l l.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Ye s C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON :
20

J a , a n d t h a t w a s th e e n d o f th a t l in e o f q u e s ti o n i n g ?

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
CHAIRPERSON :

T h a t ’s c o r r e c t C h a ir.

Ye s , s o y o u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g i s i n t h a t w a y s h e w a s

m a k i n g s u r e s h e w o u l d n o t b e a s k e d a b o u t a n y d e c is io n s s h e t o o k t o
recommend?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Th a t

was

my

in t e r p r e t a ti o n o f w h a t s h e w a s s a y i n g , t h a t s h e d id n o t w a n t t o g o t h e r e

Page 239 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
b e c a u s e I t h in k t h a t p o s s i b ly w o u l d h a v e l e d t o o t h e r q u e s t io n s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a n k y o u C h a ir, a t p a r a g r a p h 3 6

y o u t a lk to A d v o c a te P r e t o r iu s , D r To r i e Pr e to r i u s .
CHAIRPERSON :

I t h i n k it w o u ld b e i m p o r t a n t t o g e t a c o p y o f t h e

tr a n s c r ip t o f h e r i n te r v i e w i f w e d o n ’ t a lr e a d y h a v e i t h e r e s o th a t w e
c a n h a v e a l o o k a t w h a t e v e r m a y b e r e le v a n t t h a t tr a n s p ir e d d u r i n g h e r
in t e r v ie w,

i n c lu d i n g

th e

point

th a t

M a jo r

General

Booysen

is

m e n ti o n i n g .
10

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

A n d t h a t ’s s p e c i fic a l ly, t o m a k e s u r e

I u n d e r s t a n d t h is , t h a t ’s s p e c i fic a l ly t h e t r a n s c r i p t o f th e in t e r v ie w o f
Advocate Noko?
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s o f A d v o c a t e N o k o , s h e is t h e o n l y o n e , b e c a u s e

M a jo r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n is s a y in g s h e w a s a s k e d a b o u t t h e m a t t e r
r e l a ti n g t o h i m a n d s h e s a i d s h e f o u n d t h e m a t t e r a lr e a d y o n t h e c o u r t
r o l l a n d M a j o r G e n e r a l B o o y s e n s a y s t h a t ’s f a l s e , t h e r e a r e o b je c tiv e
f a c ts w h ic h s h o w th a t i t w a s n o t o n t h e c o u r t r o ll w h e n s h e c a m e , a n d
s h e is t h e o n e w h o d id t h e r e c o m m e n d a ti o n , s o i t w o u l d b e g o o d to fi n d
o u t e x a c tl y w h a t t h e tr a n s c r i p t r e f le c ts .
20

ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h a n k y o u C h a ir.

CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir w i t h r e g a r d s t o

A d v o c a t e To r ie P r e t o r i u s I d e s c r i b e d h i m a s a li g h t n i n g c o n d u c t o r i n m y
s t a te m e n t .

W e h a v e t h e s e p r o s e c u to r s lik e M a h e m a a n d N o k o a n d

M o s i n g a n d a f e w o th e r s t h a t a r e i n th e c o a l f a c e i n t h e c o u r t s b u t in t h e

Page 240 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
b a c k g r o u n d y o u h a v e A d v o c a t e To r i e Pr e to r i u s g iv i n g l e g a l o p i n i o n s
a n d i n v a r i a b l y th o s e o p i n io n s a r e a g a i n s t t h e l ik e s o f m y s e l f, Pr a v i n
G o r d h a n e t c e t e r a . B o th h i m a n d a n d A d v o c a te M u s s e n j a te a n d I t h i n k
t h a t is A d v o c a te A b r a h a m s a s w e l l , w e l l it w a s A d v o c a t e Pr e to r i u s ,
M u s s e n ja t e a n d A b r a h a m s t h e y r e c e iv e d n o tic e s o f i n te n ti o n t o s u s p e n d
t h e m b y t h e th e n P r e s i d e n t f o r t h e ir r o l e i n t h e a b o r t e d M i n i s te r P r a v i n
G o r d h a n m a t t e r. Th e y w e r e e v e n t u a l ly n o t s u s p e n d e d b u t I t h i n k it w il l
b e i n t e r e s ti n g to k n o w w h a t is w r i t te n i n t h e ir p r e s e n t a t i o n s b e c a u s e
t h a t m i g h t in d ic a t e w h e r e t h e d e c is i o n to p r o s e c u t e M r Pr a v i n G o r d h a n
10

w e r e p o li ti c a ll y m o t iv a t e d o r n o t , b u t b e t h a t a s it m a y C h a i r t h e fa c t
t h a t M r To r i e P r e t o r iu s h a d in v o lv e d h i ms e l f i n a l ig n i n g w i t h t h e
p r o s e c u t i o n o f M r P r a v i n G o r d h a n a n d w e n o w k n o w w h ic h h a d
c a t a s tr o p h i c e ff e c ts o n t h e e c o n o m y o f t h e c o u n t r y a n d a s I p r e v io u s ly
a l lu d e d t o t h e f a c t th a t t h e P C L U o f w h ic h h e is a m e m b e r t h e s e
in v e s t i g a t io n s d o n o t f a ll i n to t h e r e m i t o f t h e P C L U , b u t h e c o n s t a n t ly
s e e m s t o g e t h i m s e l f i n v o lv e d o r e i th e r b y d e fa u lt o r b y d e s i g n a n d h e
a ls o g a v e a le g a l o p i n i o n i n th e C a t o M a n o r m a t te r w h e n w e b r o u g h t a n
a p p lic a ti o n to h a v e th e m a t t e r s tr u c k o f f th e r o l l , w h e n h e a l ig n e d
h i m s e l f w i t h t h e p r o s e c u t o r s , M a h e m a a t th e t i m e .

20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

T h e n e x t p r o s e c u to r t h a t y o u t h e n ,

the next advocate that you deal with is on page 37, and that is
A d v o c a t e R a y m o n d M a te n jw a .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir

Advocate

R a y m o n d M a t e n jw a w a s t h e i n i t ia l p r o s e c u to r w h e n t h e fi r s t b a t c h o f

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
Cato Manor members were arrested. I wasn’t present at court, I had a
c o m m i t m e n t w i t h m e m b e r s f r o m t h e F B I i n th e U S A , i n K Z N b u t o n
v a r i o u s o c c a s i o n s h e o p p o s e d b a il , o n v a r io u s o c c a s i o n s h e h a d t o b e
c a l l e d to o r d e r b y t h e m a g is tr a t e fo r h is a n ti s in c o u r t. H e ’s i n v o lv e d i n
m y i n v e s t ig a ti o n , l ik e I s a i d e a r li e r o n h e w a s a ls o i n v o lv e d in o n e w e e k
g o i n g t o c o u r t f o r G ly n n is B r e y t e n b a c h a n d d u r i n g th e s a m e w e e k a
d i ff e r e n t p r o v i n c e fo r m y m a t t e r.

I h a v e b e e n t o ld b y tw o v e r y s e n i o r

a d v o c a t e s fr o m t h e N a ti o n a l Pr o s e c u ti n g A u th o r it y t h a t th e r e w a s a
le t t e r w h e r e a n u m b e r o f p r o s e c u t o r s h a d b e e n p r o m i s e d p r o m o ti o n b y
10

A d v o c a t e A b r a h a ms , I n e v e r s a w th is le t t e r, b u t t w o in d e p e n d e n t
A d v o c a t e s t o l d m e a b o u t t h is a n d A d v o c a te R a y m o n d M a t e n j w a w a s o n e
o f t h e m th a t w a s g o i n g t o b e a p r o m o t e d t o a p o s t a t N e ls p r u i t w h e r e a
n e w p o s t w a s to b e c r e a t e d .
M y u n d e r s t a n d i n g f r o m t h e s e tw o s e n io r a d v o c a te s fr o m t h e
N a t io n a l P r o s e c u t in g A u t h o r i ty i s t h a t A d v o c a te A b r a h a m s h a d a lr e a d y
d r a f t e d t h e p a p e r s , b u t i t w a s a t th a t ti m e w h e n t h e t h e n S t a t e
P r e s i d e n t w a s u n d e r p r e s s u r e a n d h e r e s ig n e d , s o h e h a d n o t s i g n e d
o ff

on

that,

w h ic h

e v e n t u a l ly

n e g a te d

th e

p r o m o ti o n

of

these

p r o s e c u t o r s o f w h ic h M a te n jw a w a s o n e .
20

CHAIRPERSON :

N o w t h e r e l e v a n c e o f th e p r o m o t io n , o f t h e ir

p r o m o ti o n i s i t t h a t t h e p r o m o ti o n w a s l i n k e d t o t h e w o r k t h e y w e r e
d o i n g i n r e l a ti o n t o th e p r o s e c u ti o n o f p e o p l e lik e y o u , o r i t’s ju s t b e in g
m e n ti o n e d ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir t h e p e o p le th a t

w e r e m e n t io n e d t h e m a j o r i ty o f t h e p e o p l e t h a t w e r e g o i n g t o b e

Page 242 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
p r o m o te d a r e s o m e o f th e p r o s e c u t o r s t h a t I d e a l w i t h i n my s t a t e m e n t .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y. N o w th e p e o p l e fr o m w i t h i n t h e N PA w h o
g a v e y o u t h i s i n fo r m a ti o n d o y o u h a v e a n y i d e a w h e t h e r th e y w o u l d b e
p r e p a r e d t o c o m e a n d g iv e e v i d e n c e a b o u t t h a t to th e e x t e n t th a t i t m a y
b e d e e m e d n e c e s s a r y o r i s t h a t s o m e t h in g y o u d o n ’ t k n o w ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir t h e o n e m ig h t

n o t , th e o th e r o n e m i g h t .
CHAIRPERSON :

O k a y.

A n d y o u w il l g iv e t h e n a m e s t o t h e L e g a l

Te a m ?
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I w i ll C h a ir.

CHAIRPERSON : Thank you.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

A t p a g e 3 8 fr o m p a r a g r a p h 1 to 4

y o u d e a l w i th t h e n e x t A d v o c a te w h o i s A d v o c a te S e a n A b r a h a m s , w h o
a p p o i n t e d A d v o c a te S e a n A b r a h a ms ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a i r i t ’s c o m m o n

c a u s e t h a t h e w a s a p p o in t e d b y t h e S t a t e P r e s i d e n t .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

O k a y. W h o is – w h o p r e c e d e d , w h o

w a s t h e p r e v i o u s i n c u m b e n t t o h is p o s i ti o n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

Th a t w a s A d v o c a t e

M x o li s i N x a n a C h a ir.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

O k a y a n d w h a t w a s A d v o c a t e M x o l is i

N x a n a ’s v i e w in r e la t io n t o t h e w i th d r a w a l o f c r i m in a l c h a r g e s a g a in s t
t h e To s h a n P a n d a y ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
. . .( i n te r v e n t io n )

Page 243 of 258

Chair

o b v i o u s ly

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
CHAIRPERSON : Against who?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

M r To s h a n P a n d a y.

C H A I R P E R S O N : O h , o k a y.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir I d o n ’ t t h i n k h e

h a d a s p e c i f ic v i e w b u t h e fa c i li t a t e d a f te r I d e le t e d m y l e t t e r to h i m h e
f a c i li t a te d p r o s e c u t o r s to r e - e v a l u a te s o i n m y v ie w t h o s e w e r e o n e o f
h is s in s t h a t h e w a s p r e p a r e d to h a v e a ll t h o s e c a s e s t h a t h a d b e c o m e
d o r m a n t t o m a k e t h e m a l iv e a g a i n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h e s e c o n d s in I

think he committed was it was under his stewardship that Advocate
N o m g c o b o J ib a w a s p r o s e c u t e d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

A n d th a t ’s b o r n e o u t

C h a ir b y a n d I r e fe r t o t h a t in p a r a g r a p h 1 2 7 o f m y s ta t e m e n t , I w a s
w a t c h in g th e e v i d e n c e o f A d v o c a t e M o h o fe w h e r e A d v o c a t e M o h o f e
s t a te d . .. ( i n te r v e n t io n )
C H A I R P E R S O N : In t h is C o m m i s s i o n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

T h a t’s c o r r e c t C h a ir.

W h e r e h e s ta t e d t h a t t h e t h e n M in is t e r o f P o lic e , M i n i s t e r N a t h i N h l e k o
in f o r m e d h i m th a t t h e r e is g o i n g t o b e a n a u d ie n c e w i th t h e S t a te
P r e s i d e n t , w h ic h e v e n tu a l ly h a p p e n e d , a n d d u r i n g t h is c o n v e r s a ti o n in
spite of the fact that he had no relevant experience as a prosecutor ,
n e v e r m i n d t o h e a d th e N a ti o n a l P r o s e c u ti n g A u th o r i ty, th a t t h e
P r e s i d e n t w a n t e d h i m t o b e c o m e t h e n e w N D P P, t h a t w a s w h il e

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
A d v o c a t e N k o s a n a w a s th e N D P P a n d w h a t s t r u c k m e o f h is e v i d e n c e
C h a ir a n d th a t c o n v i n c e d m e m o r e th a n a n y t h i n g e ls e t h a t o n e o f t h e
c a r d i n a l s i n s t h a t I a ls o c o m m i t t e d w a s t o b e t h e c o m p la i n a n t in a
m a t t e r a g a i n s t A d v o c a t e J i b a . A c c o r d i n g t o A d v o c a t e M o h o fe t h e S t a t e
P r e s i d e n t w a s n o t h a p p y w i th th e f a c t th a t s h e h a d b e e n p r o s e c u t e d
a n d i n fa c t h e o ff e r e d h i m t o b e c o m e t h e N D P P a n d I t h in k t h e w o r d s
t h a t h e u s e d is th a t h e w o u l d b e th e ( in d is t in c t) N D P P b u t J ib a w a s
g o i n g t o b e th e d e f a u l t .
CHAIRPERSON : The de facto ja.
10
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I t h i n k h e u s e d th e

w o r d d e f a u l t j a , d e f a u l t D P P a s l o n g a s J i b a w a s l e f t a l o n e . C h a ir w i th
r e g a r d s t o A d v o c a t e A b r a h a m s w h e n h e a s s u m e d o ff ic e t w o o f t h e v e r y
fir s t t h i n g s h e d i d w a s to c a l l A d v o c a t e s F e r r e ir a a n d Va n E e d e n
b e c a u s e th e y w e r e t h e p r o s e c u to r s a p p o i n te d b y A d v o c a t e N x a s a n a t o
p r o s e c u t o r A d v o c a t e J ib a , a n d h e w a n t e d a n o p i n io n fr o m t h e m a s t o
the strength of the case. And I am aware of this Chair because those
d o c u m e n ts w e r e a t ta c h e d t o a n o th e r a p p l ic a t io n , I t h i n k i t w a s in t h e
Western Cape.
20

H e p r o c u r e d th a t fr o m t h e tw o A d v o c a t e s h i m s e l f a n d

o n a r e a d i n g o f t h a t C h a ir it ’s b la t a n tly e v id e n t f r o m t h e ir o p i n i o n s t h a t
there is a case to be answered by Advocate Jiba.
T h e o th e r th in g th a t h e d id w a s t o a s k A d v o c a t e G e r r i e N e l
about

the

Panday

u n d e r s t a n d in g

is

matters.
that

That

Advocate

was

Ger rie

in
Nel

2015
had

Chair
made

and

my

c e r ta i n

r e c o m m e n d a ti o n s t h a t a n u m b e r o f p e o p l e in t h o s e in v e s ti g a t io n s a r e

Page 245 of 258

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
prosecuted.
S o th a t w a s th e v e r y fir s t t h i n g h e d i d a n d w e n o w k n o w w h a t ’s
h a p p e n e d t o t h o s e i n v e s ti g a t i o n s , n o n e o f th o s e p e o p l e t o d a t e h a v e
a p p e a r e d i n fr o n t o f a C o u r t a n d w i t h r e g a r d s t o t h e – i t’s t h e fir s t o n e I
w a s m e n t io n in g , w i th r e g a r d s t o th e J ib a m a t te r t h a t e v e n tu a l ly C h a ir
t h e tr ia l w a s s u p p o s e d t o c o m m e n c e I t h i n k i t w a s o n a W e d n e s d a y, a n d
I w a s c o n s u l ti n g w i th th e Pr o s e c u t o r t h e w e e k b e f o r e t h a t a n d w e h a d
t o w o r k fr o m h is fi le s b e c a u s e t h e P r o s e c u to r t o l d m e t h e d o c k e t w a s
w i t h A d v o c a te M o g a t le , M a r s h a l l M o g a t l e I t h in k h is n a m e is .
10

What

la t e r e m e r g e d w a s t h a t F e r r e ir a h a d w r i t te n a n e m a il t o M o g a tl e t o t e l l
h i m li s te n I n e e d m y d o c k e t , I’ m c o n s u l t in g w i th a w i tn e s s , t h e tr ia l is
a b o u t t o c o m m e n c e a n d M o g a tl e ’s r e s p o n s e t o t h a t w a s i n a n e m a i l t h a t
t h e d o c k e t i s w i t h t h e N D P P, o b v i o u s ly M r A b r a h a m s , a n d th a t th e y
s h o u l d h a v e a n a n s w e r b y t h e fo ll o w i n g d a y, w h ic h m a k e s m e t h i n k t h a t
b e c a u s e s u b s e q u e n t to t h e w i t h d r a w a l o f c h a r g e s a g a i n s t J ib a th e y
a n n o u n c e d t h a t t h e c h a r g e s w e r e w i t h d r a w n b y A d v o c a te M o g a t le , b u t I
fir m l y b e li e v e t h a t th e y w e r e a c t u a l ly w it h d r a w n b y A d v o c a t e S e a n
A b r a h a m s a n d t h a t w a s c o n f ir m e d i n a n a p p l ic a t i o n t o t h e H i g h C o u r t, I
c a n n o t r e c a ll w h e t h e r i t w a s F r e e d o m u n d e r th e L a w o r w h e th e r t h a t

20

w a s t h e H e le n S u z m a n F o u n d a t io n , th e r e t h e ju d g e s a ll h e l d , I th i n k i t
w a s a f u ll b e n c h C h a ir, a l l t h e ju d g e s h e l d t h e r e th a t i n s p it e o f th e f a c t
t h a t M o g a t l e a n d M a h e m a d e p o s e d d e p o s e d t o a ffi d a v i t s u n d e r o a th
t h a t it w a s M o g a t l e t h a t w i th d r e w t h e c h a r g e s a n d n o t A b r a h a m s . Th e
C o u r t f o u n d t h a t i t w a s i n d e e d A b r a h a m s w h o w i t h d r e w th e c h a r g e s a n d
n o t M o g a tl e .

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

And

C h a ir

not

s u r p r is i n g l y y o u h a v e a H i g h C o u r t fi n d i n g a g a i n s t A d v o c a t e A b r a h a m s
a n d th e j u d g e s e v e n in th e ir j u d g m e n t s a y s i t r a is e s q u e s ti o n s a b o u t
in t e g r i ty, a n d th e y a l s o m a k e o th e r a d v e r s e r e m a r k s a g a i n s t A d v o c a t e
A b r a h a m s a n d A d v o c a t e M o g a t le a n d I j u s t fi n d i t c u r io u s t h a t u p u n t il
t o d a y, i n s p i t e o f th o s e n e g a t iv e a s p e r s i o n s c a s t b y H ig h C o u r t J u d g e s
a b s o l u t e ly n o th i n g h a s h a p p e n e d t o A d v o c a te M o g a t le a n d A d v o c a t e
A b r a h a m s , n e it h e r f r o m t h e e m p lo y e r a t t h e t i m e w h o w a s t h e N PA a n d
10

n e i th e r f r o m – w e l l th e t h e n G C B a n d I b e li e v e th a t t h e r e ’s a n e w b o d y
n o w.
CHAIRPERSON :

Ja, yes.

Do we have that judgment that General

B o o y s e n is t a l k i n g a b o u t i n th e b u n d l e ?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

N o C h a i r.

C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, i t s h o u l d b e s e c u r e d , w e s h o u l d h a v e t h a t. I s
y o u r r e c o l l e c t i o n t h a t in t h a t m a t t e r A d v o c a t e A b r a h a m s h a d a l s o fi l e d
a n a ffi d a v it ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
CHAIRPERSON :
20

Ye s C h a ir.

A n d w h e t h e r h is a ff id a v i t w a s s a y i n g t h a t i t w a s

A d v o c a t e M o g a tl e w h o m a d e t h e d e c is i o n t o w i th d r a w ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t ’s r i g h t C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t y o u s a y t h r e e ju d g e s r e j e c t e d t h a t v e r s i o n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Ye s C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d s a i d i t w a s h i m w h o m a d e t h e d e c is i o n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Page 247 of 258

Ja,

there

was

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m a jo r i ty a n d a d e s c e n d in g ju d g m e n t b u t a l l th e j u d g e s h e l d t h a t o r
f o u n d th a t i t w a s in f a c t A b r a h a m s w h o w it h d r e w t h e c h a r g e s a n d n o t
Mogatle.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

I n s p it e o f t h e f a c t

t h a t b o t h d e p o s e d t o a ff i d a v i ts i n o p p o s i n g th e a p p l ic a ti o n .
CHAIRPERSON :

Ye s , a n d d o y o u k n o w w h e th e r t h a t m a t t e r is

s o m e w h e r e i n t h e C o u r t s y s te m w i t h a p p e a ls o r n o t o r i s t h a t s o m e t h in g
you don’t know at the moment?
10

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir o b v io u s ly w h a t

h a p p e n e d w it h . . .( i n te r v e n t io n )
CHAIRPERSON :
fi n d i n g s

s ti ll

S o b a s ic a ll y w h a t I a m lo o k in g fo r is w h e th e r th o s e

s ta n d

or

whether

th e y ’r e

subject

to

some

appeal

. . .( i n te r v e n t io n )
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

N o C h a ir, s o r r y C h a ir,

t h e C o u r t h e ld t h a t t h e w i t h d r a w a l o f c h a r g e s b y A b r a h a m s w a s
ir r a t i o n a l .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
20

A n d t o m y m i n d th e

criminal charges should be reinstated.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
that has happened.

B u t to d a t e n o n e o f

I fo u n d o u t th r o u g h t h e J u s tic e M o k g o r o i n q u ir y

w h e n t h e y w e r e p u s h e d f o r a n a n s w e r J i b a ’s c o u n s e l t h e n s a i d to J u d g e
M o k g o r o t h e y ’r e g o i n g t o e s t a b l is h w h a t h a p p e n e d a n d t h e n t h e

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
f o ll o w i n g d a y t h e y h a n d e d i n a l e t t e r fr o m a n – I t h in k h e ’s fr o m ,
Advocate Smit, I can’t remember which

Pr o v in c e

he

w a s fr o m ,

N o r t h w e s t , w h ic h h e s a i d th a t s o o b v i o u s ly A d v o c a t e A b r a h a m s h a d
r e fe r r e d i t t o a n o t h e r A d v o c a t e a g a i n w h o th e n s a i d n o th e r e ’s n o
r e a s o n a b l e c h a n c e o f s u c c e s s f o r p r o s e c u t io n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

In m y v i e w h e d id n o t

h a v e th e a u th o r i ty t o r e v ie w w h a t th e t w o o th e r A d v o c a t e s h a d a lr e a d y
e s t a b li s h e d .
10

CHAIRPERSON :

O k a y, w e n e e d to h a v e t h a t j u d g m e n t a n d i t m a y b e

that depending on when one reads the judg ment, it may or may not be
n e c e s s a r y t o h a v e a lo o k a t o n e o r m o r e o f t h e a ff id a v i ts th a t m a y b e
a ffe c t e d o n t h a t i s s u e .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

M a le fi d e s C h a i r ?

C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , o k a y.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

W e r e y o u in v o lv e d G e n e r a l B o o y s e n

in t h e le g a l p r o c e s s w h ic h l e d t o N o m g c o b o J i b a ’s p r o s e c u t io n ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir I w a s t h e

c o m p la i n a n t .
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d t h e n r e la t e d t o h e r r o l e i n y o u r c a s e ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t’s c o r r e c t C h a ir,

b e c a u s e in t h e G o r v a n m a t t e r s h e a n d I a c c u s e d h e r o f b e i n g
mendacious and she did not respond to that and it was based on that
a n d t h e fi n d i n g s o f t h e C o u r t t h a t I l a y t h e c h a r g e s , a n d I w a s p r iv y to
t h e c h a r g e s h e e t b e c a u s e s h e w a s g o i n g t o b e c h a r g e d f o r p e r ju r y f o r

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
ly i n g u n d e r o a th i n t h a t s t a t e m e n t , in th e li t ig a ti o n p r o c e s s , s h e a ls o
m is r e p r e s e n t e d f a c t s w h i c h c o m p r is e d , w h ic h I w o u l d s a y m a k e s h e r
g u il ty o f fr a u d a n d t h e n a ls o f o r d e f e a t i n g t h e e n d s o f j u s t ic e .
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

I n y o u r v ie w d i d y o u s u ff e r a n y

consequences as a result of laying this complaint against Advocate
J ib a ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir m y v ie w i f –

w h e n I t o o k e a r ly r e tir e m e n t , f iv e m o n t h s e a r ly, n o t th a t I a m r e t ir e d
C h a ir, I a m s ti ll w o r k i n g , C h a ir i n m y v i e w a n d t h a t ’s h o w I fe e l a b o u t i t ,
10

if I j u s t k e p t m y m o u t h s h u t a n d e i th e r t a k e n t h e g o l d e n h a n d s h a k e b y
G e n e r a l P h i y e g a a n d d is a p p e a r e d i n to t h e s u n s e t t h e y w o u l d h a v e
forgotten about Johan Booysen.

The fact that I went back and

r e o p e n e d a l l th e s e c a s e s a n d A d v o c a t e J ib a w a s n o t p r o s e c u t e d I a m
convinced

that

experienced,

that

that
I

p r o m p te d
was

now

the

r e a c ti o n

r e - p r o s e c u te d

that
by

I

e v e n tu a l ly

Advocate

Sean

Abrahams.
C h a ir a l l th e e v id e n c e , o r s h o u l d I s a y t h e l a c k o f e v id e n c e
h a d b e e n v e n ti l a t e d i n fr o n t o f J u d g e G o r v a n a n d h e is v e r y e m p h a t ic i n
h is f in d i n g s .
20

M y a s s e r ti o n s th a t th e w i t n e s s e s th a t t h e y r e fe r r e d to ,

A iy e r, D a n n i c a s , L o n d l o , e v e r y s in g l e o n e t h a t A b r a h a m s n o w p u r p o r ts
t o r e ly u p o n t h e J u d g e th e r e h e ld o v e r a n d a b o v e th e f a c t t h a t s o m e o f
t h o s e s ta t e m e n ts w e r e n ’ t e v e n s i g n e d b u t e v e n if t h e y w e r e , d o e s n o t
li n k m e t o th e o ff e n c e s I a m b e i n g p r o s e c u te d f o r, y e t M r S e a n
A b r a h a m s u s e s t h e s a m e s ta t e m e n ts w i t h t h e a d d i t io n o f o n e , th e
s t a te m e n t o f t h e G r e e k c i tiz e n in t h e J i b a a p p lic a ti o n w a s n e v e r s ig n e d ,

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
a n d e v e n i f i t w a s s i g n e d J u d g e G o r v a n s a id i t d o e s n o t i m p l ic a t e m e i n
t h e c o m m i s s io n o f a n o ff e n c e .
A d v o c a t e A b r a h a m s w h e n I a p p l ie d to h a v e h i s a u th o r is a ti o n t o
p r o s e c u t e m e r e v i e w e d a n d s e t a s id e i n h is a n s w e r i n g a ff id a v i t h e
s t a te s t h a t h e h a d s e n t A d v o c a t e M a h e m a a n d A d v o c a t e D a w o o d A d a ms
t o G r e e c e a n d t h e y h a d n o w t a k e n a s i g n e d s ta t e m e n t o f D a n n i c a s , a n d
h e s a y s t h e s t a te m e n t is n o w s i g n e d , I w a s s a t is fi e d a n d t h e n h e
a u t h o r i s e d m y p r o s e c u ti o n .
C h a ir t h e p r o b l e m w i t h th a t is w h e n I h e a r d , w h e n I s a w t h a t I
10

s a i d to m y a t t o r n e y p le a s e p h o n e A d v o c a t e M a h e m a a n d a s k h i m f o r a
copy of the signed statement.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s b e c a u s e o b v i o u s l y i t w a s r e le v a n t .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

Ye s C h a ir. W h i c h M r

v a n d e r M e r w e d u ly d i d a n d I w a s p r e s e n t w h e n h e p h o n e d h i m a n d
A d v o c a t e M a h e m a ’s r e s p o n s e w a s t h e s t a te m e n t i s s ti ll i n G r e e k it ’s
n o t b e e n tr a n s l a t e d y e t.
C H A I R P E R S O N : It ’s s t il l i n G r e e k ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

S t i ll i n G r e e k C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , i t h a s n ’ t b e e n tr a n s l a te d ?
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

It

hasn’t

been

tr a n s l a te d y e t . C h a ir a s I s i t h e r e to d a y i n s p i t e o f a n u m b e r o f le t t e r s
t o A d v o c a t e M a h e m a I s ti ll d o n o t h a v e a c o p y o f a s ig n e d s t a te m e n t , I
u n d e r s t a n d t h a t it e v e n tu a l ly w a s tr a n s l a t e d b u t t h a t’s p r o b a b ly a l m o s t
a y e a r a f te r A d v o c a te A b r a h a ms r e - a u t h o r i s e d m y p r o s e c u ti o n w h ic h
b e g g e d th e q u e s t io n h o w c o u ld h e h a v e c o n s i d e r e d a s t a t e m e n t w h ic h

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
is i n G r e e k , u n l e s s h e is c o n v e r s a n t i n G r e e k w h ic h I d o n ’ t t h in k h e is . .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Is h e n o t c o n v e r s a n t i n G r e e k ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir m o s t o f t h is

w h a t th e y d o t o m e is G r e e k , b u t I d o n ’t t h i n k h e is c o n v e r s a n t i n
Greek.
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Having said that General Booysen if

I c a n a s k y o u to g o t o p a g e 1 8 2 p a r a g r a p h 3 9 o f t h e s a m e b u n d l e .
CHAIRPERSON : What page?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:
10

I t’s p a g e 1 8 2 , p a r a g r a p h 3 9 .

CHAIRPERSON : 182?
ADV VERUSCHKA SEPTEMBER:

Ye s C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : W e ll G e n e r a l B o o y s e n I w a s s a y in g a s k i n g w h e t h e r h e
is n o t c o n v e r s a n t i n G r e e k b e c a u s e y o u k n o w t h e r e a r e p e o p le i n t h e
c o u n tr y w h o a r e c o n v e r s a n t in m a n y l a n g u a g e s s o u n ti l o n e k n o w s
w h e t h e r h e is c o n v e r s a n t i n G r e e k . . .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

C h a ir I h a v e a c t u a l ly

c h a l le n g e d h i m i n m y a n s w e r i n g , i n m y r e p ly i n g a ff id a v i t t o w h ic h I h a v e
n o t r e c e i v e d a r e s p o n s e y e t.
CHAIRPERSON :
20

Ye s , t h a t w a s – is t h a t i n a m a t t e r t h a t h a s b e e n

fi n a l is e d ?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

N o C h a ir t h a t m a t t e r

is p e n d i n g .
CHAIRPERSON : Oh.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:
a p p lic a ti o n . . .( in t e r v e n ti o n )

Page 252 of 258

That

review

02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN:

T h a t ’s p e n d i n g C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y, o k a y. S o h e w o u l d h a v e t o d e a l w i t h th a t
in h is a n s w e r i n g a ffi d a v i t o r in h i s a ff id a v i t ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : H e w o u ld h a v e t o d e a l
w i t h t h a t C h a ir b e c a u s e I a c tu a l ly a c c u s e h i m a ls o o f l y i n g u n d e r o a t h ,
a n d I h a v e in v i t e d h i m t o f il e a f o u r t h s e t o f p a p e r s , t o d is p u t e w h a t I
a m s a y i n g t h a t h e is n o t c o n v e r s a n t in G r e e k .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , a n d d o y o u r e m e m b e r w h e n t h e t i m e w ill e x p ir e
10

b y w h e n h e s h o u l d f il e h is a ffi d a v i t , o r is i t s ti ll c o m i n g o r is it g o n e ,
y o u d o n ’ t h a v e t o b e e x a c t, I ’ m j u s t e s ti m a ti n g .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :

C h a ir I fi l e d m y

f o u n d i n g a ff id a v i t i n 2 0 1 6 i m m e d ia t e l y a ft e r I w a s r e - a r r e s te d a n d
prosecuted.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

T h e s e p r o c e e d in g s

h a v e b e e n o c c a s i o n e d b y d e la y a f te r d e la y o c c a s io n e d b y t h e N a t i o n a l
P r o s e c u t in g A u t h o r it y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :

Fi r s t t h e y fi le d th e

r e c o r d , b e c a u s e w e a s k e d f o r t h e r u l e 5 3 r e c o r d , w h ic h t h e y f il e d . A
w e e k la t e r t h e y a d d e d m a te r i a l .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : To t h e r e c o r d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL B OOYSEN :

Then about two

m o n th s l a te r b y t h e n I h a d f il e d a s u p p l e m e n t a r y a ffi d a v it .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL B OOYSEN :

A f t e r I f il e d m y

s u p p l e m e n t a r y a ffi d a v it t h e y fil e d m o r e s o - c a l l e d e v id e n c e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : M o r e m a te r i a l .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

More materials.

To

t h e e x te n t t h a t I t h i n k i t w a s i n 2 0 1 7 o r – j a 2 0 1 7 C h a ir w h e r e t h e y
u n d e r t o o k th a t b e c a u s e A d v o c a te J i b a a l s o h a d t o f il e a n a ffi d a v it , t h e y
10

t h e n u n d e r t o o k I t h i n k t h a t w a s r o u n d a b o u t A u g u s t t h a t s h e w o u l d f il e
by August.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

When August came

t h e y d u m p e d a w h o l e lo t o f n e w m a t e r i a l w h ic h s h e s a i d s h e h a d
forgotten about.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

W h i c h s h e h a d a ls o

c o n s i d e r e d f iv e y e a r s p r i o r t o t h a t .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

By n o w th a t w a s th e

t h ir d ti m e t h a t t h e y h a d a d d e d m a te r i a l t o t h e r e c o r d .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : And we did not agree
w i t h th a t b e c a u s e th a t i s n o t w h a t th e R u le 5 3 r e q u i r e s o f t h e
prosecutors. And then we suggested to them that they should apply for

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
condonation. They refused.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

W e th e n t o l d t h e m

w e ll y o u w il l h a v e to . A n d e v e n t u a lly t h e y c o n c e d e d t h a t th e y w il l h a v e
t o a p p ly f o r c o n d o n a ti o n .

I t h i n k t h a t w a s a r o u n d a b o u t O c t o b e r,

N o v e m b e r. B u t i n s p i t e o f a g r e e i n g …
C H A I R P E R S O N : O c to b e r, N o v e m b e r 2 0 1 8 o r 1 7 ?
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : 1 7 C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : B u t i n s p it e o f t h a t –
o f t h e m a g r e e in g t o f il e – to a p p l y f o r c o n d o n a t i o n a n d I t h in k it w a s
N o v e m b e r t h e y o n ly fi le d i t i n F e b r u a r y t h e fo ll o w i n g y e a r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : E v e n tu a lly C h a ir w e –
w e a p p l ie d t o h a v e th e – t h e m a t te r s tr u c k o ff th e r o le b e c a u s e w e h a v e
a p p e a r e d 2 0 ti m e s w h ic h 1 8 ti m e s I t h i n k w e w e r e i n t h e h ig h c o u r t.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN : And the case has not
commenced yet.

20

CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d i t is n o w a f te r a
period of almost seven years.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOO YSEN :

The matter was not

s tr u c k o ff t h e r o le . Th e j u d g e t h e n J u d g e L o b e s a i d w h a t h e is g o i n g to

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
d o h e is g o i n g t o t a k e c h a r g e o f t h e s e p r o c e s s e s a n d h e g a v e c e r ta in
ti m e li n e s .
CHAIRPERSON : Ja, yes.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A ll o f u s h a v e a d h e r e d
to those timelines.
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : S o t h e N PA a n d s o d i d
w e e x c e p t o n o n e o r t w o o c c a s io n s w h e r e w e w o u l d e n g a g e w i t h e a c h
o th e r b e c a u s e th e p a p e r s w e r e q u i t e c o m p r e h e n s iv e .
10

CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : W it h th e a p p o i n t m e n t
o f t h e n e w N D P P C h a ir th e w h o le r e v i e w a p p l ic a ti o n o r t h e f ili n g o f
p a p e r s a r e b e i n g k e p t i n a b e y a n c e b y a g r e e m e n t b e tw e e n t h e t w o
p a r t i e s a n d th e J u d g e Pr e s id e n t h a s b e e n i n fo r m e d o f t h a t.
CHAIRPERSON :

O k a y.

O k a y.

O k a y s o o n e is n o t s u r e w h a t w il l

h a p p e n w i t h – w i t h th e m a t te r in t h e li g h t o f th e n e w N D P P b u t s il l
pending?
MAJOR

GENERAL JOHAN

WESSEL B OOYSEN :

Now

C h a ir

so

o b v i o u s l y t h e r e is a n e w b u s d r iv e r f o r la c k o f a b e t t e r p h r a s e .
20

CHAIRPERSON : Ja.
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : Th e r e s p o n d e n t i n t h is
m a t t e r is t h e N D P P i t i s n o t t h e p e r s o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : N D P P. Ye s .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :

S o i n th e c u r r e n t

N D P P w i ll h a v e t o d e c i d e w h e t h e r s h e w a n t s to p r o c e e d w i t h t h e

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02 MAY 2019 – DAY 87
m a t t e r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M A J O R G E N E R A L J O H A N W E S S E L B O O Y S E N : A n d w h ic h e v e n t i f s h e
w a n ts t o p r o c e e d w it h th e m a t t e r.
CHAIRPERSON: Ja.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN

WESSEL BOOYSEN :

Th e n A d v o c a te

A b r a h a m s , M y e m a a n d J i b a w il l h a v e t o fi l e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : F il e a [ in d is ti n c t ] .
MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BOOYSEN :
10

F i le a f o u r th s e t o f

p a p e r s if t h e y ta k e u p m y i n v i ta t io n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . O k a y t h a n k y o u .
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

I d o n o t – s o r r y I d o n o te t h e

ti m e b u t t h e r e is j u s t o n e p a r tic u l a r p o i n t w it h y o u r l e a v e ?
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R :

B e c a u s e n o t w i t h s ta n d i n g t h e

f a c t t h a t i t is G e n e r a l B o o y s e n ’s s ta t e m e n t t h a t h e h a s – t h a t t h e r e h a s
b e e n a r e a u t h o r i s a t io n .
CHAIRPERSON : H’m.
A D V O C AT E V E R U S H K A S E P T E M B E R : F o r t h e c h a r g e s u n d e r t h e h e l m
20

o f A d v o c a t e S h a u n A b r a h a ms . I t is i m p o r t a n t t o p l a c e o n r e c o r d t h a t a t
p a g e 1 8 2 o f th is b u n d l e a t p a r a g r a p h 9 i t i s G o r v e n J ’s fi n d i n g o r
remark rather and I shall read:
“ I t is i m p o r t a n t t o n o t e th a t t h e a b o v e f in d i n g s d o n o t a m o u n t t o a
fi n d i n g t h a t M r B o o y s e n is n o t g u il t y o f th e o ff e n c e s s e t o u t i n c o u n ts 1
a n d 2 a n d 8 t o 1 2 . Th a t c a n o n l y b e d e c i d e d b y w a y o f a c r i m i n a l tr i a l .

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S e t ti n g a s i d e t h e a u t h o r is a ti o n s a n d d e c i s io n s t o p r o s e c u t e a l s o d o e s
n o t m e a n t h a t f r e s h a u th o r is a ti o n s c a n n o t b e i s s u e d o r fr e s h d e c i s i o n s
t a k e n t o p r o s e c u t e i f t h e r e is a r a t i o n a l b a s is o f t h e s e d e c is i o n s .”
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a . O k a y. O k a y i t i s f iv e o ’c lo c k s o w e w il l a d jo u r n .
I t h in k M r P a u l Pr e t o r i u s h a d r e q u e s t e d t h a t I c o n s i d e r th a t w e s t a r t a t
h a l f p a s t n i n e to m o r r o w m o r n in g a n d I t h i n k I m a y h a v e a g r e e d . B u t I
w a n t t o c h a n g e t h a t b a c k t o n o r m a l t i m e a t t e n o ’c l o c k . I f y o u c a n l iv e
with that Mr Pretorius?
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C :
10

C e r t a in ly C h a ir.

I t is y o u r

p r e r o g a tiv e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : My – w e ll i t is m o r e b e c a u s e I a m n o t f e e l in g t o o w e l l
t o d a y. S o I m i g h t n e e d a li t tl e b i t o f m o r e t i m e in th e m o r n i n g b e f o r e I
come here.
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : U n d e r s t o o d .
C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t is t h e o n ly r e a s o n o t h e r w is e I w o u l d n o t h e s it a t e
t h a t w e s t a r t e a r li e r i f i t s u i te d e v e r y b o d y i n c l u d in g M a j o r G e n e r a l
B o o y s e n . S o i f i t is f in e l e t u s s ta r t a t t e n .
A D V PA U L J O S E P H P R E TO R I U S S C : Th a n k y o u C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Is th a t f i n e w i t h y o u ?

20

MAJOR GENERAL JOHAN WESSEL BO OYSEN :

T h a t is f i n e b y m e

C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y t h a n k y o u . W e w il l a d j o u r n th e p r o c e e d i n g s fo r
t h e d a y t h e n u n ti l t o m o r r o w m o r n i n g a t te n . W e a d j o u r n .
REGISTRAR: All rise.
I N Q U I RY A D J O U R N S TO 3 M AY 2 0 1 9

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